Yes, Jan, I have to agree with the observation on the Black Dutch, being familiar with the Spanish Netherlands (southern Holland & virtually all of Belgium & Luxembourg). As to the Black Irish, I accepted that explanation without question while my mother was living, mostly because she seemed embarrased to discuss the pigmentation aspect. My Pruitt line was VERY close-mouthed about origins & relationships, so that the only info I had on my mother's side of the family came from her mouth. Trying to trace them through written documents (including census) was almost impossible. After many years, and much searching through all possible spelling variations (and there are quite a few for that surname), I ran into the Melungeon research & realized that I have many of the physical characteristics, the families involved came from the right part of the country, and started seeing lists of surnames of POSSIBLE Melungeon origin. If I hadn't seen not only Pruitt, but most of the other surnames associated with my mother's lines, I wouldn't have made the connection, much less accepted it. Still, to PROVE Melungeon origin is something which I don't believe to be possible. Perhaps DNA research & technology will make it feasible, but that probably won't be a reality within my remaining lifetime. Am I open to & game for further research & being proved wrong? YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT! One thing I've had to learn about geneology is that it must ALWAYS be approached with an open mind & willingness to be proven wrong. Thanks for the forum, my BS family! Mike IBSSG > [Original Message] > From: jcurtis <jcurtis@redrock.net> > To: <BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-L@rootsweb.com>; <grinch42@mindspring.com> > Date: 5/8/2002 10:37:59 PM > Subject: Re: [BSChat] Re: Melungeons/Black Dutch > > Mike - I've seen (and been involved in), the Melungeon story on computer for > years, and I'm still confused. > > There was some story I read (a long time ago), that a group of people landed > (or crashed) on the shoals of Roanoke Island, VA. The folks rowing the ship > were black. So, all of them were stranded, and Indians appeared in the > scenerio...Eventually, the whites, blacks, indians inter-married....hence > Melungeons. > > I had someone suggest to me that my Collins family were Melungeons, which > didn't hold water. > > The Black Irish or Black Dutch, usually just means a Spanish > connexion...somewhere. > > Jan C. IBSSG > > -----Original Message----- > From: Shuler Michael <grinch42@mindspring.com> > To: BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-L@rootsweb.com <BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-L@rootsweb.com> > Date: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 8:09 AM > Subject: Re: [BSChat] Re: Melungeons/Black Dutch > > > > Right, Jan! On my mother's side I have a couple of instances of > >Melungeon claiming something else...My mother's maiden name was Pruitt (an > >Irish name)...when I asked her why her brothers & my cousins were so dark > >complected, she looked at me with her blue eyes and said "hush...we're > >Black Irish!" Didn't find out until she had been in her grave for several > >years the truth...Melungeon. Likewise, she had a grandmother whose maiden > >name was Nelson (English, right?). Wrong! My mother said "oh...she was an > >Indian Princess!" What a crock! > > On my father's side there's the Allen clan (which should have been my last > >name). Sounds English or French. But, the Appalachian Allen clan (mine) > >is Melungeon. My ggrandfather (Alfred Lewis Allen) couldn't marry my > >ggrandmother because he looked like a FPC (Free Person of Color), and my > >ggrandmother was a blue-eyed blonde of primarily German heritage. > > Later discovered that even that wasn't completely true...her grandmother > >had been a Cornett (supposedly a corruption of Canute, a Danish king of > >England). Cornett was probably ORIGINALLY of that derivation, but the ones > >in SW Virginia are another family of Melungeons! > > Guess I could go on and on with my own heritage, but that's enough! Just > >goes to show that you have to really get in there & dig. Sometimes it's > >even possible to interview people from other families who knew the family > >you're researching, and can give you a decent physical description. That > >combined with the part of the country is usually the only "proof" you're > >going to find, due to the Melungeons attempting to hide for centuries in > >order to avoid being discriminated against. > > Thank heaven racial pride has displaced the old discrimination to a large > >extent! > > > >Mike > >IBSSG > > > > > >> [Original Message] > >> From: J. Garland <zippywebgenie@hotmail.com> > >> To: <BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Date: 5/8/2002 7:33:27 AM > >> Subject: Re: [BSChat] Re: Melungeons/Black Dutch > >> > >> > >> Well, Mike will know more about this than I, I haven't heard so much of > >> "Black Irish" in respect to the Melungeons, I sure it's possible, though. > >> They usually claimed association with just about anything else as a > >reason > >> for their exotic, darker look, often contrasted with blue eyes. There > >have > >> been a lot of years when it wasn't good to claim a family connection to > >> either the NA peoples or to Blacks, so, depending on the time frame and > >> location, I'm sure they came up with various stories to protect > >themselves > >> from the ignorant people around them. As a group, they've had a pretty > >rough > >> time here. There are still those who don't want it known that they're > >part > >> Melungeon--the first website I saw about them, the website owner had > >> received threats. He had mentioned specific surnames in association with > >> Melungeon families, and some people didn't like that. There's still > >plenty > >> of ignorance to go around, looks like. > >> > >> Jan G. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ----Original Message Follows---- > >> From: "Telecom Girl" <telecomgirl911@hotmail.com> > >> Reply-To: BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-L@rootsweb.com > >> To: BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-L@rootsweb.com > >> Subject: Re: [BSChat] Re: BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-D Digest V02 #696 > >> Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 07:42:37 -0500 > >> > >> I think the kind of census information I was looking for would be the > >"black > >> Irish" race. I have heard this was commonly used by Melungeon families. > >> > >> Cammie > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: <LVLYLADY12@aol.com> > >> To: <BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-L@rootsweb.com> > >> Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 2:52 PM > >> Subject: [BSChat] Re: BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-D Digest V02 #696 > >> > >> > >> > In a message dated 5/7/02 9:37:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > >> > BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: > >> > > >> > > >> > > I find this very interesting - we have all the "Melungeon" > >> Characteristics > >> > > in my family - but I can't find any census type evidence listing > >anyone > >> as > >> > > anything but white. > >> > > > >> > > >> > Telecom girl, I don't think the Melungeons were listed on the census > as > >> > "Melungeon" > >> > There was so much prejudice through the years, they tried to hide it > >and > >> > listed themselves as white. Now of course that has done away with. > >> There > >> > are several books and websites about Melungeons that could probably > >give > >> you > >> > a lot of information. It is a fascinating subject. > >> > > >> > Laurelyn > >> > > >> > > >> > ==== BLACKSHEEP-CHAT Mailing List ==== > >> > Unsubscribe from the list: > >> > > >> > >Mailto:Blacksheep-Chat-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe&body=unsu > b > >> scribe > >> > > >> > ============================== > >> > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > >records, > >> go to: > >> > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> ==== BLACKSHEEP-CHAT Mailing List ==== > >> Unsubscribe from the list: > >> > >Mailto:Blacksheep-Chat-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe&body=unsu > b > >scribe > >> > >> ============================== > >> To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, > >go > >> to: > >> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _________________________________________________________________ > >> Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > >> http://www.hotmail.com > >> > >> > >> ==== BLACKSHEEP-CHAT Mailing List ==== > >> Unsubscribe from the list: > >> > >Mailto:Blacksheep-Chat-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe&body=unsu > b > >scribe > >> > >> ============================== > >> To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, > >go to: > >> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > >--- Shuler Michael > >--- grinch42@mindspring.com > >--- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet. > > > > > > > >==== BLACKSHEEP-CHAT Mailing List ==== > >Creative use of your delete key is encouraged. If you disagree with the > subject, CHANGE the subject. > > > >============================== > >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, > go to: > >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > --- Shuler Michael --- grinch42@mindspring.com --- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.

My gr-gr-gr-grandmother was Sarah Jane Dorsey who was born in Pickens County, SC (the area became Oconee County after she left) in 1833. She was the daughter of David Dorsey and Mary Martin. David and Mary moved to what later became White County, GA about 1840. David's father remained in Pickens county and I guess Sarah went back to Pickens and worked in a slaughter house cleaning hogs. She married a German immigrant, Johan Frerichs about 1853 and had her first four children in Pickens County. During the Civil War, Johan joined a GA regiment and was blinded by cannon fire. In the meantime they had bought land in Ironsburg, Tennessee and while Johan was away, Sarah built the chimney that is still standing today along with the homestead according to the Monroe County Historian I have been in contact with. When interviewed by the author for Ironsburg Roots, Sarrah said she was Black Dutch and that she had come to the US from Germany with her parents and two brother, Tarpley and Elisha as very small children. This must have been a fiction for the book because her death records tie her to Dorseys which were Americans for at least two generations and I have evidence from census questions that the family had been in the Carolinas for at least one more generation before that. The only reason for her little fiction had to be to explain her darker complexion. The historian sent me a picture of her and Johan taken in late middle age and she is dark but has very fine bones. Doesn't really have an Indian or African look to her. By the way she did have two brothers (and more) named Elijah and Joseph Tarpley Dorsey. One of Joseph Tarpley Dorseys clay jugs sold recently on Ebay. I need to look to see if I can find it. EdrieAnne