Hi, Chatters: Exciting news: Huntsville forum was promoted across all the About.com sites on Tuesday--we had a record number of viewers--the most ever! I hope your surnames were up for all the new visitors to see. Also, remember that the last 5 posts are ALWAYS shown on the articles on my website & the chat page that you log in on........so check them out and post often so yours will be showing. Pick a good SUBJECT for your post so people can get that info from a number of different promotional sites. (list your particular surname.....not just "my surnames" which doesn't tell a whole lot!) http://forums.about.com/ab-huntsville Wednesday's Schedule: http://huntsville.about.com/mpchat.htm 10-11 am Eastern--CIVIL WAR genealogy......... 1-3 pm Eastern--WESTERN/PACIFIC States genealogy..... 7--pm Eastern--NORTH CAROLINA genealogy (new!) 8 pm Eastern--CANADA genealogy....... 9-11 pm Eastern--MORGAN family genealogy..... Featured State on Thursday is........ WEST VIRGINIA Thursday's Chat Schedule: http://huntsville.about.com/mpchat.htm 10-11 am Eastern--All states WEST of the MISSISSIPPI RIVER 1-3 pm Eastern--SOUTHERN STATES genealogy 7 pm Eastern--RICHARDSON surname 8 pm Eastern--MELUNGEON genealogy (last one) 9 pm Eastern--SOUTHERN STATES genealogy 10 pm Eastern--Featured State: WEST VIRGINIA genealogy (one time only) Join us for one or all! Spread the word to your genealogy friend. If you can't make the chats, be sure and stop by the forum, any time, and post your surname queries and your research questions: http://about.delphi.com/ab-huntsville If you need instructions for the chat room or the forum, just let me know. See you soon! If you know someone who wants on the chat mailing list, have them send me an email. Jean Brandau About Guide to Huntsville AL http://huntsville.about.com email: huntsville.guide@about.com forum: http://forums.about.com/ab-huntsville chat: http://huntsville.about.com/mpchat.htm

The TRUTH is we are who we are & whether we be accepted or debated by the folks who don't believe that a Melungeon is this or that or if A Black Dutch is this or that, the fact of the matter is our research & hard work is proofing the ignorant ones wrong. I accept all colors of the Rainbow and I am proud of all bloodlines that run thru my veins. The Creator put them there. My family members I've spoken to shy from speaking of the past. My one aunt tells of the suffering our ancestors went thru during re-location times and how they were treated when they reached OKLA after the Trail. She tells me let the dead rest , leave the past in the past. They don't wish to discuss nothing about family trees..... why cause of the secrets , skeletons in the closet maybe? not sure. Pain & suffereing yes! I am Cherokee from my father, his parents both are Cherokee. My Granny has a hairline of Irish. My Grandpa's side, I have a 5 gg Grandpa who was Scottish. My grandpa's father used to call my gg grandma "Black Dutch" ...........We found that we have African American kinfolk possibly in Las Vega, NV. Many of the Five Civilized Tribes had Slaves and had children with their slaves as the Whiteman did. This is a possibility in my family. Our surname is listed under the Freedmens List of the Five Civilized Tribes on the DAWES Rolls........... We also found that many fled and hid form the Gov't to avoid racial persecution ............they hid from the whiteman.. Many things happened.......... Now the Portugese, they did bring the African people to the Americas & so on right? they mixed with the Slaves themselves and then sold the slaves and from their The White Slaveowners mixed with them and then the Five Civilized Tribes began owning their own slaves and mixed and on. So much mixing & inter-marriages, it's hard to say............. But what we've found with the Term Black Dutch is we are all connected to the Indigenous Peoples & this term isn't used outside the United States Of America.. We've researched all over the world, One Black Dutch list claimed it was German/Black Forrest/Jewish.....We proved that wrong and got kicked off the list, then we researched German, Baltic, Holland, and so on and no one heard of this term. Full-blood German folks from Germany that I personally know never heard of this, those that still live there don't know of this term. Now as for the not accepting African, this is the point I was saying about the closed minded ones......... they don't think this race is acceptable, this is they way they was brought up. I accept all, the list accepts all, We made it clear that we welcome all to our list and won't tolerate racism or hate towards others. We believe their are those with African Heritage using the term. But we are in the Y2K now and not ashamed or made to feel ashamed as our grandparents and parents were made. We must take a stand to make a change to stop the color lines. This can get frustrating as hell, but don't give in to the frustration, rely on the Creator & patience. We will find the TRUTH, just have FAITH. We all have theories, that doesn't mean one theory is right & the other is wrong.. It could possibly be a large combination of all theories in one....One just can't tell, but we have what we all have researched and that's more then I had back in 1995 when I first started researching! "Keep on Pushin" Curtis Mayfield............... blessings to all....... Turtle/ ~We are all RELATED, We are all the SAME~

In a message dated 9/13/0 2:00:05 AM, REDSKI9136@aol.com wrote: <<I know you are right. All the folks have to do, is check our archives. Do you guys remember the German list that wanted to throw me off, for asking this question:>> Now that is something to check out, what a post that was! I wish I could have put that on TV! Talk about discrimination & rude........... blessings, Turtle/

Yeppers...... I understand completely Bright Star! I need to post this comment regarding one of Curtis posts: Now about fitting in, we all have that situation, infact anyone of mixed race has the situation of acceptance with the races they are mixed with. But I tell you, your own nature helps determine where you will be & your spiritual walk will guide you & lead you to where & who you will be accepted by as a humanbeing. I do understand the feeling of not fully being accepted to those connections in which you carry bloodlines to. But there is always someone from all races who is accepting and not judgemental to the way others who are full-blooded feel. The ones with wisdom & spiritual balance no matter what amount of blood they carry will be there for you....Seek out your quest with the Creator and you'll and the acceptance you pray for will come to you........ blessings, Turtle/

In a message dated 9/13/0 1:42:47 AM, REDSKI9136 wrote: <<the children it was passed to, believed it to be a Nationallity.>> Yes & when someone is told and taught that this is what they are, that is all they know and they don't know any different til they grow older & question what exactly it is, that's if they haven't been given all the details like most of us haven't. We research, but our Aunts, Uncles, Great Aunt, Great Uncles, Grandparents & so on didn't they held a certain respect to know that and that was enough, they were silenced from asking anything further for that would have been disrespectful. Plus things were different then comparison to today's world. Secrets were kept and not discussed with or around Children. Thanks to the Creator & technology we've grown more knowledgeable to find the information & resources that have gotten us this far on the meaning of our mysterious term Black Dutch. blessings, Turtle/

<A HREF="http://www.governmentguide.com/govsite/aol/http://www.doi.gov/bureau-ind ian-affairs.html">Click here: Government Guide > http://www.doi.gov/bureau-indian-affairs.htmlhttp://www.governmentguide.com/go vsite/aol/http://www.doi.gov/bureau-indian-affairs.html</A> Bright Star

In a message dated 9/12/00 9:25:00 PM Central Daylight Time, REDSKI9136@aol.com writes: << Hi List, Have any of us, really came full circle, where are heritage is concerned? Are we still searching for answeres? Has someone found conclusive proof of one or thy other? Are we not our brothers keeper? I am concerned about the lost who are angry and tomented about this. Where we not angry and lost, not long ago? How were we treated by those who had no knowledge of the things in our heart? I ask all of you to have patience and understanding of the feelings of others. Some of us have been on this list, since its beginning. And another before that. We have had time to disuss and share our emotions, and with some who did not care, how we felt. I know that is not the case here. This list and its members have no agenda, other then solving the mysterie of Black Dutch. We have been disecting this issue for over a year now. There are many that will just be starting out on their search. We need to look at thier stories and hear there words, weather their angry or happy or totally confused. Bright Star >> You said it all truthfull and correct. Through care and understanding of others you often find your own answeres. When I first got on a genealogy list, I desided I would take my turn at doing look ups and that broke the ice for me . They found out how unlearned I was but Knew I had a willing spirit and wanted to my part. After that any help they could pass my way was sent to me. I have made many good friends by showing understanding and careing about their feelings. It always comes back to you . In a way it is like being kind to yourself. You learn about the real you and you have helped another person. Ample rewards I would say. Grandma

In a message dated 9/13/0 1:25:00 AM, REDSKI9136@aol.com wrote: << Hi List, Have any of us, really came full circle, where are heritage is concerned? Are we still searching for answeres? Has someone found conclusive proof of one or thy other? Are we not our brothers keeper? >> You know Bright Star, This that you write reminds me of a friend I met years ago when I was starting out my life as an adult.. This woman's family fled from their homeland to avoid persecution and more to South America. They learned Spanish and fit in fine. Just by looking at her & hearing her speak, you'd think she was Latino/Hispanic. She was from Palestine. Palestine has a history of similarities to other countries in which another peoples came in & used whatever means to take the land/etc. See what some did to survive. Changed their identities completely , relocated themselves, blended in, inter-married & even spoke a language different from their own in order to be safe & live peace. Sound familiar? It's possible right? What do y'all think? blessings, Turtle/

Bright Star your shinning bigtime , you go girl! blessings, Turtle/

In a message dated 9/12/00 9:25:00 PM Central Daylight Time, REDSKI9136@aol.com writes: << , it is clear that you my friend have not come to termes with your own identity, >> >> I said what I ment and ment what I said, if Chris is having a problem the let him come to me and We can discouse, I dont think it is fair to take one line from a post and use it to build a foram and it seems this is turning into a debate and I will have no part of it, May your Waters Run Gentle, With Love Care And Concern, Alece, Little Hawk,

In a message dated 9/12/00 9:01:41 PM Central Daylight Time, REDSKI9136 writes: << You make a very good point here >> You make a good point also and I mite add that before any boat landed it is clear who was here, and it's more clear what happend after they landed, May your Waters Run Gentle, With Love Care And Concern, Alece, Little Hawk,

In a message dated 9/12/00 1:45:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Tsalagi02 writes: << Your absolutely right Bright Star! We had this topic/issue long ago on the BD list. In my eyes, this all started here in the USA. People may have come here and mixed, but it did not start in other lands and land here, it happened in AMERICA. Indigenous bloods are mixed in with those who claim the term "BLACK DUTCH", INDIGENOUS ones from this land now known as the United States Of America.......... >> Turtle, I know you are right. All the folks have to do, is check our archives. Do you guys remember the German list that wanted to throw me off, for asking this question: What are the Black Dutch and what part of Germany are they from? The reply to me was very mean, and his exact words were": Its an American Thing!!! Why heck, I already knew that. Just wanted to hear them say so. LOL Bright Star

In a message dated 9/12/00 1:42:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Tsalagi02@aol.com writes: << We will keep the TRUTH prevailing by passing the TRUTH onto each generation of children who come from this mystery called BLACK DUTCH or MELUNGEON and so on. We have a choice, We know the TRUTH, We can make a difference for our CHILDREN! >> AMEN< AMEN<AMEN !!!! Teach them babies the truth. Let them shout it out. I am who I am, and I am proud. Bright Star

In a message dated 9/12/00 1:42:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Tsalagi02@aol.com writes: << Great Post Curtis! I have to say I understand & agree with your points! Thank you for sharing and expressing your views. This is what many of us believe in. It's the close minded ones who lose Curtis, they don't want to accept or absorb the TRUTH of what really was. But some suffered these trials & tribulations and wish to forget them, so they choose not to discuss or express. >> Turtle, This was a very good post. And please remember that many who have been researching Melungeon, thought they had it all sowed up. They are showing now in their Web Pages and research articles, new updated info. And this info includes NA/ AA/ Black Dutch.I suppose that is way the Mulungeon web sites were down for so long. And some you still can't access. But compare their findings from one year ago to now. If you can find any old material on the web. Bright Star

This URL is the search results from "SEARCH EUROPE" for Black Dutch. These URLs are not from Europe, obviously, but they sure turned up a LOT of them! See the additional pages you can jump to at the bottom. Curtis >>>> remember this is ALL ONE ADDRESS, so copy and paste it and don't delete or add anything or it won't work! Curtis http://www.altavista.com/cgi-bin/query?sourceid=00253983441228245179&user=befree&pg=q&q=Black+Dutch&kl=XX&search.x=30&search.y=11

In a message dated 9/12/00 1:29:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Tsalagi02@aol.com writes: << Many have used this term, for it was passed on from ancestors to future generations irregardless if to our true ancestral identities. >> Hi Turtle, You are exactly right. Many did use it and pass it on to the others in family as well. May have been to keep the secret going, or somewere down the line, the children it was passed to, believed it to be a Nationallity. Which by the way, we have not proved was not. After all, many in Pennslyvannia, will tell you they are PA Dutch. We all know the Dutch are from Holland, so how come they can outwardly say I am PA Dutch, and others can not say, I am Black Dutch.I wish someone would explain that one to me. Bright Star

Sorry. Looks like after it goes through the list software it comes out the other side unable to be used as a hypertext link. Curtis -----Original Message----- From: friend9 <friend9@pacbell.net> To: BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA-L@rootsweb.com <BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 9:16 PM Subject: [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] from Curtis: Some search engines if youremailer supports receiving html / hypertext >Search Europe > Infoseek Ultra > If your email can accept active Hyperlinks, then you should be able to jump to these search engines. Touch the Search Engine's name and a browser should open. If not, then your emailer can't support it. > > Curtis Excite > > The Electronic Library IBM infoMarket Super pages > Lycos Yahoo! > SHAREWARE.COM HotBot > Magellan OpenText Index > BigBook WebCraweler > Galaxy AltaVista > Search.com DisInformaton 100hot Web Sites > MetaCrawler WebSearch Infoseek > > > > >==== BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA Mailing List ==== >Support Leonard Peltier by visiting his website at: >http://www.freepeltier.org/ >Help change the justice system by making others aware of his innocence! > >============================== >Personalized Mailing Lists: never miss a connection again. >http://pml.rootsweb.com/ >Brought to you by RootsWeb.com. >

In a message dated 9/12/00 11:43:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, HAWKL35 writes: << Very Well put And I agree with your words here Bright Star, >> Hi Alece, Thank You !! Hugs, Bright Star

<< , it is clear that you my friend have not come to termes with your own identity, >> Hi List, Have any of us, really came full circle, where are heritage is concerned? Are we still searching for answeres? Has someone found conclusive proof of one or thy other? Are we not our brothers keeper? I am concerned about the lost who are angry and tomented about this. Where we not angry and lost, not long ago? How were we treated by those who had no knowledge of the things in our heart? I ask all of you to have patience and understanding of the feelings of others. Some of us have been on this list, since its beginning. And another before that. We have had time to disuss and share our emotions, and with some who did not care, how we felt. I know that is not the case here. This list and its members have no agenda, other then solving the mysterie of Black Dutch. We have been disecting this issue for over a year now. There are many that will just be starting out on their search. We need to look at thier stories and hear there words, weather their angry or happy or totally confused. Bright Star

In a message dated 9/12/00 10:58:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, HAWKL35@aol.com writes: << I can't help but wonder if this is the case with the Melungeons I wonder who will come forward and say My grandmother said I was a melungeon any one over 30 or 40 and can back it up, and understand I am not Putting down these people at all I was just Worndering thats all, >> Alece, You make a very good point here. And I am sure many of them are wondering as well. Have you heard conversations on the M-list, lately. Many NA are popping into the scope of their documented websites and conversations. Why, I think that even those who have been researching it, for awhile now are, viewing new points. I can remember when there were no NA on that list. But they sure seem to be there now. Maybe they are looking at the Melungeons as we are the Black Dutch?Maybe they are finally looking for that deep and mysterious aunt or uncle who looked dark? Take a look at the areas they say Melungeon come from. Well now, ask yourself what do these areas have in common?What group or type of folks lived in these areas?Were they the back woods people, who wanted no contact from outsiders? Were they Coal miners, who had a life of hell, in the mines?Where they KKK? Where they Moonshiners? Were they just good ole boys, who would kick your butt and take names later?Are they southern whites in a White Baptist South, who had to cover there mixed blood lines as well? Because if that is the case, then some of the above would be the very reason, they would keep the secret. In the South, it did not matter how mixed you were. If you were mixed, you were not white.Remember, one drop of mixed blood, could change you forever, in many peoples eyes.I believe that many Mulutto's did not want to leave the South. And those same Muluttos married Southerners. And I bet that some got away with the secret. I bet others, may have married a white and could have had a dark baby born. Well, what would happen then? Would the husband kill the White ( mulutto) mother of his child? Or would love prevail. and the secrets start? Bright Star