In a message dated 7/5/0 1:57:22 AM, [email protected] wrote: <<Not to the Kiowa....It is celebrated religiously. Also the Kiowa Sundance differs in that there is no self torture or mutilation required. As an adopted Kiowa, hehehehe yep someone adopted me.....lol.. I am planning to the Kiowa Sundance next year. Mike >> Not torture you little stinker Mike, just sacrifice! And much fasting before the ceremony...... luv ya cuzn. Turtle/