I am interested in the BERTRAM family from Cranshaws, Berwickshire. William BERTRAM was born ca.1720 and died 4Nov. 1782 . He married Martha SCOTT b.? died 10Nov. 1771. I only know of two daughters:- Mary BERTRAM b.13May, 1751 and her sister Ann b.1760. Both were from Cranshaws. Both girls married and lived in Anstruther Easter, Fife. Mary married James RODGER in 1779. She died 1818 and is buried in Anstruther Easter. Ann married George ROBB in 1784 in Anstruther Easter. I would be interested if anyone was researching this family. Lilias Goddard in Sydney. klgoddard@primus.com.au

Landen Schooler wrote: > > Well my Murray predates yours, so we'll see if it will fit > in the puzzle..... > > Descendants of Mary Murray > > Generation No. 1 > > 1. MARY MURRAY was born 10 September 1758 in Bluebrase, > Scotland, and died 26 June 1817 in Hutton, Berwickshire, > Scotland. She married BENJAMINE SCOULER 1785 in Hutton, > Berwickshire, Scotland, son of WILLIAM SKOULLER and AGNES > FOORD. He was born 11 June 1749 in Paxton, Berwickshire, > Scotland, and died 31 January 1831 in Hutton, Berwickshire, > Scotland. > > > Children of MARY MURRAY and BENJAMINE SCOULER are: > i. WILLIAM SCHOOLER, b. 14 October 1786. > ii. MARY ISABELLA SCHOOLER, b. 31 December 1788, Hutton, > Berwickshire, Scotland; d. 15 September 1849; m. WILLIAM > RENTON, JR, 23 February 1810, Hutton, Berwickshire, > Scotland; b. 05 June 1786; d. Aft. 1849. > > More About WILLIAM RENTON, JR: > Baptism: 05 June 1786 > Occupation: Fisherman > > iii. JOHN SCHOOLER, b. 22 December 1789, Hutton, > Berwickshire, Scotland; d. 18 December 1882, Hutton, > Berwickshire, Scotland; m. ISABELLA KNOX; b. 25 October > 1792, Dunse, Scotland; d. 27 July 1849, Hutton, > Berwickshire, Scotland. > > More About JOHN SCHOOLER: > Fact 1: Presbyterian > Fact 2: was a Feuar in Paxton > > More About ISABELLA KNOX: > Fact 1: Presbyterian > > iv. BENJAMINE SCHOOLER, b. 25 January 1792. > v. THOMAS SCHOOLER, b. 22 December 1795. > vi. JAMES SCHOOLER, b. 05 August 1797; d. 13 May 1819. > vii. GEORGE SCOULER, b. 14 May 1800; d. 12 November 1878, > Hutton, Berwickshire, Scotland; m. MARGARET NISBET, 10 > February 1826; b. 27 June 1792, Paxton, Berwickshire, > Scotland; d. 09 November 1857. > > And if anyone else spots something, let me know.. > > Landen Schooler > Palmyra, Iowa > > Jack and Debbie Murray wrote: > > > > Hi Judy, > > > > I've lost a John MURRAY who was born 8 Jun 1827 in Lanark, Lanarkshire, > > Scotland. (His parents were born in Tweedsmuir, Peeblesshire, Scotland) John > > came with his parents to Hay Township, Huron County, Ontario in 1834. In > > 1848, he left home and then disappeared without a trace, after visiting > > London, Ontario. The family has always assumed he went after his fortune in > > California, but obviously he could have gone anywhere. > > > > This John MURRAY's first son was probably named James. His second daughter > > would probably have been named Margaret. > > > > I have much information on his ancestors and the descendants of his > > siblings. > > > > Anybody out there hit a brick wall with their John MURRAY who was born in > > 1827 in Scotland? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jack Murray from Michigan > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Judy Hopkins <judy_h@iprimus.com.au> > > To: <BORDER-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 2:08 AM > > Subject: Murray > > > > > Hello, > > > I'm not sure if I've posted this before, but as Durham was mentioned > > > recently I thought I'd give it a go. Is there anyone out there who is > > > missing a John Murray, born c.1830-35, supposedly in Sunderland, Durham? > > > I've been looking for him for 20 years and I've found that most of the > > > Murrays in Sunderland were Scottish, with some Irish. He was a carpenter > > > who came to Australia c.1852, according to family story, but as he didn't > > > marry my great grandmother there are no parents' names on a marriage > > > certificate, and when he died no-one knew who his parents were. > > > I desperately need someone who has lost a John who came to Australia. > > > Thanks all, > > > Judy

Hi Rie, The 'Borders' in this case is the area of the Border between England and Scotland. This list is mainly concerned with the old counties of Berwickshire, Roxburghshire, Selkirkshire, Peebleshire, and Dumfriesshire in Scotland, and covers the Northern parts of Northumberland and Cumberland in England as there were a fair number of cross-Border marriages. Middlemas and variants is a reasonably common name in the area. Passenger lists tend to exist along with immigration lists on your side of the Atlantic. There is a mailing list for passenger lists, but I have not got it off hand, search the Rootsweb mailing lists for it. Immigration lists tend to be at port of destination, no government cared who left, only who arrived. Best regards - Mike Simpson, Penrith, NSW, Australia Email: agene@tpg.com.au HomePage: http://www.bigfoot.com/~agene

Hi List There is a new CD available from the LDS called Immigration Index it costs $8 Aust. it comes with a viewer No 3 which can let you access all sorts of things with the 1881 census, please read the mail below from another list. Max Good news. I ordered the LDS Immigration Index (which I didn't really have need for) but along with it came version 3 of FolioViews.. The whole lot was only £5.95 and was a bargain in any case. I was over the moon when I discovered that when using the new viewer on the 1881 census that I can search for virtually anything. Examples: Street Names, Occupations, Public Houses, Deaf & dumb, Prisons and institutions etc For instance, suppose I wanted to know all the beer sellers in Manchester in 1881 - no problem now with version 3 viewer. By the way to use it, carry out the following simple instructions: 1) When the search screen appears cancel it 2) Click on Search 3) Click on Neighbours - Advances Query 4) You can use Boolean Logic Searches One just needs to play about with it to discover what its capable of, but I think everyone will be pleased with the results. I don't know if the LDS are shipping the Version 3 viewer with the current 1881 census? Oh, by the way, you can order the Mormon Immigration Index (which contains the new viewer from Garrets Green in Birmingham. Or if you live in other Countries than the UK, then from your usual Mormon Stockist. Best wishes, Martin

Hello List Members, When we were at Salt Lake City recently, we copied a number of christening records for this parish. Now, as I begin to sort them out, I see dates which should overlap but don't. In other words, I have a page which lists christenings from 22 October 1769 to 30 June 1771 and a page which has christenings from 23 April 1771 to 15 January, 1773 and the two don't have the same christenings for the overlapping dates! It appears that there was not just one register for the parish. I am wondering if there are a number of sources for christenings for Ettrick. Were records kept by various ministers in their own journals or diaries and, if so, was there a central collection agency eg the Presbyterian Church who eventually sorted them chronologically? Any help or suggestions where I might obtain same will be most appreciated. Regards, Joan, On. Canada

Hello Listers, Is there anyone who is researching the following names, once again I seem to have hit another brick wall? George GARDINER b abt 1752 Greenlaw d 1833 m Elizabeth/Betty/THOMSON/THOMPSON on 22 May 1780 Gordon George was a Shepherd known Issue George b 1781, Janet 1782, Alison 1790, Isabel 1792, Agnes 1794 and James 1797. Thomas RAE/REA b abt 1768 m Elspeth BROWN at Smailholm 12 Dec 1788 known Issue Thomas b 1788, William b 1792 and Robert b 1808 m Isabel Renwick. Any help much appreciated, Ann Cape Town

Researching the family of Sir Alfred EWING, born Dundee 27 Mar 1855 to James EWING and Marjory FERGUSON, Prof of Mechanical Engineering at Dundee and Edinburgh, director of Naval Education 1903 and ran Room 40, the RN cryptographers 1914-1918. He says in his autobiography that he came from a solid farming background but not where. His parents had married in Dundee 5 Jan 1847 but they gave their daughter, Catherine, ROXBURGH as a third name. This must mean something but ??? Still researching BURN, YOUNGER and SCOTT from the Borders. Our Thomas SCOTT married Jane EWING in Glasgow c1820; a coincidence??? It is worth a try. Thanks. John Edmonds

Being "new" to this.....can someone answer these questions: 1) What geographical area is the "Borders" and what "counties" are included. 2) Is the Middlemas name a common name for the Borders region? 3) How would I go about finding a passenger list for people leaving the Borders region c. 1815 going to Nova Scotia? Any help is great. Thanking anyone in advance Rie

Walter Grieve (1770-1851) was a tenant of "Craiglands", Kirkpatrick, Juxta, Dumfries which was said to be a handsome palladian mansion believed to be by William Burns, two and a half miles from Moffat in Dumfriesshire. Hartwoodmyers and Broadlee, Selkirshire were places of his sons' christenings. His father-in-law, John Veitch (c1749 - ?) was a miller at Dewchar Mills, Yarrow. Margaret Sullivan and Anne Hupert kindly advised that neither are mentioned on the above MIs. Just wondered if anyone has any further ideas? Of course, I realise that there may be no headstone to these people - just hoping to "finish them off". tia Gail Dodd, Western Australia http://carmen.murdoch.edu.au/community/dps/research/dod01.html

Although I trace a separate surname, it too appears in Durham but also in north Ireland pre 1800. They were Scot-Irish. meaning they went from Scotland to Ireland and some went back and settled in England and Scotland. My point being that in tracing this family I found a marriage to a Murray. Could your family be from Ireland? Rose C

Greetings Gail from a fellow Grieve descendant. The Veitch listed at Yarrow is HELEN VEITCH who died 1 Sept 1766 aged 66, spouse of JOHN STODDART of Williamhope. There is a MARGARET GRIEVE wife of DAVID BRYDON. She was 65 when she died at Lewinshope 18 Dec 1874. Also ELIZABETH GRIEVE, wife of John Aitken, who died 25 March 1878 aged 58 at Oversby Cottage, Yarrow Feus. Couldn't see any others. Veitch seems to be particularly scarce in the MIs that I have. I wonder if your missing Janet and Walter are in the latest Borders FHS volume of Ancrum & Longnewton MIs. Margaret Sullivan, Brisbane.

Good Evening Group Further to my message regarding MI's at Yarrow, I have had a kind response in the negative and a suggestion that perhaps my family may be in the latest Borders FHS volume of Ancrum & Longnewton MIs. If anyone on the group has access to the MIs, I wondered if - John Veitch Of Dewchar Mill, Yarrow who maried 1 Jun 1777 at Ancrum, Roxburgh might be mentioned. Or his wife, Betty (nee Redford), bp 31 Dec 1749 at: Associate Congregation Or Free Church, Jedburgh, Roxburgh or their daughter, Jannet Campbell Grieve (nee Veitch) 4 Dec 1778 at: Lilliesleaf, Roxburgh. Janet died before 1859. She married 30 Jan 1796 at Yarrow, Walter Grieve and neither Janet or Walter's dates of death or places of burial are known. Thanks to Margaret Sullivan for the Yarrow response in the negative. Gail Dodd in Western Australia

Dear Rose, Thanks for taking an interest. Yes, they could be from Ireland. Sunderland, and indeed many of the industrial northern towns of England, seem to have been a melting pot for people from all over - Scots from the clearances, Irish from the famines, mariners etc. Judy -----Original Message----- From: DCran41266@aol.com [mailto:DCran41266@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, 14 October 2000 4:04 PM To: BORDER-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: BORDER-D Digest V00 #293 Although I trace a separate surname, it too appears in Durham but also in north Ireland pre 1800. They were Scot-Irish. meaning they went from Scotland to Ireland and some went back and settled in England and Scotland. My point being that in tracing this family I found a marriage to a Murray. Could your family be from Ireland? Rose C ______________________________

Good morning group Noticed on Viv Dunstan's Genuki page http://www.vivdunstan.clara.net/genuki/SEL/Yarrow/gravelistY.html that a list of people buried at Yarrow, includes the names Veitch and Grieve. Obtaining acess to Hawick Archaeological Society's transactions in Australia has not been possible, but I'm really keen to find out if our ancestors are the Veitch and Grieve mentioned. If anyone on the group has access to the MIs, I wondered if - John Veitch Of Dewchar Mill, Yarrow who maried 1 Jun 1777 at Ancrum, Roxburgh might be mentioned. Or his wife, Betty (nee Redford), bp 31 Dec 1749 at: Associate Congregation Or Free Church, Jedburgh, Roxburgh or their daughter, Jannet Campbell Grieve (nee Veitch) 4 Dec 1778 at: Lilliesleaf, Roxburgh. Janet died before 1859. She married 30 Jan 1796 at Yarrow, Walter Grieve and neither Janet or Walter's dates of death or places of burial are known. This would solve a long term mystery, and any advice would be very much appreciated. Best wishes, Gail Dodd in Perth, Western Australia

Hi Judy, I've lost a John MURRAY who was born 8 Jun 1827 in Lanark, Lanarkshire, Scotland. (His parents were born in Tweedsmuir, Peeblesshire, Scotland) John came with his parents to Hay Township, Huron County, Ontario in 1834. In 1848, he left home and then disappeared without a trace, after visiting London, Ontario. The family has always assumed he went after his fortune in California, but obviously he could have gone anywhere. This John MURRAY's first son was probably named James. His second daughter would probably have been named Margaret. I have much information on his ancestors and the descendants of his siblings. Anybody out there hit a brick wall with their John MURRAY who was born in 1827 in Scotland? Thanks, Jack Murray from Michigan ----- Original Message ----- From: Judy Hopkins <judy_h@iprimus.com.au> To: <BORDER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 2:08 AM Subject: Murray > Hello, > I'm not sure if I've posted this before, but as Durham was mentioned > recently I thought I'd give it a go. Is there anyone out there who is > missing a John Murray, born c.1830-35, supposedly in Sunderland, Durham? > I've been looking for him for 20 years and I've found that most of the > Murrays in Sunderland were Scottish, with some Irish. He was a carpenter > who came to Australia c.1852, according to family story, but as he didn't > marry my great grandmother there are no parents' names on a marriage > certificate, and when he died no-one knew who his parents were. > I desperately need someone who has lost a John who came to Australia. > Thanks all, > Judy > > > > ==== BORDER Mailing List ==== > The Border Names Newsletter contact boglelodge@yahoo.com for details. > >

Dear Jack, I was very interested in what you wrote. There's over 20 years missing for my John. Supposed to have arrived c.1852, he didn't surface until 1873 when an illegitimate son James was born, and then my great grandfather William. There was no Margaret. The first two daughters were Agnes and Elizabeth, and then later a lot of fancy names - Lillian, Elsie, Hilda. I searched for the possibility of a prior marriage in Victoria, Australia, in those 20 years, as my great grandmother was Catholic, and he never married her, and I always wondered if it was because he was still legally married. No luck. I found a Robert on the shipping lists into Victoria who said he was born in Sunderland, but can't make him fit as a brother for my John. It didn't occur to me that he could have gone to America first. Thanks and best wishes, Judy -----Original Message----- From: Jack and Debbie Murray [mailto:themurrays@dmci.net] Sent: Friday, 13 October 2000 6:08 PM To: BORDER-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: MURRAY, John Hi Judy, I've lost a John MURRAY who was born 8 Jun 1827 in Lanark, Lanarkshire, Scotland. (His parents were born in Tweedsmuir, Peeblesshire, Scotland) John came with his parents to Hay Township, Huron County, Ontario in 1834. In 1848, he left home and then disappeared without a trace, after visiting London, Ontario. The family has always assumed he went after his fortune in California, but obviously he could have gone anywhere. This John MURRAY's first son was probably named James. His second daughter would probably have been named Margaret. I have much information on his ancestors and the descendants of his siblings. Anybody out there hit a brick wall with their John MURRAY who was born in 1827 in Scotland? Thanks, Jack Murray from Michigan

Looking for information on the following line . Thanks in advance. Chris Bain JOHN PURVES, b. 1849 Berwickshire, m. 31 Dec 1874 Swinton and Simpron, Berwickshire JANET RENTON b. bef. 15 Sep 1858 Ledgerwood, Berwickshire, dau of Willaim and Janet (Bain) Renton. Children of JOHN PURVES and JANET RENTON are: i. HENRY PURVES, b. 1876, Swinton, Berwick, SCT. ii. JOHN PURVES, b. 1878, Swinton, Berwick, SCT. iii. ISABELLA PURVES, b. 1880, Swinton, Berwick, SCT.

Wayne Ettrick M.I. have a stone with " In Memory of JAMES BRYDON, shepherd, who died at Eldinhope 14 Feby 1851 aged 73 years. Also REBECCA LAING his spouse who died at Shepherdcleugh Jan 1809 aged 33 years" Perhaps he married twice. No other James Brydon of the right age at Ettrick or Yarrow. Several Biggars, but no Janet. Margaret

Hello, I'm not sure if I've posted this before, but as Durham was mentioned recently I thought I'd give it a go. Is there anyone out there who is missing a John Murray, born c.1830-35, supposedly in Sunderland, Durham? I've been looking for him for 20 years and I've found that most of the Murrays in Sunderland were Scottish, with some Irish. He was a carpenter who came to Australia c.1852, according to family story, but as he didn't marry my great grandmother there are no parents' names on a marriage certificate, and when he died no-one knew who his parents were. I desperately need someone who has lost a John who came to Australia. Thanks all, Judy

Dear Ray, The Borders Archive at St Mary's Mill in Selkirk has email - not free, but I was grateful to be able to use it to catch up with my kids. We found that in general, public libraries offer free email. Have a great trip. Judy -----Original Message----- From: Ray LaFever [mailto:rlafever@juno.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 October 2000 2:01 AM To: BORDER-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Coming to Hawick Hello all. I'm going to be visiting Hawick from October 22 to about October 25. I'll be staying at the Ellistrin B&B. I'm researching Miller, Glendenning, Graham and Coulter (Coltherd), all families that emigrated to Delaware County, NY. If you can track me down and want to meet for a cup of coffee, let me know (I'm hoping to spend one day cycling the area). I'll be unsubscribing from the listserv from October 18 through November 5, in case you respond to me during those dates. I'm not sure I'll have e-mail availability during my trip, though I'm going to try. This will be my fourth visit to Hawick and the borders. I'm looking forward to it. Ray LaFever 99 South Lake Road, Apt 6 Albany, NY 12208 rlafever@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ______________________________