Edie Your grandfather would have been in E Division which generally served in the Orange River Colony but on occasions when serving in mobile columns they crossed into the Transvaal. One example is a column under Captain Vaughan sent to cooperate in the attempt to retrieve Von Donop's convoy. This would account for his Transvaal bar. The files are full of correspondence about Transvaal bars for E Division members who did not normally serve outside the Orange River Colony (now Orange Free State once more). There were about 500 Canadians in E Division with numbers in the blocks 1900 to 2300. It was a Canadian troop, 17/E that mutinied after the war. The ISBN is correct. Try http://www.foxholemilitaria.com If that doesn't work phone them in Calgary at 264-8342. If this doesn't work send me an email at jimwallace@shaw.ca or phone me at (204) 489-6977. It is getting cold so in about three weeks I will be off to Hawaii for a few months so I will be out of reach. Jim Wallace Winnipeg ----- Original Message ----- From: "E Lenzen" <elenzen@telus.net> To: <BOER-WAR-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 3:39 PM Subject: [BOER-WAR] South African Constabulary > Thanks for the response from Jim Wallace. > > > > Jim, you refer to company's "A", "C" and "E" being where the Canadian's > served. . My grandfather was from Scotland and his service number was > E2865. Do you know if that means he would have been part of company "E" > that served mainly in the Orange Free State? > > > > I tried to find you book "No colours, no drums: Canadians in the South > African Constabulary" but could not find it locally. I'm living in > Vancouver, Canada so perhaps my best bet would be to order it through one > of > our local book stores. I believe the ISBM is 1-894255-27-5. > > > > Edie "on the rox" > > > > > > ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== > Boer War Links > http://freespace.virgin.net/anglers.rest/BoerWarLinks.htm > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >

Thank you George, I will pass this email on to Lars and Tish, your response is most appreciated Regards Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Ward" <wardfam@alphalink.com.au> To: <BOER-WAR-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 12:01 AM Subject: RE: [BOER-WAR] Fw: 'Grave' business of finding the Boer War casualties Part 3 > Hi, > Both Capt. John Kelly and Lt.Alfred G,Johnston were serving with the > 5th.Victorian Mtd Rifles. > John Price in his book "They proved to all the Earth" states that Capt. John > Kelly has cross on his grave, date 8-5- > 1901 and is now buried in the Middelburg Cemetery. > He has no last resting place for Johnston. Maybe the fact that one was KIA > and the other wounded has a bearing on it. Johnston would probably have been > buried near the site of the action > and Kelly brought into the hospital. > I probably have small photos of both these officers. > > Regards, > George Ward Melbourne Aust. > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Humphry [mailto:davidh9999@yahoo.co.uk] > Sent: Sunday, 4 December 2005 4:27 AM > To: BOER-WAR-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [BOER-WAR] Fw: 'Grave' business of finding the Boer War > casualties Part 3 > > > Hi Joe - Below are the details in 'In Memoriam' by Steve Watt. Some entries > add a bit of detail while others just confirm what Lars and Tish have found. > Regards, David > > Joe Ellis <joellis@mweb.co.za> wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joe Ellis > To: joellis@mweb.co.za > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 11:43 PM > Subject: 'Grave' business of finding the Boer War casualties Part 3 > > > Dear Lister's, > > Lars and Tish have found the graves of over 1100 Boer War British officers, > but still need to find the following 21 officers, they would be most > grateful if any one can assist with the locations of of graves for the > following 21 officers : This is a copy of a document given to me by Lars and > Tish Meyering. > > 1. ANDERSON LT J Commander in Chief's Bodyguard Killed In Action ( KIA ) > near Clocolan 22/12/1900 > Late Southern Rhodesia Vols ??? Cannot locate, could have been Re-interred > to Kroonstad as Unknown > Originally buried at Clocolan but re-interred at North Road Cemetery, > Kroonstad (unmarked grave). > > 2. BRASS CAPT. Ernest Henry 2nd Battalion East Yorkshire Regt. Drowned Wilge > River 10/11/1901 > Cannot trace. Could be anywhere along Wilge River from Villiers to Natal > No known grave > > 3. BOOTH BVT MAJ Arthur William Calvert Northumberland Fusiliers KIA > Koornspruit near Bloemfontein 31/3/1900 > Re-interred elsewhere ?? or unmarked grave > Buried at Sannas Post (unmarked grave) > > 4. CLIFFORD LT Edward Cofmack Bethunes Mounted Infantry Died Heart Attack > Disease Paaupan NW Cape on Railway. > Many unmarked graves at Paauwpan farm. Legend has that he was buried there. > Cannot confirm. > Buried at Paauwpan (unmarked grave) > > 5. DENNY CAPT Peter Robert 1st Dragoon Guards KIA near De Wetsdorp 25/4/1900 > Cannot positively locate grave. Moved from Roodekop to De Wetsdorp ??? > Re-interred England ?? > Originally buried at Rooikop but re-interred at English Common Cemetery, > Dewetsdorp (unmarked grave) > > 6.FRANCIS CAPT Henry Farmer Steinackers Horse KIA O'Pisanes North Sabie > River 7/8/1901 > Cannot positively locate grave site. Farmer's a well know Natal family. > No known grave > > 7.FREISLICH LT Frederick Charles Grahamstown Vols KIA near Poplars Drift > 7/3/1900 > Cannot positively locate and identify gravesite > Buried at Gladstone Cemetery, Kimberley (unmarked grave) > > 8. GATES LT Charles Arthur A Cape Col Cyclist Corps Died Disease Naauwpoort > ( Noupoort ) 22/11/1899 > Gravesite not located > No known grave > > 9. HARRIS CAPT. Owen West Riding Regt. comm 16th battalion Mounted Inf. Died > Disease 9/10/1901 > Invalided home to England ?? Noted as 3 memorials in UK > No known grave > > 10. HARVEY CAPT. John Allen New Zealand Mounted Inf KIA Buffelshoek near > Zeerust 16/8/1900 > Re-interred from Buffelshoek. Not positively located in Zeerust > Originally buried at Zendelings Post, re-interred at Witrand and > re-interred again at Zeerust Cemetery (grave marked by a headstone but > marked "unknown") > > 11. HELSHAM LT. Somerville 11th Batt Imp Yeo KIA Bankfontein near Lindley > 25/11/1901 > Records say he was buried at Sterfontein near Lindley. Cannot locate > Buried at Sterfontein, Lindley (unmarked grave) > > 12. JOHNSON LT. Alfred Gresham Australian Mounted Rifles KIA Rhenoster Kop > 7/5/1901 > According to troop movements this is in the Middleburg area . Cannot locate. > No known grave (listd as Johnston) > > 13. KELLY CAPT. J Vict Mtd Rifles Died of Wounds ( DOW ) ( received in > action at Rhenoster Kop 5/5/1901) 7/5/1901 > Orginally buried at Brugspruit but re-interred at Middelburg Cemetery > > Both JOHNSON & KELLY must have been involved in the same action. Cannot > positively locate. > > 14.MUNROE LT. J.G.S. Kitcheners Horse KIA Houtnek near THABA NCHU 30/4/1900 > Death confirmed in nominal roll. Name inscribed as MUNRO on Dukes memorial > at Cape Town Castle. Cannot locate grave. > No known grave (NMC records also show grave unlocated) > > 15. NAUGHTON LT. Kitcheners Fighting Scouts KIA Klipkraal near Richmond > 27/2/1901 > Found grave marker to an unknown LT. KFS at Richmond. Cannot trace any > further info except that we was dangerously wounded in action. > Originally buried at Klipkraal but re-interred at Richmond (grave marked > by unnamed metal cross) > > 16. OLDNALL CAPT Henry Cairn Royal Horse Art KIA Tabaksberg near Winburg > 29/1/1901 > Cannot locate grave. Some reports that he was taken prisoner by the Boers > and died later > Buried at Winburg, near Tabaksberg (unmarked grave) > > 17. PHILLIPS LT. Arthur 9th Batt Imp Yeo KIA Nonskraal near Fauresmith > 25/12/1901 > Should be buried at KOKSKRAAL along with other casualties of the action, but > cannot positively identify grave. > Buried at Kokskraal (unmarked grave) > > 18. PORTER 2ND LT John J 2nd Dragoon Guards KIA between Carolina and Bethat > 16/10/1900 > Cannot locate grave. Re-interred ex Weltevreden to Lake Chrissie. Not > positively identified. > Not listed (although he is shown in the casualty list) > > 19. SELOUS LT Harry Dyson 2nd Batt Bedfordshire Regt. KIA Paardeberg > 18/2/1900 > Should be buried at Gruisbank. Re-interred ex Wilhelmina. Cannot positively > identify grave. Was he buried as unknown > Originally buired at Wilhelmina, Paardeberg but re-interred at Gruisbank, > Paardeberg (unmarked grave) > > 20. WIMBERLEY 2ND LT Charles Francis Irvine 2nd Batt Welsh Regt. DOW ( > received in action at Driefontein ) 12/3/1900 > Cannot locate grave site which should be near the field hospital located one > and a half miles behind the lines. Could be the unidentified grave near > Umphelby at farmhouse. Memorials in UK noted as LT. > Buried at Bosrand Cemetery, Driefontein (grave marked by unnamed metal > cross) > > 21. WILLS LT T 10th Batt Imp Yeo KIA near Wolmaranstad 26/2/1902 > Wills and a Shoesmith by the name of Hurst were killed in this action > neither of whom can be located. > Willis (sic) No known grave (NMC records also show grave unlocated) > Same for Hurst > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Model Search - Could you be the next catwalk superstar? Check out > the competition now > > > ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== > List Admin Message > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > > > ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== > Boer War Links > http://freespace.virgin.net/anglers.rest/BoerWarLinks.htm > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx >

Thanks for the response from Jim Wallace. Jim, you refer to company's "A", "C" and "E" being where the Canadian's served. . My grandfather was from Scotland and his service number was E2865. Do you know if that means he would have been part of company "E" that served mainly in the Orange Free State? I tried to find you book "No colours, no drums: Canadians in the South African Constabulary" but could not find it locally. I'm living in Vancouver, Canada so perhaps my best bet would be to order it through one of our local book stores. I believe the ISBM is 1-894255-27-5. Edie "on the rox"

Hi, Both Capt. John Kelly and Lt.Alfred G,Johnston were serving with the 5th.Victorian Mtd Rifles. John Price in his book "They proved to all the Earth" states that Capt. John Kelly has cross on his grave, date 8-5- 1901 and is now buried in the Middelburg Cemetery. He has no last resting place for Johnston. Maybe the fact that one was KIA and the other wounded has a bearing on it. Johnston would probably have been buried near the site of the action and Kelly brought into the hospital. I probably have small photos of both these officers. Regards, George Ward Melbourne Aust. -----Original Message----- From: David Humphry [mailto:davidh9999@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, 4 December 2005 4:27 AM To: BOER-WAR-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BOER-WAR] Fw: 'Grave' business of finding the Boer War casualties Part 3 Hi Joe - Below are the details in 'In Memoriam' by Steve Watt. Some entries add a bit of detail while others just confirm what Lars and Tish have found. Regards, David Joe Ellis <joellis@mweb.co.za> wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Ellis To: joellis@mweb.co.za Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 11:43 PM Subject: 'Grave' business of finding the Boer War casualties Part 3 Dear Lister's, Lars and Tish have found the graves of over 1100 Boer War British officers, but still need to find the following 21 officers, they would be most grateful if any one can assist with the locations of of graves for the following 21 officers : This is a copy of a document given to me by Lars and Tish Meyering. 1. ANDERSON LT J Commander in Chief's Bodyguard Killed In Action ( KIA ) near Clocolan 22/12/1900 Late Southern Rhodesia Vols ??? Cannot locate, could have been Re-interred to Kroonstad as Unknown Originally buried at Clocolan but re-interred at North Road Cemetery, Kroonstad (unmarked grave). 2. BRASS CAPT. Ernest Henry 2nd Battalion East Yorkshire Regt. Drowned Wilge River 10/11/1901 Cannot trace. Could be anywhere along Wilge River from Villiers to Natal No known grave 3. BOOTH BVT MAJ Arthur William Calvert Northumberland Fusiliers KIA Koornspruit near Bloemfontein 31/3/1900 Re-interred elsewhere ?? or unmarked grave Buried at Sannas Post (unmarked grave) 4. CLIFFORD LT Edward Cofmack Bethunes Mounted Infantry Died Heart Attack Disease Paaupan NW Cape on Railway. Many unmarked graves at Paauwpan farm. Legend has that he was buried there. Cannot confirm. Buried at Paauwpan (unmarked grave) 5. DENNY CAPT Peter Robert 1st Dragoon Guards KIA near De Wetsdorp 25/4/1900 Cannot positively locate grave. Moved from Roodekop to De Wetsdorp ??? Re-interred England ?? Originally buried at Rooikop but re-interred at English Common Cemetery, Dewetsdorp (unmarked grave) 6.FRANCIS CAPT Henry Farmer Steinackers Horse KIA O'Pisanes North Sabie River 7/8/1901 Cannot positively locate grave site. Farmer's a well know Natal family. No known grave 7.FREISLICH LT Frederick Charles Grahamstown Vols KIA near Poplars Drift 7/3/1900 Cannot positively locate and identify gravesite Buried at Gladstone Cemetery, Kimberley (unmarked grave) 8. GATES LT Charles Arthur A Cape Col Cyclist Corps Died Disease Naauwpoort ( Noupoort ) 22/11/1899 Gravesite not located No known grave 9. HARRIS CAPT. Owen West Riding Regt. comm 16th battalion Mounted Inf. Died Disease 9/10/1901 Invalided home to England ?? Noted as 3 memorials in UK No known grave 10. HARVEY CAPT. John Allen New Zealand Mounted Inf KIA Buffelshoek near Zeerust 16/8/1900 Re-interred from Buffelshoek. Not positively located in Zeerust Originally buried at Zendelings Post, re-interred at Witrand and re-interred again at Zeerust Cemetery (grave marked by a headstone but marked "unknown") 11. HELSHAM LT. Somerville 11th Batt Imp Yeo KIA Bankfontein near Lindley 25/11/1901 Records say he was buried at Sterfontein near Lindley. Cannot locate Buried at Sterfontein, Lindley (unmarked grave) 12. JOHNSON LT. Alfred Gresham Australian Mounted Rifles KIA Rhenoster Kop 7/5/1901 According to troop movements this is in the Middleburg area . Cannot locate. No known grave (listd as Johnston) 13. KELLY CAPT. J Vict Mtd Rifles Died of Wounds ( DOW ) ( received in action at Rhenoster Kop 5/5/1901) 7/5/1901 Orginally buried at Brugspruit but re-interred at Middelburg Cemetery Both JOHNSON & KELLY must have been involved in the same action. Cannot positively locate. 14.MUNROE LT. J.G.S. Kitcheners Horse KIA Houtnek near THABA NCHU 30/4/1900 Death confirmed in nominal roll. Name inscribed as MUNRO on Dukes memorial at Cape Town Castle. Cannot locate grave. No known grave (NMC records also show grave unlocated) 15. NAUGHTON LT. Kitcheners Fighting Scouts KIA Klipkraal near Richmond 27/2/1901 Found grave marker to an unknown LT. KFS at Richmond. Cannot trace any further info except that we was dangerously wounded in action. Originally buried at Klipkraal but re-interred at Richmond (grave marked by unnamed metal cross) 16. OLDNALL CAPT Henry Cairn Royal Horse Art KIA Tabaksberg near Winburg 29/1/1901 Cannot locate grave. Some reports that he was taken prisoner by the Boers and died later Buried at Winburg, near Tabaksberg (unmarked grave) 17. PHILLIPS LT. Arthur 9th Batt Imp Yeo KIA Nonskraal near Fauresmith 25/12/1901 Should be buried at KOKSKRAAL along with other casualties of the action, but cannot positively identify grave. Buried at Kokskraal (unmarked grave) 18. PORTER 2ND LT John J 2nd Dragoon Guards KIA between Carolina and Bethat 16/10/1900 Cannot locate grave. Re-interred ex Weltevreden to Lake Chrissie. Not positively identified. Not listed (although he is shown in the casualty list) 19. SELOUS LT Harry Dyson 2nd Batt Bedfordshire Regt. KIA Paardeberg 18/2/1900 Should be buried at Gruisbank. Re-interred ex Wilhelmina. Cannot positively identify grave. Was he buried as unknown Originally buired at Wilhelmina, Paardeberg but re-interred at Gruisbank, Paardeberg (unmarked grave) 20. WIMBERLEY 2ND LT Charles Francis Irvine 2nd Batt Welsh Regt. DOW ( received in action at Driefontein ) 12/3/1900 Cannot locate grave site which should be near the field hospital located one and a half miles behind the lines. Could be the unidentified grave near Umphelby at farmhouse. Memorials in UK noted as LT. Buried at Bosrand Cemetery, Driefontein (grave marked by unnamed metal cross) 21. WILLS LT T 10th Batt Imp Yeo KIA near Wolmaranstad 26/2/1902 Wills and a Shoesmith by the name of Hurst were killed in this action neither of whom can be located. Willis (sic) No known grave (NMC records also show grave unlocated) Same for Hurst --------------------------------- Yahoo! Model Search - Could you be the next catwalk superstar? Check out the competition now ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== List Admin Message http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm ============================== View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx

Hi Glynis: He may not have been accepted for the local contingents to the war, so went to South Africa (possibly by stowing away) and joined up with a South African unit there. This happened in New Zealand, though some men also looked after the horses on the ship to get to South Africa. Where was he from? Yours, John Wilson > I have a question about "Stowaways". A rumor in our family is that my > husbands Grandfather was a stowaway on a boat during the Anglo Boer War. > War. Is this possible. I was lead to believe he was a volunteer. >

Hi Edie The SAC were recruited by the Colonial Office rather than the War Office. Lord Milner believed 6,000 men would be sufficient but Lord Roberts believed 10,000 were needed and this figure was accepted provided the War Office covered the cost of the additional 4,000 men. The Proclamation creating the force included a provision that the Constabulary would serve "as a military force in times of war." This produced a hybrid civil-military force, neither fish nor fowl. Officers were appointed and could be dismissed by the High Commissioner. Generally discipline was enforced under the South African Constabulary Regulations although the men were also subject to court martial for serious offences while serving as a military force. NCO ranks were similar to military ranks but had some differences in title and badges, e.g. a warrant officer was called a superintendent in the SAC. The were approximately 1,500 Canadians so they were far from forming a majority of the force. The Canadians were mostly in "A", "C" and "E" Divisions. One Canadian troop in "E" Division was disbanded for mutinous conduct. "B" Division in the northern Transvaal, commanded by Colonel Sam Steele, a former officer of the North-West Mounted Police, had few Canadians during the war but had a number transferred in shortly after hostilities ended because of problems in the other divisions. ----- Original Message ----- From: "E Lenzen" <elenzen@telus.net> To: <BOER-WAR-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 5:16 PM Subject: [BOER-WAR] South African Constabulary > Thanks to all who responded to my request for information about the SAC. > I'll look for the book "No colours no drums". > > > > I'm presuming that the Canadian experience in the SAC would be the same as > that for Scottish recruits to the SAC. On the surface it appears that > the > Canadians formed the majority of the SAC. > > > > Edie "on the rox" > > > > > > ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== > Getting Started on Boer War Research? > http://freespace.virgin.net/anglers.rest/BWInfo.htm > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > >

Hi Joe - Below are the details in 'In Memoriam' by Steve Watt. Some entries add a bit of detail while others just confirm what Lars and Tish have found. Regards, David Joe Ellis <joellis@mweb.co.za> wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Ellis To: joellis@mweb.co.za Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 11:43 PM Subject: 'Grave' business of finding the Boer War casualties Part 3 Dear Lister's, Lars and Tish have found the graves of over 1100 Boer War British officers, but still need to find the following 21 officers, they would be most grateful if any one can assist with the locations of of graves for the following 21 officers : This is a copy of a document given to me by Lars and Tish Meyering. 1. ANDERSON LT J Commander in Chief's Bodyguard Killed In Action ( KIA ) near Clocolan 22/12/1900 Late Southern Rhodesia Vols ??? Cannot locate, could have been Re-interred to Kroonstad as Unknown Originally buried at Clocolan but re-interred at North Road Cemetery, Kroonstad (unmarked grave). 2. BRASS CAPT. Ernest Henry 2nd Battalion East Yorkshire Regt. Drowned Wilge River 10/11/1901 Cannot trace. Could be anywhere along Wilge River from Villiers to Natal No known grave 3. BOOTH BVT MAJ Arthur William Calvert Northumberland Fusiliers KIA Koornspruit near Bloemfontein 31/3/1900 Re-interred elsewhere ?? or unmarked grave Buried at Sannas Post (unmarked grave) 4. CLIFFORD LT Edward Cofmack Bethunes Mounted Infantry Died Heart Attack Disease Paaupan NW Cape on Railway. Many unmarked graves at Paauwpan farm. Legend has that he was buried there. Cannot confirm. Buried at Paauwpan (unmarked grave) 5. DENNY CAPT Peter Robert 1st Dragoon Guards KIA near De Wetsdorp 25/4/1900 Cannot positively locate grave. Moved from Roodekop to De Wetsdorp ??? Re-interred England ?? Originally buried at Rooikop but re-interred at English Common Cemetery, Dewetsdorp (unmarked grave) 6.FRANCIS CAPT Henry Farmer Steinackers Horse KIA O'Pisanes North Sabie River 7/8/1901 Cannot positively locate grave site. Farmer's a well know Natal family. No known grave 7.FREISLICH LT Frederick Charles Grahamstown Vols KIA near Poplars Drift 7/3/1900 Cannot positively locate and identify gravesite Buried at Gladstone Cemetery, Kimberley (unmarked grave) 8. GATES LT Charles Arthur A Cape Col Cyclist Corps Died Disease Naauwpoort ( Noupoort ) 22/11/1899 Gravesite not located No known grave 9. HARRIS CAPT. Owen West Riding Regt. comm 16th battalion Mounted Inf. Died Disease 9/10/1901 Invalided home to England ?? Noted as 3 memorials in UK No known grave 10. HARVEY CAPT. John Allen New Zealand Mounted Inf KIA Buffelshoek near Zeerust 16/8/1900 Re-interred from Buffelshoek. Not positively located in Zeerust Originally buried at Zendelings Post, re-interred at Witrand and re-interred again at Zeerust Cemetery (grave marked by a headstone but marked "unknown") 11. HELSHAM LT. Somerville 11th Batt Imp Yeo KIA Bankfontein near Lindley 25/11/1901 Records say he was buried at Sterfontein near Lindley. Cannot locate Buried at Sterfontein, Lindley (unmarked grave) 12. JOHNSON LT. Alfred Gresham Australian Mounted Rifles KIA Rhenoster Kop 7/5/1901 According to troop movements this is in the Middleburg area . Cannot locate. No known grave (listd as Johnston) 13. KELLY CAPT. J Vict Mtd Rifles Died of Wounds ( DOW ) ( received in action at Rhenoster Kop 5/5/1901) 7/5/1901 Orginally buried at Brugspruit but re-interred at Middelburg Cemetery Both JOHNSON & KELLY must have been involved in the same action. Cannot positively locate. 14.MUNROE LT. J.G.S. Kitcheners Horse KIA Houtnek near THABA NCHU 30/4/1900 Death confirmed in nominal roll. Name inscribed as MUNRO on Dukes memorial at Cape Town Castle. Cannot locate grave. No known grave (NMC records also show grave unlocated) 15. NAUGHTON LT. Kitcheners Fighting Scouts KIA Klipkraal near Richmond 27/2/1901 Found grave marker to an unknown LT. KFS at Richmond. Cannot trace any further info except that we was dangerously wounded in action. Originally buried at Klipkraal but re-interred at Richmond (grave marked by unnamed metal cross) 16. OLDNALL CAPT Henry Cairn Royal Horse Art KIA Tabaksberg near Winburg 29/1/1901 Cannot locate grave. Some reports that he was taken prisoner by the Boers and died later Buried at Winburg, near Tabaksberg (unmarked grave) 17. PHILLIPS LT. Arthur 9th Batt Imp Yeo KIA Nonskraal near Fauresmith 25/12/1901 Should be buried at KOKSKRAAL along with other casualties of the action, but cannot positively identify grave. Buried at Kokskraal (unmarked grave) 18. PORTER 2ND LT John J 2nd Dragoon Guards KIA between Carolina and Bethat 16/10/1900 Cannot locate grave. Re-interred ex Weltevreden to Lake Chrissie. Not positively identified. Not listed (although he is shown in the casualty list) 19. SELOUS LT Harry Dyson 2nd Batt Bedfordshire Regt. KIA Paardeberg 18/2/1900 Should be buried at Gruisbank. Re-interred ex Wilhelmina. Cannot positively identify grave. Was he buried as unknown Originally buired at Wilhelmina, Paardeberg but re-interred at Gruisbank, Paardeberg (unmarked grave) 20. WIMBERLEY 2ND LT Charles Francis Irvine 2nd Batt Welsh Regt. DOW ( received in action at Driefontein ) 12/3/1900 Cannot locate grave site which should be near the field hospital located one and a half miles behind the lines. Could be the unidentified grave near Umphelby at farmhouse. Memorials in UK noted as LT. Buried at Bosrand Cemetery, Driefontein (grave marked by unnamed metal cross) 21. WILLS LT T 10th Batt Imp Yeo KIA near Wolmaranstad 26/2/1902 Wills and a Shoesmith by the name of Hurst were killed in this action neither of whom can be located. Willis (sic) No known grave (NMC records also show grave unlocated) Same for Hurst --------------------------------- Yahoo! Model Search - Could you be the next catwalk superstar? Check out the competition now

Thanks to all who responded to my request for information about the SAC. I'll look for the book "No colours no drums". I'm presuming that the Canadian experience in the SAC would be the same as that for Scottish recruits to the SAC. On the surface it appears that the Canadians formed the majority of the SAC. Edie "on the rox"

----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Ellis To: joellis@mweb.co.za Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 11:43 PM Subject: 'Grave' business of finding the Boer War casualties Part 3 Dear Lister's, Lars and Tish have found the graves of over 1100 Boer War British officers, but still need to find the following 21 officers, they would be most grateful if any one can assist with the locations of of graves for the following 21 officers : This is a copy of a document given to me by Lars and Tish Meyering. 1. ANDERSON LT J Commander in Chief's Bodyguard Killed In Action ( KIA ) near Clocolan 22/12/1900 Late Southern Rhodesia Vols ??? Cannot locate, could have been Re-interred to Kroonstad as Unknown 2. BRASS CAPT. Ernest Henry 2nd Battalion East Yorkshire Regt. Drowned Wilge River 10/11/1901 Cannot trace. Could be anywhere along Wilge River from Villiers to Natal 3. BOOTH BVT MAJ Arthur William Calvert Northumberland Fusiliers KIA Koornspruit near Bloemfontein 31/3/1900 Re-interred elsewhere ?? or unmarked grave 4. CLIFFORD LT Edward Cofmack Bethunes Mounted Infantry Died Heart Attack Disease Paaupan NW Cape on Railway. Many unmarked graves at Paauwpan farm. Legend has that he was buried there. Cannot confirm. 5. DENNY CAPT Peter Robert 1st Dragoon Guards KIA near De Wetsdorp 25/4/1900 Cannot positively locate grave. Moved from Roodekop to De Wetsdorp ??? Re-interred England ?? 6.FRANCIS CAPT Henry Farmer Steinackers Horse KIA O'Pisanes North Sabie River 7/8/1901 Cannot positively locate grave site. Farmer's a well know Natal family. 7.FREISLICH LT Frederick Charles Grahamstown Vols KIA near Poplars Drift 7/3/1900 Cannot positively locate and identify gravesite 8. GATES LT Charles Arthur A Cape Col Cyclist Corps Died Disease Naauwpoort ( Noupoort ) 22/11/1899 Gravesite not located 9. HARRIS CAPT. Owen West Riding Regt. comm 16th battalion Mounted Inf. Died Disease 9/10/1901 Invalided home to England ?? Noted as 3 memorials in UK 10. HARVEY CAPT. John Allen New Zealand Mounted Inf KIA Buffelshoek near Zeerust 16/8/1900 Re-interred from Buffelshoek. Not positively located in Zeerust 11. HELSHAM LT. Somerville 11th Batt Imp Yeo KIA Bankfontein near Lindley 25/11/1901 Records say he was buried at Sterfontein near Lindley. Cannot locate 12. JOHNSON LT. Alfred Gresham Australian Mounted Rifles KIA Rhenoster Kop 7/5/1901 According to troop movements this is in the Middleburg area . Cannot locate. 13. KELLY CAPT. J Vict Mtd Rifles Died of Wounds ( DOW ) ( received in action at Rhenoster Kop 5/5/1901) 7/5/1901 Both JOHNSON & KELLY must have been involved in the same action. Cannot positively locate. 14.MUNROE LT. J.G.S. Kitcheners Horse KIA Houtnek near THABA NCHU 30/4/1900 Death confirmed in nominal roll. Name inscribed as MUNRO on Dukes memorial at Cape Town Castle. Cannot locate grave. 15. NAUGHTON LT. Kitcheners Fighting Scouts KIA Klipkraal near Richmond 27/2/1901 Found grave marker to an unknown LT. KFS at Richmond. Cannot trace any further info except that we was dangerously wounded in action. 16. OLDNALL CAPT Henry Cairn Royal Horse Art KIA Tabaksberg near Winburg 29/1/1901 Cannot locate grave. Some reports that he was taken prisoner by the Boers and died later 17. PHILLIPS LT. Arthur 9th Batt Imp Yeo KIA Nonskraal near Fauresmith 25/12/1901 Should be buried at KOKSKRAAL along with other casualties of the action, but cannot positively identify grave. 18. PORTER 2ND LT John J 2nd Dragoon Guards KIA between Carolina and Bethat 16/10/1900 Cannot locate grave. Re-interred ex Weltevreden to Lake Chrissie. Not positively identified. 19. SELOUS LT Harry Dyson 2nd Batt Bedfordshire Regt. KIA Paardeberg 18/2/1900 Should be buried at Gruisbank. Re-interred ex Wilhelmina. Cannot positively identify grave. Was he buried as unknown? 20. WIMBERLEY 2ND LT Charles Francis Irvine 2nd Batt Welsh Regt. DOW ( received in action at Driefontein ) 12/3/1900 Cannot locate grave site which should be near the field hospital located one and a half miles behind the lines. Could be the unidentified grave near Umphelby at farmhouse. Memorials in UK noted as LT. 21. WILLS LT T 10th Batt Imp Yeo KIA near Wolmaranstad 26/2/1902 Wills and a Shoesmith by the name of Hurst were killed in this action neither of whom can be located.

----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Ellis To: joellis@mweb.co.za Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 11:42 PM Subject: 'Grave' business of finding the Boer War casualties Part 2 copyright : Tygertalk Goodwood/Parow, Cape Community Newspapers, Independent Newspapers (Cape). Part II Certain facts did not match up and true to Tish's self-confessed curious nature, she did some research to clarify the matter. And that's how everything snowballed. "This business is about visiting the archives, museums, reading and researching books. "One cannot just accept that what you read is true,one has to do cross reference all the time." she says. Today the Meyerings are extremely knowledgeable about their subject and hope to produce a book documenting their efforts over the past 25 years. "We spent holidays looking for graves. to this day our daughter boasts about her knowledge of graveyards all over South Africa. We packed our van and set off, a caravan would have been no good because of the rough terrain. Parking in the graveyards and sleeping there,was what we did, but now things have changed we are older and it is not safe anymore," says Tish. They always ask permission from the farmer to do research on his land and have made many wonderful friends over the years. Tish says the Cape and the Free State are here favourite places for field trips. They have captured their trips in many photographs and have documented graves that have been vandalised over the years. "The graves in Beaufort West are an example of this kind of vandalism, people not only break the stones, but steel the plaques to sell for scrap metal.' Tish says. Another place that holds special memories for them is Deelfontein, a small village, south of De Aar on the main railway line to Cape Town. At the time of the Boer War, Deelfontein had a hospital and a hotel, the Yeomanry, which was built by the Adamstein family. "We knew the longer-living of the two Adamstein brothers well, he died about three years ago." says Lars. The Meyerings never travel alone. They have a four ;egged companion called Jack, who seems to take his part in their ventures quite seriously, never leaving their presence. "One could day that Jack is in the graveyard business," says Lars. What will they do to keep busy after their book is finished? "We'll probably move on to World War I, " he laughs. "No" Tish exclaims: "I think then we'll call it a day." However, before the book can become a reality, the Meyerings still have to account for 21 officers. ( Details of these 21 officers to follow in part III ) Anyone who would like to share information with the Meyerings can contact Lars on his mobile phone 0823985224, or via me off list at joellis@mweb.co.za Regards Joe Ellis

It was recommended that I send this message to this site. It is rather large so there are three parts, If anyone can assist I am sure Lars and Tish will be most appreciative. Regards Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Ellis To: joellis@mweb.co.za Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 11:39 PM Subject: 'Grave' business of finding the Boer War casualties Part 1 Good Afternoon All Lister's, The following article which was written for my local community newspaper is very long, so I will break it up into parts. The Newspaper Editor has requested that I incorporate the following copyright : Tygertalk Goodwood/Parow, Cape Community Newspapers, Independent Newspapers (Cape). The Article and research is on Boer War British (OFFICERS only ) grave sites.The couple mentioned in the article still need to finalise 21 more names ( Names to follow separately ) and I would appreciate it if anyone can assist Lars and Tish with the remaining 21 names by contacting me off list at joellis@mweb.co.za . Same applies for anyone requiring a look up, they do not have Internet so I am prepared to act as a go between, however, they do stay about 10 km away so I will do this In batches and not individually. Article: Their passion for the many British soldiers who died during the Anglo Boer War have become a way of life for Lars Meyering and his wife Tish. In the study at their home in the northern suburbs, books abound and the display of war memorabilia and tools of their trade is evidence of their abiding interest in the subject. Cecile van Rensburg spoke to the couple about their unusual interest. When Lars Meyering was a young man doing an apprenticeship on the former Rhodesian Railways he collected bayonets and when he returned to South Africa he continued his hobby. Today he has an impressive collection of bayonets, as well war medals and badges. "When we set out 25 years ago our mission was to find the grave of every single British officer who died in South Africa, Zimbabwe, Botswana and Maputo," Tish said. She recalls the time her computer crashed and she had to re-enter all the hard copy. Initially when we started out, we first found the grave and then researched the person's military information, but as we went along the project just got so much bigger. Tish adds, "We were once having a discussion with friends and someone told the story of a certain high ranking Scottish officer who was killed at Magersfontein, but seven days after his death his body was exhumed and moved to Matjiesfontein. The then owner of Matjiesfontein, a Mr. Logan, was granted permission to re-bury the Scottish officer at Matjiesfontein." See/part II

Hello Geof, Many thanks for your message re Pinemore, I've been trying for quite a while to find this information This will almost complete my reasearch in to My Wife's grandfathers travels to the Boer War, Many many thanks, Denis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharon and Geof Watts" <sandgwatts@apex.net.au> To: "Denis L Bush" <denis@dbush5566.freeserve.co.uk>; <BOER-WAR-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 9:39 PM Geof, Subject: Re: Transport Ship Pinemore > Denis > > The Historic Photograph Collection at the National Maritime Museum > (http://www.nmm.ac.uk/) appears to have a photograph - it is not online > and would have to be ordered. > > Details are: > > Name of vessel: OXONIAN > Country of Register: (BR) > Date of launch: 1898 > Type of vessel: Cargo liner (ref. mchy) > Former names: ex PINEMORE > Owners/managers: F Leyland & Co Ltd > Negative number: P29860 (7P) C 5 Aug. 1922 Under way. > > Geof Watts > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Denis L Bush" <denis@dbush5566.freeserve.co.uk> > To: <BOER-WAR-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 6:18 AM > Subject: Transport Ship Pinemore > > >> Having been in correspondence re Boer War transport,I have decided to >> seek yet again help with the above, >> has anyone information as to where I can obtain a photograph of the >> Transport Ship Pinemore ? >> The ship transported my wife's grandfather to Cape Town in 1900 >> Any help will be appreciated >> Regards, Denis >> > > >

greatly appreciate how I can get service record etc beverley

The above was my great great uncle. He was originally from Dublin, Ireland and emigrated to England. He joined the South Irish Horse and fought in the Boer War. I know he survived it as he went on to serve in WW1. He was married and had four children, one of whom (a daughter) died young. Would anyone know how I could find out more information? Thanks Cathy Daly

Denis The Historic Photograph Collection at the National Maritime Museum (http://www.nmm.ac.uk/) appears to have a photograph - it is not online and would have to be ordered. Details are: Name of vessel: OXONIAN Country of Register: (BR) Date of launch: 1898 Type of vessel: Cargo liner (ref. mchy) Former names: ex PINEMORE Owners/managers: F Leyland & Co Ltd Negative number: P29860 (7P) C 5 Aug. 1922 Under way. Geof Watts ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denis L Bush" <denis@dbush5566.freeserve.co.uk> To: <BOER-WAR-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 6:18 AM Subject: Transport Ship Pinemore > Having been in correspondence re Boer War transport,I have decided to seek > yet again help with the above, > has anyone information as to where I can obtain a photograph of the > Transport Ship Pinemore ? > The ship transported my wife's grandfather to Cape Town in 1900 > Any help will be appreciated > Regards, Denis >

The SAC was to be the police force for the newly annexed Transvaal and Orange River Colony when it was believed the Anglo-Boer War was coming to an end after the occupation of Pretoria. There was a provision that they could be used as soldiers in wartime and this occurred when the war continued. The SAC then reverted to its intended police roll until its demise in 1908. The majority of the men were from Britain with some Canadian, Australian New Zealanders etc. Approximately 1500 Canadians served in the SAC, 1209 recruited in Canada and the others in Britain or South Africa. Details about the Canadian participation and much about the SAC as a whole can be found in my book No Colours, No Drums: Canadians in the South African Constabulary ISBN 1-894255-27-5 Jim Wallace Manitoba, Canada. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Wilson" <hugo@actrix.gen.nz> To: <BOER-WAR-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 7:01 AM Subject: [BOER-WAR] The South African Constabulary > Hi All: > > The South African Constabulary may have been intended as a police > unit, but seems to have had a largely military roll, and was claimed to > be largely Canadian: > http://www.civilization.ca/cwm/boer/southafricaconstabulary_e.html > http://www.collectionscanada.ca/genealogy/022-506.002-e.html > > Plus Baden-Powell's role: > http://www.scouting.org.za/seeds/sac.html > http://www.pinetreeweb.com/bp-piper12.htm > > The South African Museum of Military History: > http://www.militarymuseum.co.za/ANCESTORS.html > > J.F.C. Fuller in his "Memoirs of an Unconventional Soldier" recalls > as a subaltern of 23 when he was an Intelligence Officer in charge of > Kaffir Scouts in 1902. They were with a column of South African > Constabulary operating against three Boer Commandos. He saw what > he thought were S.A.C. on his right, then he realised they were part of > Kritzinger's Commando in British khaki uniforms. His 70 Kaffir > Scouts were a mixture of "Kaffirs, Basutos, half-caste Hottentots > and one evil-eyed Bushman". They covered an area of 4000 square > miles around Bothaville and the River Valsh. See also his "The Last of > the Gentlemen's Wars". > > Yours, John Wilson > > > ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== > List Admin Message > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx >

Hello Glynis, and all who have tried to help me, no success yet re photo of Transport ship Pinemore, however, I will keep trying Regards to all, Denis

the original SS Pinemore is indeed listed on http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/lines/johnston.htm (no photo) follow the link and you'll see it was renamed SS Oxonian and then scrapped 1928. Google says it's sailors received 17 gallantry medals when it rescued 25 sailors in 1920, then it hit a berg 21/5/1923. but can't see any images. Local press may have something for the events but it's not local to me. you may want to see if there is a mariners email group too. JonB -----Original Message----- From: Glynis Millett-Clay [mailto:glynis@kwikmark.co.za] Sent: 30 November 2005 03:52 To: BOER-WAR-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [BOER-WAR] Re: Transport Ship Pinemore Hi Denis, I found these sites, however this ship was built in 1955. Look for links and maybe you will be lucky. http://www.shawsavillships.co.uk/pinemore.htm http://www.theshipslist.com/pictures/index.htm Regards, Glynis

Have a look at rootsweb marine/ships/ masters/mariners mailing lists. there are several. Good luck and happy Christmas Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denis L Bush" <denis@dbush5566.freeserve.co.uk> To: <BOER-WAR-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 8:18 AM Subject: [BOER-WAR] Transport Ship Pinemore > Having been in correspondence re Boer War transport,I have decided to seek > yet again help with the above, > has anyone information as to where I can obtain a photograph of the > Transport Ship Pinemore ? > The ship transported my wife's grandfather to Cape Town in 1900 > Any help will be appreciated > Regards, Denis > > > > ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== > Boer War Links > http://freespace.virgin.net/anglers.rest/BoerWarLinks.htm > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/188 - Release Date: > 29/11/2005 > >

My apologies to the Boer War list for my the misfired multi - send. Please disregard it. I am sitting in the bush hoping to catch genie leads to where my Grandfather's brothers migrated. Regards Brian On 29-Nov-05, at 7:51 PM, Glynis Millett-Clay wrote: > Hi Denis, > > I found these sites, however this ship was built in 1955. Look for > links and maybe you will be lucky. > http://www.shawsavillships.co.uk/pinemore.htm > http://www.theshipslist.com/pictures/index.htm > Regards, > Glynis > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denis L Bush" > <denis@dbush5566.freeserve.co.uk> > To: <BOER-WAR-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 9:18 PM > Subject: Transport Ship Pinemore > > >> Having been in correspondence re Boer War transport,I have decided to >> seek yet again help with the above, >> has anyone information as to where I can obtain a photograph of the >> Transport Ship Pinemore ? >> The ship transported my wife's grandfather to Cape Town in 1900 >> Any help will be appreciated >> Regards, Denis > > > ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== > List Admin Message > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >