> Does anyone know of any hospital(s) in Cork used by the British Army > in 1900, 1901...for these purposes? > Does anyone know where I might find hospital records for my > grandfather? > Thank you in advance for any help you can give me, > Susan in Beautiful BC Hi Susan, there was a British Military Hospital in Cork at that time, staffed by the Army Nursing Service. I do not have Anne Kennedy on any of my lists of Army Nurses (see http://www.pcansr.net), but she may well have been locally employed. cheers Keiron _________________________________________ Keiron Spires [T: 01276 503246 F: 01276 501460 M: 07973 308328]

Hi David; Thankyou for looking for me...thinking I'm going to have to try to hunt down his son (assuming he's still living) and see if he's got any info...I'll keep my fingers crossed - this side of my family has been an enigma for sure. TTFN, Nova David Humphry <davidh9999@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Hi Nova - He doesn't appear in any references I have. He was presumably wounded in WW1 but,unlike the Boer War, the available WW1 references show only those casualties who died and not those who were wounded as well. His attestation and service papers may be at the National Archives (formerly the PRO) at Kew (assuming he was in a British unit in WW1) but only 30% of WW1 soldiers' records survive. Regards, David uncharted_families@yahoo.com> wrote: Hello David; My GG Uncle served in both the Boer War and in WW1...his name was Edward (Ned) Braithwaite. I have absolutely no information on him other than he was hit with shrapnel and had one leg MUCH shorter than the other (I would assume after WW1) His boot had about a 5 inch sole to even him up. Would you be so kind to check for his name in your books and see if he is there anywhere?? I am in Ontario, Canada and mostly all of my relatives left in Britain are very elderly and would not bother with a computer. Thankyou, in advance Nova Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== Boer War Reading http://freespace.virgin.net/anglers.rest/BoerWarReading.htm ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

Hi there; I don't have any other information for his parents etc., that's why it's so hard to find any information on him. Sorry, Nova C & D Braithwaite <colinbra@telusplanet.net> wrote: Hi there, our family is also from Lancashire and we had a Thomas but don't recall a Ned ... but you never know as I am still researching lots of unchartered areas. Our g-g-grandfather had more children that we do not know about, so Ned could have been from that side. Can u tell me more about his parents names and theirs and so on. Desiree -----Original Message----- From: Uncharted Families [mailto:uncharted_families@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 4:07 PM To: BOER-WAR-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [BOER-WAR] DCM Hi Desiree, From what my Nan tells me, my GGUncle Ned was b. in Marton Moss, Lancashire, England. I was told he had an older brother named Tom and was a fair bit older than his wife (Christina) Tina Higgin b. Sept. 1890. Does any of this sound remotely familiar to you?? *fingers crossed* C & D Braithwaite wrote: Hi Nova, I happened to notice your posting ... which Braithwaite's are u from ? Desiree -----Original Message----- From: Uncharted Families [mailto:uncharted_families@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 3:14 PM To: BOER-WAR-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BOER-WAR] DCM Hello David; My GG Uncle served in both the Boer War and in WW1...his name was Edward (Ned) Braithwaite. I have absolutely no information on him other than he was hit with shrapnel and had one leg MUCH shorter than the other (I would assume after WW1) His boot had about a 5 inch sole to even him up. Would you be so kind to check for his name in your books and see if he is there anywhere?? I am in Ontario, Canada and mostly all of my relatives left in Britain are very elderly and would not bother with a computer. Thankyou, in advance Nova David Humphry wrote: Hi Lesley, It's not at all unusual for men to serve in the same regiment in the Boer War and WW1 with two different numbers. In most cases this is because they finished their stint as a regular soldier before 1914 and then volunteered again for WW1. In some cases of course men served in different regiments for the same reason. Some men also had different numbers in WW1 as a result of a change of numbering system in their units during the war. (e.g. In some cases a 4 figure number was changed to a 6 figure number). The despatches were published in the London Gazette so you could try a reference library for a microfilmed copy. Alternatively, I have details of all the Boer War despatches plus VC, DSO and DCM awards as they appeared in the LG in a reprint book called "South African War Honours and Awards 1899-1902 ". The IBSN number is 0-947898-74-3 and most booksellers (new or second hand) with a slant towards military history should either have a copy or be able to get one for you. Please bear in mind, however, that this mostly consists only of a list of names and units arranged by particular despatch. I found out about his wound in the casualty roll which I have as well as in my copy of "Recipients of the Distinguished Conduct Medal 1855-1919" by P.E. Abbott. ISBN number 0-903754-37-1. The only documentation you are likely to find at Kew are copies of the medal rolls which would confirm his medal and clasp entitlement. The Queen's South Africa Medal roll reference for the KOYLI is WO 100/194. The King's South Africa Medal rolls are are also in the series WO 100 but I don't know the individual regimental subseries references. His WW1 medal entitlement can now be obtained online from Kew. They charge �3.50 for a copy of a man's Medal Index Card. Regards, David Lesley Chivers wrote: Hi David and Margaret, thanks for your replies and interest in this. Thanks for all your info David, I have a couple more questions. He served in the KOYLI in both the Boer and Great War yet I have two different numbers, is this normal ? Can I get a copy of Lord Kitchener's despatch dated 8/3/1901, where would I find that ? I did know that he was wounded at Elandsdrift, although my fathers cousin no longer had the medals she had a newspaper article that told of his bravery at Elandsdrift. I suppose I would like something official to confirm this. I will write to the regimental museum to see if they can help me. I was wondering how you found out about it. I was thinking of going to Kew when I come to England this summer but by the sounds of it may be a lost cause. I thought some of the records had survived, what leads you to believe that these will not have. Thanks again, Lesley Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== Getting Started on Boer War Research? http://freespace.virgin.net/anglers.rest/BWInfo.htm ============================== Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. New content added every business day. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== List Admin Message http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm ============================== New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta rgetid=5429 ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== Boer War List Page http://freespace.virgin.net/anglers.rest/BoerWar.htm ============================== Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. New content added every business day. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Better first dates. More second dates. Yahoo! Personals ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== Boer War Links http://freespace.virgin.net/anglers.rest/BoerWarLinks.htm ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== Getting Started on Boer War Research? http://freespace.virgin.net/anglers.rest/BWInfo.htm ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun.

Hi Nova - He doesn't appear in any references I have. He was presumably wounded in WW1 but,unlike the Boer War, the available WW1 references show only those casualties who died and not those who were wounded as well. His attestation and service papers may be at the National Archives (formerly the PRO) at Kew (assuming he was in a British unit in WW1) but only 30% of WW1 soldiers' records survive. Regards, David uncharted_families@yahoo.com> wrote: Hello David; My GG Uncle served in both the Boer War and in WW1...his name was Edward (Ned) Braithwaite. I have absolutely no information on him other than he was hit with shrapnel and had one leg MUCH shorter than the other (I would assume after WW1) His boot had about a 5 inch sole to even him up. Would you be so kind to check for his name in your books and see if he is there anywhere?? I am in Ontario, Canada and mostly all of my relatives left in Britain are very elderly and would not bother with a computer. Thankyou, in advance Nova Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Hi Keiron, Thanks for your reply. I will check out the website you sent me. I understand my grandmother, ANNE KENNEDY, was not an army nurse but was employed locally. Do you have any idea where I might be able to find information on nurses who were locally employed at the British Military Hospital? Do you, perchance, know if the hospital you spoke of was/is in the city of Cork or elsewhere in Co. Cork? Cheers, Susan in Beautiful BC Keiron Spires wrote: >> Does anyone know of any hospital(s) in Cork used by the British Army >> in 1900, 1901...for these purposes? >> Does anyone know where I might find hospital records for my grandfather? >> Thank you in advance for any help you can give me, >> Susan in Beautiful BC > > > Hi Susan, > > there was a British Military Hospital in Cork at that time, staffed by > the Army Nursing Service. I do not have Anne Kennedy on any of my > lists of Army Nurses (see http://www.pcansr.net), but she may well > have been locally employed. > > cheers > Keiron > _________________________________________ > Keiron Spires > [T: 01276 503246 F: 01276 501460 M: 07973 308328] > > > ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== > Boer War Links > http://freespace.virgin.net/anglers.rest/BoerWarLinks.htm > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > >

Does anyone know if the British Army kept copies/originals of the 1901 Census of the men who were in the army at the time of the census? If so, does anyone know if this information is available and, if it is, where it is kept and whether or not it is available? Thanks, Susan in Beautiful BC

My grandfather, PATRICK CONNORS, was seriously wounded in the Boer War. He left South Africa on at hospital ship in November 28, 1900 and ended up in a hospital in Cork. While he was there he met his future wife ANNE KENNEDY, a nurse, and went through extensive rehab as his left shoulder had been blown off in South Africa. He was "Discharged on being found medically unfit for further service May 18, 1901." Does anyone know of any hospital(s) in Cork used by the British Army in 1900, 1901...for these purposes? Does anyone know where I might find hospital records for my grandfather? Thank you in advance for any help you can give me, Susan in Beautiful BC

On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 08:46:15 +0100 (BST), David Humphry <davidh9999@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >Unfortunately as he was killed in action (in WW1) his service records will not have survived. Are you sure about that? Whilst service records for those killed in the Boer War don't seem to have survived, some service records for those killed in WW1 *do* survive, mainly in the WO 363 Burnt Documents series. See, for example, the following extract from the National Archives' Leaflet entitled "British army soldiers' papers: First World War, 1914-1918" at http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=18 ============= 6. WO 363 : War Survivors and War Dead These service records relate to soldiers - killed in action. - died of wounds or disease without being discharged to pension. - demobilised at the end of the war. They are the 'burnt documents' that survived the bombing in 1940, and consist of about 20 to 25% of the original total. ============= As confirmation of the above, the following extract is taken from http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pathways/firstworldwar/service_records/sr_soldiers.htm ============= The 'Burnt Documents' The service records that survived the Arnside Street fire in September 1940 - the so-called 'Burnt Documents' - are located in the series WO 363. Due to fire and water damage, they are too delicate to be handled and are consequently only available to the public on microfilm. Microfilming the 'Burnt Documents' has been a huge project, for which The National Archives has received valuable financial support from the Heritage Lottery Fund. The microfilm catalogues, which are mostly arranged alphabetically by surname, cover soldiers who completed their service between 1914 and 1920. They might have been killed in action, discharged on medical grounds without a pension, or demobilised at the end of the war. ============= Forrest (a new poster to this list, but a regular on the Rootsweb GREATWAR list) -- Forrest Anderson forrest@military-researcher.com Edinburgh www.military-researcher.com Scotland

Hi there, our family is also from Lancashire and we had a Thomas but don't recall a Ned ... but you never know as I am still researching lots of unchartered areas. Our g-g-grandfather had more children that we do not know about, so Ned could have been from that side. Can u tell me more about his parents names and theirs and so on. Desiree -----Original Message----- From: Uncharted Families [mailto:uncharted_families@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 4:07 PM To: BOER-WAR-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [BOER-WAR] DCM Hi Desiree, From what my Nan tells me, my GGUncle Ned was b. in Marton Moss, Lancashire, England. I was told he had an older brother named Tom and was a fair bit older than his wife (Christina) Tina Higgin b. Sept. 1890. Does any of this sound remotely familiar to you?? *fingers crossed* C & D Braithwaite <colinbra@telusplanet.net> wrote: Hi Nova, I happened to notice your posting ... which Braithwaite's are u from ? Desiree -----Original Message----- From: Uncharted Families [mailto:uncharted_families@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 3:14 PM To: BOER-WAR-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BOER-WAR] DCM Hello David; My GG Uncle served in both the Boer War and in WW1...his name was Edward (Ned) Braithwaite. I have absolutely no information on him other than he was hit with shrapnel and had one leg MUCH shorter than the other (I would assume after WW1) His boot had about a 5 inch sole to even him up. Would you be so kind to check for his name in your books and see if he is there anywhere?? I am in Ontario, Canada and mostly all of my relatives left in Britain are very elderly and would not bother with a computer. Thankyou, in advance Nova David Humphry wrote: Hi Lesley, It's not at all unusual for men to serve in the same regiment in the Boer War and WW1 with two different numbers. In most cases this is because they finished their stint as a regular soldier before 1914 and then volunteered again for WW1. In some cases of course men served in different regiments for the same reason. Some men also had different numbers in WW1 as a result of a change of numbering system in their units during the war. (e.g. In some cases a 4 figure number was changed to a 6 figure number). The despatches were published in the London Gazette so you could try a reference library for a microfilmed copy. Alternatively, I have details of all the Boer War despatches plus VC, DSO and DCM awards as they appeared in the LG in a reprint book called "South African War Honours and Awards 1899-1902 ". The IBSN number is 0-947898-74-3 and most booksellers (new or second hand) with a slant towards military history should either have a copy or be able to get one for you. Please bear in mind, however, that this mostly consists only of a list of names and units arranged by particular despatch. I found out about his wound in the casualty roll which I have as well as in my copy of "Recipients of the Distinguished Conduct Medal 1855-1919" by P.E. Abbott. ISBN number 0-903754-37-1. The only documentation you are likely to find at Kew are copies of the medal rolls which would confirm his medal and clasp entitlement. The Queen's South Africa Medal roll reference for the KOYLI is WO 100/194. The King's South Africa Medal rolls are are also in the series WO 100 but I don't know the individual regimental subseries references. His WW1 medal entitlement can now be obtained online from Kew. They charge £3.50 for a copy of a man's Medal Index Card. Regards, David Lesley Chivers wrote: Hi David and Margaret, thanks for your replies and interest in this. Thanks for all your info David, I have a couple more questions. He served in the KOYLI in both the Boer and Great War yet I have two different numbers, is this normal ? Can I get a copy of Lord Kitchener's despatch dated 8/3/1901, where would I find that ? I did know that he was wounded at Elandsdrift, although my fathers cousin no longer had the medals she had a newspaper article that told of his bravery at Elandsdrift. I suppose I would like something official to confirm this. I will write to the regimental museum to see if they can help me. I was wondering how you found out about it. I was thinking of going to Kew when I come to England this summer but by the sounds of it may be a lost cause. I thought some of the records had survived, what leads you to believe that these will not have. Thanks again, Lesley Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== Getting Started on Boer War Research? http://freespace.virgin.net/anglers.rest/BWInfo.htm ============================== Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. New content added every business day. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== List Admin Message http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm ============================== New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta rgetid=5429 ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== Boer War List Page http://freespace.virgin.net/anglers.rest/BoerWar.htm ============================== Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. New content added every business day. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Better first dates. More second dates. Yahoo! Personals ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== Boer War Links http://freespace.virgin.net/anglers.rest/BoerWarLinks.htm ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx

Hi Nova, I happened to notice your posting ... which Braithwaite's are u from ? Desiree -----Original Message----- From: Uncharted Families [mailto:uncharted_families@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 3:14 PM To: BOER-WAR-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BOER-WAR] DCM Hello David; My GG Uncle served in both the Boer War and in WW1...his name was Edward (Ned) Braithwaite. I have absolutely no information on him other than he was hit with shrapnel and had one leg MUCH shorter than the other (I would assume after WW1) His boot had about a 5 inch sole to even him up. Would you be so kind to check for his name in your books and see if he is there anywhere?? I am in Ontario, Canada and mostly all of my relatives left in Britain are very elderly and would not bother with a computer. Thankyou, in advance Nova David Humphry <davidh9999@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Hi Lesley, It's not at all unusual for men to serve in the same regiment in the Boer War and WW1 with two different numbers. In most cases this is because they finished their stint as a regular soldier before 1914 and then volunteered again for WW1. In some cases of course men served in different regiments for the same reason. Some men also had different numbers in WW1 as a result of a change of numbering system in their units during the war. (e.g. In some cases a 4 figure number was changed to a 6 figure number). The despatches were published in the London Gazette so you could try a reference library for a microfilmed copy. Alternatively, I have details of all the Boer War despatches plus VC, DSO and DCM awards as they appeared in the LG in a reprint book called "South African War Honours and Awards 1899-1902 ". The IBSN number is 0-947898-74-3 and most booksellers (new or second