Jack, you're good and loving dad, but you're not doing Kade any favors when it comes to her vocabulary. She's young and it's hard to teach kids when it's appropriate and when it's not appropriate to use certain words, no matter how smart she is. It takes emotional as well as mental maturity. So, the easiest thing to do is teach them not to use the words. Even if it bothers you to go along with what the authority figures at her school are saying. It's a respect issue. And I don't mean respect for the school people. Generally speaking in our society, we don't expect to hear those words coming out of the mouth of an 8 year old because it sounds crass and disrespectful towards whomever they're talking to and diminishes respect for herself. And in all honesty, speaking as a mom, if an eight or ten or twelve year old came to my home and spewed forth those words, I'd feel she was a bad example for my kids and that would be the last visit from her. It sounds trashy and, again, disrespectful towards herself and those she's talking to. There's a time and place for everything, but Kade's not old enough to be the judge of those things. By letting her use those words all the time, that something she's not going to learn. As for "profane", the word comes from the days when the churches were said to have a "thane" at the front door, which I imagine was like a threshold, step or porch and the place where the outside world stopped and the church structure began. The language of the world stopped "before" the "thane" and respectful language began there, at the opening door to the church. The pronunciation changed over time from 'pro thane' to 'profane". You, beyond a doubt, have had more reasons and opportunities to get PO'd and frustrated and profane with gov't people than just about anyone I know--with Jeff in a close second, but, if I were one of the civil service people (a very slim chance of that, too many rules for me, but just for the sake of example) and you were cussing at me disrespectfully, I'd probably not want to continue talking to you either. Respect makes a big difference. They remember the troublemakers, you know. The next time you deal with them, it may take an hour just to find someone to hand you off to. <g> Jan g. ----Original Message Follows---- From: "JACK CHILDERS" <jaxone1234@msn.com> Reply-To: BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-L@rootsweb.com To: BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [BSChat] LANGUAGE Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 10:27:41 -0500 You're right, it is not necessary to use cuss words to communicate the English language, as evidenced by this list. While some questionable words do creep into the conversation now and then, by and large we all know how to get our point across without cussing like a sailor about it. However, this language thing has gotten out of hand. Nowadays, everyone is an expert on everything. The saying someone on the list made one time, something to the effect, I got two more sessions of "The Operation" before I get my medical license illustrates how people become experts. Some people think they know everything when it comes to language. I have had government employees tell me they didn't have to talk to me as long as I used profane language. Oops, they just messed up on two fronts. To begin with, the word profane can only have a religious connotation, as in to profane the god head. If a government agent says they won't talk to me because I used the words G--D--- that means they are trying to impose their religious tenets on me in order for me to avail myself of that government service, and that's strictly a legal no-no. Plus, when they put those restrictions on my words they have just violated my constitutional right to freedom of speech. The Supreme Court has long ago decided that we can say all the dirty words we want, see Lenny Bruce, and for a government agency, or even a private individual, to say we can, well, it flys in the face of legal case law and our constitution. Then we come to the point where we decide what is a dirty word. I have been chastised for saying darn, cotton picken, ass, shit, poopah, falderall, etc. Mercy, I bet those same people would fall over dead if they heard me really cut loose ! Let's take the word shit. I grew up in a farm setting where the word was used quite extensively and freely by both sexes and of all ages. It was a very common thing on a farm. There are people still alive today who courted while sitting in a horse drawn buggy, said horse churning the stuff out left and right while the couple billed and cooed. Yet, there are tons of prissy people around the world who cringe and get that look on their face if they even smell the subject, let alone hear it expressed. As mentioned in a previous post to this list, Kade gets into minor trouble at school for saying words like damm, shit, ass, doodoo head, etc. My position is that she is free to use such words. They may be considered socially inappropriate, but they are not cuss words. I have done my job well in training her to know the difference between not polite words and down right offensive words. We all train our children in how to be phony and lie, and I got that down pat with Kade. In fact, I gave Kade and some of her friends this weekend a lesson in how to be socially fake and acceptable. Now take the infamous F--- word. It is merely an acronym meaning Fornicating Under Carnal Knowledge , pure and simple. I must admit that I sometimes get caught unawares when some people use the word, but I seldom fall over in a faint because of it. As someone was trying to point out, I think, go to Texas and sit on a park bench to hear the best language you ever want to hear. I don't think the use of cuss words denotes ignorance. I am not ignorant and I bet I know all the cuss words, and have probably used them all at one time or another. And I certainly don't use them to gain attention. I can get attention just walking down the street. And quite frankly, I don't desire any attention, just really want people to leave me the h--- alone. If my language, or ideas, or thoughts offend, just ignore me. Jack Childers in OKC ==== BLACKSHEEP-CHAT Mailing List ==== Unsubscribe from the list: Mailto:Blacksheep-Chat-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe&body=unsubscribe ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com