Hi Margaret, There are many documents, manuscripts books and photos etc. of WF Gatacre in the South African Archives. Have a look at the Archives INDEX at: http://www.national.archives.gov.za/index.htm Click "Search", Click "RSA" Enter your search criteria (gatacre) Click "Search" You will have to appoint someone in SA to investigate specific records for you as the Archives staff will not. The following record is a book. My translation in brackets: DEPOT TAB (=Transvaal Archives in Pretoria) SOURCE Biblioteek (Library) TYPE Boek (Book) REFERENCE 923.542 GAT DESCRIPTION B Gatacre: General Gatacre. The story of the Life and Services of Sir William Forbes Gatacre, KCB, DSO, 1843 - 1906. STARTING 1843 ENDING 1906 REMARKS Uitgewer: John Murray, 1910. Aanwinsnommer: 7936. (Publisher: John Murray, 1910. Acquisition number: 7936) Regards, Gerold. -----Original Message----- From: Margaret SHERIDAN [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 19 February 2003 10:12 To: [email protected] Subject: [BOER-WAR] Gatacre Hello, I am new to the list, but some of you may know me from other mailing lists. I research the history of Alveley Village, nr Bridgnorth, Shropshire www.alveleyhistory.co.uk Sir William Forbes Gatacre, (son of Edward and Jessie Gatacre ) spent his childhood at Coton Hall, Alveley during the 1840's and early 1850's and I would very much appreciate learning more about him. Any biographical info on him or his family would be much appreciated - especially the names of his wife and any children I look forward to hearing from you Best Wishes, Margaret

Hello List, I am searching for information on an ancestor of mine that was in the Boer War, His was Cheseny WILLIAMS, and he was a son of John and Ida WILLIAMS, of Devon, England. Any information, number, unit, medal/s award/s will be greatly appreciated. Many thanks in Advance. Wayne Holmes

Hello David Humphry, I notice that you have access to the Queen's South Africa Medal Rolls. Do you have anything on Alfred Augustus McCready, a resident in the Colony of Victoria before going to South Africa. He certainly saw service with the Natal Naval Corps. He returned to Australia in 1903. Any help would be appreciated. Max McCready ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Humphry" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 3:12 AM Subject: Re: [BOER-WAR] Military Service Records Information > Hello Wayne, > > I have the Queen's South Africa Medal (QSA) Rolls for the Imperial Yeomanry. > The entry you want reads: > > 37886 Trooper Mortimer Herbert 27th Battalion Imperial Yeomanry. Entitled to > QSA with clasps Cape Colony & South Africa 1902. > > This indicates that he was a late arrival. He must have landed at Cape Town > some time between 1 January 1902 and 31 May 1902 when the war ended. The > 27th Battalion was composed of the 123rd, 124th, 125th & 126th Companies > which were among the few not to have a county or other territorial > designation. He wasn't a casualty. > > The good news regarding attestation and service papers is that, unlike the > regular army of the period, those of the I.Y. have close to a 100% survival > rate and Mortimer's are in series WO 128 at the Public Records Office (PRO) > at Kew near London. For the I.Y. these generally run to no more than 4 pages > but are interesting nevertheless. You will need to get a researcher to dig > them out and copy them for you. I can recommend one for you if you wish. > > Regards, > > David > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 4:15 PM > Subject: [BOER-WAR] Military Service Records Information > > > > Good Day, > > I am seeking information on an ancestor that was in the Boer War. > > His name was Mortimer C Herbert, and his number was No.37886. He served > with > > the Imperial Yeomanry, with the 27th Bn. > > Is there information available on this unit, and are Military Service > Records > > available where I could obtain a copy of his records? > > Any leads and information will be greatly appreciated. > > Many thanks in Advance. > > Wayne Holmes, Texas, U.S.A. > > > > > ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== > C J Genealogical Collections > Web Page http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

An illustrated talk about the battlefields of the Boer War will be held at the Museum of the Manchester Regiment, Town Hall, Ashton-under-Lyne on Wednesday 12th March, starting at 7.30pm. The talk will be given by Major Paul Naish, a guide to South African Battlefields of many years experience. A bar will be available on the night for your refreshments! Hope to see you there! David Hopkins Curator Museum of the Manchester Regiment Tel: 0161 343 2878 Fax: 0161 343 2869 www.tameside.gov.uk Please note that I will be away from the office from Monday 3rd March 2003 until Monday 7th April.

I wish to thank all of you who helped me with finding information about my 2nd Great Grandfather, Thomas NICHOLLS. I literally could not have done it without your help. I'm my way now and am studying the history of the 90th Foot Regiment. I'm currently trying to find what I can about Malta and the Ionian Islands--especially the involvement of the British troops that were stationed there. I also had an unexpected but pleasant surprise when I found that Thomas' older brother, Joseph, was also in the 90th Foot Regiment. In fact the two brothers overlapped service for 13 years from 1820 to 1833. Thanks again for your help, Gordon -- Gordon D. Booth, [email protected] on 2003-02-24

Hello Gordon, Without knowing his unit your best bet is to try to find his attestation and service papers in series WO 97 at the Public Record Office (PRO) in London. I'm not very familiar with the period you're looking for but I think the survival rate for papers is higher than for the Boer War period. Being in the U.S. you would need to hire a researcher to to do this for you. I believe that the existence of individual discharge papers issued prior to 1854 are checkable on line at www.catalogue.pro.gov.uk and that copies can be ordered direct from the PRO. However, I have never tried to access these myself. Regards, David ----- Original Message ----- From: Gordon D. Booth <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 1:12 PM Subject: [BOER-WAR] On Finding a Regiment > Although I have been working on my Family History for many years, I > am completely new to British military searches. I know that the > ancestor I am currently working on served in the British army long > before the Boer War, but I hope that someone on this list might be > able to start me in the right direction. > > My ancestor, Thomas NICHOLLS, was living in Birmingham for the 1851 > census. He was listed as a "pensioner." His children were born at > several different places. > > 1st child was born in Dublin, Ireland in 1833. > 2nd child was born in Birmingham in 1834. > 3rd child was born in Birmingham in 1836. > 4th child was born in Portsmouth, Hampshire in 1838. > 5th child was born in Dover Barracks, Kent in 1840. > 6th child's birthplace is unknown (1842). > 7th child's birthplace is unknown (1843). > 8th child was born in Chatham, Kent in 1845. > 9th child was born in Birmingham in 1847. > > Finally, Thomas was listed as a pensioner in 1851. It is my > understanding that (usually) a soldier was entitled to a pension only > if he had suffered a disabling injury or was an invalid. > > My question is the following: With a pattern of movement like the one > I have described, how can I find what regiment(s) would have been in > the locations where my ancestor was living during the years when his > children were born? > > Are there any locations online where I might find specific locations > and times where a regiment might have been. I live in the U.S. > > Any help you might be able to give me would be much appreciated. This > is all new to me. > > Gordon Booth, > -- > Gordon D. Booth, [email protected] on 2003-02-23

Hello June, The 1st Battalion Manchesters landed at Durban afew days before the start of the war and were prinicipally involved in the Defence of Ladysmith, with half of them having fought at the battle of Elandslaagte shortly before the siege started. They were later in the actions around Belfast before spending the second half of the war on more mundane service such as column work and garrison duty. The 2nd Battalion landed at Cape Town in April 1900. They didn't take part in any major actions as a unit and were involved only in minor skirmishes, column work, etc. They usually got the QSA with the clasps Cape Colony, Orange Free State (or Wittebergen) and Transvaal, denoting largely general service. However, a number of men in the 2nd Battalion were detached for duty in the Mounted Infantry and the clasps on your grandfather's medal indicate that he was one of these. The Manchesters are a particular interest of mine so if you advise the medals and naming details off line I will check my records in case I can add anything more specific to the above. Regards, David ----- Original Message ----- From: June Adderley <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 7:33 PM Subject: [BOER-WAR] Manchester regiment in SA 1901 > Dear All, > > This is my first message on this site, and I wondered if anyone can > advise me. > > I have in my possession a group of medals belonging to my grandfather. > > One is the Queens Medal for 1901 with bars for the following > engagements; > > Diamond Hill, Johannesburg, Driefontein, Paarderburg, Relief > of Kimberley. > > I think that he was in the 2nd battalion, and was born in 1869, so he > would have been about 31years old in S.A, > > I believe the Manchester's were previously in India, but I do not know > which battalions. > > I have been informed by the Museum of the Manchester's that they did > not serve at the battle sites on the medal bars > > -but that documentation is a bit thin on the ground. > > -so I suppose he may have been with another regiment for part of his > service there in .S.A. > > He married in 1904 and gave his occupation as an engineers fitter, and > does appear to have left the army at that date. > > He later served in the First World War in France.--when he would be > about 45, ( with a different battalion). > > Is there anywhere I can track the history of the regiment, and the > various battalions? > > Thank you > > M.J. Adderley (-Mrs) Cheshire

Hello Judy, Major Frank Buckley is a very famous name in the history of football but I didn't know he fought in the Boer War as well. Unfortunately there is no single list of men who fought in the Boer War. The nearest to such a thing are the Queen's South Africa Medal Rolls but these are arranged by unit so it's necessary to know the unit first. Do you know if he served in the Boer War as a subaltern and worked his way up to major during continuous service in the army or if he joined as a recruit for the Boer War, left the army and rejoined for WW1? His service papers may survive but it would make it easier to have a search done and indicate the chances of finding them if you know this. Soldiers serving in SA at the time of the 1901 census were not included in it. Regards, David ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael & Judy Buckley <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 12:14 PM Subject: [BOER-WAR] Major Frank Buckley (1883~1964) > Does anyone know anything about my husband's uncle (above) who was a well-known football manager and fought in the Boer War in his late teens? He gained his rank in WW2 on the Somme commanding a battalion of footballers. > > Where can I find lists of soldiers who fought in the Boer War? Does the 1901 census list them? > > Most grateful for any advice. > > Judy Buckley

Dear David, I am very interested to find out if Capt Alexander Findlater Todd served in the Boer War. He was killed on 21/04/1915 during the First World War, when he was serving in the Norfolk Regiment, 3rd Battalion. He was a brother-in-law of my grand-uncle Major Thomas Joseph Crean VC DSO. Many thanks, Patricia Moorhead

Pertaining to Gatacre, below is my draft entry on him that will appear in my forthcoming book, "The Victorians at War, 1815-1914: An Encyclopedia of British Military History and Global Power," to be published in 2004 by ABC-CLIO. I hope this may be of interest to you. Harold Raugh ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------- Gatacre, Lieutenant General Sir William F., 1843-1906 Lieutenant General Sir William F. Gatacre was a senior general who saw considerable active service during the final decade of Queen Victoria's reign, culminating in command of the 3rd Division during the Second Boer War. Gatacre was born in 1843 and commissioned in the army in 1862. He served in India for many years, was an instructor at Sandhurst from 1875-79, and participated in an expedition to Burma in 1889. Gatacre commanded a brigade in the 1895 Chitral Relief Expedition on the North-West Frontier. On one occasion an attack was to be conducted on a rebel leader's fort. Gatacre thought the mission too risky, and argued with the force chief of staff over seniority. By the time the force commander arrived, the rebels had slipped away. As a major general, Gatacre was sent to the Sudan in early 1898, and commanded a British brigade at the Battle of Atbara (8 April 1898) and a division at Omdurman (2 September 1898). While his soldiers fought well, Gatacre was considered an abrasive officer, "totally unable to delegate, he interfered constantly with his battalion commanders and insisted on being consulted on the slightest measure, right down to platoon level" (Neillands 1996, p. 191). Gatacre arrived in South Africa in November 1899 in command of the 3rd Division. He was tasked, with a small ad hoc force (as most of his division had been sent to Natal), to try to control as much of the northeastern section of Cape Colony as he could, and to prevent any Boer advances from Stormberg. Even though instructed to remain on the defensive until reinforced, Gatacre was determined to seize Stormberg in a dawn attack after a night march. Gatacre failed to conduct a reconnaissance, at the last minute changed the route and direction of attack (or got lost en route), and then led tired troops in rugged terrain in an attempt to surprise the Boers. In superb physical condition, Gatacre -- nicknamed "Backacher" by his soldiers -- expected his troops to also be in excellent shape and marched them as if they were impervious to fatigue. At daylight on 10 December 1899, Gatacre's column was caught unprotected in a pass with Boers on the high ground. The Boers opened fire on the British, some of whom were able to occupy nearby high ground, but most were exhausted and withdrew hastily. British casualties at Stormberg, one of the three significant British defeats constituting "Black Week," were 28 killed, 51 wounded, and 634 captured. On 10 April 1900, however, after Gatacre had failed to send his force to assist during an attack near Dewetsdorp, he was sacked and unnecessarily humiliated by Field Marshal Lord Roberts, commander-in-chief. Gatacre returned to England and commanded the Eastern District until he retired in 1904. Gatacre, who "was as brave as a lion . . . No day was too hot for him, no hours too long, no work too hard" (Belfield 1975, p. 49), later worked for a rubber company, and died of fever in the jungles of Abyssinia in 1906. See also Atbara, Battle of, 8 April 1898; North-West Frontier; Omdurman, Battle of, 2 September 1898; Roberts, Field Marshal Frederick S., V.C.; Stormberg, Battle of, 10 December 1899 References Barthorp (1987); Belfield (1975); Farwell (1972); Neillands (1996); Pakenham (1979)

Hello Wayne, I have the Queen's South Africa Medal (QSA) Rolls for the Imperial Yeomanry. The entry you want reads: 37886 Trooper Mortimer Herbert 27th Battalion Imperial Yeomanry. Entitled to QSA with clasps Cape Colony & South Africa 1902. This indicates that he was a late arrival. He must have landed at Cape Town some time between 1 January 1902 and 31 May 1902 when the war ended. The 27th Battalion was composed of the 123rd, 124th, 125th & 126th Companies which were among the few not to have a county or other territorial designation. He wasn't a casualty. The good news regarding attestation and service papers is that, unlike the regular army of the period, those of the I.Y. have close to a 100% survival rate and Mortimer's are in series WO 128 at the Public Records Office (PRO) at Kew near London. For the I.Y. these generally run to no more than 4 pages but are interesting nevertheless. You will need to get a researcher to dig them out and copy them for you. I can recommend one for you if you wish. Regards, David ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 4:15 PM Subject: [BOER-WAR] Military Service Records Information > Good Day, > I am seeking information on an ancestor that was in the Boer War. > His name was Mortimer C Herbert, and his number was No.37886. He served with > the Imperial Yeomanry, with the 27th Bn. > Is there information available on this unit, and are Military Service Records > available where I could obtain a copy of his records? > Any leads and information will be greatly appreciated. > Many thanks in Advance. > Wayne Holmes, Texas, U.S.A.

Does anyone know anything about my husband's uncle (above) who was a well-known football manager and fought in the Boer War in his late teens? He gained his rank in WW2 on the Somme commanding a battalion of footballers. Where can I find lists of soldiers who fought in the Boer War? Does the 1901 census list them? Most grateful for any advice. Judy Buckley

I am a new subscriber and am looking for information on my Grandfather - HENRY SHEPPARD HART CAVENDISH who was a Captain in the South African Light Horse during the Boer War. Could anyone tell me where I can find out about his service, please? Many thanks, Isabel

Although I have been working on my Family History for many years, I am completely new to British military searches. I know that the ancestor I am currently working on served in the British army long before the Boer War, but I hope that someone on this list might be able to start me in the right direction. My ancestor, Thomas NICHOLLS, was living in Birmingham for the 1851 census. He was listed as a "pensioner." His children were born at several different places. 1st child was born in Dublin, Ireland in 1833. 2nd child was born in Birmingham in 1834. 3rd child was born in Birmingham in 1836. 4th child was born in Portsmouth, Hampshire in 1838. 5th child was born in Dover Barracks, Kent in 1840. 6th child's birthplace is unknown (1842). 7th child's birthplace is unknown (1843). 8th child was born in Chatham, Kent in 1845. 9th child was born in Birmingham in 1847. Finally, Thomas was listed as a pensioner in 1851. It is my understanding that (usually) a soldier was entitled to a pension only if he had suffered a disabling injury or was an invalid. My question is the following: With a pattern of movement like the one I have described, how can I find what regiment(s) would have been in the locations where my ancestor was living during the years when his children were born? Are there any locations online where I might find specific locations and times where a regiment might have been. I live in the U.S. Any help you might be able to give me would be much appreciated. This is all new to me. Gordon Booth, -- Gordon D. Booth, [email protected] on 2003-02-23

Hi there, I have been searching the internet this evening for biographical info on Maj Gen W F Gatacre and came across the following - " Boer War Commerative Medal made of Brass portrayed the Queen surrounded by six commanding officers Buller, French, Gatacre, Kitchener, White and Roberts " Can anyone tell me more about this ?? Any help much appreciated Best Wishes, Margaret

Dear All, This is my first message on this site, and I wondered if anyone can advise me. I have in my possession a group of medals belonging to my grandfather. One is the Queens Medal for 1901 with bars for the following engagements; Diamond Hill, Johannesburg, Driefontein, Paarderburg, Relief of Kimberley. I think that he was in the 2nd battalion, and was born in 1869, so he would have been about 31years old in S.A, I believe the Manchester's were previously in India, but I do not know which battalions. I have been informed by the Museum of the Manchester's that they did not serve at the battle sites on the medal bars -but that documentation is a bit thin on the ground. -so I suppose he may have been with another regiment for part of his service there in .S.A. He married in 1904 and gave his occupation as an engineers fitter, and does appear to have left the army at that date. He later served in the First World War in France.--when he would be about 45, ( with a different battalion). Is there anywhere I can track the history of the regiment, and the various battalions? Thank you M.J. Adderley (-Mrs) Cheshire

Where would be best, to find the details of a regular soldier a sergeant, probably in a regiment associated with Leicester UK and who served in the Boer War. Brian Southwell

Hi there, Does SKS possibly know the medals and awards bestowed to Maj gen Sir William Forbes Gatacre ? -and also if he was married and the name wife/wives and if he ever had any children ? Any help much appreciated Best Wishes, Margaret Sheridan

June, The 2nd Manchester served in SA from April 1900 to the end of the war but is not recorded for the Battles and Operations you list and neither is The 1st Manchester (who served there for the full duration). Your best bet is someone who could consult the medals registers at Kew. This will then give you his regiment. Then if you can get to a larger library (or a University library) they might have, or should be able to obtain on inter-library loan the Times History of the War in South Africa - seven volumes. This will allow you to find the full account of his regiment in SA. including if it was seconded from India. HTH Bryan Slim Canada >I have in my possession a group of medals belonging to my grandfather. > >One is the Queens Medal for 1901 with bars for the following >engagements; > > Diamond Hill, Johannesburg, Driefontein, Paarderburg, Relief >of Kimberley. > >I think that he was in the 2nd battalion, and was born in 1869, so he >would have been about 31years old in S.A, > >I believe the Manchester's were previously in India, but I do not know >which battalions. > >I have been informed by the Museum of the Manchester's that they did >not serve at the battle sites on the medal bars > >-but that documentation is a bit thin on the ground. > >-so I suppose he may have been with another regiment for part of his >service there in .S.A. > >Is there anywhere I can track the history of the regiment, and the >various battalions? > >Thank you > >M.J. Adderley (-Mrs) Cheshire >

Jake, It would take considerable time to transcribe one of the lists of regiments. Can you not be a little more precise which ones you are looking for and so receive a yes or no reply. Bryan Slim Canada >Hello Again, > >I was wondering if anyone could do a look up for me. I need to know >which regiments were besieged in Ladysmith as well as all of the >Regiments that took part in the town's liberation. Thanks to Bryan >Slim, I have learned that this information is located in 'The Times >History of the War in South Africa." Any help would be very, very >appreciated. > >Thanks again, > >Jake > > >==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== >C J Genealogical Collections >Web Page http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections > >============================== >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy >records, go to: >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237