Hi Dorothy I have been helping someone with a similar issue to yours, on another list. Here is a useful link for you: http://www.militarymuseum.co.za/ANCESTORS.html For the Boer War side you need to first try to establsh if he would have enlicted locally into a regiment raised by South Africa to assist the British (as a Colonial Force), this takes some time to establish. If this person would have served in WW1 either in a South African unit (as part of the SA Expeditionary Force) or in a British unit then there will be a medal card for him in the UK National Archives in Kew. A medal card was raised for every single military person who fought for King and Country and also a lot of civilians and charitable organisations who were attached to various parts in the theatres of war. Most associate France and Gallipoli as the theatres but the SA forces saw service in South West Africa and South East Africa which entitles them to medals...hence the medal card. The link to search is :http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/browse-refine.asp?se archType=browserefine&query=first_name%3Djames%7Clast_name%3Dkelly%7Ccor pname%3Dargyll&catID=10&pageNumber=1&queryType=1&mediaArray=* Just input the name or variations of it and under regiment just put South African if no hits then leave blank and go through all the matches looking for a "possible" If you are in luck and can narrow it down to a single card or one or two close ones then you can engage a paid researcher to look to see if the service record is in Kew then if you are really lucky and ther is one and it is your fellow than you will be on a roll. Be prepared for a long haul as this is not easy but there again not impossible.. If you find it difficult the contact me off line. regards -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/206 - Release Date: 16/12/2005

Hello David and John, Many thanks for such instant replies! I think I should get his records and find out what this chap was up to before I decide on the clasps. Trawling through the mailing list archives over the weekend I was very impressed by how generous everyone was with their knowledge. Thanks again Kieran

Hi Kieran, The good news is that it is possible to reconstitute a disc only medal. The bad news is that in this case it is likely to be a tad expensive because of the clasps Ward qualified for. There is also a discrepancy about one of the clasps he was supposedly entitled to. According to the cavalry QSA roll Ward was entitled to Cape Colony, Rhodesia, Talana, South Africa 1901 & South Africa 1902. However the comments column states "Arrived in S.A. after 15/7/01". As the battle of Talana took place right at the beginning of the war on 20/10/1899 and as the 5th Lancers as a unit weren't there, there has to be some doubt that he was entitled to it. One squadron was at the battle of Elandslaagte (close to Talana and fought the day after) and the whole regiment in that theatre was soon besieged in Ladysmith for 4 months. The entire British force which survived death or capture at Talana fell back on Ladysmith and was also besieged. If he had been at Talana I can't see how he would have avoided being besieged in Ladysmith thereby also qualifying for the Defence of Ladysmith clasp. If he had been taken prisoner at Talana he would have been carted off to Pretoria and immediately upon release from from prison following the fall of Pretoria in June 190! 0 he would have automatically qualified for the Transvaal clasp. There is no indication that he had split service in S.A. while if he had unbroken service from Talana to 1902 (as indicated by the clasps) he would have received the King's South Africa Medal (KSA) with the two dated clasps instead of these being on the QSA. All in all a bit of a mystery. Rhodesia is also an unusual clasp for the regiment but perfectly possible. This is likely to be a bit pricey as it is scarce. As I see it you have two choices. Either to reconstitute the medal according to the roll including Talana (which will also be a pretty expensive clasp) or to assume, on the prima facie evidence above, that the roll is wrong about Talana (and rolls aren't always 100% correct) and omit it. Chris Dixon is one of the leading medal dealers in the UK and he offers a repair service. Your best bet is to contact him for a quote, telling him that you have a QSA disc only and that you need it to be reconstitiuted with a suspender, the clasps you decide on, and a length of ribbon. (The ribbon at least is cheap!). His details are: C.J. & A.J. Dixon Ltd. 1st Floor 23 Prospect Street Bridlington East Yorkshire YO15 2AE Tel: 01262 - 676877 Fax: 01262 - 606600 e-mail: chris@dixonsmedals.co.uk I've dealt with him for years and have also had a broken suspension on a QSA expertly repaired so I can recommend him. I commend you on your efforts to reconstitute a very nice medal to an excellent regiment. Regards, David Kieran Campbell <kierancampbell@iolfree.ie> wrote: Dear List, I have the QSA medal of 5773 Pte. J. Ward 5th Lancers, given to me about 20 years ago by my late uncle who had a grocers shop and pub in Ardee, Co. Louth. He had no idea where the medal came from and it may have been there since my grandfather's time. I will probably use a researcher to find out who Pte. Ward was from the records in Kew. Only the circular medallion part survives and traces of solder suggest the medal was mounted as a brooch. The suspension bar (correct name?), clasps and ribbon are missing. I would like to restore the medal to as close as possible to its original state. Can anyone tell me, from material they have to hand, which clasps Pte. Ward was entitled to? Also, is it possible to source original clasps or will I inevitably have to use replicas? I suspect I might have difficulty getting the 'suspension bar'. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. Kieran Campbell --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail

Hello I am new to this list and I am trying to find any information on Alfred HAIGH born 1873 in Milnrow Lancashire. He was my great uncle. He served in the Boer War and according to family information he stayed in South Africa. The only information I have about him is from a New Testament that he sent home to his sister in Milnrow and marked South Africa 1900 on the front, and which he signed 20 Feb 1901 S A.on the back page. Also, on the back page of the book are the signatures in pencil: P.J Allen B.A Curtis G.B. Carter R.F. Seymour Moult Another not clear At the bottom, P.A. McIntyre S.A.G.M. Soldiers Home. If anyone knows any of these names or where I could get further information, I would be very grateful. Regards Dorothy

Dear List, I have the QSA medal of 5773 Pte. J. Ward 5th Lancers, given to me about 20 years ago by my late uncle who had a grocers shop and pub in Ardee, Co. Louth. He had no idea where the medal came from and it may have been there since my grandfather's time. I will probably use a researcher to find out who Pte. Ward was from the records in Kew. Only the circular medallion part survives and traces of solder suggest the medal was mounted as a brooch. The suspension bar (correct name?), clasps and ribbon are missing. I would like to restore the medal to as close as possible to its original state. Can anyone tell me, from material they have to hand, which clasps Pte. Ward was entitled to? Also, is it possible to source original clasps or will I inevitably have to use replicas? I suspect I might have difficulty getting the 'suspension bar'. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. Kieran Campbell

Dear Kieran, According to the medal roll for the Regular cavalry researched and published by Kevin Asplin, 5773 Private John Ward arrived in South Africa after 15/07/1901. He is entitled to the Queens South Africa Medal with clasps for Cape Colony, Rhodesia, Talana, 1901, and 1902. I hope that this is of some help to you. Good hunting John JOHN CRONIN CHRISTCHURCH DORSET UK NOLITE ME CULPARE-SUFFRAGATUS SUM ERAE PORCELLAE

Hi Shannah I did some more searching without success. While there are a large number of SAC other rank files in South Africa they are not complete. If your gr-uncle was an officer the file may not be found as readily but there is a file on officers in the Archives in Pretoria. You would have to get somebody there to have a look for you. If you don't have a contact you will need a researcher. Try Audrey Portman at rhino.research@icon.co.za Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "S. TWISS-GRIGGS" <twiss_griggs@nethop.net> To: <BOER-WAR-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 6:42 PM Subject: [BOER-WAR] TWISS/KEEN family > Hello, > > I had a gr-uncle who served in the Boer War as an engineer for Canada. > Are there any websites, etc., where I may be able to find anything on him, > please? He was in S. A. in C. 1899-1902/3. > > Thank you very much. > > Shannah > > ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== > List Admin Message > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > >

TAKE US OFF YOUR MAIL LIST -----Original Message----- From: Kieran Campbell [mailto:kierancampbell@iolfree.ie] Sent: December 19, 2005 11:35 AM To: BOER-WAR-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BOER-WAR] 5773 Pte. J. Ward 5th Lancers Hello David and John, Many thanks for such instant replies! I think I should get his records and find out what this chap was up to before I decide on the clasps. Trawling through the mailing list archives over the weekend I was very impressed by how generous everyone was with their knowledge. Thanks again Kieran ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== Boer War List Page http://freespace.virgin.net/anglers.rest/BoerWar.htm ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx

Hello, I had a gr-uncle who served in the Boer War as an engineer for Canada. Are there any websites, etc., where I may be able to find anything on him, please? He was in S. A. in C. 1899-1902/3. Thank you very much. Shannah