hand) with a slant towards military history should either have a copy or be able to get one for you. Please bear in mind, however, that this mostly consists only of a list of names and units arranged by particular despatch. I found out about his wound in the casualty roll which I have as well as in my copy of "Recipients of the Distinguished Conduct Medal 1855-1919" by P.E. Abbott. ISBN number 0-903754-37-1. The only documentation you are likely to find at Kew are copies of the medal rolls which would confirm his medal and clasp entitlement. The Queen's South Africa Medal roll reference for the KOYLI is WO 100/194. The King's South Africa Medal rolls are are also in the series WO 100 but I don't know the individual regimental subseries references. His WW1 medal entitlement can now be obtained online from Kew. They charge £3.50 for a copy of a man's Medal Index Card. Regards, David Lesley Chivers wrote: Hi David and Margaret, thanks for your replies and interest in this. Thanks for all your info David, I have a couple more questions. He served in the KOYLI in both the Boer and Great War yet I have two different numbers, is this normal ? Can I get a copy of Lord Kitchener's despatch dated 8/3/1901, where would I find that ? I did know that he was wounded at Elandsdrift, although my fathers cousin no longer had the medals she had a newspaper article that told of his bravery at Elandsdrift. I suppose I would like something official to confirm this. I will write to the regimental museum to see if they can help me. I was wondering how you found out about it. I was thinking of going to Kew when I come to England this summer but by the sounds of it may be a lost cause. I thought some of the records had survived, what leads you to believe that these will not have. Thanks again, Lesley Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== Getting Started on Boer War Research? http://freespace.virgin.net/anglers.rest/BWInfo.htm ============================== Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. New content added every business day. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== List Admin Message http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm ============================== New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta rgetid=5429

Hi Desiree, From what my Nan tells me, my GGUncle Ned was b. in Marton Moss, Lancashire, England. I was told he had an older brother named Tom and was a fair bit older than his wife (Christina) Tina Higgin b. Sept. 1890. Does any of this sound remotely familiar to you?? *fingers crossed* C & D Braithwaite <colinbra@telusplanet.net> wrote: Hi Nova, I happened to notice your posting ... which Braithwaite's are u from ? Desiree -----Original Message----- From: Uncharted Families [mailto:uncharted_families@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 3:14 PM To: BOER-WAR-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BOER-WAR] DCM Hello David; My GG Uncle served in both the Boer War and in WW1...his name was Edward (Ned) Braithwaite. I have absolutely no information on him other than he was hit with shrapnel and had one leg MUCH shorter than the other (I would assume after WW1) His boot had about a 5 inch sole to even him up. Would you be so kind to check for his name in your books and see if he is there anywhere?? I am in Ontario, Canada and mostly all of my relatives left in Britain are very elderly and would not bother with a computer. Thankyou, in advance Nova David Humphry wrote: Hi Lesley, It's not at all unusual for men to serve in the same regiment in the Boer War and WW1 with two different numbers. In most cases this is because they finished their stint as a regular soldier before 1914 and then volunteered again for WW1. In some cases of course men served in different regiments for the same reason. Some men also had different numbers in WW1 as a result of a change of numbering system in their units during the war. (e.g. In some cases a 4 figure number was changed to a 6 figure number). The despatches were published in the London Gazette so you could try a reference library for a microfilmed copy. Alternatively, I have details of all the Boer War despatches plus VC, DSO and DCM awards as they appeared in the LG in a reprint book called "South African War Honours and Awards 1899-1902 ". The IBSN number is 0-947898-74-3 and most booksellers (new or second hand) with a slant towards military history should either have a copy or be able to get one for you. Please bear in mind, however, that this mostly consists only of a list of names and units arranged by particular despatch. I found out about his wound in the casualty roll which I have as well as in my copy of "Recipients of the Distinguished Conduct Medal 1855-1919" by P.E. Abbott. ISBN number 0-903754-37-1. The only documentation you are likely to find at Kew are copies of the medal rolls which would confirm his medal and clasp entitlement. The Queen's South Africa Medal roll reference for the KOYLI is WO 100/194. The King's South Africa Medal rolls are are also in the series WO 100 but I don't know the individual regimental subseries references. His WW1 medal entitlement can now be obtained online from Kew. They charge �3.50 for a copy of a man's Medal Index Card. Regards, David Lesley Chivers wrote: Hi David and Margaret, thanks for your replies and interest in this. Thanks for all your info David, I have a couple more questions. He served in the KOYLI in both the Boer and Great War yet I have two different numbers, is this normal ? Can I get a copy of Lord Kitchener's despatch dated 8/3/1901, where would I find that ? I did know that he was wounded at Elandsdrift, although my fathers cousin no longer had the medals she had a newspaper article that told of his bravery at Elandsdrift. I suppose I would like something official to confirm this. I will write to the regimental museum to see if they can help me. I was wondering how you found out about it. I was thinking of going to Kew when I come to England this summer but by the sounds of it may be a lost cause. I thought some of the records had survived, what leads you to believe that these will not have. Thanks again, Lesley Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== Getting Started on Boer War Research? http://freespace.virgin.net/anglers.rest/BWInfo.htm ============================== Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. New content added every business day. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== List Admin Message http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm ============================== New! Family Tree Maker 2005. 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Hello David; My GG Uncle served in both the Boer War and in WW1...his name was Edward (Ned) Braithwaite. I have absolutely no information on him other than he was hit with shrapnel and had one leg MUCH shorter than the other (I would assume after WW1) His boot had about a 5 inch sole to even him up. Would you be so kind to check for his name in your books and see if he is there anywhere?? I am in Ontario, Canada and mostly all of my relatives left in Britain are very elderly and would not bother with a computer. Thankyou, in advance Nova David Humphry <davidh9999@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Hi Lesley, It's not at all unusual for men to serve in the same regiment in the Boer War and WW1 with two different numbers. In most cases this is because they finished their stint as a regular soldier before 1914 and then volunteered again for WW1. In some cases of course men served in different regiments for the same reason. Some men also had different numbers in WW1 as a result of a change of numbering system in their units during the war. (e.g. In some cases a 4 figure number was changed to a 6 figure number). The despatches were published in the London Gazette so you could try a reference library for a microfilmed copy. Alternatively, I have details of all the Boer War despatches plus VC, DSO and DCM awards as they appeared in the LG in a reprint book called "South African War Honours and Awards 1899-1902 ". The IBSN number is 0-947898-74-3 and most booksellers (new or second hand) with a slant towards military history should either have a copy or be able to get one for you. Please bear in mind, however, that this mostly consists only of a list of names and units arranged by particular despatch. I found out about his wound in the casualty roll which I have as well as in my copy of "Recipients of the Distinguished Conduct Medal 1855-1919" by P.E. Abbott. ISBN number 0-903754-37-1. The only documentation you are likely to find at Kew are copies of the medal rolls which would confirm his medal and clasp entitlement. The Queen's South Africa Medal roll reference for the KOYLI is WO 100/194. The King's South Africa Medal rolls are are also in the series WO 100 but I don't know the individual regimental subseries references. His WW1 medal entitlement can now be obtained online from Kew. They charge �3.50 for a copy of a man's Medal Index Card. Regards, David Lesley Chivers wrote: Hi David and Margaret, thanks for your replies and interest in this. Thanks for all your info David, I have a couple more questions. He served in the KOYLI in both the Boer and Great War yet I have two different numbers, is this normal ? Can I get a copy of Lord Kitchener's despatch dated 8/3/1901, where would I find that ? I did know that he was wounded at Elandsdrift, although my fathers cousin no longer had the medals she had a newspaper article that told of his bravery at Elandsdrift. I suppose I would like something official to confirm this. I will write to the regimental museum to see if they can help me. I was wondering how you found out about it. I was thinking of going to Kew when I come to England this summer but by the sounds of it may be a lost cause. I thought some of the records had survived, what leads you to believe that these will not have. Thanks again, Lesley Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== Getting Started on Boer War Research? http://freespace.virgin.net/anglers.rest/BWInfo.htm ============================== Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. New content added every business day. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Hi Margret - Unfortunately he doesn't appear in the casualty roll which also shows men died of disease (in SA or at sea), wounded and taken POW. Most soldiers served 7 years with the colours (full time) and 5 years with the reserve (reverting to civilian life but liable for immediate recall to the army in time of war). Many such reservists were called up for the Boer War. It's possible that he served in South Africa in the early part of the war but was discharged 'time expired' and after finishing his 7+5 years stint. In this case he may have returned to the UK or taken his discharge in SA. Either way he may have died of causes unconnected with the war by 1901. Alternatively, he may have been one of the many men invalided home due to sickness (usually enteric - aka typhoid) and died in the UK before or after discharge. Such casualties aren't shown on the casualty roll. Regards, David Margret Schultz <wain10@worldnet.att.net> wrote: Thank you for that information David, I am sure there are a lot more people out there will find it as informative as I did. My ancestor's name was JOHN COWLEY (middle name YORK) He was in the 1st Division of the Field Artillery, of the Royal Artillery. He was a gunner. In 1891 he was based in Aldershot. That is what I have on him. We believe he was probably killed in action because his son- born 1893 at Woolwich, was, by 1901 residing in All Saints Orphanage in Lewisham. We did not know of his marriage or to whom he was married. Our family never knew John he was my grandmother's brother and they were separated at a very early age. Margaret, in- now it is sunny, Palmyra Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Hi Lesley, It's not at all unusual for men to serve in the same regiment in the Boer War and WW1 with two different numbers. In most cases this is because they finished their stint as a regular soldier before 1914 and then volunteered again for WW1. In some cases of course men served in different regiments for the same reason. Some men also had different numbers in WW1 as a result of a change of numbering system in their units during the war. (e.g. In some cases a 4 figure number was changed to a 6 figure number). The despatches were published in the London Gazette so you could try a reference library for a microfilmed copy. Alternatively, I have details of all the Boer War despatches plus VC, DSO and DCM awards as they appeared in the LG in a reprint book called "South African War Honours and Awards 1899-1902 ". The IBSN number is 0-947898-74-3 and most booksellers (new or second hand) with a slant towards military history should either have a copy or be able to get one for you. Please bear in mind, however, that this mostly consists only of a list of names and units arranged by particular despatch. I found out about his wound in the casualty roll which I have as well as in my copy of "Recipients of the Distinguished Conduct Medal 1855-1919" by P.E. Abbott. ISBN number 0-903754-37-1. The only documentation you are likely to find at Kew are copies of the medal rolls which would confirm his medal and clasp entitlement. The Queen's South Africa Medal roll reference for the KOYLI is WO 100/194. The King's South Africa Medal rolls are are also in the series WO 100 but I don't know the individual regimental subseries references. His WW1 medal entitlement can now be obtained online from Kew. They charge £3.50 for a copy of a man's Medal Index Card. Regards, David Lesley Chivers <l.chivers@a-m-u.net> wrote: Hi David and Margaret, thanks for your replies and interest in this. Thanks for all your info David, I have a couple more questions. He served in the KOYLI in both the Boer and Great War yet I have two different numbers, is this normal ? Can I get a copy of Lord Kitchener's despatch dated 8/3/1901, where would I find that ? I did know that he was wounded at Elandsdrift, although my fathers cousin no longer had the medals she had a newspaper article that told of his bravery at Elandsdrift. I suppose I would like something official to confirm this. I will write to the regimental museum to see if they can help me. I was wondering how you found out about it. I was thinking of going to Kew when I come to England this summer but by the sounds of it may be a lost cause. I thought some of the records had survived, what leads you to believe that these will not have. Thanks again, Lesley Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Hi David and Margaret, thanks for your replies and interest in this. Thanks for all your info David, I have a couple more questions. He served in the KOYLI in both the Boer and Great War yet I have two different numbers, is this normal ? Can I get a copy of Lord Kitchener's despatch dated 8/3/1901, where would I find that ? I did know that he was wounded at Elandsdrift, although my fathers cousin no longer had the medals she had a newspaper article that told of his bravery at Elandsdrift. I suppose I would like something official to confirm this. I will write to the regimental museum to see if they can help me. I was wondering how you found out about it. I was thinking of going to Kew when I come to England this summer but by the sounds of it may be a lost cause. I thought some of the records had survived, what leads you to believe that these will not have. Thanks again, Lesley

Hello Lesley,In my publication,Recipients of the Distinguished Conduct Medal.I have found a Private Miller. service No 5439 of the K.O.Y.L.I.London Gazette 27.9.01.A.O.15/02;Wounded 3.12.00.Elands Drift.My grandfather Colour Sergeant Munson was awarded the D.C.M.serving with the Essex Reg.At Bloemfontein.1n 1900.I found the history of his award in detail at the Essex Regiment Museum in Chelmsford.Essex.The KOYLI must also have a Military Museum.Good luck with your search Regards. Bob Munson. --- Lesley Chivers <l.chivers@a-m-u.net> wrote: > I hope someone can help me with this query. I > believe my great grandfather received the DCM in the > Boer War. He served in the King's Own Yorkshire > Light Infantry. Where can I find documentation as to > why he received the medal. I have found reference to > it in the London Gazette (September 27, 1901) but it > does not give any details. Unfortunately we no > longer have the medal as it was sold by an aunt. > What are the chances of recovering this medal, where > would one begin ? His name was Private George > Miller. He survived the war and went on to serve in > the Great War being k.i.a. on 15th October 1915. > Thanks for any help > > Lesley Chivers > > > ==== BOER-WAR Mailing List ==== > List Admin Message > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so > much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > >

Hi again Margret - The army established and maintained a regular soldier's attestation and service papers for the sole purpose of tracking and calculating his eligibilty for pension. A man who died on service by definition did not live to receive his army pension and the authorities officially destroyed his papers as they were no longer officially required. The papers of men who survived the Boer War but who later served in WW1 were sometimes bundled in with their WW1 papers but again (and also bearing in mind that 70% of WW1 papers were destroyed in the Blitz of WW2 anyway) they would not have survived if the man died. This applies to regular soldiers of the Boer War period but for example the Imperial Yeomanry papers survive almost intact including those of men who died in the Boer War. This is because these were just short term enlistment papers for the duration of the war (or less) and had nothing to do with pensions. I'm afraid therefore that if your great uncle was killed in the Boer War his papers will not have survived. If you give me his name I'll check on the casualty roll for you. Regards, David Margret Schultz <wain10@worldnet.att.net> wrote: David, Why wouldn't records survive if he was killed in action? My gr uncle was- we believe- killed in the BOER War. Does this mean that it is not possible to find at Kew Gardens any records of his service? Quite a shock. Thank you for the information though. Margaret, in frosty Palmyra. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Thank you for that information David, I am sure there are a lot more people out there will find it as informative as I did. My ancestor's name was JOHN COWLEY (middle name YORK) He was in the 1st Division of the Field Artillery, of the Royal Artillery. He was a gunner. In 1891 he was based in Aldershot. That is what I have on him. We believe he was probably killed in action because his son- born 1893 at Woolwich, was, by 1901 residing in All Saints Orphanage in Lewisham. We did not know of his marriage or to whom he was married. Our family never knew John he was my grandmother's brother and they were separated at a very early age. Margaret, in- now it is sunny, Palmyra

David, Why wouldn't records survive if he was killed in action? My gr uncle was- we believe- killed in the BOER War. Does this mean that it is not possible to find at Kew Gardens any records of his service? Quite a shock. Thank you for the information though. Margaret, in frosty Palmyra.

Hi Margret & Lesley, Unfortunately as he was killed in action (in WW1) his service records will not have survived. Further to Lesley's additional query the chances of re-acquiring the DCM are fairly slim but not impossible. It depends whether it ended up in a private collection or a museum. If it's in a museum there's no chance but if the collector can be located there is a chance. Don't forget that he would also have received a Queen's South Africa Medal (and possibly a King's SA Medal as well) plus at least two (very possibly three) WW1 medals. Medal News magazine has a medal tracker service in which people looking for the medal(s) of a particular man can advertise the details. It costs £5 for two issues of the magazine but a better bet is their website service which costs £5 for as long as it takes to find it/them or the seeker gives up. Their website is www.tokenpublishing.com . Regards, David Margret Schultz <wain10@worldnet.att.net> wrote: Dear Lesley Do you have your gr-grandfather's service records from the Archives at Kew Gardens? Maybe what you are looking for would be in there. Margaret, in cold Palmyra Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com