Alan, Thanks for your e-mail. Yes, I'm inclined to agree with you. "Northumbrian place names" say that "Camp" denotes the presence of a Celtic or prehistoric settlement, and in fact there are places in Northumberland called Camphouse., one at Matfen and one at Whalton and a Camphouses near Norham. Popssibly my TEMPLE's legged it up to Jedburgh Kirk on a Sunday, but I believe there were a number of churches/chapels in Jedburgh town at that time, 1760-1770, so it'll be a case of trawling thro' many B.M.D.'s at the local record office. Mike Temple, Spain.---- Original Message ----- From: "Christine and Alan Reid" <[email protected]> To: "Joy and Mike" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [BORDER] Fw: TEMPLE/JEDBURGH PARISH. > I suspect the origins of the names Camphouse and Camptown will go back > considerably further than 1745. Bear in mind that the ancient Roman road > Dere Street ran nearby and that Chesters (the village in the parish of > Southdean) is a common name in places that had Roman roots. > Alan > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joy and Mike" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 12:54 PM > Subject: Re: [BORDER] Fw: TEMPLE/JEDBURGH PARISH. > > > > Judy, > > thanks for your reply. > > I was thinking that the names Camphouse and Camptown might be someting > that > > came out of the 1745 conflict, but I know in Northumberland there is also > a > > Camphouse and various other place names that start with "camp" and the > word > > camp is suppost to denote the presence of a Celtic/prehistoric settlement. > > I also wonder who owned Camphouse in the 1760's, and have been tempted to > > write to the present owners and ask if they know any of the history of the > > farm. > > Any advice from anyone on the list, would be welcome. > > Mike Temple, Spain. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "J A Olsen" <[email protected]> > > To: "Joy and Mike" <[email protected]> > > Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 3:45 PM > > Subject: Re: [BORDER] Fw: TEMPLE/JEDBURGH PARISH. > > > > > > > Or something to do with the Roman presence in the area. Dere Street > passes > > > not far away, Pennymuir was I think a roman camp, and there is of course > > > Trimontium, just a bit further up the A68, then left a bit. > > > > > > I am wondering who owned Camphouse - could it have been local big wig Mr > > > RUTHERFORD of Edgerston and if so, did he leave any records??? Or was he > > too > > > late for your lot. > > > > > > Was it a fermtoun, and the families got chucked off as the land was > > enclosed > > > and let out to a tenant? > > > > > > > > > cheers > > > > > > > > > Judy > > > > > > ---------- > > > >From: "Joy and Mike" <[email protected]> > > > >To: "J A Olsen" <[email protected]> > > > >Subject: Re: [BORDER] Fw: TEMPLE/JEDBURGH PARISH. > > > >Date: 17, Sat Jan, 2004, 4:17 pm > > > > > > > > > > > I wonder, The names-- Camphouse and Camptown-- seem military in sound, > > could > > > > they have come into existance after the 1745 and the "clearance" that > > > > followed ? > > > > ______________________________ > >

Hi Wilf, Have a look at my Anderson collection at :- http://www.chouston.f2s.com/Alltrees/alltrees.html You will find Janet Fleming there too. Regards Charles --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.564 / Virus Database: 356 - Release Date: 19/01/2004

Hello listers, I am new to the list and have done quite a bit of research on my ANDERSON ancestors from Longformacus and Coldingham, I would welcome anything from anyone researching the same places, I know there is quite a lot of Anderson's from Coldingham and the families I have are: Thomas ANDERSON x Agnes EDINGTON married 14 April 1712 George ANDERSON x Janet FLEEMING married June 1738 William ANDERSON x Eizabeth TODD married 24 November 1786 at this point they move to Longformacus, I have most of it but still welcome anything. Thanks in advance. Wilf BROWN, WASHINGTON, TYNE and WEAR, ENGLAND

On a Monumental Stone to the Anderson family at Longformacus part of the inscription reads: ERECTED BY THE FAMILY OF WILLIAM ANDERSON FEUAR IN LONGFORMACUS I know that FEU means ground rent in Scotland and that FEUAR had something to do with paying the landowner not to do war service, could anyone explain what it means when written in this context. Thanks in advance, Wilf Brown

Jim, There are no McATEE or MACATEE listings in the South Australian Indexes (Births to 1906, Marriages to 1916, Deaths to 1915). Nearest phonetically is MACARTY, but no Arthurs amongst them. Sincerely, Brenton Wood Adelaide South Australia =================== Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:03:29 -0800 From: "Arnott, J&H" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Subject: [BORDER] McAtee - Australian Descendants Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a 'long-shot' query. I'm looking for anyone searching the McAtee surname in Australia. <snip> _________________________________________________________________ Hot chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilemania/default.asp

Hi Wilf In my Scots dictionary : Feu (originally) it was a feudal tenure of land where the vassal in place of military service, made a return in grain or in money. (Latterly) is was a holding in which a vassal has the exclusive possession and use of HERITABLE property in return for payment of a feu duty to a superior. a Feu duty was a fixed annual payment. I could find nothing on feuar. Could it mean the owner of the property? Delia

To my knowledge there were never any dissenting congregations in Edgerston, Southdean or Oxnam - the congregations there were all of the Church of Scotland - but people did walk many miles to worship at free churches - in this case, Jedburgh would be the place to go. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joy and Mike" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 9:14 PM Subject: Re: [BORDER] Fw: TEMPLE/JEDBURGH PARISH. > Judy, > yes, it's a guess which direction these people would have taken to > go to church from Camphouse in the 1780's. Probably the nearest Presbyt. > chapel, but which one ? > Mike Temple, Spain. ---- Original Message ----- > From: "J A Olsen" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 5:45 PM > Subject: Re: [BORDER] Fw: TEMPLE/JEDBURGH PARISH. > > > > Its a similar distance from Camptown to Southdean or Jedburgh. I am not > sure > > if Oxnam is also a possibility. > > > > Judy > > > > ---------- > > >From: "Christine and Alan Reid" <[email protected]> > > >To: [email protected] > > >Subject: Re: [BORDER] Fw: TEMPLE/JEDBURGH PARISH. > > >Date: 17, Sat Jan, 2004, 6:06 pm > > > > > > > > I haven't looked at the map but > > > it's possible Southdean church would have been physically nearer. > > > > > > ==== BORDER Mailing List ==== > > A New Year A fresh Start > > Share any new information you have cracked in 2003 > > Any unusual sources of information to break down those brick walls! > > >

I suspect the origins of the names Camphouse and Camptown will go back considerably further than 1745. Bear in mind that the ancient Roman road Dere Street ran nearby and that Chesters (the village in the parish of Southdean) is a common name in places that had Roman roots. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joy and Mike" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 12:54 PM Subject: Re: [BORDER] Fw: TEMPLE/JEDBURGH PARISH. > Judy, > thanks for your reply. > I was thinking that the names Camphouse and Camptown might be someting that > came out of the 1745 conflict, but I know in Northumberland there is also a > Camphouse and various other place names that start with "camp" and the word > camp is suppost to denote the presence of a Celtic/prehistoric settlement. > I also wonder who owned Camphouse in the 1760's, and have been tempted to > write to the present owners and ask if they know any of the history of the > farm. > Any advice from anyone on the list, would be welcome. > Mike Temple, Spain. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "J A Olsen" <[email protected]> > To: "Joy and Mike" <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 3:45 PM > Subject: Re: [BORDER] Fw: TEMPLE/JEDBURGH PARISH. > > > > Or something to do with the Roman presence in the area. Dere Street passes > > not far away, Pennymuir was I think a roman camp, and there is of course > > Trimontium, just a bit further up the A68, then left a bit. > > > > I am wondering who owned Camphouse - could it have been local big wig Mr > > RUTHERFORD of Edgerston and if so, did he leave any records??? Or was he > too > > late for your lot. > > > > Was it a fermtoun, and the families got chucked off as the land was > enclosed > > and let out to a tenant? > > > > > > cheers > > > > > > Judy > > > > ---------- > > >From: "Joy and Mike" <[email protected]> > > >To: "J A Olsen" <[email protected]> > > >Subject: Re: [BORDER] Fw: TEMPLE/JEDBURGH PARISH. > > >Date: 17, Sat Jan, 2004, 4:17 pm > > > > > > > > I wonder, The names-- Camphouse and Camptown-- seem military in sound, > could > > > they have come into existance after the 1745 and the "clearance" that > > > followed ? > > ______________________________

Judy, yes, it's a guess which direction these people would have taken to go to church from Camphouse in the 1780's. Probably the nearest Presbyt. chapel, but which one ? Mike Temple, Spain. ---- Original Message ----- From: "J A Olsen" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 5:45 PM Subject: Re: [BORDER] Fw: TEMPLE/JEDBURGH PARISH. > Its a similar distance from Camptown to Southdean or Jedburgh. I am not sure > if Oxnam is also a possibility. > > Judy > > ---------- > >From: "Christine and Alan Reid" <[email protected]> > >To: [email protected] > >Subject: Re: [BORDER] Fw: TEMPLE/JEDBURGH PARISH. > >Date: 17, Sat Jan, 2004, 6:06 pm > > > > > I haven't looked at the map but > > it's possible Southdean church would have been physically nearer. > > > ==== BORDER Mailing List ==== > A New Year A fresh Start > Share any new information you have cracked in 2003 > Any unusual sources of information to break down those brick walls! >

Hi Jim, I'm not related to your McAtees, but I'm in Australia so I had a look at a few searchable indexes. I didn't find a mention of your people in Victorian or NSW immigration indexes online, though an Ann McAtee came into Victoria in 1857. I checked the birth, death and marriage records up to 1888 for Victoria, Tasmania, Western Australia and New South Wales but didn't find any mention of them, though there were other McAtee families. Sorry I can't be of more help. Judy -----Original Message----- From: Arnott, J&H [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, 19 January 2004 5:03 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [BORDER] McAtee - Australian Descendants This is a 'long-shot' query. I'm looking for anyone searching the McAtee surname in Australia. Specifically, anyone who is descended from Arthur McAtee (MCATEE) , born Ireland abt. 1852 - -- married 31 Oct 1873 in Dalry, Ayr to Martha FERGUSON (born Ireland abt. 1851) -- -- who emigrated with Martha from Scotland (most likely in Ayr) to Australia sometime between 1875 and 1881. I look forward to your response. Thank you Jim Arnott, Canada ==== BORDER Mailing List ==== Seasons Greetings to all Border members

Judy, Thanks for your help, and yes it looks like the religious set-up in Scotland in the 1800's was rather complicated. I'll have a look at the Statistical Accounts and see if there is any leads, alos I might just try a letter to Camphouse farm and see if they can help. A list of Chapels in the vicinity in 1760 would also be worth investigating. Mike Temple, Spain. ----- Original Message ----- From: "J A Olsen" <[email protected]> To: "Joy and Mike" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [BORDER] Fw: TEMPLE/JEDBURGH PARISH. > Aaah. You may come to regret asking that! > > The Church of Scotland is the established church in Scotland, and is > Presbyterian ie no bishops. > > Unfortunately for genealogists, the Scots tend(ed) to take religion rather > seriously. So over the centuries various groups have broken away from the > Church of Scotland to form all sorts of smaller presbyterian churches. Some > of those then splintered again, and some joined up with each other - the > whole thing is very hard to follow. There is a chart somewhere on the web - > try googling St Nicholas Buccleuch and Dalkeith - put together by a Church > of Scotland minister I think. It looks like the London Underground map. > > The biggest split was the Disruption of 1843, which formed the Free Church > of Scotland. One of the main objections people had to the Established Church > was the system of patronage - people thought that they should have the right > to choose their minister. > > All this is VERY relevant for Jedburgh, which was a hotbed of 'secession'. > With so many people in other churches your chances of finding a baptism > diminish. Marriages should be OK, as the banns would be called in the parish > church regardless, and sometimes these records are quite detailed because > the minister has noted who married the couple and in which chapel. There is > also one chink of light in that there are some surviving registers for other > churches in Jedburgh - usually one is left with looking at the kirk session > records. Again, you can find out more by looking at the Statistical > Accounts. > > Cheers > > > Judy > > PS I have a list of Churches in England in Communion with the Church of > Scotland, in 1827. A bit late but it does list Birdhope Cragg (Thomas > Hope, minister) If you know who baptised the children you might be able > to work out whether it was a Church of Scotland chapel. But then you have to > remember that they may have gone there because the church of their choice > was not available. > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- > >From: "Joy and Mike" <[email protected]> > >To: "J A Olsen" <[email protected]> > >Subject: Re: [BORDER] Fw: TEMPLE/JEDBURGH PARISH. > >Date: 17, Sat Jan, 2004, 3:11 pm > > > > > By the way, not being too well educated on the churches of Scotland, is the > > Church of Scotland the same as a Presbyterian chapel ?

Its a similar distance from Camptown to Southdean or Jedburgh. I am not sure if Oxnam is also a possibility. Judy ---------- >From: "Christine and Alan Reid" <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [BORDER] Fw: TEMPLE/JEDBURGH PARISH. >Date: 17, Sat Jan, 2004, 6:06 pm > > I haven't looked at the map but > it's possible Southdean church would have been physically nearer.

As mentioned before, the local bigwig was a Mr Rutherford/Rutherfurd of Edgerston. If you look in the National Library of Scotland manuscript catalogue you will see that they have tons and tons of papers from this family. Including estate records, and much else. If Camphouse was part of this estate then there seems a very good chance that individuals will be mentioned. It looks like the papers themselves have been catalogued fairly recently so I think it is worth an email to the library to see if anyone can tell you if Camphouse comes into it. By the way, if you have the marriages of George and John in Northumberland, have you checked to see if they had the banns called in their home parish ie Jedburgh? The Scottish record might give you additional info. Judy ---------- >From: "Joy and Mike" <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [BORDER] Fw: TEMPLE/JEDBURGH PARISH. >Date: 19, Mon Jan, 2004, 4:09 pm > > Judy, > Thanks for your help, and yes it looks like the religious set-up in > Scotland in the 1800's was rather complicated. > I'll have a look at the Statistical Accounts and see if there is any leads, > alos I might just try a letter to Camphouse farm and see if they can help. > A list of Chapels in the vicinity in 1760 would also be worth investigating. > Mike Temple, Spain.

While there are TEMPLE messages on site, here is my family. 1881 Census place Cramond, Edinburgh, at 1 Granton Mains Cottages. Robert M. TEMPLE farm servant age 31, born Haddington. Georgina wife age 33 born Pencaitland. ( she was the illegitimate dau. of Janet DAVIDSON & William LAMB. ) Robert S. Temple son, age 8 Bn Cranstown , Edinburgh William L Temple son age 6yrs bn. Cranstown. Helen Temple dau. age 4 born Cranstown Janet D. Temple dau age 2, born Cramond, Edinburgh. Marr. Cert. April 1870, shows usual residence, for both, Whitehouse mill Cranston, Robert age 21 yrs., his parents , James Temple a shoemaker, & Helen Temple m.s. Murray. Georgina age 22. Georgina died 1918, age 71 yrs., 17 High St., Bonnyrig. Mary New Zealand

Judy, thanks for your reply. I was thinking that the names Camphouse and Camptown might be someting that came out of the 1745 conflict, but I know in Northumberland there is also a Camphouse and various other place names that start with "camp" and the word camp is suppost to denote the presence of a Celtic/prehistoric settlement. I also wonder who owned Camphouse in the 1760's, and have been tempted to write to the present owners and ask if they know any of the history of the farm. Any advice from anyone on the list, would be welcome. Mike Temple, Spain. ----- Original Message ----- From: "J A Olsen" <[email protected]> To: "Joy and Mike" <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [BORDER] Fw: TEMPLE/JEDBURGH PARISH. > Or something to do with the Roman presence in the area. Dere Street passes > not far away, Pennymuir was I think a roman camp, and there is of course > Trimontium, just a bit further up the A68, then left a bit. > > I am wondering who owned Camphouse - could it have been local big wig Mr > RUTHERFORD of Edgerston and if so, did he leave any records??? Or was he too > late for your lot. > > Was it a fermtoun, and the families got chucked off as the land was enclosed > and let out to a tenant? > > > cheers > > > Judy > > ---------- > >From: "Joy and Mike" <[email protected]> > >To: "J A Olsen" <[email protected]> > >Subject: Re: [BORDER] Fw: TEMPLE/JEDBURGH PARISH. > >Date: 17, Sat Jan, 2004, 4:17 pm > > > > > I wonder, The names-- Camphouse and Camptown-- seem military in sound, could > > they have come into existance after the 1745 and the "clearance" that > > followed ?

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I looked at the Statisical Accounts last night.I think it was the second account by Rev Purves in which he mentions the difficulty of parishioners in the upper ie southern part of the parish, because of the distance. Purves refers to the 2 types of secessionists in the parish. As far as I know their churches were in town. He also says there are no subdivisions ie only Relief Church and one other. I am not sure whether that is true of earlier times. (By the time of the official publication date of the second Statistical Account in 1845 Rev Purves himself had left the Church of Scotland. He was a Free Church Minister from 1843 onwards. The writer of the earlier account was Rev Somerville, uncle (and father in law) of the mathematician Mary Somerville.) Judy ---------- >From: "Christine and Alan Reid" <[email protected]> >To: "J A Olsen" <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [BORDER] Fw: TEMPLE/JEDBURGH PARISH. >Date: 17, Sat Jan, 2004, 6:06 pm > > So in 1795 the > parish church would have been in Jedburgh.

Need to know where Glocerton is in Scotland around 1900's. Thanks Ken

This is a 'long-shot' query. I'm looking for anyone searching the McAtee surname in Australia. Specifically, anyone who is descended from Arthur McAtee (MCATEE) , born Ireland abt. 1852 - -- married 31 Oct 1873 in Dalry, Ayr to Martha FERGUSON (born Ireland abt. 1851) -- -- who emigrated with Martha from Scotland (most likely in Ayr) to Australia sometime between 1875 and 1881. I look forward to your response. Thank you Jim Arnott, Canada

Alan, possibly you are correct, Southdean will be worth checking for B.M.D., if the records exist for the 1760's onwards. I have posted another message to BORDER in the last few minutes, ref. a Chapel I noted on the 1770 maps, near Dolpiston Mill. Anyone know the name of this Chapel ? It's very close to Camptown, also worth a check, if any records exist. Mike Temple, Spain.--- Original Message ----- From: "Christine and Alan Reid" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 7:06 PM Subject: Re: [BORDER] Fw: TEMPLE/JEDBURGH PARISH. > But Edgerston Church was not built until 1838 and Edgerston was not > disjoined from Jedburgh as a quoad sacra parish until 1855. So in 1795 the > parish church would have been in Jedburgh. I haven't looked at the map but > it's possible Southdean church would have been physically nearer. > Alan > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "J A Olsen" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 11:20 PM > Subject: Re: [BORDER] Fw: TEMPLE/JEDBURGH PARISH. > > > > Having now found the place with your directions I would say the nearest > > presbyterian Church of Scotland church would be Edgerston. You can see how > > close this is on the some of the maps online at www.nls.ac.uk. Genuki > pages > > suggest this was a quod sacra parish church - if you havent already done > so > > look at the Statistical Accounts online and you should find the Jedburgh > > section describes the arrangement. > > > > But Jedburgh was a hotbed of dissent so you cant be sure that your > families > > were attending the parish church. Dissenters could often cross parish > > boundaries to hear the preacher of their choice. > > > > Also I wonder whether the TEMPLEs made it on to the muster rolls in the > > Lieutenancy Books of Roxburghshire - these I think are also online. > > > > > > Judy > > > > > > > > > > ---------- > > >From: "J A Olsen" <[email protected]> > > >To: [email protected] > > >Subject: Re: [BORDER] Fw: TEMPLE/JEDBURGH PARISH. > > >Date: 16, Fri Jan, 2004, 7:29 pm > > > > > > > > Can you be more specific Mike? The old maps site is down - is Camptown > to > > > the south of Jed? > > > > > > Judy > > > > > > ---------- > > >>From: "Joy and Mike" <[email protected]> > > >>To: [email protected] > > >>Subject: [BORDER] Fw: TEMPLE/JEDBURGH PARISH. > > >>Date: 16, Fri Jan, 2004, 3:54 pm > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> --- Original Message ----- > > >> Subject: Fw: TEMPLE/JEDBURGH PARISH. > > >>>From [email protected] > > >> > > >> > > >> Researching the families of John Temple of Camphouse, b.c.1764/65 and > his > > >> wife Mary ----------, of Camptown, Jedburgh parish. Also George Temple > of > > >> Camphouse,b.c.1775/76 and his wife Isabel Dagleash of > > >> Elsdon/Northumberland, married at St. Cuthberts, Elsdon, Northumberland > in > > > 1801. > > >> Also, obliged if anybody can advise on the farm "Camphouse", which is > on > > >> the now A68 road and just about 300 yards from Camptown. > > >> Both John and George were Presbyterians. > > >> Also, which Presbyterian chapel would have been the nearest to > > >> Camphouse/Camptown around 1795 ? > > >> Mike Temple, Spain. (ex-Newcastle) > > >> > > >> > > >> ==== BORDER Mailing List ==== > > >> A New Year A fresh Start > > >> Share any new information you have cracked in 2003 > > >> Any unusual sources of information to break down those brick walls! > > >> > > > > > > > > > ==== BORDER Mailing List ==== > > > A New Year A fresh Start > > > Share any new information you have cracked in 2003 > > > Any unusual sources of information to break down those brick walls! > > > > > > > ______________________________ > > > > ==== BORDER Mailing List ==== > A New Year A fresh Start > Share any new information you have cracked in 2003 > Any unusual sources of information to break down those brick walls! >