Mellie, thanks. There is also a TONKS who was sent to Aussieland about 1850? I had been looking into him for a person I met at the family History Library. It has been a couple of years. I found what I could and sent it on to the person who asked. I'm thinking there is a strong possibility that the TONKS in and around Staffordshire are probably related, way back. BTW, the one I mention is mentioned in the early settlers. Apparently he served his time and became a fairly good citizen. Aleta, IBSSG, Charter Member Bo-Peep Award Ogden, Utah, USA "God sent his Singers upon the Earth, With songs of Gladness and Mirth. That they might touch the hearts of men, And bring them to Heaven again." --Longfellow

apolofies for sending via chat, have got address book probs, this for atention of Aleta. ps have received snail mail. thanks Mellie IBSSG How Come My Coat Of Arms Has Buckles At The Back? ListAdmin: ALL-SURNAMES-L@rootsweb.com AUS-NSW-SURNAMES-L@rootsweb.com BAGNALL-L@rootsweb.com BATE-L@rootsweb.com BENTON-ENG-L@rootsweb.com BLACKHAM-L@rootsweb.com DEUTSCH-L@rootsweb.com FEREDAY-L@rootsweb.com HOLLOWOOD-L@rootsweb.com HOWDLE-L@rootsweb.com KIMBER-L@rootsweb.com RABBIT-L@rootsweb.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <mowbray@is.dal.ca> To: <ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: 28 May 2002 22:30 Subject: [B'ham] TONKS- Possible Aussie Connection > Hi Folks: > > My cousin Sam e-mailed recently with a possible TONKS connection to > Australia. Seems that before we connected up she had received an e-mail > over a year ago from a person in Aussie Land who indicated there may > have been a connection. > > The person indicated that her grandmother was a Tonks who had > emigrated to Aussie Land circa the early 1900's (1900-1925?) and had a > brother named Thomas who went to Canada shortly after WW I (my > grandfather was a Thomas who had moved to Canada in 1923). > > Thomas' sisters were: > > Elsie TONKS (probably Elsie), daughter, aged 6, born circa > 1895 > Florence TONKS, daughter, aged 3, born circa 1898. > Ethel TONKS, daughter, aged 1, born circa 1900 > Gladys TONKS, daughter, aged 1 month, born 1901. > > Depending on the year of emigration (1900 to 1925) there may be a > possible candidate. > > Going to my g-grandfather there is a Sarah and Minnie TONKS who > would have been 28 and 23 circa 1900. > > Anyway the person who replied was an M. Morgan at- > > mailto:sylmick@iqnet.net.au > > > Anyway this is a bit of a shot in the dark but any help would be > appreciated. > > Regards: > > Paul K. Smith > Quensland, Nova Scotia > > > ==== ENG-WARKS-BIRMINGHAM Mailing List ==== > ~~ The List's Golden Rule ~~ > Keep to genealogy, history, anything ancestors! Keep it Clean & Cool! > Treat others like you want them to treat you ... But *NO* selling! > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. No attachments sent without prior notification Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.365 / Virus Database: 202 - Release Date: 24/05/02

