George Stephenson, the railway engineer's forebears, from Oxnam, have been written up as Steevenson, Stivenson, Stevason, Steenson and Stinson. Stinson was adopted by some border families who emigrated to North Carolina. Rosemary Richardson Date sent: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 10:12:28 +0200 From: "Lesley Robertson" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BORDER] New member > >From: "Nancy McL" <[email protected]> > > > >Re: [BORDER] New memberMaybe we are attaching too much importance to the > >way the surname was spelled in 17th century Scotland? > > This is very true. Essentially, if a name will SOUND the same while > spelled in a given way, it will be written that way at some point. > Remember also that one of the most mobile groups of people at that time > was clergymen, so you might have a parishioner giving their name with one > accent and someone accustomed to a different region writing it down. I > actually have a (18th century) baptismal record where the Minister used 3 > spellings in a single entry (for the child, the father and the fact that > the child was named for a grandparent)! Once you get back beyond the 20th > century, you need to switch your brain to "fuzzy spelling" mode - and > remember that Soundex (based on american accents) don't always pick these > things up. If you can't find someone, try any reasonable (and halfway > unreasonable) variation. Someone else recently pointed me to a wedding I > couldn't find - the groom had been listed as Robson and Robertson.. The > soundex didn't pick it up, and neither did the Scotland's People search > engine. Lesley Robertson > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > ______________________________ --------------------- London, UK [email protected]

I am interested in any information on the DUMMA family that lived at the Oxnam Row Farm (near Jedburgh) in the early 1900's. The left for Canada in 1920 via Liverpool. I have the family back to about 1790. 1st Generation - James DUMMA married Helen HAY in Kelso in 1818.(7 known children) 2nd Generation - John DUMMA married Ann WAUGH about 1856. (9 known children) 3rd Generation - John DUMMA married Elizabeth JAMESON about 1899. This is the family that came to Canada in 1920. (8 known children) If anyone has any information on this family, I have plenty to share. Shirley

Hi, A quick check of the index to the printed Merose Regality Records, (published by the Scottish History Society, 1917), shows that there are many entries for the surname up to 1676. The editor, Charles S. Romanes, has included the various spellings, simply as variations of the more usual ELLIS. It is difficult to know whether the surname survived in Melrose parish, Roxburghshire, under the EILLES spelling, but from the more recent Parish register entries, it would seem not. Maybe some did move south to Durham? But I notice a Thomas EILLES marrying in Durham as early as 1573. If one searches on IGI for EILLES in Britain, using EXACT spelling, there is a surprising geographical range - London, Berwickshire, Durham, Buckinghamshire, Hampshire, Roxburghshire....to name but a few. Quite a task ahead of you! And if you include all the variations.............!! Nancy McLaughlin Christchurch, NZ

>From: "Nancy McL" <[email protected]> > >Re: [BORDER] New memberMaybe we are attaching too much importance to the >way the surname was spelled in 17th century Scotland? This is very true. Essentially, if a name will SOUND the same while spelled in a given way, it will be written that way at some point. Remember also that one of the most mobile groups of people at that time was clergymen, so you might have a parishioner giving their name with one accent and someone accustomed to a different region writing it down. I actually have a (18th century) baptismal record where the Minister used 3 spellings in a single entry (for the child, the father and the fact that the child was named for a grandparent)! Once you get back beyond the 20th century, you need to switch your brain to "fuzzy spelling" mode - and remember that Soundex (based on american accents) don't always pick these things up. If you can't find someone, try any reasonable (and halfway unreasonable) variation. Someone else recently pointed me to a wedding I couldn't find - the groom had been listed as Robson and Robertson.. The soundex didn't pick it up, and neither did the Scotland's People search engine. Lesley Robertson _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

Re: [BORDER] New memberMaybe we are attaching too much importance to the way the surname was spelled in 17th century Scotland? So many variations exist. And down south in Hampshire I find that HELHOUSE and ELLIS are sometime interchangeable. I had a quick look at the IGI for Melrose parish, and I find the following variations for the same people (1600s)....... James ELLIS/EILICE/ELLES George ELIES/ELEIS Thomas ELLIS/EILICE Incidentally, I believe that James, the weaver of Melrose, was that James, baptised to George ELEIS in 1664 - and not the one baptised to James E in 1656/7. I must admit that I base this on the Scottish naming pattern, which many of the Melrose families appeared to follow quite strictly. Not sure about the Nichol ELEIS you mentioned previously - there was one born to Alexander in 1630, but this was in Edinburgh, and not Melrose. I have copies of the Melrose Regality Registers, and will check there for the name also, and report back - Best wishes - Nancy. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jaz Eilles To: Nancy McL ; [email protected] Cc: Rick Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 8:06 AM Subject: Re: [BORDER] New member Dear Nancy I forgot to mention that both Alan's family and Rick's family thought EILLES originated in Scotland, there being talk of an Eilles Street in Edinburgh. I have never been able to find mention of that Street anywhere. Thanks again Jaz

> Not sure about the Nichol ELEIS you mentioned previously - there was one born > to Alexander in 1630, but this was in Edinburgh, and not Melrose Not sure about the Nichol ELEIS you mentioned previously - there was one born to Alexander in 1630, but this was in Edinburgh, and not Melrose Hello Nancy This was the reference to Nichol EILLES from LDS Website: JAMES OR JOHN EILLES   Male     ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Event(s): Birth:  Christening:  11 SEP 1659   Melrose, Roxburgh, Scotland Death:  Burial:  ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Parents:   Father:  NICOLL EILLES Family ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Messages: Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Source Information: Batch No.:  Dates:  Source Call No.:  Type:  Printout Call No.:  Type:  C117992  1642 - 1723  1067948   Film  6901050   Film  Sheet:  ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Have been pondering this. I have looked at quite a lot of Jedburgh newspapers from about 1875 to the 1940s and I think I have seen an article on a popular minister leaving. You also get mention of former citizens who have emigrated and made good. These people sometimes made a gift to their birthplace. I think I can also recall a story about an elderly women leaving with her family. In short, I think there would have to be an 'angle' that made the event newsworthy. Judy ---------- >From: bonnie <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Subject: [BORDER] newspapers >Date: Tue, Feb 4, 2003, 5:33 am > > Would anyone know if the newspapers announced who was leaving for > Canada. It just struck me they might. In the small town it would have been > news. > BJ > > > > ==== BORDER Mailing List ==== > Volunteer to transcribe for Berwickshire 1841 census > [email protected] >

Unless Isobel USHER was James's second wife? Just a thought. Judy ---------- >From: Jaz Eilles <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [BORDER] New member >Date: Sat, Apr 26, 2003, 3:58 pm > > James ELLIES or ELLES, weaver of Melrose, Roxburghshire, married in 1690 >> Isobel USHER. They are my ancestors snip >> If Thomas E married Jennet in Legerwood in 1694, then I doubt that he would >> be a son of James the weaver of Melrose.

James ELLIES or ELLES, weaver of Melrose, Roxburghshire, married in 1690 Isobel USHER. They are my ancestors : I descend from their daughter Elizabeth (bap 1691) who married James SMAIL. Further children were Isobel, 1694, Margaret 1703, and George 1707. If Thomas E married Jennet in Legerwood in 1694, then I doubt that he would be a son of James the weaver of Melrose. It is quite some gap you have to bridge from James ELLIES in Melrose, and your ancestors in County Durham. Do you have good reason to believe that they originated in Melrose, I wonder? If not, then I'd suggest you just progress back from the known to the unknown, and forget the Melrose lot for the time being! Best wishes- Nancy McLaughlin Christchurch, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jaz Eilles" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2003 1:28 AM Subject: [BORDER] New member > Hello > We are looking for information on the family EILLES. > > We have information that James who was christened on 11 SEP 1659 Melrose, > Roxburgh, Scotland. His father was Nichol EILLES and James became a weaver > and his children Elizabeth, Christened 06 SEP 1691and Thomas who married > JENNET BLAEKY on 03 MAR 1694 in Legerwood, Berwick. > > The next link we have in Thomas EILLES marrying Sophia DIXON in Ryton, > Durham in 1821 whose union produced my husband¹s great grandfather James > EILLES. > > Any help in bridging the gap would be appreciated. > > Sincerely Jazille C. Eilles > > > > > ==== BORDER Mailing List ==== > *******************February Theme*********************** > Military family > >

I have found my gg-grandfather William HENRY in the 1841 Census listed as a servant in the household of Thomas TOD, Drygrange. Does anyone have any information about this household? In the birth record for his son William in 1837 he is listed as a butler residing at Broomhill; that of daughter, Susan in 1839 as a servant, Ravenswood and son John in 1843 as a servant at Drygrange residing at Friarshall. I would love to hear from anyone who can give information about these places and thus flesh out my family history. TIA, Sue, Australia

> Dear Nancy > > I forgot to mention that both Alan¹s family and Rick¹s family thought EILLES > originated in Scotland, there being talk of an Eilles Street in Edinburgh. I > have never been able to find mention of that Street anywhere. > > Thanks again Jaz

Dear Jaz and Nancy, We all know that working backwards from the known to the unknown is conventional wisdom when doing genealogical research and usually it's the best approach. But there are times when we need to try different approaches when we reach brick walls. I am also researching a name similar to EILLES in northern England that presents a serious challenge because it has undergone several spelling changes in the last 500+ years. ELLISSE had many variations in spellings in parish records. Have you found a variety of ways that EILLES was spelled? Have you discovered any records that used a spelling similar to Ellisse, Elisse, Ellise or Ellice? By the mid to late 1500s the spelling had changed to ELLYSON and ELLISON in Yorkshire records. Have you found this spelling as a variant of EILLES? The information that I have about the location of the ELLISSEs in the 1400s and early 1500s indicates that they lived in Hukersal, Yorkshire but I haven't found any name similar to Hukersal on any ancient maps or gazeteer info about Yorkshire. One member of the Yorkshire mailing list on Rootsweb suggested to me that it might be a very old spelling for the town of Hook which is across the river from Howden in East Yorkshire. Are you familiar with any names of towns or farms anywhere in northern England or the border counties called "Hukersal"? If either of you see any possible connections between your EILLES ancestors and my ELLISSE ancestors, I would be delighted to correspond with you and share more information, Nancy and Jaz. If anyone on the Borders mailing list is doing research on the ELLISSE, ELLYSON, ELLISON or ALLISON surnames, I hope you will contact me. My maiden name is Allison and I live in Decatur, Illinois in the USA. I would love to travel to Yorkshire and other areas of northern England and visit the countryside where my ancestors lived 500 years ago and do genealogical research there. That is my dream and I hope that I'll have the opportunity to make that journey in the next several years. I know that my trip will be most successful if I can correspond with other researchers who are also interested in the same ancient ancestors. Best wishes, Mary Allison Yonan Decatur, Illinois USA [email protected] ************* Here's my decendancy chart: date place of birth wife died of birth 1) Robert Ellisse abt 1400 Hukersal, Yorkshire ? ? 2) Edward Ellisse abt 1440 " " ? ? 3) Anthony Ellisse abt 1470 " " ? ? 4) John Ellisse abt 1500 " " ? ? 5) Thomas Ellisse 1529 Howden, " Jennett ? 6) Lawrencius Ellison Oct 28, 1570 " " Jane Clynt 7) Lawrence Ellison Jan 2, 1599/1600 " " Maryn Rishton Dec 1665/66 8) Thomas Ellison Jan 2, 1599/1600 Blackburn, Lanca. Martha Champion May 1697 9) John Ellison abt 1652 Hempstead, L.I., N.Y. Eleanor Dec 1721 10) John Allison abt 1680 " " " ? 1754 (note spelling) 11) John Allison abt 1719 " " " Amy Wood Nov 1782 12) Benjamin Allison Jan 6, 1766 Haverstraw, N.Y. Pheobe Davidson Oct 1836 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jaz Eilles" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2003 10:58 AM Subject: Re: [BORDER] New member > > Thank you for your reply Nancy > > > > I do suppose we are grasping at straws, we have reached a dead-end going back > > from Thomas EILLES of Ryton at this point. > > > > However, James, Thomas and Elizabeth are common names in the Durham EILLES > > branch. > > > > As you are aware EILLES is quite an unusual name and we have discovered in our > > researching that if an EILLES crops up somewhere, there is usually a > > connection. We found a stray EILLES in Virginia who turns out to be a son a > > of Thomas EILLES mentioned in my first posting. A Rick Ellis appeared in > > Tennessee who is also descended from Thomas EILLES. Matthew Eilles changed > > his name to Ellis on his immigration to the United States. I could go on.... > > > > Do you know if the name EILLES has any connecton to EILDON? Can you go > > further back than Nichol? > > > > Perhaps Thomas E who married JENNETY BLAEKY were brothers? > > > > Once again thank you for your reply. > > > > Best wishes Jaz > > Naperville, IL USA but brought up in Whitley Bay, Northumberland, married to > > Alan EILLES born and raised in Newcastle upon Tyne > > > > James ELLIES or ELLES, weaver of Melrose, Roxburghshire, married in 1690 > > Isobel USHER. They are my ancestors : I descend from their daughter > > Elizabeth (bap 1691) who married James SMAIL. Further children were Isobel, > > 1694, Margaret 1703, and George 1707. > > > > If Thomas E married Jennet in Legerwood in 1694, then I doubt that he would > > be a son of James the weaver of Melrose. It is quite some gap you have to > > bridge from James ELLIES in Melrose, and your ancestors in County Durham. > > Do you have good reason to believe that they originated in Melrose, I > > wonder? If not, then I'd suggest you just progress back from the known to > > the unknown, and forget the Melrose lot for the time being! > > > > Best wishes- > > Nancy McLaughlin > > Christchurch, NZ > > > > > > ==== BORDER Mailing List ==== > Volunteer to transcribe for Berwickshire 1841 census > [email protected] >

> Thank you for your reply Nancy > > I do suppose we are grasping at straws, we have reached a dead-end going back > from Thomas EILLES of Ryton at this point. > > However, James, Thomas and Elizabeth are common names in the Durham EILLES > branch. > > As you are aware EILLES is quite an unusual name and we have discovered in our > researching that if an EILLES crops up somewhere, there is usually a > connection. We found a stray EILLES in Virginia who turns out to be a son a > of Thomas EILLES mentioned in my first posting. A Rick Ellis appeared in > Tennessee who is also descended from Thomas EILLES. Matthew Eilles changed > his name to Ellis on his immigration to the United States. I could go on.... > > Do you know if the name EILLES has any connecton to EILDON? Can you go > further back than Nichol? > > Perhaps Thomas E who married JENNETY BLAEKY were brothers? > > Once again thank you for your reply. > > Best wishes Jaz > Naperville, IL USA but brought up in Whitley Bay, Northumberland, married to > Alan EILLES born and raised in Newcastle upon Tyne > > James ELLIES or ELLES, weaver of Melrose, Roxburghshire, married in 1690 > Isobel USHER. They are my ancestors : I descend from their daughter > Elizabeth (bap 1691) who married James SMAIL. Further children were Isobel, > 1694, Margaret 1703, and George 1707. > > If Thomas E married Jennet in Legerwood in 1694, then I doubt that he would > be a son of James the weaver of Melrose. It is quite some gap you have to > bridge from James ELLIES in Melrose, and your ancestors in County Durham. > Do you have good reason to believe that they originated in Melrose, I > wonder? If not, then I'd suggest you just progress back from the known to > the unknown, and forget the Melrose lot for the time being! > > Best wishes- > Nancy McLaughlin > Christchurch, NZ >

In a message dated 25/04/03 15:03:08 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: << there was one with the Skull & Cross Bone >> Maybe to do with the Freemasons?

--=======75E6346A======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-10AA3ADD; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have had no mail for a week. Is it my problem of yours? Marion At 10:00 PM 19/04/03 -0600, you wrote: > --=======75E6346A======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-10AA3ADD Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release Date: 18/04/03 --=======75E6346A=======--

I was told the skull and cross bones were engraved on the headstones of masons. There are also some in Oxnam. Rosemary Richardson Date sent: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 20:45:21 +0100 From: "relder" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: [BORDER] Gravestone's > Can anyone tell me why in & around Selkirk i.e Ashkirk, Ancrun, Minto etc > in the Church Cemetery there are Skull & Cross Bone monuments, they where > very small but dotted around the graveyard, there was one with the Skull & > Cross Bone but also an Axe falling on a head, is this anything to do with > a Plague? Curious Bob > > ______________________________ --------------------- London, UK [email protected]

Hi Everybody Sorry - I didn't put a subject heading in the first posting so just in case it was passed over I have re posted. Here is a site which may be of use to anyone with an interest in the Land Forces of " Britain - The Empire and The Commonwealth " http://www.regiments.org/milhist/about/navigation/howto.htm Regards AudreyM

Hi Rosemary & Ian....in response to your query....I thought I would post this URL addie to the list....just in case some of our newbies on the list are also interested....hope you find it useful....regards Esther http://gye.future.easyspace.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rosemary & Ian Richardson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [BORDER] Gravestone's > I was told the skull and cross bones were engraved on the headstones > of masons. There are also some in Oxnam. > Rosemary Richardson > > Date sent: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 20:45:21 +0100 > From: "relder" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: [BORDER] Gravestone's > > > Can anyone tell me why in & around Selkirk i.e Ashkirk, Ancrun, Minto etc > > in the Church Cemetery there are Skull & Cross Bone monuments, they where > > very small but dotted around the graveyard, there was one with the Skull & > > Cross Bone but also an Axe falling on a head, is this anything to do with > > a Plague? Curious Bob > > > > ______________________________ > > > > --------------------- > London, UK > [email protected] > > > ==== BORDER Mailing List ==== > *******************February Theme*********************** > Military family > >

Hi Everybody Here is a site which may be of use to anyone with an interest in the Land Forces of " Britain - The Empire and The Commonwealth " http://www.regiments.org/milhist/about/navigation/howto.htm Regards AudreyM

Audrey, Many thanks for posting the web site for the Dumfries & Galloway 1851 census. One of my families were on it and I have found names I did not have. Well done to all the transcribers! Regards, Gil. Hall. Southampton, England Researching HALL, NBL / DUR; DENT, DUR; KING, BEW / NBL / DUR; STEWART, Edinburgh, MLN / DUR; WINTON, Musselburgh, MLN / STS; BEAUMONT, STS / SAL; HOLDEN (ING), STS; BEES, SOM. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: 24 April 2003 21:37 Subject: [BORDER] (no subject) > Hi Everybody > > I thought the site below might be of interest to someone. > > http://www.dumgal.gov.uk/services/depts/comres/library/census_search.asp. > > It is the 1851 Census for Dumfries and Galloway. > > Regards > AudreyM > > ______________________________