This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/BF.2ADIAE/5003.3.1.1.1.1.1 Message Board Post: I agree with your premise, Joan. However, I have experienced difficulty getting replies or assistance from the RootsWeb Message Boards support staff in recent months after emailing them short, clear , concise requests for information, guidance, and help on a couple policies and technical matters. Of approximately four requests for assistance or knowledge in the last 36 months, two have never been answered and the other two arrived as long as a month after my request. I had no reason to believe another request for help at this time would be handled differently. I will be placing a request to this board's administrator to remove the entirety of "at issue" postings from the last few days. It was always my intention to do so after I received opinions, thoughts, comments, tips, and guidance from admins more knowledgeable and experienced than I. I have received the info and help I needed from various admins, including you, Joan, and I thank you and everyone else who contributed to my understanding of board administration. Bree

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/BF.2ADIAE/5002.3.1.1.1.3.1.1.1.1.1 Message Board Post: <<It is editable for the same reason posts are moveable. >> I could see that, if it were *only* editable in admin mode - like the "move" feature is only available to admins. Just as the "Message" box is not editable by admins, if changing the subject **by the POSTER** was not allowed, it would not be an option. For example. THIS thread, is not "thank you for your thoughts" any longer. Another example. Query for information on John and Jane Doe has 7 replies by local volunteers. Your way would be like this with post content in [brackets]: --John and Jane Doe lived in Whatsit County 1880-1915........[query] --** Re: John and Jane Doe lived in Whatsit County 1880-1915........[obituary] --** Re: John and Jane Doe lived in Whatsit County 1880-1915........[obituary] --** Re: John and Jane Doe lived in Whatsit County 1880-1915........[marriage announcement] --** Re: John and Jane Doe lived in Whatsit County 1880-1915........[cemetery listing] --** Re: John and Jane Doe lived in Whatsit County 1880-1915........[obituary] --** Re: John and Jane Doe lived in Whatsit County 1880-1915........[obituary] --** Re: John and Jane Doe lived in Whatsit County 1880-1915........[newspaper article] However, the following is more informative to ALL users: --John and Jane Doe lived in Whatsit County 1880-1915 --**John Doe (1862-1912) --**Jane Roe Doe (1865-1915) --**Mary Doe and John Smith --**Doe family in the local cemetery --**Mary Doe Smith (1882-1941) --**John Smith (1869-1931) --**John Doe owned "Whatsit Company" Some of us are lucky enough to have volunteers who look up MORE than the original poster asked for (i.e. everything they can find on that family) and DO change the subject to reflect the content of the post. I would HATE to see every one of those replies have "Re: The Original Subject". Brynne

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/BF.2ADIAE/5003.3.1.1.1.1 Message Board Post: Bree- The boards admins board and corresponding list are for the use of admins to help other admins with administrative issues in dealing with their boards. It isn't intended for picking apart our posters or discussing sensitive issues. At one time the boards admins mailing list was unarchived so that admins could discuss issues in private but over the years that wasn't working well because helpful replies explaining how to execute the various functions of adminning the boards were not available for anyone to search and find. So a few years ago the list began being archived. If you have any issue involving RootsWeb that requires private handling -- the RootsWeb HelpDesk would be the place to take such an issue where the matter can be discussed discreetly. Joan

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/BF.2ADIAE/5003.3.1.1.1 Message Board Post: Oh, Marilyn, that is a brilliant tip! It would never have occurred to me to do that, and it makes all the sense in the world to me. I will begin implementing that immediately. I agree entirely with your perceptions. Your concerns mirror mine, but I needed to hear that from other people...and be certain I am not abusing my administrative privileges by moving, deleting, or otherwise making some changes to the posts. One thing I would like to know, if you know, is why this Administrators Boards message board is not "invisible" to those who are not administrators. In my humble opinion there should be a "for admin eyes only" board on which admins might make inquiries about....let's call them..."unusual" behaviors on their boards. I, myself, encountered an "Internet Stalker" a couple years ago as a direct result of my being the administrator of a particular board. Fortunately I was successful in resolving the matter without intervention from Ancestry officials, my ISP, or anyone else....but it did take me several weeks to grasp what was happening and take appropriate steps to increase my Internet security, my Ancestry security and privacy, and so forth. One question I would ask to an "admin eyes only" board is whether other admins have encountered...let's call them..."unhinged" behaviors on their boards. I do not mean postings that contain foul language, indecency, or other extremely obvious problems that are clearly covered by Ancestry's posting rules. I mean behavior by an individual who, for one reason or another, is not "operating on all thrusters" or who is using our genealogy boards (seemingly correctly and legitimately, at first) with ulterior motives in mind -- an example of which was the "stalker" guy a couple years ago. Where do admins go to discuss these sorts of issues clearly and honestly (without opening themselves up to legal problems) and to get knowledgeable information, advice, and/or assistance from the Ancestry.com authorities within the Ancestry corporation? A board that is visible to all users of Ancestry is not "private" space for admins to air concerns or reports of troubling matters. Bree

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/BF.2ADIAE/5002.3.1.1.1.3.1.1.1.1 Message Board Post: It is editable for the same reason posts are moveable. If you plan to move a reply to a new position starting a new thread on the same board--you need to be able to edit the subject and remove the "Re" which would become misleading after a post is moved to start a new thread. Joan

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/BF.2ADIAE/5002.3.1.1.1.3.1.1.1 Message Board Post: <<Ancestry and Rootsweb *programmed* Re into the reply feature>> However, we also need to remember when we click reply, the Subject field is **editable** and can therefore be changed. There is nothing in the FAQ or Rules that states or even *implies* the "Re:" MUST be left in the Subject. If that were the case, surely the programmers would have made it non-editable. Brynne

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/BF.2ADIAE/5002.3.1.1.1.3.1.1 Message Board Post: Your post is one I would expect from a new poster, not a board Admin. Several of us have given very clear and useful reasons for keeping "Re" as part of the subject in a thread. We are trying to explain how this little abbreviation helps Board users -- and THEY are who we do this volunteer work for, to make their reading of the Boards easier. Since you don't choose to believe other Admins, nor believe why both Ancestry and Rootsweb *programmed* Re into the reply feature, maybe you should post a message to the Rootsweb help desk or ask Staff. Respectfully, Judy

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/BF.2ADIAE/5002.3.1.1.1.2.1 Message Board Post: Your technique on the repetitious "Re" matter is terrific, Judy. I had never seen that exact method before and I like it very, very much. I'm very familiar with the other issues you mention, such as what "Re" means or what constitutes proper grammar, syntax, and business English. I'm also very familiar with various jounalistic styles and with Ancestry's software, so I'm not encountering difficulties in those arenas. My original question about my difficulty viewing attachments I had made to the Links & Announcements area has been answered/solved, and I will be using the advice and assistance that's been offered to me. My first experiment with attaching files to the L&A section did not turn out as I had expected or planned, so I will be making some revisions in the near future that will enhance the visibility and usability of those attachments. Always fun to try new things to add dimension and valuable information to a board! Thank you for showing me your method of handling Subject lines in a threaded conversation. You took a little twist on the matter that I find very logical and useful. Bree

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/BF.2ADIAE/5003.3.1.1 Message Board Post: Bree, I'm not an employee of rootsweb or ancestry, but just a volunteer like yourself. I only have about 5 yrs. experience in adminning my 38 boards, but I've learned a lot from reading about the problems encountered by other Board Admins. and how they solve them. So far, I've been lucky enough to not have any problems with board posters. Your poster might stop posting so many posts, once they realize that you're deleting posts that have no genealogical value, are off topic or just idle chit-chat or complaining. I just looked through the first few pages of messages and noticed that this poster seems to have kind of "taken over" and, in my opinion, it can be a "turn off" to other posters who have legitimate posts but don't get replies because this "problem poster" is getting all the attention and kind of taking advantage of the situation. I don't think ancestry/rootsweb will take away your admin. duties because of this person's complaint. I had to answer one complaint against me several years ago and after I explained the details of the situation and my reasoning, rootsweb was very supportive and the matter was dropped. My situation concerned a mailing list, that I admin. and I had kept notes of the situation and correspondence with the complainant which helped me to reconstruct the details. One little tip: I remember one board admin. suggested, when deleting messages, to write in the Surname line the reason you're deleting the message and I do that all the time now......something you might want to consider once you start cleaning up the extraneous messages. Good Luck, Marilyn

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/BF.2ADIAE/5002.3.1.1.1.3.1 Message Board Post: "then it stands to reason " Your one-eyed squirrel view of reason does not a hard-and-fast rule make. Just as I prophesied, your "almost too basic" rules exist only in your mind. Let me ask another way. "Who ya gonna call" to report this insidious malfeasance by those who would dare to displace a "Re:"? What will be their punishment? Hear ye, hear ye, and all that rot.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/BF.2ADIAE/5002.3.1.1.1.3 Message Board Post: See the Message Board FAQ for replying to a post. It explains how a reply establishes a thread--if you change the topic of the thread, then it stands to reason you need to start a new thread and a new topic/subject. Otherwise, the thread and subject of that thread should remain the same and the Re: in the subject establishes the fact that this is a reply and not an original message in the thread. Gee, that seemed almost too basic to have to include in my previous reply. Joan

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/BF.2ADIAE/5002.3.1.1.1.1.1 Message Board Post: So let me get this straight, Digsforbonz: because you can't answer my question, you choose to be rude and call me names instead? Gosh, that sounds surprisingly like TROLL behavior. I asked where to find these "rules" you all keep quoting like bible verses .... if these rules do exist, it shouldn't be hard to give me the answer, should it?

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/BF.2ADIAE/5002.3.1.1.1.2 Message Board Post: "Re" means "in regards to" or "regarding (what was written before). In this sense, leaving "Re" on the subject lines of replies makes very good sense. We don't need a "Rule" to follow standard business practice and standard practice English grammar practices. In the sense of English grammar, we are following an English grammar rule to use or leave "Re" in replies. This is the main reason Boards have this little feature programmed in. It has come to mean "in reply to" more in internet usage (Reply= "Re"--ply). Maybe this is where people get confused about the Re on Boards. I feel it is appropriate to add additional explanation AFTER THE ROOT part of a subject line. For example:: The 1st message says: Norfolk, VA McClures -- and they generally ask if others have a McClure family in that area. The "root" part of the subject is Norfolk, VA McClures No reason to keep saying Re: Norfolk, VA McClures ... ad naseum So my board might look like this (assuming all posts have in common Norfolk VA + McClure families)::: Norfolk, VA McClures re: Norfolk, VA McClures - Mary McClure married John Apple re: Norfolk, VA McClures - John Smith McClure b. 1812 re: Norfolk, VA McClures - date of 1st McCkure settlement re: Norfolk, VA McClures - Mary McClure Apple's children re: Norfolk, VA McClures - sorry, don't think we connect If a thread can be broken without losing the context of the other posts, I might try to break some threads. If the topic changes wildly, and it's possible to break the thread, I do break those. Judy

> You are an employee of Ancestry or Rootsweb? I assume so. > Bree Bree, None of us are employed by Ancestry or Rootsweb. All just Admins like yourself. Judy

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/BF.2ADIAE/5002.3.1.1.1 Message Board Post: I'm constantly amazed that a group of *genealogists*, of all people, can jam their beliefs, spout their dogma, and generally blow a lot of hot air, without providing any DOCUMENTATION for their dictates. Where, Oh Exalted Superior Genealogists and Board Goddesses, has Ancestry documented this "proper thing to do"?

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/BF.2ADIAE/5002.3.1.1 Message Board Post: Bree- If the subject of a reply changes to a new topic where you would prefer a new subject--and if you no longer feel the subject of "Re: previous subject" fits, then the proper thing to do would be the break off the post and start a new thread--but not rename it and leave it in a thread where it doesn't belong. Joan

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/BF.2ADIAE/5002.3.1 Message Board Post: Hannah, I appreciate your thoughts on the "Re" matter. I understand your point of view and your reasons. Some years ago when I was a relatively new admin I held the same point of view. Several years ago my point of view shifted after observing the pros and cons of both Subject line systems. As a professional writer, editor, and documentation analyst, I observed a considerable improvement in the usability and reader/poster traffic on my boards by switching over to my current method. If you would like me to elaborate on my observations and experimentation, I'll be happy to share them with you in a future posting. To the best of my knowledge there is no rule requiring me to leave the Subject line of conversation threads intact, leaving rows of Re's and restated subjects. If there is such a rule, I definitely need to be corrected so that I abide by it. Thank you for bringing to my attention that I may have missed, misread, or misinterpreted administrator rules. I will follow up on this and share whatever I learn with all of you who are board admins. Bree

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/BF.2ADIAE/5003.5.1 Message Board Post: Judy, thank you for taking your time to reply with your thoughts and recommendations. As I said in a reply to another admins' thoughts and recommendations, the only reason I haven't taken the actions that you and she suggest is that I wanted to be certain that these actions by an admin are normal and acceptable...and will not jeopardize my admin privileges. I have had 25-30 boards for several years, and this is the first problem ***of its kind*** that I've had, and I don't want to lose my admin privileges for my RR board or any other board over complaints of "administrator abuse" or some such. The posting rules and FAQs are not as clear-cut to me as they seem to be to you, which is why I wanted input from other admins. The "poster in question" WILL file a complaint with Ancestry about the actions I intend to take, and I wanted to be sure I have the backing and support of Ancestry's rules and personnel beforehand. I thank you for your experience and guidance. Bree

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/BF.2ADIAE/5003.3.1 Message Board Post: Marilyn, I agree with you entirely. Although this was my first use of the Boards Administrators message board to communicate with other admins, I am a veteran admin who has held 25-30 boards for several years, and I have been successful in the past in resolving all board problems. I wanted guidance, like yours, in this particular situation because I needed the support from other admins to carry though on my own instincts (which are exactly the steps you suggest) and know that Ancestry.com will NOT take away my admin privileges for taking action that "the poster in question" WILL (I guarantee you) file a complaint about with you or Ancestry/Rootsweb message board staff. I love my boards and I take exquisitely good care of them, and I did not want to risk my losing my admin privileges over what will be, for me, the first "drastic" steps I've ever had to take with a board. Thank you for replying and for giving me the knowledge and support that will allow me to do exactly wh! at I have "felt" needs to be done. That is precisely what I needed. You are an employee of Ancestry or Rootsweb? I assume so. Bree

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/BF.2ADIAE/5002.3 Message Board Post: Hello Bree While looking at your board, I noticed that very few responses have the "Re:" in front of them and that the subject line of each message seems to be different, whether or not it's a new thread. Then I noticed that you've also removed the "Re:" from the messages you posted here. Is there a particular reason that you do this? If you change the subject line of each post in a single thread and remove all of the Re's, it makes it extremely difficult to see that threads exist, especially when looking at posts in date order. In fact, it makes it look like each post is a new one with no follow-up messages. I'm fairly new to board administration, but it's my understanding that the subject line in a thread should only be changed when the actual subject of that thread has been changed. I don't think it's supposed to be changed on each post to act as a synopsis of that post. I took a look at many other boards and I don't see anyone else making these changes. My personal plea to you: Please leave the Re's and don't change the subject line of each post. This will make it easier for board users to follow threads. Thank you. Hannah