I can even add a little bit to what you pointed out, Jan, since I was ordained in CA. If a couple chooses to marry under the "co-habitation" clause of CA law to avoid the blood test, then those records are also considered confidential, regardless of where or by whom the marriage was performed. (Would you believe performing a wedding in a liquor store?) Each to their own, but for those records the written authorization of either the bride or groom must be obtained to get a copy from the Hall of Records. Mike IBSSG > [Original Message] > From: J. Garland <zippywebgenie@hotmail.com> > To: <BlackSheep-L@rootsweb.com> > Date: 5/28/2002 3:15:52 PM > Subject: Re: [BS-L] California passes public records ban unanimously > > > The LDS records, such as the IGI and Ancestral Archives and the microfilms > in SLC are not CA birth, death or marriage records. They're just data from > researchers and records of "sealings", without documentation of any kind > provided. > > Some other states have had rules about some such records for years. That's > one of the main reasons you don't see others on line. CA was one a few or > perhaps the only one that allowed sales of the birth records on CDs. The > marriage records are held at the county level where they happened, the last > I heard. And some of those are already held as confidential--the marriage > records from private wedding chapels, not churches, are often the type that > requires signed, notarized permission from either the bride or groom for > copies to be made. (My daughter learned that after she was married at one.) > > Jan g. > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: Peneilope@aol.com > Reply-To: BlackSheep-L@rootsweb.com > To: BlackSheep-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [BS-L] California passes public records ban unanimously > Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 15:45:57 EDT > > > How do you think this will affect the records the LDS holds on and off line? > Karri > > > n a message dated 5/24/02 9:21:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > ScismGenie@aol.com writes: > > << The State bill to "control access" to public civil registries has > passed > > 46-0 in the California Assembly. It now awaits the Governor's signature. > > There is no doubt he will sign it. > > There is also no doubt that the other 49 states will consider "like" > measures, and clamp down on MORE records accessability on the internet > and > via mail inquiry. > > This was touted as an anti-identity theft measure, and an anti-terrorism > reaction. > > > > > Jeffery G. Scism, IBSSG, (http://blacksheep.rootsweb.com) > ~~ > > > > ==== BlackSheep Mailing List ==== > ~~~~ > > The contents of the Blacksheep-L@rootsweb.com archives are copyrighted by > each individual submitter. > > The Following topics are inappropriate on Blacksheep-L@rootsweb.com: > Political discussion/ views > Religious and inspirational postings, > Politically "Hot" Topics > Advertising and chain letters > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go > to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > > ==== BlackSheep Mailing List ==== > --- > The contents of the Blacksheep-L@rootsweb.com archives are copyrighted by each individual submitter. > > The Blacksheep-L@rootsweb.com is a GENEALOGY list, please take off-topic posts here, Blacksheep-Chat-L@rootsweb.com, subscribe to the chat list at: http://blacksheep.rootsweb.com/ look for the buttons. > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 --- Shuler Michael --- grinch42@mindspring.com --- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.

Kade and I went to the Okfuskee cemetery where our family is buried to place wreaths on their graves. Met some other people there at the cemetery, made a few new acquaintances. Then we went to Okmulgee to try and find an old black cemetery. Did find it and was impressed at how the young folks had reclaimed the place from the overgrown mess it was in years ago. Then we stopped by my sister's place out in the country by Lake Thunderbird. Kade had to go pick some mulberries in the woods, and nothing would do but daddy and aunt come see. Then we all went back inside and picked the wood ticks off of us. Oh, and we are now seven turtles richer for our trip. Kade just had to stop and save the turtles from getting run over on the roadway. I turned them loose in our back yard so they can live in the cane. Jack Childers in OKC International Society of BlackSheep Genealogists http://www.gbnf.com/genealogy/childers/html/surnames.htm "I've traveled a long way and some of the roads were not paved" Jaxone1234@msn.com

Just a note to let all know that not only is this Memorial Day in the US, it is also Commonwealth day in the former British Empire, when all the various countries honor the people who fought in all prior wars in defense of each other, each member (and former member) of the Commonwealth, including the honored dead of the US. And, yes, I'm adding this little note in honor of Mellie, who could share this with all, but since she's been quiet for a few days, I should imagine that she's on holiday with her "little ones". Mike IBSSG --- Shuler Michael --- grinch42@mindspring.com --- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.

Hi - sure hope this doesn't offend anyone but I just couldn't resist! Shirley: bobert@i-1.net Growing Tomatoes: A beautiful woman loved growing tomatoes, but couldn't seem to get her tomatoes to turn red. One day while taking a stroll she came upon a gentleman neighbor who had the most beautiful garden full of huge red tomatoes. The woman asked the gentleman, "What do you do to get your tomatoes so red?" The gentleman responded, "Well, if you must know, twice a day I stand in front of my tomato garden and expose myself, and my tomatoes turn red from blushing so much." Since the woman had tried everything else she could think of and was out of ideas, she decided to try doing the same thing to her tomato garden to see if it would work. So twice a day for two weeks, she exposed herself to her garden, hoping for the best. One day the gentleman was passing by and asked the woman, "By the way, how did you make out? Did your tomatoes turn red?" "No," she replied, "but my cucumbers are enormous." *********************

Good going, Jan! Terri

EUNUCHS, EUNUCHS, EUNUCHS !!! It didn't stop them from having sex with the harem girls, it just stopped the production of children. I sent that post to the list as an example of the Oklahoman thinking pattern. It just frosts my, well, what the law was talking about, to think that a supposedly intelligent person as a senator could entertain such a stupid idea, let alone both Senate and House passing it. What an image to present to the rest of the country. The only surgical procedure that MAY stop sex offenders is a lobotomy . Even then we'd probably just end up with simple minded molesters. I wish I could remember a book I read years ago about a society that did everything they could to evaluate an offender, assessment, rehabilitation, the whole nine yards, but if it were found that help could not save an individual they were just 'eliminated'. Jack Childers in OKC

In a message dated 5/26/2002 12:09:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time, zippywebgenie@hotmail.com writes: > Since this was sort of, kinda, almost a TL thing, due to some living > relatives, I've posted this to the Chat list because it's a smaller number > of people and I've not mentioned specific names, just in case... > > Jan G. > Welcome your hubby to the society. ( he already was a one-degree member on your directs) Jeffery G. Scism, IBSSG, (http://blacksheep.rootsweb.com) ~~ Coordinator, C h u r c h i l l Nevada U S G e n W e b Site Co-Coordinator, Inmontgo-L, Montgomery County, Indiana, U S G e n W e b Site manager of the following Rootsweb Lists: B l a c k s h e e p, L a n d e s, L a n d i s, P e f f l e y, S c i s m, E n d i c o t t, S h i p w r e c k, Inmontgo (Mont. Co. Indiana), NVChurch (Churchill Co. Nv.)

In a message dated 5/25/2002 2:11:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, HBalc27124@aol.com writes: > I would think the appearance of castration would be enough to make anyone > keep their pants ON. > Terri > No, because the problem is a MENTAL one, and has nothing to do with sexual performance, it is a need to control, abuse, and often the person who does these things is unable to stop, even though they may want to. Jeffery G. Scism, IBSSG, (http://blacksheep.rootsweb.com) ~~ Coordinator, C h u r c h i l l Nevada U S G e n W e b Site Co-Coordinator, Inmontgo-L, Montgomery County, Indiana, U S G e n W e b Site manager of the following Rootsweb Lists: B l a c k s h e e p, L a n d e s, L a n d i s, P e f f l e y, S c i s m, E n d i c o t t, S h i p w r e c k, Inmontgo (Mont. Co. Indiana), NVChurch (Churchill Co. Nv.)

Hi Sheepies Had a major breakthrough on my husband's family this week. My husband's grandfather, who came from the Caribbean area, moved to the US sometime between 1925 and 1930. I received some documented info on three generations of the family, from civil and church records. As it turns out, Grandfather had left a wife and two kids behind, before moving to the US and marrying again, without divorcing the first wife. My husband's first response was "I thought my granddad was a good man." And, a day or so later, after thinking about it, coming to grips with it, and adjusting his attitude a bit, said,"Hey, this makes me a Blacksheep, doesn't it?" So, I'm applying for the designation for him. (And as an additional ram for me, too, by the once-removed rule.) One of these days, I'll get him to sign on to the list for a while, but don't expect much--typing is slow and arduous for him--dyslexia that affects "output", not "input". Getting back to granddad, as it turns out, at least one of the first two kids came to the US and at the time he died ten years ago, was living about 10 miles from his father. I think I've also located the first wife (deceased) and other child (still living). So far, planning to keep mum about this--not sure how the info would be received by my father in law (although I've got this gut-feeling that he already knows about it). I think the truth came out at some point and it may have been the reason grandma divorced the grandfather. Finding this second family helps to explain why granddad changed his surname when he received his citizenship here and why he changed his father's first name on his SS application, and a bit of other wrong info. Since this was sort of, kinda, almost a TL thing, due to some living relatives, I've posted this to the Chat list because it's a smaller number of people and I've not mentioned specific names, just in case... Jan G. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

Hi, Sheepers! Have a great day tomorrow! Shirley: bobert@i-1.net Wondering Why? Everyone seems to be wondering why the Arab terrorists are so quick to commit suicide? Let's see now: No premarital sex. No booze. No bars. No television. No Internet. No organized sports, stadiums or tailgate parties. Actually, no tailgates. No Hooters. No meat from a pig. Sand everywhere and not a dune buggy in sight. Ever try to fish at an oasis? Rags for clothes and hats. Eating only with your right hand cause you wipe your butt only with your left. Like life isn't complicated enough already. Constant wailing from the guy next door because he is sick. No doctors. No music. No radio. You can't shave. You can't shower. Bar-B-Q donkey cooked over burning camel dung. The women have to wear baggy dresses and veils at all times. Your bride is picked by someone else. Oh, and then they tell you that when you die it all gets better! Who wouldn't go for it? ***************

I would think the appearance of castration would be enough to make anyone keep their pants ON. Terri

In a message dated 5/25/2002 10:16:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jaxone1234@msn.com writes: > > Governor To Study Castration Bill > > .......governor will study very closely the language in a bill that would > allow chemical and surgical castration of criminals convicted of sex > crimes.....the permanence of castration in light of the Jeffrey Todd Pierce > case (wrongful conviction) is obviously an issue.......the measure permits > judges to order chemical castration for people convicted of committing > first or second degree rape and forcible sodomy. > All that would accomplish is a REDUCED chance of impregnatinmg future victims, even castrated men still have the "desire" and act on it. Rape is an act of Violent Control, not sexual desire or "love". Castration isn't going to solve the issues. Jeffery G. Scism, IBSSG, (http://blacksheep.rootsweb.com) ~~ Coordinator, C h u r c h i l l Nevada U S G e n W e b Site Co-Coordinator, Inmontgo-L, Montgomery County, Indiana, U S G e n W e b Site manager of the following Rootsweb Lists: B l a c k s h e e p, L a n d e s, L a n d i s, P e f f l e y, S c i s m, E n d i c o t t, S h i p w r e c k, Inmontgo (Mont. Co. Indiana), NVChurch (Churchill Co. Nv.)

Jack, living alone isn't the worst thing in life. Living with a spouse you feel anger, resentment and distrust toward is far worse, far more unhealthy. Today could be the best day of her life, if she'll keep that "fresh start" attitude going. She has never had so much freedom to do what ever she wants to do in the way she wants to do it. That even extends to the job market. And at 48 she's probably got a lot of good years ahead. I hope that she'll get some help in handling her loss (of husband, trust, marriage). And sit down and make a list of what she wants to do in the next five years. I don't blame you for keeping your mouth shut so long--I've been in that situation before, too. You know you're either going to cause tremendous pain or be the messenger they want to shoot. Or both. Jan G. ----Original Message Follows---- From: "JACK CHILDERS" <jaxone1234@msn.com> Reply-To: BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-L@rootsweb.com To: BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [BSChat] WELL, IT HIT THE FAN Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 11:53:29 -0500 Some of you may remember a few years ago I mentioned that I had this moral dilemma about my sister and her husband. I had come across information that he was running around on her and I asked for advise on how to handle it. I received a lot of conflicting advise, anywhere from go straight to her and tell her, to just letting it ride for the time being, to don't get involved in a married couple's affairs. Well, I decided to let it ride and not get involved, even though I sure did want to tell her. Yesterday it all came out. My poor sister go up in the morning with her life intact and before the day was over her life was changed forever. The day started out bad for her. She tripped in her living room, landed flat on her face and her teeth hit the carpet. Later on in the day she got kicked in the teeth again with the news that her husband was unfaithful to her. Not a good day all the way around. Her husband's unfaithfulness is particularly bad because of who he was unfaithful with. It seems he forced himself off on my sister's daughter, an adult from a previous marriage, and had a sexual encounter several times with my sister's worse enemy. Kind of insult on injury in both cases. And those are the two indiscretions we know about. So now my sister is all alone on her acreage out in the country, the husband is in a motel room, my sister has a life to start over, the whole nine yards. She feels like the past 14 years she was married to him was just a joke and is now ready to start all over again. What a mess. All I can do is hug her and let her cry. I hate to see things like this happen, but I guess unfaithful mates are nothing new under the sun. This is my sister who had her first child when she was 14. This is the very first time she has ever been alone in her life. Always before there were children, then a husband, around her. I don't know how she will handle being totally alone at the age of 48. On top of it all, she is between jobs with the monthly bills due any day now. So it will be hard on her, finding a new job while laboring under the emotional havoc she is experiencing. Yesterday, when she sat down in my living room and point blank asked me what I knew about her husband dallying around with certain other women, I told her she didn't really want to know what I knew about that subject because it was going to ruin her life as she knew it. But I had to come clean with her because other people had already told her all the details, she just had to hear it from me before she acted on it all. Jack Childers in OKC International Society of BlackSheep Genealogists http://www.gbnf.com/genealogy/childers/html/surnames.htm "I've traveled a long way and some of the roads were not paved" Jaxone1234@msn.com ==== BLACKSHEEP-CHAT Mailing List ==== Unsubscribe from the list: Mailto:Blacksheep-Chat-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe&body=unsubscribe ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

In today's newspaper the following was reported.... Governor To Study Castration Bill .......governor will study very closely the language in a bill that would allow chemical and surgical castration of criminals convicted of sex crimes.....the permanence of castration in light of the Jeffrey Todd Pierce case (wrongful conviction) is obviously an issue.......the measure permits judges to order chemical castration for people convicted of committing first or second degree rape and forcible sodomy. Jack Childers in OKC International Society of BlackSheep Genealogists http://www.gbnf.com/genealogy/childers/html/surnames.htm "I've traveled a long way and some of the roads were not paved" Jaxone1234@msn.com

Some of you may remember a few years ago I mentioned that I had this moral dilemma about my sister and her husband. I had come across information that he was running around on her and I asked for advise on how to handle it. I received a lot of conflicting advise, anywhere from go straight to her and tell her, to just letting it ride for the time being, to don't get involved in a married couple's affairs. Well, I decided to let it ride and not get involved, even though I sure did want to tell her. Yesterday it all came out. My poor sister go up in the morning with her life intact and before the day was over her life was changed forever. The day started out bad for her. She tripped in her living room, landed flat on her face and her teeth hit the carpet. Later on in the day she got kicked in the teeth again with the news that her husband was unfaithful to her. Not a good day all the way around. Her husband's unfaithfulness is particularly bad because of who he was unfaithful with. It seems he forced himself off on my sister's daughter, an adult from a previous marriage, and had a sexual encounter several times with my sister's worse enemy. Kind of insult on injury in both cases. And those are the two indiscretions we know about. So now my sister is all alone on her acreage out in the country, the husband is in a motel room, my sister has a life to start over, the whole nine yards. She feels like the past 14 years she was married to him was just a joke and is now ready to start all over again. What a mess. All I can do is hug her and let her cry. I hate to see things like this happen, but I guess unfaithful mates are nothing new under the sun. This is my sister who had her first child when she was 14. This is the very first time she has ever been alone in her life. Always before there were children, then a husband, around her. I don't know how she will handle being totally alone at the age of 48. On top of it all, she is between jobs with the monthly bills due any day now. So it will be hard on her, finding a new job while laboring under the emotional havoc she is experiencing. Yesterday, when she sat down in my living room and point blank asked me what I knew about her husband dallying around with certain other women, I told her she didn't really want to know what I knew about that subject because it was going to ruin her life as she knew it. But I had to come clean with her because other people had already told her all the details, she just had to hear it from me before she acted on it all. Jack Childers in OKC International Society of BlackSheep Genealogists http://www.gbnf.com/genealogy/childers/html/surnames.htm "I've traveled a long way and some of the roads were not paved" Jaxone1234@msn.com

Thanks, Jeff, for your kindness. About being the family "mule" - sometimes there is only one other alternative - putting the afflicted member in some kind of nursing home. Some families are large enough and caring enough so that many can help. With very small families, like mine, that is not the case. I am IT. I have been it for the last ten years. Life is like that, sometimes. Sharon IBSSG ----- Original Message ----- From: <ScismGenie@aol.com> To: <BLACKSHEEP-CHAT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [BSChat] Alzheimer's - My Advice > In a message dated 5/24/2002 9:28:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > workman@dreamscape.com writes: > > > > Alzheimer's is a family affair, and it gets pretty grim. > > YES it is, and sometimes the FAMILY has to be forced to help out, and all > to often ONE person carries the whole load. > > You and others in this situation NEED to make sure YOU are not the family > mule. > > My prayers and support to anyone in this situation. > > > Jeffery G. Scism, IBSSG, (http://blacksheep.rootsweb.com) > ~~ > Coordinator, C h u r c h i l l Nevada U S G e n W e b Site > Co-Coordinator, Inmontgo-L, Montgomery County, Indiana, U S G e n W e b Site > manager of the following Rootsweb Lists: > B l a c k s h e e p, L a n d e s, L a n d i s, P e f f l e y, S c i s m, E n > d i c o t t, > S h i p w r e c k, Inmontgo (Mont. Co. Indiana), NVChurch (Churchill Co. > Nv.) > > > ==== BLACKSHEEP-CHAT Mailing List ==== > Unsubscribe from the list: > Mailto:Blacksheep-Chat-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe&body=unsub scribe > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

In a message dated 5/24/2002 9:28:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time, workman@dreamscape.com writes: > Alzheimer's is a family affair, and it gets pretty grim. YES it is, and sometimes the FAMILY has to be forced to help out, and all to often ONE person carries the whole load. You and others in this situation NEED to make sure YOU are not the family mule. My prayers and support to anyone in this situation. Jeffery G. Scism, IBSSG, (http://blacksheep.rootsweb.com) ~~ Coordinator, C h u r c h i l l Nevada U S G e n W e b Site Co-Coordinator, Inmontgo-L, Montgomery County, Indiana, U S G e n W e b Site manager of the following Rootsweb Lists: B l a c k s h e e p, L a n d e s, L a n d i s, P e f f l e y, S c i s m, E n d i c o t t, S h i p w r e c k, Inmontgo (Mont. Co. Indiana), NVChurch (Churchill Co. Nv.)

Linda and Sheepers, It's wonderful to tell the caretaker to understand and continue to love and respect the afflicted. Advising the caretaker to have patience and not to get angry..... Pardon me, but NUTS! More important, the caretaker has to have understanding and patience with himself/herself. Anger is normal. Resentment is normal. Self-pity is normal. Those are the demons I battle every day. We have to take care of ourselves before we are worth a tinker's damn to anyone else. Alzheimer's is a family affair, and it gets pretty grim. Sharon IBSSG