Definitely not.....I think the positon you should go for is being paid for the use of these symbols Lobby for receiving a cut of the royalties from the use of these names...merchandising is big money....a cut of gate admissions and parking permits....a cut of the sky box revenues....a cut of the concessions ....employment guarantees of some sort.... complementary tickets/season passes and free parking (these can be used or re-sold) Let them have their show.....but, make them give you a cut of the action. Courts (and team owners...and the public) will understand this position a whole lot better and you'll have a much greater chance of success. Then...if you don't get a cut of the royalties...that's when you go for a "cease and desist" action. You'll receive a lot more sympathy and support from the public....which can make all the difference in a high profile case (and you'll want it to be a high profile case). Plot your strategy thoroughly before you start...if you play your cards right , you can use that spotlight to advance some other agenda items. Good luck.....hugs,malinda Tsalagi02@aol.com wrote: > Feel free to pass this along. > Lona > > <http://www.navajohopiobserver.com/navajohopiobserver/myheadline.asp?S=392&P > =262767&PubID=4738> > > Several major league sports teams use Native American images or > references in their team names and team logos. Do you believe these teams > should be required to change their names and/or logos? > > Yes > No > Undecided > > ==== GRANNYS-NA-PANTRY Mailing List ==== > Interested in visiting the GRANNYS-NA-PANTRY-L archives? If so, just go the RootsWeb.com website below: > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic/GRANNYS-NA-PANTRY.html May your Waters Run Gentle, With Love Care And Concern, Alece, Little Hawk,

Looking for information on the family of John Nicholson,Sr. and John Nicholson,Jr.Both were ministers in the German Baptist Brethern Church.John ,Sr. was born about 1799 and John,Jr was born 15 May 1824,Fayette County,Pa.,and he died in La Verne,Ca..John,Jr. married Charlotte Louise Pullen on 1Apr 1849. Any information on these families would be appreciated. Bright Star Have you ever Heard this before >German Baptist< May your Waters Run Gentle, With Love Care And Concern, Alece, Little Hawk,

In a message dated 9/17/00 11:13:57 AM Central Daylight Time, Tsalagi02@aol.com writes: << Great reply on the Chief's part! So right~ what a blessings to have the honor of speaking to him Alece! luvya Sali (Turtle) >> Turtle this looks as if I spoke Personally to the Chief sorry but what I was doing was sending out a note that some one else had quoted Sorry about that lol love ya May your Waters Run Gentle, With Love Care And Concern, Alece, Little Hawk,

In a message dated 9/15/00 10:07:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, HAWKL35 writes: << This Morning I have receved this It looks funny to me so I won't open it has any one out there recived this I got it so far 5 times >ABDE3 TIME DATED NOTIFICATION READ ASAP < >> NEVER EVER OPEN MAIL LIKE THIS !!! Bright Star

Ironic apology <http://www.thenavajotimes.com/National/national.html> WINDOW ROCK - Navajo Nation leaders aren't satisfied with an apology from the U.S. Bureau of Indian Affairs for historical massacres and the forced relocation of American Indians. Navajo Nation Council Speaker Edward T. Begay said, "It's sad that Indian people had to wait so long to get this apology and ironic that, when it finally comes, it is from a federal official who is an Indian himself. "The entire government needs to put forth this apology rather than an Indian accepting moral responsibility for crimes that were committed against Indian people by non-Indians," Begay added. Begay and the council's Government Services Committee Chairperson, Ervin Keeswood Sr., also noted that the mistreatment of American Indians by the federal government is not a problem of the distant past. The Government Services Committee has oversight responsibility over the Navajo Nation executive offices, which includes the president's office and the Division of General Services. Begay said, "The chronic under-funding of Indian programs, the lack of serious economic development initiatives on Indian lands, and the direct attacks on Indian sovereignty by politicians like Slade Gorton, show that the attitudes which led to the crimes that Mr. Gover is now taking blame for are alive and well in American political society." Keeswood, Sr. said, "What Indian people really need are assurances that there has been a real change in the hearts of federal politicians so that this mistreatment will never again occur. "Navajo people have been subjected to forced relocation by the United States government since 1975, and it's still going on right now in the Hopi Partitioned Lands," he said. Keeswood was referring to the Navajo-Hopi-US Land Dispute, which the federal, Navajo and Hopi governments claimed had ended in 1997 with the implementation of "accommodation agreements" - the 75-year leases between the Hopi Tribe and Navajo families on Hopi Partitioned Land (HPL). Kee Shay, 85, a relocation resister living on the HPL, is currently in Hopi tribal administrative court fighting an exclusion order issued by the Hopi Tribe to prohibit him from continuing to live on his ancestral homeland. Keeswood said, "Gover's apology is about historical mistreatment and what Indian people need is to have an end to the current mistreatment. We don't want to have to wait for another apology in another 100 years." Gover, a Pawnee Indian, apologized on behalf of the BIA during a ceremony in Washington, D.C., that marked the BIA's 175th anniversary, which was attended by hundreds of American Indian leaders, federal administrators and BIA employees on Friday (Sept. 8). He recalled that from the very beginning, the U.S. used the Office of Indian Affairs, which later became the BIA, to enforce the removal of the southeastern tribal nations. Gover said, "By threat, deceit, and force, these great tribal nations were made to march 1,000 miles to the west, leaving thousands of their old, their young and their infirm in hasty graves along the Trail of Tears." He said, "As the nation looked to the West for more land, this agency participated in the ethnic cleansing that befell the western tribes. War necessarily begets tragedy; the war for the West was no exception." The Navajo Times contacted Navajo Nation President Kelsey Begaye, Hopi Chairman Wayne Taylor, Zuni Gov. Malcolm Bowekaty and the White House for their comment on Gover's apology but none had responded by press time. [In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only.]

From: KAHAHYUHES@aol.com Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 19:29:35 EDT Subject: reply: apology of b.i.a. Iroquois Landing Illinois A number of years ago ,a man from my nation Scan doa , Laliwisaks introduced me to the term occupied country. I heard this before when mention of wars and aggression and invasion of other nations were told. Like many others , I was made to pledge allegence to a flag of the occupying government. Then fed a history of glorified lies. And yet then, there was what I could see and feel as the truth. The more I learn of truth it comes with surprises,. realizations and understandings. I was to reply about the apology from b.i.a. central. and say this has all been done before this apology. The year 1831 nations are being forced to flee their homelands under threats of extermination. And Lewis Case sec.of war for the occupying government.says " The present moral debt we owe the unhappy race is universally felt and acknowledged." In the same time line a land speculater who was indian agent and Indiana senator in that occuopied land said " there is something painful in the reflection, that by our approach they have been reduced , the true cause of their decline are to be found in us". So we see it has been felt and even painful at times to the occupying governments mind. Kinda reminds me of watching clinton squeeze his fore finger and thumb together while saying I feel your pain. Yeah he feels the pain ,he causes it. The lastest of apologies like others , is a form of release from quilt . By confessing the sins , their holy god will forgive them . Of course then everythings alright, they apologized. And tho they support the occupying government and lies and genocide they can sleep better at night. and be free from the horrors and visions of atrocities generated by a narcisstic-paranoid government of occupation.. digitally unaccepting e.c. ////// kahahyuhes Subj: Indian Affairs Head Makes Apology The head of the federal Bureau of Indian Affairs apologized Friday for the agency's ``legacy of racism and inhumanity'' that included massacres, forced relocations of tribes and attempts to wipe out Indian languages and cultures. ``By accepting this legacy, we accept also the moral responsibility of putting things right,'' Kevin Gover, a Pawnee Indian, said in an emotional speech marking the agency's 175th anniversary. Gover said he was apologizing on behalf of the BIA, not the federal government as a whole. Still, he is the highest-ranking U.S. official ever to make such a statement regarding the treatment of American Indians. [In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only.]

From: Aimfl@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 09:08:42 EDT Subject: Clinton address's hate crimes-Indians left out Clinton addresses hate crimes SEPTEMBER 14, 2000 President Bill Clinton is urging better reporting of hates crimes as well as the quick passage of legislation aimed at enhancing the government's ability to prosecute hate crimes. Clinton made his suggestions Wednesday upon the release of a new study focusing on hate crimes. Based on a decade of research, the report was authored by the Center for Criminal Justice Policy Research at Northeastern University in Massachusetts and the Justice Research and Statistics Association in Washington, DC. It was paid for by a grant by the Bureau of Justice Statistics. The report, "Improving the Quality and Accuracy of Bias Crime Statistics Nationally: An Assessment of the First Ten Years of Bias Crime Data Collection," says that police departments throughout the country do not often report hate crimes to the FBI. While 83 percent of more than 10,000 law enforcement agencies reported zero hate crimes to the FBI, 31 percent of those surveyed said they had investigated one or more incidents of hate crime. The report concludes that many more such incidents are going unreported to the FBI. As a result, Clinton is directing the Department of Justice to work with state and local law enforcement to develop a plan to improve hate crime reporting within 120 days. The report also says that victims of hate crimes often do not report them. Although the Justice Department has yet to address hate crimes among American Indians, a 1999 Bureau of Justice Statistics report that 8 out of 10 violent crimes against Indians are perpetuated by a person of another race. American Indians are also victims of violent crime at more than twice the rate of all US citizens. On Wednesday, Clinton also pressed the House to pass hate crimes legislation. The Senate in July voted in favor of legislation that enhances prosecution of violent crimes motivated by race, color, religion, or national origin authorizes federal prosecution of crimes motivated by sexual orientation, gender, or disability. The House later on Wednesday agreed in a non-binding vote to include the legislation as part of a defense appropriations bill. [In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only.]

Hi, Chatters: It was a great weekend in the chat room--some connections were sealed and some mysteries solved. Stop by today for a chance to eliminate your stumbling blocks: Monday Chats: http://huntsville.about.com/mpchat.htm (subtract 1 hr. for Central Time; 2 hrs. for Mt.; 3 hrs. for Pacific Time) 10-11 am Eastern--all states EAST of the MISSISSIPPI RIVER 1-3 pm Eastern--MID-WESTERN STATES 8 pm Eastern--SANDERSON surname chat 9 pm Eastern--COALMINERS history/genealogy chat 10 pm Eastern--ALABAMA genealogy (any surname) 11 pm Eastern--GENEALOGY RESEARCH HINTS & QUESTIONS Tuesday's Chats: http://huntsville.about.com/mpchat.htm (subtract 1 hr. for Central Time; 2 hrs. for Mt.; 3 hrs. for Pacific Time) 10-11 am Eastern--NATIVE AMERICAN...AFRICAN AMERICAN...MELUNGEON genealogy 1-3 pm Eastern--NEW ENGLAND/MID-ATLANTIC STATES genealogy 8 pm Eastern--CEMETERIES (how to research plus resources on specific cemeteries) 9 pm Eastern--(non-genealogy) Herbal Chat with RainBear from Alternatives from Nature (everyone invited!) Remember to get your SURNAMES posted on the forum. Since Friday, we've had 30 new members on the forum and 19 new messages. If you haven't been there in a while, you might want to stop by and check to see if you can make a match! http://about.delphi.com/ab-huntsville If you need instructions for the chat room or the forum, just let me know. If you missed a chat, please check the NEW chat transcript index site and read all about it. You might find someone whose looking for YOU. If so--post a note to them in the forum! Here's the transcripts' URL: http://huntsville.about.com/blrecords.htm If anyone would like to help moderate the VIRGINIA and WEST VIRGINIA chats on Sunday nights, please let me know. We'll be adding a KENTUCKY chat later this week. And the featured state this week--on Thursday night--is MISSISSIPPI......so spread the word! Jean Brandau About Guide to Huntsville AL http://huntsville.about.com email: huntsville.guide@about.com forum: http://forums.about.com/ab-huntsville chat: http://huntsville.about.com/mpchat.htm

From: MIKECHEROKEE@aol.com Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 00:58:11 EDT Subject: UNITED NATIVE AMERICA PRESS RELEASE To: undisclosed-recipients: ; "Press Release" United Native America _America _Indian _Made The Congressional Indian Caucus in Washington DC. has announced they will start the process of drafting a holiday bill to take before congress. They will circulate this bill around the country to Tribal Nations, allowing them the opportunity to have an input on the wording of the bill. Kimberly Teehee of the Indian Caucus is asking for all Tribal Nations to pass resolutions in support of this holiday or official letters of support to be sent to her office. Her address is: 2187 Rayburn House, Office Building, Washington DC. 20515, phone # 202-225-3611, Also a copy should be sent to United Native America at Rt. 6 box 243, Muldrow, Okla. 74948. It is important for each and every one of us to contact a Tribal council member and ask that they present this issue to the full council to consider drafting letters of support for the national holiday issue. The Indian Caucus has heard us loud and clear, they are fully aware that the people want this holiday to become a reality! They need Tribal support to show congress that the Indian Nations are behind this issue too. With this support congress will have to acknowledge that the majority of Americans are for this holiday. With the support of the people on the Internet United Native America has posted an online petition calling for a national holiday for Native Americans. The petition was posted on August 1st, 2000 and out of one thousand petitions online it has been in the top ten from day one. There has been over eight thousand people sign the petition as of September 15th. The URL to the holiday petition is www.petitiononline.com/indian/petition.html. There is also an online email petition at the following host web site http://kola-hq.hypermart.net/actnhna.htm. With this petition your comments are sent directly to the white house along with the pre written body of the petition. For all the information concerning the national holiday you can go to the following web site: http://mytwobeadsworth.freeservers.com/TurtleIsland3.html. From this web site you may also download a national holiday click on banner to post on your web site that will connect you to the online petition. Part two of the petition online deals with the racial exclusion of Native Americans in television, movies, music, and sports industries. It is apparent that these industries are excluding Native Americans in our society. In viewing television in this country today you would be hard pressed to say there were Indians in this country at all, this includes the national news media! United Native America at this time is working with the Native American sports council in Colorado Springs headed by Mauris Smith, On the exclusion of Native Americans in the national sports industries. On May 16th, 2000 We conducted a demonstration in Atlanta, Georgia against the Atlanta Braves and CNN owned by Ted Turner. There is not one Indian playing for the Braves, Cleveland Indians, Washington Redskins and Kansas City Chiefs to mention a few of the entire sports industries. United Native America is in the process of negotiations with Senator Don Nickles of Oklahoma, Senator Ben Nighthorse Campbell of Colorado and Senator John McCain of Arizona on how to best handle this issue. We are calling for Senate hearings, These Industries have gotten away with this for decades. They have made promise after promise to include Native Americans but have not carried it through. In time we will bring this issue before other Senators. With the understanding American Indians have endured the worlds longest holocaust and most costly in human lives, and once owned all the land in this country, there is no reason for their demise to continue today. America will only come full circle when she elects an American Indian as president of this nation. This is not Europe, Africa, Middle East or Asia, Americas true roots can only be found in THE AMERICAN INDIANS! Founder of United Native America Mike L. Graham Rt. 6 box # 243 Muldrow, Okla 74948 918-427-9894 email address: MIKECHEROKEE@aol.com <http://rodneygrant.tripod.com/> RODNEY A. GRANT-NATIVE AMERICAN ACTOR. PROFILE, FILMOGRAPHY AND CAREER Click on, check out holiday banner <http://mytwobeadsworth.freeservers.com/TurtleIsland3.html> holiday <http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Pavilion/1617/index.html> Welcome to Louve's Off the Blue Highways! holiday

From: ASher24@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:43:49 EDT Subject: columbus day - please post To: kolahq@skynet.be The Thomas M. Cooley Law School, Native American Law Students Association is planning a protest of columbus day. Our group has decided to color our information board black and put up statistics, sayings, excerpts and other items of information to educate the student body. We will also all be wearing black along with some type of identification on that Monday to show our protest of columbus day and the fact that it is a federally paid holiday. We are asking for help in collecting information for our board. If you have something you would like to share, please e-mail it to me at ASher24@aol.com. Thank you. Angela Sherigan Cooley NALSA, Council President

<A HREF="http://www.thrall.org/urr/myescape.htm">Click here: http://www.thrall.org/urr/myescape.htm</A> My Escape From Slavery >From The Century Illustrated Magazine 23, published November 1881. From Project Gutenberg. http://www.thrall.org/urr/myescape.htm <A HREF="http://www.ipl.org/ref/timeline/">Click here: IPL Slavery and Religion in America: A Time Line 1440-1866</A> IPL Slavery and Religion in America: A Time Line 1440-1866 A document that provides dated history regarding the advancement of religion amongst slaves. http://www.ipl.org/ref/timeline <A HREF="http://www.cwpost.liunet.edu/cwis/cwp/library/aaslavry.htm">Click here: The African-American: A Journey from Slavery to Freedom</A> The African-American: A Journey from Slavery to Freedom The African American A Journey from Slavery to Freedom BACKGROUND Introduction The Beginning of Slavery Slave Trade Middle Passage Slave Codes and Resistance Slavery and Race The Anti Slavery Movement The Underground Railroad EVENTS A Nation in Crisis Slavery... http://www.cwpost.liunet.edu/cwis/cwp/library/aaslavry.... <A HREF="http://www.frankcass.com/jnls/sa.htm">Click here: Frank Cass Publishers - Slavery and Abolition Home Page</A> Slavery and Abolition a journal of Slave and Post-Slave Studies. http://www.frankcass.com/jnls/sa.htm <A HREF="http://www.tolatsga.org/dela.html">Click here: Delaware</A> Delaware Delaware DELAWARE HISTORY revised 2.25.00 Note This is a single part of what will be, by my classification, about 240 compact tribal histories contact to 1900 . http://www.dickshovel.com/dela.html <A HREF="http://www.lampstras.k12.pa.us/mmeylin/teams/king/Schreck/Units/Unit-Fou r.html">Click here: British Colonial Society</A> British Colonial Society British Colonial Society Unit Four Life in British America 1700 54 Between 1700 and 1754, nearly 200,000 European immigrants left their homelands for a new start in British America. http://www.lampstras.k12.pa.us/mmeylin/teams/king/Schre... <A HREF="http://www.civilwarhome.com/civilhistory.htm">Click here: The Civil History of the Confederate States</A> The Civil History of the Confederate States A brief history of the Confederacy. http://www.civilwarhome.com/civilhistory.htm <A HREF="http://www.ciaccess.com/~jdnewby/abraham.htm">Click here: Abraham Shadd</A> Abraham Shadd Prominent historical figure whose acomplishments include, conductor on the Underground Railroad at his homes (stations) in both Delaware and Pennsylvania; In 1833, elected President of the National Convention for the Improvement of Free People of Colour and in the same year, active participant in the founding of the American Anti Slavery Society. http://www.ciaccess.com/~jdnewby/abraham.htm <A HREF="http://www.ushistory.org/tour/tour_bethel.htm">Click here: Mother Bethel A.M.E. Church</A> Mother Bethel A.M.E. Church Substantial historical article on the founding of the African Methodist Episcopal Church and its "mother church" in Philadelphia. http://www.ushistory.org/tour/_bethel.html <A HREF="http://www.scican.net/~jsnider/origpaine.html">Click here: Thomas Paine Originals</A> Thomas Paine Originals Etexts of selected works, including African Slavery in America, The Dream Interpreted and Retreat Across the Delaware. http://www.scican.net/~jsnider/origpaine.html <A HREF="http://www.aclu.org/court/usdcvhouse.html">Click here: ACLU in the Courts: United States Department of Commerce v. United States House of Representatives</A> ACLU Legal Brief in Favor of Statistical Sampling This paper was filed to defend the effort by the Clinton administration to alter the Census results with statistical guesses at what the population count should have been. http://www.aclu.org/court/usdcvhouse.html <A HREF="http://freespace.virgin.net/john.cletheroe/usa_can/usa/mas_dix.htm"> Click here: Mason-Dixon Line</A> Mason-Dixon Line Historical information. http://freespace.virgin.net/john.cletheroe/usa_can/usa/... <A HREF="http://search.aol.com/redirect.adp?appname=QBP&query=%36%fb%09%4e%da%d8% d5%f0%04%f0%d8%7a%d3%1c%16%fa%8a%7a%b5%a1%a7%84%59%c6%0c%01%25%45%ab%00%8b%26% 79%99%97%98%ce%c0%1a%cd%f1%ae%81%61%57%a5%b2%c6%2e%67%c3%93%46%db%e9%df%14%da% 66%25%6e%9e%86%e9%b9%ea%d8%0b%e2%29%bb%c1%22%a5%74%16%a9%77%b6%8a%6d%bd%d0%88% 5b%e4%db%ef%72%5b%f4%93%90%30%44%9f%89%9b%bd%89%98%d4%5c%a8%90%ab%1d%86%69%71% 85%d4%9a%1b%99%69%85%ad%94%93%7e%cc%f2%66%54%a6%7f%19%5c%8d%78%bf%85%0f%cf%4e% cc%6e%31%c2%5f%fa%79%72%e4%b4%85%06%d2%2e%58%67">Click here: Autobiography by Thomas Jefferson</A> Autobiography by Thomas Jefferson Autobiography by Thomas Jefferson Table of Contents Bibliomania Home AUTOBIOGRAPHY by Thomas Jefferson 1743 1790 With the Declaration of Independence January 6, 1821 At the age of 77, I begin to make some memoranda and state some recollections of dates facts... http://www.bibliomania.com/NonFiction/Jefferson/Autobio... <A HREF="http://www.congresslink.org/glossary.html">Click here: CongressLink< /A>

Thank you Alece for sharing & passing on this looks like a great recipe to all of us to try out someday~ Sounds absolutely yummy for the tummy..hehehe blessings, Sali (Turtle)

Great reply on the Chief's part! So right~ what a blessings to have the honor of speaking to him Alece! luvya Sali (Turtle)

Wa Do Alece for the great Post~! Great one to make a keeper for going back to info! blessings, Sali (Turtle)

"My center is giving way, my right is in retreat: situation excellent. I am attacking." --Marshal Ferdinand Foch "Knowledge comes, but wisdom lingers." --Alfred, Lord Tennyson "He who knows others is wise; / He knows himself is enlightened." --Lao-Tzu

Thank you very much for informing us of this scam Curtis! Good to know this .......... blessings, Sali (Turtle)

In a message dated 9/16/00 12:11:21 PM Central Daylight Time, friend9@pacbell.net writes: << would not have been sharing information about their actual heritage. >> Curtis This is What I think The few words above Sumes it up for me What ever I am I am Dad-gum Happy to be it, lol May your Waters Run Gentle, With Love Care And Concern, Alece, Little Hawk,

Hi, Researchers: Everyone has been asking for transcripts of the chats......so I've decided to give it a try. I have up transcripts from two of the chats last night: War of 1812 Native American I'll be recording the CIVIL WAR chat tonight......and hopefully getting it on the web tomorrow some time. Here's the URL for the transcripts: http://huntsville.about.com/blrecords.htm Jean Brandau huntsville2@home.com

Okay, time for an unrelated break. My sister, a Melungeon French teacher in KY sent this. Since we are all computer-folk [as a means of communicating with other Melungeons and Black Dutch], I felt this post was appropriate. If you don't agree, direct your discontent to Bill Gates. Curtis In Japan, they have replaced the impersonal and unhelpful Microsoft error messages with their own Japanese Haiku poetry, each only 17 syllables, five syllables in the first line, seven in the second, five in the third... A file that big? It might be very useful. But now it is gone. The Web site you seek Can not be located but Countless more exist. Chaos reigns within. Reflect, repent, and reboot. Order shall return. Aborted effort: Close all that you have worked on. You ask far too much. Windows NT crashed. I am the Blue Screen of Death. No one hears your screams. Yesterday it worked. Today it is not working. Windows is like that. First snow, then silence. This thousand dollar screen dies So beautifully. With searching comes loss And the presence of absence: "My Novel" not found. The Tao that is seen Is not the true Tao until You bring fresh toner. Stay the patient course. Of little worth is your ire. The network is down. A crash reduces Your expensive computer To a simple stone. Three things are certain: Death, taxes, and lost data. Guess which has occurred. You step in the stream, But the water has moved on. This page is not here. Out of memory. We wish to hold the whole sky, But we never will. Having been erased, The document you're seeking Must now be retyped. Serious error. All shortcuts have disappeared. Screen. Mind. Both are blank.

So, Kay, Am I to understand that the "Lumbee" is really a conglomeration of the remnants of tribes? Pushed together trying t defend themselves from the encroaching white's? I wonder if some of the tribes that were supposedly wiped out to the last person (i.e., by the measles, etc.) actually did have some survivors who ended up bonding together with other Indians who had also been dispossessed, chased off their land at the point of a musket, or simply the survivors of deliberate genocide. It is an interesting thing to think about: We don't know what happened to Roanoke. With my family story, it would sound like whatever happened, it was sudden -- and not a decision the community made together. More likely one that happened to them--with some people scattering in response to a threat. I remember a National Geographic article years ago that talked about researchers doing a thorough "dig" at the presumed site of old Roanoke. Under a fallen door -- that may have been pulled off its hinges, was the body of an old woman. Not buried, mind you, just crushed under the door. That says it all, for me. Since Europeans didn't have the tradition of burying their Grandmas under doors right outside the opening to their cabins, then she was KILLED and no one remained there to find her body and give her a proper burial. So, probably one unfriendly band of Indians attacked the Colony as a threat [and they WERE a threat -- look what ended up happening to the Indians as a result of the people of brought Roanoke to the New World!]. And then, some other friendly bands of Indians took the survivors in and raised the children. A worse scenario would be that the men were killed and the women and kids were kidnapped -- which would also account for hairy, bearded tribe members in the next several generations. [In Southeastern tribes -- beyond the Mandan whose beards and blond hair and blue eyes were apparently from a different origin: The ancient Welsh colony on the Alabama Gulf.] But whatever really happened at Roanoke, the SUPPOSED massacre was certainly used by later white colonists to justify murdering Indians. The fact that many believe as I do that the survivors were raised by Indian groups was NOT something the later colonists would have wanted to contemplate -- because believing that would have made it more difficult (ethically and morally) to wipe out Indians "in the memory of" the Lost Colonists. Probably, many of the the colonists of Roanoke WERE killed in an attack [as the Nat'l Geographic] story implies. But we--as Melungeons and Black Dutch -- are more concerned with who survived and what happened to them. If my ancestor's story is true, then some tribes deserved to be thanked, not murdered. The fact that other survivors never left the tribes is also a testament to the family they must have found when adopted into the tribe. But still, there is the specter of those that may have been forced into a tribe, bear children, and then those children grow up not knowing their real heritage. Sad, but a thing that must have happened thousands of time in the unwritten history of the world--every time one group of humans attempted to move into the lands of another group! The scary part is that the mixed off-spring from the mixing of people whose living zones pressed up against each other's--would have had the characteristics of both groups. That made them easy targets for those who objected to the mixing of the races--from BOTH sides. So, it is very likely that the offspring of Indians and Whites, of Blacks and Indians, and of Blacks and Whites were targeted for either death or being run off by Whites, especially, but also probably by some Indian groups. But it is not likely that what few independent pockets of Blacks there were, would have been hostile toward either the Indians or the Whites who wanted to mingle with them. [Just an observation -- feel free to disagree!] I am reminded of a true murderous scoundrel, General "Mad Anthony" Wayne who carried out true genocide against Indians. When he had his soldiers attack an Indian village with orders to "Kill them all!", a Captain asked him, "But Sir, What about the children?" Gen. Wayne's famous reply was: "Nits make lice! Kill 'em all!" And so they did. With impunity. Who is there to cry for the dead? The Indians, the Black Dutch, and the Melungeons. Curtis -----Original Message----- From: Kypacer@aol.com <Kypacer@aol.com> To: Melungeon-L@rootsweb.com <Melungeon-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Friday, September 15, 2000 5:13 PM Subject: [Melungeon] Re: Keyauwee, part 2 >I apologize for stopping in mid-paragraph; I got the about-to-disconnect notice Aol sends if you have been in your mailbox more than 30 minutes. >Back to footnote 436 of page 163 of Pat Elder's book: >"Lefler is unclear whether he (I assume he is referring to Lederer) found the bearded Indians among the Saponi, the Hatteras, or the Croatans, or exactly which group. Perhaps Aswell made this assumed connection when he said Melungeons were related to the bearded Keyauwee. Unfortunately, Thomas Hariot also observed men of the Pomeisoc tribe who wore beards-see Stick, Beginnings, pp.240-241." The Elder book (Continuity Press) has a lot of information on Indian tribes. > One of the most interesting parts of her book is the listing of surnames which various researchers thought to be Melungeon, Lumbee, etc. together with the counties where the surname was found and the initials of the researcher who came to this conclusion. Kay > > >==== Melungeon Mailing List ==== >Monocan Links >http://members.tripod.com/monacannation/ >http://minerva.acc.virginia.edu/vfh/vfp/monacan.html >http://falcon.jmu.edu/~ramseyil/vaindiansmonacan.htm >http://www.vmnh.org/tribes.htm >http://boe.cabe.k12.wv.us/daviscre/indians.html >http://www.montgomery-floyd.lib.va.us/compages/cechurch/guatmala/1998Pics/M onacan5.htm >