Thank you to everyone for your assistance. I now know the complete names of the various outfits my grandfather served with and I have also found the relevant references in the London Gazette! Yours, Melissa

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 01:01:20 -0700 BOER-WAR-D-request@rootsweb.com wrote: IMR - there was a unit Isipingo Mounted Rifles (a forerunner of the Natal Mtd Rifles) but it ceased to exist c. 1879. 'Your' IMR could be "Imperial Military Railways". DSO & CMG & MC are significant awards. DSO usually awarded for distinguished service or gallantry (in latter case gallantry not considered worthy of e.g. a VC or GC but more significant than lower award like MC). A DSO is seldom awarded to anyone ranking lower than Lieut-Colonel. CMG was mainly awarded for services in the Commonwealth/Empire. It is an order of chivalry as the highest class awards involve a knighthood. The DSO and CMG are in my opinion also two of the "prettiest" decorations ;-) The MC was introduced in WW1. It was usually awarded to commissioned officers and warrant officers for gallantry. Usually not awarded to anyone higher than Major rank. Hope this helps somewhat. ___________________________________________________________________ For super low premiums, click here http://www.webmail.co.za/dd.pwm http://www.webmail.co.za the South African FREE email service

DSO and CMG MC and other gallantry awards and medals and the civilian equivalents are all "gazetted" in the London Gazette which is available for free at : http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk TSO is in the process of digitising the entire historical archive on behalf of HMSO. Already available online is the period covering the World Wars and the 20th Century Honours and Awards. The entire 20th Century archive is now available to view online. The material in this archive is historic and cannot be assumed to be reliable in a current context. If you have any further questions about the Gazettes Archive please e-mail london.gazette@tso.co.uk with a subject line "Archive Query BTW since the free access to 20th Century gazettes they have been inundated with mail queries so there is a long waiting list. NB Officer's commissions and promotions are also "Gazetted" in this periodical. The earlier issues are only available on line via subscription presently. Also there are partner dissolutions and bankruptcies in this publication. The search engine is good having two specially tuned buttons for WW1 or WW11 and a date range selection as a third option. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/204 - Release Date: 15/12/2005

Thankyou for responding Steve- In my younger days (1930's)in Sandhurst, a Major Boyce used to tell me many war stories- few that I can remember now. I used to think he was a relative, but later found out he was a kind neighbour. Thks anyway Phil Long

Phil I am not aware of any realtives in Berks, the majority of the Boer War era and earlier come from "the fens" - that area of Britain that includes Cambridgeshire, Norfolk, Suffolk, and Linconshire. Although it sound like alot of counties the villages concerned are only a few miles apart. Of the more recent generations I can mange Texas, Chicago, Spain, Liverpool, Hampshire, but most of us are in and around Northamptonshire. Steve Boyce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Long" <phillong@neptune.on.ca> To: <BOER-WAR-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 1:10 PM Subject: Re: [BOER-WAR] Grave sites > Steve, are you related to the Boyce's in Sandhurst,Berks? > > Philip Long - Sharon Ontario Canada. > > > ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== > Boer War Links > http://freespace.virgin.net/anglers.rest/BoerWarLinks.htm > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/199 - Release Date: > 13/12/2005 > >

David Thanks so much for your help Steve Boyce ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Humphry" <davidh9999@yahoo.co.uk> To: <BOER-WAR-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 8:26 AM Subject: Re: [BOER-WAR] Grave sites > Hi Steve - His entry in 'In Memoriam' shows 151746 AB C. Boyce being on > the cemetery memorial at Mooi River and with his grave marked by a metal > cross. He is also shown as being 25 years old and religion C of E. > Regards, David > > Steve <steve.boyce@btinternet.com> wrote: I am researching a relative > Charles BOYCE who was an able seaman on HMS > POWERFUL and at Ladysmith but sadly died of dysentry at Mooi River (site > of > the no 4 Field Hospital) on 09 Apr 1900. I understand that his grave is > number 4/61. > > I have been advised that this is in a "dodgy area" but understand that > care > of the grave will shortly be taken over by the CWGC. > > Any info on the cemetery and whether or not there might be a marker on the > grave would be gratefully received. > > Steve Boyce > > > > --------------------------------- > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new > Yahoo! Security Centre. > > > ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== > List Admin Message > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/199 - Release Date: > 13/12/2005 > >

