Truthfully, at this point, I'll have to say no...however, I just made the connection to the data fairly recently, and haven't finished (do we ever?) entering what I've found into my data. I'll say that Alfred was the youngest son of Carr Allen, born in Grayson Co, VA. Carr Allen moved on to Grayson Co, KY, but many of the children moved to other places, including Letcher Co, KY (where my grandfather was born), Carroll Co, VA, Lee Co, VA, etc. ALL these areas are Melungeon "heavy", so we may have a tie with each other in that line. Oh, yes, my ggrandfather had an uncle & 1st cousin executed in Richmond, also (they were members of the Appalachian Allen Gang...somewhat notorious around the Civil War era). Should I find a tie, I'll certainly let you know! Many of us on this site are tied together in one line or another. Mike IBSSG > [Original Message] > From: Telecom Girl <telecomgirl911@hotmail.com> > To: <BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-L@rootsweb.com> > Date: 5/8/2002 9:34:45 AM > Subject: Re: [BSChat] Re: Melungeons/Black Dutch > > Michael - > I am researching my Melungeon Allens too!! > I couldn't find your Allen in my tree, or the Cornetts - > My Allens came from Scott Co. VA and moved to Rockcastle Co. Ky > > Sound familiar? > > Cammie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Shuler Michael" <grinch42@mindspring.com> > To: <BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 12:00 AM > Subject: Re: [BSChat] Re: Melungeons/Black Dutch > > > > Right, Jan! On my mother's side I have a couple of instances of > > Melungeon claiming something else...My mother's maiden name was Pruitt (an > > Irish name)...when I asked her why her brothers & my cousins were so dark > > complected, she looked at me with her blue eyes and said "hush...we're > > Black Irish!" Didn't find out until she had been in her grave for several > > years the truth...Melungeon. Likewise, she had a grandmother whose maiden > > name was Nelson (English, right?). Wrong! My mother said "oh...she was an > > Indian Princess!" What a crock! > > On my father's side there's the Allen clan (which should have been my last > > name). Sounds English or French. But, the Appalachian Allen clan (mine) > > is Melungeon. My ggrandfather (Alfred Lewis Allen) couldn't marry my > > ggrandmother because he looked like a FPC (Free Person of Color), and my > > ggrandmother was a blue-eyed blonde of primarily German heritage. > > Later discovered that even that wasn't completely true...her grandmother > > had been a Cornett (supposedly a corruption of Canute, a Danish king of > > England). Cornett was probably ORIGINALLY of that derivation, but the > ones > > in SW Virginia are another family of Melungeons! > > Guess I could go on and on with my own heritage, but that's enough! Just > > goes to show that you have to really get in there & dig. Sometimes it's > > even possible to interview people from other families who knew the family > > you're researching, and can give you a decent physical description. That > > combined with the part of the country is usually the only "proof" you're > > going to find, due to the Melungeons attempting to hide for centuries in > > order to avoid being discriminated against. > > Thank heaven racial pride has displaced the old discrimination to a large > > extent! > > > > Mike > > IBSSG > > > > > > > [Original Message] > > > From: J. Garland <zippywebgenie@hotmail.com> > > > To: <BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Date: 5/8/2002 7:33:27 AM > > > Subject: Re: [BSChat] Re: Melungeons/Black Dutch > > > > > > > > > Well, Mike will know more about this than I, I haven't heard so much of > > > "Black Irish" in respect to the Melungeons, I sure it's possible, > though. > > > They usually claimed association with just about anything else as a > > reason > > > for their exotic, darker look, often contrasted with blue eyes. There > > have > > > been a lot of years when it wasn't good to claim a family connection to > > > either the NA peoples or to Blacks, so, depending on the time frame and > > > location, I'm sure they came up with various stories to protect > > themselves > > > from the ignorant people around them. As a group, they've had a pretty > > rough > > > time here. There are still those who don't want it known that they're > > part > > > Melungeon--the first website I saw about them, the website owner had > > > received threats. He had mentioned specific surnames in association with > > > Melungeon families, and some people didn't like that. There's still > > plenty > > > of ignorance to go around, looks like. > > > > > > Jan G. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > > From: "Telecom Girl" <telecomgirl911@hotmail.com> > > > Reply-To: BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-L@rootsweb.com > > > To: BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-L@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: [BSChat] Re: BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-D Digest V02 #696 > > > Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 07:42:37 -0500 > > > > > > I think the kind of census information I was looking for would be the > > "black > > > Irish" race. I have heard this was commonly used by Melungeon families. > > > > > > Cammie > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: <LVLYLADY12@aol.com> > > > To: <BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 2:52 PM > > > Subject: [BSChat] Re: BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-D Digest V02 #696 > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 5/7/02 9:37:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > > > BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I find this very interesting - we have all the "Melungeon" > > > Characteristics > > > > > in my family - but I can't find any census type evidence listing > > anyone > > > as > > > > > anything but white. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Telecom girl, I don't think the Melungeons were listed on the census > as > > > > "Melungeon" > > > > There was so much prejudice through the years, they tried to hide it > > and > > > > listed themselves as white. Now of course that has done away with. > > > There > > > > are several books and websites about Melungeons that could probably > > give > > > you > > > > a lot of information. It is a fascinating subject. > > > > > > > > Laurelyn > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== BLACKSHEEP-CHAT Mailing List ==== > > > > Unsubscribe from the list: > > > > > > > > > > Mailto:Blacksheep-Chat-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe&body=unsub > > > scribe > > > > > > > > ============================== > > > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > > records, > > > go to: > > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== BLACKSHEEP-CHAT Mailing List ==== > > > Unsubscribe from the list: > > > > > > Mailto:Blacksheep-Chat-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe&body=unsub > > scribe > > > > > > ============================== > > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > records, > > go > > > to: > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > > > http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > ==== BLACKSHEEP-CHAT Mailing List ==== > > > Unsubscribe from the list: > > > > > > Mailto:Blacksheep-Chat-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe&body=unsub > > scribe > > > > > > ============================== > > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > records, > > go to: > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > --- Shuler Michael > > --- grinch42@mindspring.com > > --- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet. > > > > > > > > ==== BLACKSHEEP-CHAT Mailing List ==== > > Creative use of your delete key is encouraged. If you disagree with the > subject, CHANGE the subject. > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, > go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > ==== BLACKSHEEP-CHAT Mailing List ==== > Unsubscribe from the list: > Mailto:Blacksheep-Chat-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe&body=unsub scribe > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 --- Shuler Michael --- grinch42@mindspring.com --- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.
I have a Hezekiah "Carr" Allen in my line , born 1859 in VA - could this be your Carr ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shuler Michael" <grinch42@mindspring.com> To: <BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 10:44 AM Subject: Re: [BSChat] Re: Melungeons/Black Dutch > Truthfully, at this point, I'll have to say no...however, I just made the > connection to the data fairly recently, and haven't finished (do we ever?) > entering what I've found into my data. I'll say that Alfred was the > youngest son of Carr Allen, born in Grayson Co, VA. Carr Allen moved on to > Grayson Co, KY, but many of the children moved to other places, including > Letcher Co, KY (where my grandfather was born), Carroll Co, VA, Lee Co, VA, > etc. ALL these areas are Melungeon "heavy", so we may have a tie with each > other in that line. Oh, yes, my ggrandfather had an uncle & 1st cousin > executed in Richmond, also (they were members of the Appalachian Allen > Gang...somewhat notorious around the Civil War era). > Should I find a tie, I'll certainly let you know! Many of us on this site > are tied together in one line or another. > > Mike > IBSSG > > > [Original Message] > > From: Telecom Girl <telecomgirl911@hotmail.com> > > To: <BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-L@rootsweb.com> > > Date: 5/8/2002 9:34:45 AM > > Subject: Re: [BSChat] Re: Melungeons/Black Dutch > > > > Michael - > > I am researching my Melungeon Allens too!! > > I couldn't find your Allen in my tree, or the Cornetts - > > My Allens came from Scott Co. VA and moved to Rockcastle Co. Ky > > > > Sound familiar? > > > > Cammie > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Shuler Michael" <grinch42@mindspring.com> > > To: <BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 12:00 AM > > Subject: Re: [BSChat] Re: Melungeons/Black Dutch > > > > > > > Right, Jan! On my mother's side I have a couple of instances of > > > Melungeon claiming something else...My mother's maiden name was Pruitt > (an > > > Irish name)...when I asked her why her brothers & my cousins were so > dark > > > complected, she looked at me with her blue eyes and said "hush...we're > > > Black Irish!" Didn't find out until she had been in her grave for > several > > > years the truth...Melungeon. Likewise, she had a grandmother whose > maiden > > > name was Nelson (English, right?). Wrong! My mother said "oh...she was > an > > > Indian Princess!" What a crock! > > > On my father's side there's the Allen clan (which should have been my > last > > > name). Sounds English or French. But, the Appalachian Allen clan > (mine) > > > is Melungeon. My ggrandfather (Alfred Lewis Allen) couldn't marry my > > > ggrandmother because he looked like a FPC (Free Person of Color), and my > > > ggrandmother was a blue-eyed blonde of primarily German heritage. > > > Later discovered that even that wasn't completely true...her grandmother > > > had been a Cornett (supposedly a corruption of Canute, a Danish king of > > > England). Cornett was probably ORIGINALLY of that derivation, but the > > ones > > > in SW Virginia are another family of Melungeons! > > > Guess I could go on and on with my own heritage, but that's enough! > Just > > > goes to show that you have to really get in there & dig. Sometimes it's > > > even possible to interview people from other families who knew the > family > > > you're researching, and can give you a decent physical description. > That > > > combined with the part of the country is usually the only "proof" you're > > > going to find, due to the Melungeons attempting to hide for centuries in > > > order to avoid being discriminated against. > > > Thank heaven racial pride has displaced the old discrimination to a > large > > > extent! > > > > > > Mike > > > IBSSG > > > > > > > > > > [Original Message] > > > > From: J. Garland <zippywebgenie@hotmail.com> > > > > To: <BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Date: 5/8/2002 7:33:27 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [BSChat] Re: Melungeons/Black Dutch > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, Mike will know more about this than I, I haven't heard so much > of > > > > "Black Irish" in respect to the Melungeons, I sure it's possible, > > though. > > > > They usually claimed association with just about anything else as a > > > reason > > > > for their exotic, darker look, often contrasted with blue eyes. There > > > have > > > > been a lot of years when it wasn't good to claim a family connection > to > > > > either the NA peoples or to Blacks, so, depending on the time frame > and > > > > location, I'm sure they came up with various stories to protect > > > themselves > > > > from the ignorant people around them. As a group, they've had a pretty > > > rough > > > > time here. There are still those who don't want it known that they're > > > part > > > > Melungeon--the first website I saw about them, the website owner had > > > > received threats. He had mentioned specific surnames in association > with > > > > Melungeon families, and some people didn't like that. There's still > > > plenty > > > > of ignorance to go around, looks like. > > > > > > > > Jan G. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > > > From: "Telecom Girl" <telecomgirl911@hotmail.com> > > > > Reply-To: BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-L@rootsweb.com > > > > To: BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-L@rootsweb.com > > > > Subject: Re: [BSChat] Re: BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-D Digest V02 #696 > > > > Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 07:42:37 -0500 > > > > > > > > I think the kind of census information I was looking for would be the > > > "black > > > > Irish" race. I have heard this was commonly used by Melungeon > families. > > > > > > > > Cammie > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: <LVLYLADY12@aol.com> > > > > To: <BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 2:52 PM > > > > Subject: [BSChat] Re: BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-D Digest V02 #696 > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 5/7/02 9:37:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > > > > BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I find this very interesting - we have all the "Melungeon" > > > > Characteristics > > > > > > in my family - but I can't find any census type evidence listing > > > anyone > > > > as > > > > > > anything but white. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Telecom girl, I don't think the Melungeons were listed on the > census > > as > > > > > "Melungeon" > > > > > There was so much prejudice through the years, they tried to hide > it > > > and > > > > > listed themselves as white. Now of course that has done away > with. > > > > There > > > > > are several books and websites about Melungeons that could probably > > > give > > > > you > > > > > a lot of information. It is a fascinating subject. > > > > > > > > > > Laurelyn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== BLACKSHEEP-CHAT Mailing List ==== > > > > > Unsubscribe from the list: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mailto:Blacksheep-Chat-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe&body=unsub > > > > scribe > > > > > > > > > > ============================== > > > > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > > > records, > > > > go to: > > > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== BLACKSHEEP-CHAT Mailing List ==== > > > > Unsubscribe from the list: > > > > > > > > > > Mailto:Blacksheep-Chat-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe&body=unsub > > > scribe > > > > > > > > ============================== > > > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > > records, > > > go > > > > to: > > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > > > > http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== BLACKSHEEP-CHAT Mailing List ==== > > > > Unsubscribe from the list: > > > > > > > > > > Mailto:Blacksheep-Chat-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe&body=unsub > > > scribe > > > > > > > > ============================== > > > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > > records, > > > go to: > > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Shuler Michael > > > --- grinch42@mindspring.com > > > --- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet. > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== BLACKSHEEP-CHAT Mailing List ==== > > > Creative use of your delete key is encouraged. If you disagree with the > > subject, CHANGE the subject. > > > > > > ============================== > > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > records, > > go to: > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== BLACKSHEEP-CHAT Mailing List ==== > > Unsubscribe from the list: > > > Mailto:Blacksheep-Chat-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe&body=unsub > scribe > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, > go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > --- Shuler Michael > --- grinch42@mindspring.com > --- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet. > > > > ==== BLACKSHEEP-CHAT Mailing List ==== > Unsubscribe from the list: > Mailto:Blacksheep-Chat-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe&body=unsub scribe > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >