No need to apologize. ;-) I got taken in by a couple of these in the past. That's why I'm more incredulous now and do some research when they pop up. There are enough silly things going on in this world with out having to make them up. In this case it does a great disservice to an 80 year old woman who was injured by the negligence of a LARGE corporation. Corporations are held to a higher standard as they have the resources to do the appropriate research to keep their customers safe. One of the first things they teach in law school is that CRIME = ACTUS REUS + MENS REA + ABSENCE OF A VALID DEFENCE Actus Reus - You did the act Mens Rea - You understood the consequences cheers, Rick Stirling, IBSSG, BoPeep2002 From: "Bobby & Sue Bates" <[email protected]> > Hi Rick, > My apologies. I received those from what I had considered a reliable source and thought I would share. My mistake! LOL > Eh, well, they made for amusing reading, at least. I hope! > Best, > SueB

Just a further bit of enlightenment ... It could be argued that the need for tort reform is overblown. Only rarely do ridiculous lawsuits result in windfalls for the plaintiff; these cases are almost always either thrown out or the judgment goes for the defendant. Some celebrated "outrageous" suits wherein judgment went for the plaintiff prove upon closer examination to be far less "outrageous" than originally presented in the media. (For example, the "woman scalded by hot coffee" suit, which at first blush looked like the height of frivolity proved to be a perfectly legitimate action taken against a corporation that knew, thanks to a string of similar scaldings it had quietly been paying off, that its coffee was not just hot, but dangerously hot. The Association of Trial Lawyers of America provides an excellent description of this case). THE MCDONALD'S SCALDING COFFEE CASE Stella Liebeck of Albuquerque, New Mexico, was in the passenger seat of her grandson's car when she was severely burned by McDonald's coffee in February 1992. Liebeck, now 81, ordered coffee that was served in a styrofoam cup at the drive-through window of a local McDonald's. After receiving the order, the grandson pulled his car forward and stopped momentarily so that Liebeck could add cream and sugar to her coffee. (Critics of civil justice, who have pounced on this case, often charge that Liebeck was driving the car or that the vehicle was in motion when she spilled the coffee; neither is true.) Liebeck placed the cup between her knees and attempted to remove the plastic lid from the cup. As she removed the lid, the entire contents of the cup spilled into her lap. The sweatpants Liebeck was wearing absorbed the coffee and held it next to her skin. A vascular surgeon determined that Liebeck suffered full thickness burns (or third-degree burns) over 6 percent of her body, including her inner thighs, perineum, buttocks, and genital and groin areas. She was hospitalized for eight days, during which time she underwent skin grafting. Liebeck, who also underwent debridement treatments, sought to settle her claim for $20,000, but McDonald's refused. During discovery, McDonald's produced documents showing more than 700 claims by people burned by its coffee between 1982 and 1992. Some claims involved third-degree burns substantially similar to Liebeck's. This history documented McDonald's knowledge about the extent and nature of this hazard. McDonald's also said during discovery that, based on a consultant's advice, it held its coffee at between 180 and 190 degrees fahrenheit to maintain optimum taste. He admitted that he had not evaluated the safety ramifications at this temperature. Other establishments sell coffee at substantially lower temperatures, and coffee served at home is generally 135 to 140 degrees. Further, McDonald's quality assurance manager testified that the company actively enforces a requirement that coffee be held in the pot at 185 degrees, plus or minus five degrees. He also testified that a burn hazard exists with any food substance served at 140 degree or above, and that McDonald's coffee, at the temperature at which it was poured into styrofoam cups, was not fit for consumption because it would burn the mouth and throat. The quality assurance manager admitted that burns would occur, but testified that McDonald's had no intention of reducing the "holding temperature" of its coffee. Plaintiff's expert, a scholar in thermodynamics as applied to human skin burns, testified that liquids, at 180 degrees, will cause a full thickness burn to human skin in two to seven seconds. Other testimony showed that as the temperature decreases toward 155 degrees, the extent of the burn relative to that temperature decreases exponentially. Thus, if Liebeck's spill had involved coffee at 155 degrees, the liquid would have cooled and given her time to avoid a serious burn. McDonald's asserted that customers buy coffee on their way to work or home, intending to consume it there. However, the company's own research showed that customers intend to consume the coffee immediately while driving. McDonald's also argued that consumers know coffee is hot and that its customers want it that way. The company admitted its customers were unaware that they could suffer third- degree burns from the coffee and that a statement on the side of the cup was not a "warning" but a "reminder" since the location of the writing would not warn customers of the hazard. The jury awarded Liebeck $200,000 in compensatory damages. This amount was reduced to $160,000 because the jury found Liebeck 20 percent at fault in the spill. The jury also awarded Liebeck $2.7 million in punitive damages, which equals about two days of McDonald's coffee sales. Post-verdict investigation found that the temperature of coffee at the local Albuquerque McDonald's had dropped to 158 degrees fahrenheit. The trial court subsequently reduced the punitive award to $480,000 -- or three times compensatory damages -- even though the judge called McDonald's conduct reckless, callous and willful. Subsequent to remittitur, the parties entered a post-verdict settlement.

I'm afraid these all fall under the category of "internet myths/urban legends" unless they were accompanied by actual case numbers. Just like our search for our ancestors, the truth is best found in the sources/documentation. Word of mouth just doesn't have a high degree of reliability. ;-) Now for the facts lest anyone think these were real cases ... Origins: This "and you wonder what's wrong with the world today?" whinge appeared on the Internet in May 2001. All of the entries in the list are fabrications -- a search for news stories about each of these cases failed to turn up anything, as did a search for each law case. The earliest version concluded with a seventh item that has since been snipped away, likely after someone noticed it was the venerable microwaved poodle legend. Its inclusion would have immediately called into question the truthfulness of the other six cases for any number of folks familiar with urban legends. The remaining six were still false, but they weren't as obviously false as the following poodle tale and thus wouldn't have set the alarm bells ringing: In the spring of 2002, a telling of the venerable Cruise Control legend became part of a widely circulated "outrageous lawsuits" list known on the Internet as the "Stella Awards": In November 2000, Mr. Grazinski purchased a brand new 32 foot Winnebago motor home. On his first trip home, having joined the freeway, he set the cruise control at 70 mph and calmly left the drivers seat to go into the back and make himself a cup of coffee. Not surprisingly, the Winnie left the freeway, crashed and overturned. Mr. Grazinski sued Winnebago for not advising him in the handbook that he could not actually do this. He was awarded $1,750,000 plus a new Winnebago. The Grazinski entry had been added to a compilation of other false entries -- it was just another howler tacked on. Cheers! Rick Stirling, IBSSG, BoPeep2002 From: "Bobby & Sue Bates" <[email protected]> > A legal system gone berserk? > SB > Thought you might enjoy this: > > > The "Stella" awards rank up there with the Darwin awards. Stella Liebeck is the 81-year old lady who spilled coffee on herself and sued McDonalds. > This case inspired an annual award - The "Stella" Award for the most frivolous lawsuits in the U.S. The following are previous year's candidates: > > 1. January 2000: Kathleen Robertson of Austin, Texas, was awarded $780,000 by a jury of her peers after breaking her ankle tripping over a toddler who was running inside a furniture store. The owners of the store > were understandably surprised at the verdict, considering the misbehaving little b*stard was Ms. Robertson's son. > > 2. June 1998: A 19-year old Carl Truman of Los Angeles won $74,000 and medical expenses when his neighbor ran over his hand with a Honda Accord. > Mr. Truman apparently didn't notice there was someone at the wheel of the car when he was trying to steal his neighbor's hubcaps. > > 3. October 1998: A Terrence Dickson of Bristol, Pennsylvania, was leaving a house he had just finished robbing by way of the garage. He was not able > to get the garage door to go up since the automatic door opener was malfunctioning. He couldn't re-enter the house because the door connecting the house and garage locked when he pulled it shut. The family was on > vacation. Mr. Dickson found himself locked in the garage for eight days. > He subsisted on a case of Pepsi he found, and a large bag of dry dog food. > He sued the homeowner's insurance claiming the situation caused him undue mental anguish. The jury agreed to the tune of a half million dollars. > > 4. October 1999: Jerry Williams of Little Rock, Arkansas was awarded $14,500 and medical expenses after being bitten on the buttocks by his next door neighbor's beagle. The beagle was on a chain in its > owner's fenced-in yard. The award was less than sought because the jury felt the dog might have been just a little provoked at the time by Mr. Williams, who was > shooting it repeatedly with a pellet gun. > > 5. May 2000: A Philadelphia restaurant was ordered to pay Amber Carson of Lancaster, Pennsylvania $113,500 after she slipped on a soft drink and broke her coccyx. The beverage was on the floor because Ms. Carson threw > it at her boyfriend 30 seconds earlier during an argument. > > 6. December 1997: Kara Walton of Claymont, Delaware, > successfully sued the owner of a night club in a neighboring city when she fell from the bathroom > window to the floor and knocked out her two front teeth. This occurred while Ms. Walton was trying to sneak through the window in the ladies room to avoid paying the $3.50 cover charge. She was awarded $12,000 and dental expenses. > > And the winner is: > > Mr. Merv Grazinski of Oklahoma City. In November 2000, Mr. Grazinski purchased a brand new 32-foot Winnebago motor home. On his first trip home, having joined the freeway, he set the cruise control at 70 > mph and calmly left the drivers seat to go into the back and make himself a cup of coffee. Not surprisingly the Winnebago left the freeway, crashed and overturned. Mr. Grazinski sued Winnebago for not advising him > in the handbook that he couldn't actually do this. He was awarded $1,750,000 plus a new motor home. > > "There is nothing like returning to a place that remains > unchanged to find the ways in which you yourself have altered." Nelson Mandella

I think it really describes how many feel.>>>>>>>.......HEAR! HEAR!.....and it applies to Australia as well.....I personally am fed up with these minorities trying to tell us that WE have to accept etc....sorry people....it is purely a case of "When in Rome......" They came here for a better life, then get on with it, and stop trying to change our ways to theirs!! Peg R NSW Australia [email protected] It's hard to be nostalgic when you can't remember anything. Checked by Norton's AV

1945.....what movies?? Brief Encounter.... The Lost Weekend..Ray Milland And Then There Were None.... apparently not a very exciting year for movies....but The Lost Weekend was Milland's Best!! Peg R NSW Australia [email protected] It's hard to be nostalgic when you can't remember anything. Checked by Norton's AV

Cal, A caul is a thin film of tissue that is over the face of an infant when born, quickly removed so said infant can breath. It is considered highly fortuitous to be born with said caul....don't hear much about them these days. Peg R NSW Australia [email protected] It's hard to be nostalgic when you can't remember anything. Checked by Norton's AV

>From Andrea's aunt: She's doing better all the time. She has a tentative date to go home of September 5, and even that's too long for her. She still has the trach, but she is starting to be able to eat stuff like mashed potatoes, etc. When she goes home, she won't have the trach or stomach tube or anything else. She has been walking around with a little help. So, it keeps getting better all the time. She seems to have the same personality that she did before. I think that before too long she'll be the same old Andrea. Right now she still wants her Mom & Dad around alot, which is not like her at all, she has always been very independent & actually acts older than her age. But I can understand that after all that she's been through. She'll be back though, I can tell when I talk to her.

Yeah for Andrea and her family - keep us posted!!! Marge ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bobby & Sue Bates" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 9:04 PM Subject: [BSChat] Update on Andrea > >From Andrea's aunt: > She's doing better all the time. She has a tentative date to go home of September 5, and even that's too long for her. She still has the trach, but she is starting to be able to eat stuff like mashed potatoes, etc. When she goes home, she won't have the trach or stomach tube or anything else. She has been walking around with a little help. So, it keeps getting better all the time. > She seems to have the same personality that she did before. I think that before too long she'll be the same old Andrea. Right now she still wants her Mom & Dad around alot, which is not like her at all, she has always been very independent & actually acts older than her age. But I can understand that after all that she's been through. She'll be back though, I can tell when I talk to her. > > > ==== BLACKSHEEP-CHAT Mailing List ==== > Creative use of your delete key is encouraged. If you disagree with the subject, CHANGE the subject. > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > >

[email protected] wrote... >Bettye & Sue, contact a pharmacist, ask for name of Manufacturer and for phone number, 1-800, preferably.< Wyeth labs is the manufacturer for the brand name, Premarin (remembering from my pharmacy days). There are a ton of generic companies out there that also produce the product under 'conjugated estrogens'. Best, SueB

Cal, Is your Lady Friend still around - she could take "Buddy" on her awful days. Perhaps I got off on the wrong foot with her in the first place - the Pet Store Woman told me that "this bird is a male" - hence the name "Buddy" - well that was OK until she got a bit older and began to lay eggs!!! No egg laying anymore, but she is grumpy at regular intervals - and gets what my Grandmother would call "Broody." My youngest Daughter told me all Buddy needs is hormones, and that would fix her right up. Thanks for your comments - at least I'm not the only person who "got took" by having on of these birds!!! She is pretty smart though - phone rings, she says Hello - doorbell rings - she says Hello. Torments the Cat by calling her in the same tone of voice that I have - here Meow!!! Clean out the cats box - and she says Ackkk, give her seeds and she says Mmmmm. She is smarter than some of my relatives, and that is a fact - so guess I'll have to keep her!!! Marge ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 3:29 PM Subject: [BSChat] Parrots and Conures and Koi, Oh My! > In a message dated 8/21/02 8:53:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > > > Hi Bettye, > > > > I have a Parrot that I would almost give up - not quite, she is OK as long > > as I am very careful with her. Can reach in and feed her and change water > > - > > but does she want to be friends - Not On Your Life, and don't touch her. > > Appropriately she is a Conure - and boy was I conned when I bought her - > > have some bite scars that I will take to my grave!!! > > > > Marge > > > > Arrgh! You have my sympathy! My experience with conures has been > uniformly bad. They are psychotic little critters even for birds. Most small > animals will warm up to their people after awhile, but conures will pick a > particular person and be fine with them and completely wackadoyhoy with > everyone else. A friendof mine was rooked (no pun intended) into buying a > one-eyed conure that turned out to be schizoid. As long as itwas in its cage > it was fine, if a little noisy-it had a call like fingernails on a > chalkboard...at 90 decibels! If it managed to get out or be let out it would > fly around in a dead panic like there were invisible snakes everywhere in the > room. And heaven help you if you tried to catch him! Psycho Bird, as my > buddy called him, had to be netted with a big blanket to be put back in his > cage. As soon as the cage door was shut, he went back to his old self. At > last my friend could satnd it no longer, being a little nervous himself, and > I inherited the little monster. A visiting lady friend noticed the cage and > walked up to it. PB hopped right up to her and sang a sweet little tune. I > was floored! Even more so when she opened the door and he popped out and sat > on her finger! Most animals trust me implicitly, but Psycho Bird never did. > Guess who he went home with...? > > I'll stiuck with my tropical fish. they don't bark, they don't shed and > they only piddle on the rug if you take them out of their tanks. =) > > Calvin B. Littlefield, IBSSG > > "Crikey! Have a look at this bloke! Hes a bit grumpy!" -- Crocodile > Hunter > > > ==== BLACKSHEEP-CHAT Mailing List ==== > Unsubscribe from the list: > Mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe&body=unsub scribe > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

In a message dated 8/22/2002 5:09:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? I didn't like it, I saw it in the Drive -in. Jeffery G. Scism, IBSSG, (<A HREF="http://blacksheep.rootsweb.com">http://blacksheep.rootsweb.com</A>) ~~ If the AOL experience is so wonderful, how come their LOGO is a picture of a hurricane in the Bermuda Triangle?

OK, I am going to cut this one off. It is a Political diatribe, and although most of us may agree there will be some who do not, so let's move on please. Sorry Aleta. Jeffery G. Scism, IBSSG, (<A HREF="http://blacksheep.rootsweb.com">http://blacksheep.rootsweb.com</A>) ~~ If the AOL experience is so wonderful, how come their LOGO is a picture of a hurricane in the Bermuda Triangle?

This is from my daughter. I think it really describes how many feel. Aleta, IBSSG, Charter Member Bo-Peep Award Ogden, Utah, USA "God sent his Singers upon the Earth, With songs of Gladness and Mirth. That they might touch the hearts of men, And bring them to Heaven again." --Longfellow In a message dated 8/22/02 7:42:08 AM Mountain Daylight Time, JonesLeeA writes: > SOMEONE FINALLY SAID IT! Hip Hip Hooray!! Finally, someone has said what > I think has been on every American's mind! This is an editorial written by > an American citizen, published in a local newspaper. > > "IMMIGRANTS, NOT AMERICANS, MUST ADAPT!!" I am tired of this nation > worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture, > here in the USA. Since the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, we have > experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Americans. However, > the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the "politically correct" > crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was > offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge > against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to America. Our > population is almost entirely comprised of descendants of immigrants. > However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our > country, and apparently some born here, need to understand. > > This idea of America, being a multi -cultural community, has served only > to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Americans, we have > our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. > This culture has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and > victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom. > > We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or > any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, > learn the language! ENGLISH. "In God We Trust" is our national motto. This > is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto > because Christian men and women, of Christian principles, founded this > nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to > display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest > you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is and > always will be part of our culture. > > If the Stars and Stripes offend you, or you don't like Uncle Sam, > then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. > We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really > don't care how you did things where you came from. Remember, "Delta is > ready when you are and they can have you there by nightfall". > > This is OUR COUNTRY, our land, and our lifestyle. Our First Amendment > gives every citizen the right to express his opinion and we will allow you > every opportunity to do so. But, once you are done complaining, whining, > and griping about our flag, our pledge, our national motto, or our way of > life, I highly encourage you to take advantage of one other great American > freedom, THE RIGHT TO LEAVE. >

Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? appears to have been the biggie, although I'd prefer A Man for All Seasons. Frankly, I don't think I've ever seen the others that were nominated for academy awards that year! :-) Sue G. IBSSG

In a message dated 8/22/02 4:59:45 AM Mountain Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > Wonder if you can contact the medical companies that produce Premarin.? Bettye & Sue, contact a pharmacist, ask for name of Manufacturer and for phone number, 1-800, preferably. Aleta, IBSSG, Charter Member Bo-Peep Award Ogden, Utah, USA "God sent his Singers upon the Earth, With songs of Gladness and Mirth. That they might touch the hearts of men, And bring them to Heaven again." --Longfellow

In a message dated 8/21/02 8:53:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > Hi Bettye, > > I have a Parrot that I would almost give up - not quite, she is OK as long > as I am very careful with her. Can reach in and feed her and change water > - > but does she want to be friends - Not On Your Life, and don't touch her. > Appropriately she is a Conure - and boy was I conned when I bought her - > have some bite scars that I will take to my grave!!! > > Marge > Arrgh! You have my sympathy! My experience with conures has been uniformly bad. They are psychotic little critters even for birds. Most small animals will warm up to their people after awhile, but conures will pick a particular person and be fine with them and completely wackadoyhoy with everyone else. A friendof mine was rooked (no pun intended) into buying a one-eyed conure that turned out to be schizoid. As long as itwas in its cage it was fine, if a little noisy-it had a call like fingernails on a chalkboard...at 90 decibels! If it managed to get out or be let out it would fly around in a dead panic like there were invisible snakes everywhere in the room. And heaven help you if you tried to catch him! Psycho Bird, as my buddy called him, had to be netted with a big blanket to be put back in his cage. As soon as the cage door was shut, he went back to his old self. At last my friend could satnd it no longer, being a little nervous himself, and I inherited the little monster. A visiting lady friend noticed the cage and walked up to it. PB hopped right up to her and sang a sweet little tune. I was floored! Even more so when she opened the door and he popped out and sat on her finger! Most animals trust me implicitly, but Psycho Bird never did. Guess who he went home with...? I'll stiuck with my tropical fish. they don't bark, they don't shed and they only piddle on the rug if you take them out of their tanks. =) Calvin B. Littlefield, IBSSG "Crikey! Have a look at this bloke! Hes a bit grumpy!" -- Crocodile Hunter

Marge, Sorry about that....it read the wrong way....however, you now know what it is/was and that you are supposed to have "special" powers/attributes for having been born with one....good luck to you!!! If you have any Irish in your side.they consider it EXTREMELY lucky! Peg R NSW Australia [email protected] Never raise your hands to your kids. It leaves your groin unprotected. Checked by Norton's AV

You forgot the old classic... If the oppospite of pro is con, is the opposite of progress congress...? CBL, IBSSG Briefly...

In a message dated 8/21/02 1:51:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > > A GREAT WAY TO LOOK AT LIFE > > Wonderful! I have never seen my philosophy of life so well put! Thank you. CBL, IBSSG Any day above the sod is a good one.

Hmm, The King and I. I really like Rodgers and Hammerstien. It is one of the videos I recently purchased. It came with the sound track CD as well. Jeff Jeffery G. Scism, IBSSG, (<A HREF="http://blacksheep.rootsweb.com">http://blacksheep.rootsweb.com</A>) ~~ If the AOL experience is so wonderful, how come their LOGO is a picture of a hurricane in the Bermuda Triangle?