Hi Melissa and David Another possibility for IMR would be Imperial Military Railway. My database includes a number of entries gleaned from newspaper reports of returning soldiers showing that unit. Colin Roe Oz-Boer Database www.pcug.org.au/~croe/ozb/oz_boer.cgi On Thursday 15 December 2005 19:01, BOER-WAR-D-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > Re: [BOER-WAR] military designations > Date: Wed Dec 14 18:29:57 2005 > From: David Humphry <davidh9999@yahoo.co.uk> > To: BOER-WAR-L@rootsweb.com > > Hi Melissa, >     >   1) V.B. = Volunteer Battalion >     >   2) V.S.C. = Volunteer Service Company >     >   3) Rand Rifles - Formed after the fall of Johannesburg to the British > (31/5/1900). They guarded the gold mines and were effectively the > Johannesburg Town Guard. >   4) I.M.R. = Definitely Mounted Rifles but not Imvoti. (Should be Umvoti). > My guess is Indwe. >   5) Your guesses ref D.F.F.A., K.L.H. & C.G.A. are correct. >     >   6) The volunteer battalions were not part of the regular army but part > time soldiers who were able to respond to the government's request for > military service. This normally involved home service only but in the Boer > War most (if not all) regular infantry regiments provided a volunteer > service company from one of their volunteer battalions for service in South > Africa. As for his apparently extensive service with so many units in a > shorter military career, I think that he retained (and quoted) his > principal affiliation with the Royal Fusiliers' Volunteer Battalion while > simultaneously attached to the other units. >   I hope this helps. Regards, David > > mlagusis <mlagusis@pacbell.net> wrote: > > Hello listers, > > I am new to this list so I apologize if this query is a repeat. I > attempted to send this message before I had subscribed officially, so > this is my second effort. > > > I just received the Attestation papers for my grandfather, Robert > Percy CLARK, for the Canadian Overseas Expeditionary Force (WW1). > In it he lists his previous military experience in South Africa. > > I wonder if anyone can confirm my interpretation of the abbreviations > and the significance of certain initials. > > He lists: > > 4 yrs V.B. Royal Fusiliers...what does V.B. signify? > > 2 yrs V.S.C. Royal Fusiliers....again what is the significance of > V.S.C.? > > 1 yr Rand Rifles > > 3 mo I.M.R. Vol....what does I.M.R. stand for? > > 18 mos D.F.F.A .....I am guessing that this stands for Diamond Fields > Field Artillery. > > 5 mos K.L.H....I am guessing this stands for Kimberley Light Horse. > > 8 yrs 5th C.G.A.....am I correct in guessing that this stands for > Cape Garrison Artillery? > > I think some of his experience must have been concurrent because, as > far as I know, he was only in South Africa from 1900 to 1908. Was it > possible to serve in different outfits simultaneously or was he > padding his resume? > I also have his attestation papers from British National Archives > confirming his service in the South African campaign 1900, 1901 with > the Royal Fusiliers. I believe he received the following medals > (according to my deceased aunt) but I have no idea of their > significance: > > Commander St Michael and St George, the Military Cross, The > Distinguished Service Order, General Service Medals, The Mons Star, > Coronation 1911, South Africa: King's and Queen's Long Service Medals. > > Where could I find more details on his South African military record? > > I do know that he went on to achieve the rank of Brigadier General in > the Canadian Army. > > Yours, > Melissa -- Colin Roe, Torrens ACT Australia

Hi Colin - Yes, you could well be right. I hadn't thought of a railway unit but in a way it's a bit more logical that an officer from a territorial battalion would be attached to one rather than to a local mounted rifles unit. David Colin Roe <croe@pcug.org.au> wrote: Hi Melissa and David Another possibility for IMR would be Imperial Military Railway. My database includes a number of entries gleaned from newspaper reports of returning soldiers showing that unit. Colin Roe Oz-Boer Database www.pcug.org.au/~croe/ozb/oz_boer.cgi --------------------------------- To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre.

Hi Colin, The nameplates on the graves of both Ferris and Fox are a bit hard to read. Over the Christmas break I try to improve on them and forward them to you. Whilst in Mafeking I photographed the grave of Pte S.Lipscombe. The marker states that he was a Victorian Bushmen but from the records it appears he was a member of the NSW Bushmen. Died 19 June 1901. Would you like a copy of this grave as well? Regards George Melbourne -----Original Message----- From: Colin Roe [mailto:croe@pcug.org.au] Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2005 10:46 AM To: BOER-WAR-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [BOER-WAR] Re: Grave of F.Ferris On Wednesday 07 December 2005 08:00, George Ward wrote in BOER-WAR-D-request@rootsweb.com: Hi George cc Andrew There doesn't seem to be shot of either the FERRIS, Frederick Aston or FOX, George Ivory graves on HAGSOC's Middleburg Cemetery page - see www.hagsoc.org.au/sagraves/photos/za01200.php. If you are not keeping your Vic. graves photos for later publication, could they please be included there? Alternatively, if you intend going into print or already have them online elsewhere, I'd appreciate the references/URLs so that I can include those in the relevant entries in the Oz-Boer Database - see www.pcug.org.au/~croe/ozb/oz_boer.cgi I've now added in the information on FERRIS and FOX from this thread and attributed it to you and David. Regards Colin Roe > RE: [BOER-WAR] Re: 'Grave of F.Ferris" > Date: Tue Dec 6 22:04:34 2005 > From: "George Ward" <wardfam@alphalink.com.au> > To: BOER-WAR-L@rootsweb.com > > Good evening David, > I was fortunate enough to visit the Middleburg Cemetery > in Febuary 2000 and came across the metal cross to > Ferris. It has had another metal plate attached to the cross onto which is > stamped > " In memory of Sgt.F.Ferris Sco Horse 6.2.02". Another Scottish Horse > chap,Tpr G.Fox is buried nearby. > I tried to photograph any grave of soldiers fron Victoria that I came > across. > > Fred Ferris's family sold his QSA a few years ago and I hope to purchase it > sometime in the future. It is thought that he > maybe also be entitled to a KSA but the family did not have it. What they > did have was the Union Jack that was said to have been used over his coffin > at his funeral. There was also his badges etc but the dealer has split them > off. > Thank you for the information, I will put it with his photo. > > Kind regards, > > George Ward -- Colin Roe, Torrens ACT Australia ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== Boer War List Page http://freespace.virgin.net/anglers.rest/BoerWar.htm ============================== New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429

Good morning, Steve mentions that his relative died at the 4th. Field Hospital at Mooi River on 09 April 1900.. Does any know if a list of Field Hospitals exists for the Boer War. My grandfather 's brother, Joseph HOLLAND Army No. 3932 was in the RAMC during the Boer war. He went to South Africa on the P & O ship SS Nubia with the 18 Coy RAMC contingent. They arrived in Capetown on the 12 Nov 1899. His Army records say that he was entitled to the QSA and two clasps but I do not know where he actually served after his arrival in South Africa. If anybody knows where the 18 Coy RAMC served I would like to hear from them. Many thanks. Patrick Holland. Perth Western Australia. Steve wrote: > I am researching a relative Charles BOYCE who was an able seaman on > HMS POWERFUL and at Ladysmith but sadly died of dysentry at Mooi River > (site of the no 4 Field Hospital) on 09 Apr 1900. I understand that > his grave is number 4/61. > > I have been advised that this is in a "dodgy area" but understand that > care of the grave will shortly be taken over by the CWGC. > > Any info on the cemetery and whether or not there might be a marker on > the grave would be gratefully received. > > Steve Boyce > > ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== > Getting Started on Boer War Research? > http://freespace.virgin.net/anglers.rest/BWInfo.htm > > ============================== > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > New content added every business day. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx > >

Hi Steve - His entry in 'In Memoriam' shows 151746 AB C. Boyce being on the cemetery memorial at Mooi River and with his grave marked by a metal cross. He is also shown as being 25 years old and religion C of E. Regards, David Steve <steve.boyce@btinternet.com> wrote: I am researching a relative Charles BOYCE who was an able seaman on HMS POWERFUL and at Ladysmith but sadly died of dysentry at Mooi River (site of the no 4 Field Hospital) on 09 Apr 1900. I understand that his grave is number 4/61. I have been advised that this is in a "dodgy area" but understand that care of the grave will shortly be taken over by the CWGC. Any info on the cemetery and whether or not there might be a marker on the grave would be gratefully received. Steve Boyce --------------------------------- To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre.