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    1. [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] Mail List Admin Post Please Read
    2. Dee
    3. Hi everyone! I wanted to take a minute to remind you all that you’re on this list and invite you to post your queries, questions, comments, data, etc. It has been said by Rootsweb that mail lists that aren’t active will be deleted. Let’s make sure this isn’t one of those lists!! Please remember the following when posting: Stick close to the topic of the list. Sometimes posts will go a tad off…that’s ok. But please no politics, no chain letters and don’t be rude to others. If you don’t like something that was posted please contact me at pcmom@aol.com <mailto:pcmom@aol.com> and I’ll look in to it. You all have a great day and start posting! :-) Dee List Admin

    01/01/2019 11:03:18
    1. [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] name origins and family stories
    2. Family stories are not always true - my aunt always said that my great grandmother Vest's last name was really West and was German and pronounced as Vest. Well, through Rootsweb originally and then Facebook and now DNA have found Vest relatives going back at least 8 or more generations and they wee all Vest's. Had always thought they were German, but now it seems some think the surname was Welch. And, to make a funny story. When I was working went to lunch one day with a co-worker and we discussed genealogy and I said I was working on my Vest genealogy she looked at me funny and said my mother married a Vest, and turned out they were from the same area and her first cousin has turned out to be my 8th cousin. Nadine

    05/10/2018 08:09:51
    1. [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] Re: BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA Digest, Vol 7, Issue 2
    2. Priscilla Beggs Principal RE Broker licensed in OR
    3. I thought Black Dutch referred to people of Cherokee ancestry and other immigrant nationalities. -----Original Message----- From: myravgormley@gmail.com <myravgormley@gmail.com> On Behalf Of Myra Vanderpool Gormley Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 8:48 AM To: black-dutch-america@rootsweb.com Subject: [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] Re: BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA Digest, Vol 7, Issue 2 The "Black Dutch" story is a popular one among many from the states you mentioned. It is not really an ethnic group, but in most instances you will trace back to someone with a Germanic (German or Swiss) background -- usually who came to America in the Colonial period. Its real origins of the term is believed to refer to the language/dialect (Plattdeutsch) spoken by the early immigrants that became "black dutch" term in America. It does not mean Dutch (Netherlands) and does not refer to Black ancestry. You can google Plattdeutsch to learn more. Since the Internet has become so widely used by genealogists, all sorts of tales have popped up trying to claim this term to fit their ethnicity or family stories. Also, you may learn that your family did not really know the origins of the tales they handed down and most of us have some of them. Good luck with your research. Myra On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 6:18 AM, <tsni843@sunflower.com> wrote: > My dad used to say we were Black-Dutch. But not sure what line. My > maiden names was Florance, but others of that line spelled it as > Florence, Flourance and think FleurAunce. Other surnames are: > Clayton, Vest, Hays, Rush, Piland, Johnson, Bird, Bouldin, Connally, > Whitescarver, Wyatt to name a few. Seem to have mostly been in > Arkansas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Tennessee, Texas and Virginia. Several > lines were here in early Colony days. Did have my DNA done and I was > 80% Great Britain and > 15 % Scandinavian (think form my Mom's line) - had trace amounts of > Italy/ Greece, Iberian Peninsula, Finland, North Russia, East European, Ireland, > and Eastern European Jewish, My dad also said we were Heinz 57. My > sister > had hers done and she showed a trace of Native American. I expected a > bit more Italy/Greece as I have a genetic anemia called Thalassemia > which is usually Mediterranean. Luckily mine is the minor kind. > > Nadine > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/ > black-dutch-america@rootsweb.com/ > > Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/ > black-dutch-america@rootsweb.com/ > > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal > RootsWeb community > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/black-dutch-america@rootsweb.com/ Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/black-dutch-america@rootsweb.com/ Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

    05/09/2018 05:05:56
    1. [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] Re: BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA Digest, Vol 7, Issue 2
    2. Myra Vanderpool Gormley
    3. The "Black Dutch" story is a popular one among many from the states you mentioned. It is not really an ethnic group, but in most instances you will trace back to someone with a Germanic (German or Swiss) background -- usually who came to America in the Colonial period. Its real origins of the term is believed to refer to the language/dialect (Plattdeutsch) spoken by the early immigrants that became "black dutch" term in America. It does not mean Dutch (Netherlands) and does not refer to Black ancestry. You can google Plattdeutsch to learn more. Since the Internet has become so widely used by genealogists, all sorts of tales have popped up trying to claim this term to fit their ethnicity or family stories. Also, you may learn that your family did not really know the origins of the tales they handed down and most of us have some of them. Good luck with your research. Myra On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 6:18 AM, <tsni843@sunflower.com> wrote: > My dad used to say we were Black-Dutch. But not sure what line. My maiden > names was Florance, but others of that line spelled it as Florence, > Flourance and think FleurAunce. Other surnames are: > Clayton, Vest, Hays, Rush, Piland, Johnson, Bird, Bouldin, Connally, > Whitescarver, Wyatt to name a few. Seem to have mostly been in Arkansas, > Oklahoma, Missouri, Tennessee, Texas and Virginia. Several lines were here > in early Colony days. Did have my DNA done and I was 80% Great Britain and > 15 % Scandinavian (think form my Mom's line) - had trace amounts of Italy/ > Greece, Iberian Peninsula, Finland, North Russia, East European, Ireland, > and Eastern European Jewish, My dad also said we were Heinz 57. My > sister > had hers done and she showed a trace of Native American. I expected a bit > more Italy/Greece as I have a genetic anemia called Thalassemia which is > usually Mediterranean. Luckily mine is the minor kind. > > Nadine > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/ > black-dutch-america@rootsweb.com/ > > Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/ > black-dutch-america@rootsweb.com/ > > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community >

    05/09/2018 09:47:41
    1. [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] Re: BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA Digest, Vol 7, Issue 2
    2. My dad used to say we were Black-Dutch. But not sure what line. My maiden names was Florance, but others of that line spelled it as Florence, Flourance and think FleurAunce. Other surnames are: Clayton, Vest, Hays, Rush, Piland, Johnson, Bird, Bouldin, Connally, Whitescarver, Wyatt to name a few. Seem to have mostly been in Arkansas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Tennessee, Texas and Virginia. Several lines were here in early Colony days. Did have my DNA done and I was 80% Great Britain and 15 % Scandinavian (think form my Mom's line) - had trace amounts of Italy/ Greece, Iberian Peninsula, Finland, North Russia, East European, Ireland, and Eastern European Jewish, My dad also said we were Heinz 57. My sister had hers done and she showed a trace of Native American. I expected a bit more Italy/Greece as I have a genetic anemia called Thalassemia which is usually Mediterranean. Luckily mine is the minor kind. Nadine

    05/09/2018 07:18:09
    1. [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] Admin Post Please Read
    2. Dee
    3. Hi everyone! As you may have noticed, Rootsweb mail lists are back on-line! Yay! If you need help navigating the new system: http://home.rootsweb.ancestry.com/listindexes/listsHelp <http://home.rootsweb.ancestry.com/listindexes/listsHelp> I hope everyone will begin utilizing this list and the many others available at Rootsweb. If you have any questions about this list please fee free to send me a message! Have a great day! Dee Admin http://www.genlady.com <http://www.genlady.com/>

    04/06/2018 12:36:06
    1. [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] Stephen town, New York Census 1850 Peter Merchant married to (MIP)
    2. Elnora Mayfield
    3. Mother, Grandmother etc. Told me I wasI descended from Black Dutch. I have been researching family for years and I have a Brick Wall in Stephentown . DOES (MIP) STAND FOR NATIVE AMERICAN or a first name of a SWEDISH LADY? Mothers Line….I am FTDNA…X2b4 ….Human Heritage is unknown...I am a match to a lady who believes she is descended from slaves in Virginia and white family. Adopted! Project Match: FTDNA Acadia Metis Mothers Acadia -American Indian Odell-Parker-Merchant-Parker ...Stephentown family takes me to ( Pemaquid Abenaki Samoset b c 1590). Cape Cod, MA Lydia Nickerson. Many deny this! Mother’s father from the FENS in Norfolk England. Believe my X2b4 comes from East Anglia but I also show 3-5 Native Americans. Family in Stephentown, DUTCH,FRENCH, SWEDISH, IRISH, & GERMAN.. LANDED AT CAPE COD, WESTERLY, RHODE ISLAND & VIRGINIA etc. MANY TRAVELED TO PORT ROYAL, Nova Scotia. RUNNING FROM THE Indians and wars. Court house burned in Troy, NY abt. 1900. Thank you for accepting me to the group. I hope you can make sense of this. Elnora Mayfield Swartz Creek, MI

    05/19/2017 03:04:21
    1. [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] introduction
    2. Sid & Nadine Snider via
    3. My dad always said we were Heinz 57 and Black Dutch. My maiden name was Florance and my uncle once sent some history of the name he said he found in a library in California. His version is that a Roman soldier captured the son a Teutonic tribesman and took the kid to Rome where he was educated as a scribe and then his descendants made their way to France and England. I do know that our direct line came from England to America prior to the Revolutionary War. The name has been spelled as Florance, Florence, FlurAunce, and Flourance. Think they first were in Virginia and then North Carolina, moving to Missouri in the 1840s. Other of his lines include Rush, Vest, Clayton, Johnson, think Piland, and Lea and maybe Lee. I have Thalassemia Minor (mild form), one first cousin from this Florance line also has it. It is usually a Mediterranean disease, which could indicate an Italian descent, but have heard that pockets of it have been found in the Appalachians. My maternal great grandmother was a Vest, and think some pictures of her look as if she could be part Native American. Her daughter my grandmother had very black hair and a rather olive complexion. My dad had very black hair and his skin where the sun hit was rather dark. One cousin said he has heard we might have some Native American background. My Vest great grandmother married a Clayton and was widowed young and then married a Knott, and after his death married a Hayes and they lived in Hominy, Oklahoma. Have heard that Mr. Hayes was Osage Indian. If anyone knows of anything of any of these surnames would be interested in hearing from you and sharing information. Nadine --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

    10/20/2014 04:16:28
    1. Re: [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] Lewis in Orange County, NY and nearby and in NJ
    2. Myra Vanderpool Gormley
    3. Keep an open mind when looking at old photos. They can be ​deceptive. Few photos exist of ordinary American families before 1850s and most of what we find date from after the Civil War and what we actually find of many works are several generations removed from the actual photographic creation, which means it may have been "enhanced" or edited, etc -- or just changed during the reproduction (copying) process. That's why so many of our ancestors look so "dark"... plus a lighting problem in earlier time periods. In genealogy, focus on the specific family of interest, especially when researching common surnames. Trying to nail down all the LEWIS families in American or New York in 1800s and tie them together even to a particular state/county is a huge challenge. Narrow your focus; provide more details about what resources you have consulted and your conclusions regarding those records. What is the family unit of intererest and what what have you proven specifically to link your family to a particular time and place? Cheers Myra On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 7:44 PM, Jerrold Brosious <jwbrosious@att.net>wrote: > Thanks Fran for replying to my query. I'd love to know what you can tell > me of your earliest known generation of Lewis in your family----the name of > the Lewis ancestor and spouse and at least approximate dates of birth and > death. Also of great interest to me is, do you know where they may have > come from before Tennessee, where they first lived after arriving in > "America" ? > > Thanks very much. > Jerry in Minneapolis, Minnesota > > > ________________________________ > From: Fran Burcham <fburcham@mokancomm.net> > To: black-dutch-america@rootsweb.com > Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 3:38 PM > Subject: Re: [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] Lewis in Orange County, NY and nearby > and in NJ > > > Mr. Brosious, Lewis is a name used many times in my family and my Dad told > me we were Black Dutch. He did not know what that meant though. Our Lewis > moved from TN to AR in 1870. Good luck in your search. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerrold Brosious" <jwbrosious@att.net> > To: <black-dutch-america@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2013 9:41 PM > Subject: [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] Lewis in Orange County,NY and nearby and in > NJ > > > Hello, this is Jerry Brosious in Minneapolis, Minnesota and this is my > first > time on this List. > > The LEWIS Surname in ORANGE COUNTY, NEW YORK and adjoining regions are the > areas > of interest including New Jersey, as OC on its southerly border adjoins NJ. > Also > the adjoining counties of Orange County, NY as in earlier times there were > boundary changes and splits----Rockland, Ulster and Sullivan counties may > come > into play as to my query. Or for that matter even across the Delaware River > into adjoining counties in Pennsylvania in that tri-State region. > > Does anyone know of any families/individuals in the above described region > with > the surname LEWIS living there in the 1700's? Of course I am writing to > this > List in the belief, but no documentation, that the family I am pursuing had > in > addition to what I think was their predominant European ancestral origins, > also > other non-European origins and what that may be I do not know. For me > this question arose based on photos of some family members born in the > early > to > mid 1800s who appear at first glance essentially Euro but also something > else > that (for these certain people) strongly suggest something in > addition-----Native American/Indian or possibly African?---or both. This > Lewis family has been considered British and also possibly some Dutch > and/or > German.....all of these tying in with documented ethnic groups in this > region in > the 1700s. > > A second question is, does anyone know of any variations of the spelling of > this > name Lewis in this region in the 1700's that may serve as clues in my > search, or > maybe a better question is, is there another surname from which it could > have > been derived/corrupted? Ludwig, Ludowick, Louwes, Lovyse etc. ? > > I am very excited at the prospect of getting any replies! > > Jerry > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

    06/15/2013 11:27:46
    1. Re: [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] William Lewis
    2. Jerrold Brosious
    3. Your subject line "William Lewis" really caught my eye as I recently posted a query to this List about my Lewis family of Orange County, New York and surrounding region---Rockland, Ulster and Sullivan counties as well as adjoining region of New Jersey and Pennsylvania.   However, you did not write a message.  Does your William Lewis pertain to my query?  Thanks.   Jerry in Minneapolis   ________________________________ From: LAVADA ALLSHOUSE <lallshouse1@mac.com> To: "black-dutch-america@rootsweb.com" <black-dutch-america@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 10:28 AM Subject: [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] William Lewis Sent from my iPad ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

    06/15/2013 06:21:34
    1. [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] William Lewis
    2. LAVADA ALLSHOUSE
    3. Sent from my iPad

    06/15/2013 02:28:38
    1. Re: [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] Lewis in Orange County, NY and nearby and in NJ
    2. Jerrold Brosious
    3. Thanks Fran for replying to my query.  I'd love to know what you can tell me of your earliest known generation of Lewis in your family----the name of the Lewis ancestor and spouse and at least approximate dates of birth and death.  Also of great interest to me is, do you know where they may have come from before Tennessee, where they first lived after arriving in "America" ?   Thanks very much. Jerry in Minneapolis, Minnesota ________________________________ From: Fran Burcham <fburcham@mokancomm.net> To: black-dutch-america@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 3:38 PM Subject: Re: [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] Lewis in Orange County, NY and nearby and in NJ Mr. Brosious,  Lewis is a name used many times in my family and my Dad told me we were Black Dutch. He did not know what that meant though.  Our Lewis moved from TN to AR in 1870.  Good luck in your search. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerrold Brosious" <jwbrosious@att.net> To: <black-dutch-america@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2013 9:41 PM Subject: [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] Lewis in Orange County,NY and nearby and in NJ Hello, this is Jerry Brosious in Minneapolis, Minnesota and this is my first time on this List. The LEWIS Surname in ORANGE COUNTY, NEW YORK and adjoining regions are the areas of interest including New Jersey, as OC on its southerly border adjoins NJ. Also the adjoining counties of Orange County, NY as in earlier times there were boundary changes and splits----Rockland, Ulster and Sullivan counties may come into play as to my query. Or for that matter even across the Delaware River into adjoining counties in Pennsylvania in that tri-State region. Does anyone know of any families/individuals in the above described region with the surname LEWIS living there in the 1700's? Of course I am writing to this List in the belief, but no documentation, that the family I am pursuing had in addition to what I think was their predominant European ancestral origins, also other non-European origins and what that may be I do not know. For me this question arose based on photos of some family members born in the early to mid 1800s who appear at first glance essentially Euro but also something else that (for these certain people) strongly suggest something in addition-----Native American/Indian or possibly African?---or both. This Lewis family has been considered British and also possibly some Dutch and/or German.....all of these tying in with documented ethnic groups in this region in the 1700s. A second question is, does anyone know of any variations of the spelling of this name Lewis in this region in the 1700's that may serve as clues in my search, or maybe a better question is, is there another surname from which it could have been derived/corrupted? Ludwig, Ludowick, Louwes, Lovyse etc. ? I am very excited at the prospect of getting any replies! Jerry ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

    06/14/2013 01:44:50
    1. Re: [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] Lewis in Orange County, NY and nearby and in NJ
    2. Fran Burcham
    3. Mr. Brosious, Lewis is a name used many times in my family and my Dad told me we were Black Dutch. He did not know what that meant though. Our Lewis moved from TN to AR in 1870. Good luck in your search. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerrold Brosious" <jwbrosious@att.net> To: <black-dutch-america@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2013 9:41 PM Subject: [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] Lewis in Orange County,NY and nearby and in NJ Hello, this is Jerry Brosious in Minneapolis, Minnesota and this is my first time on this List. The LEWIS Surname in ORANGE COUNTY, NEW YORK and adjoining regions are the areas of interest including New Jersey, as OC on its southerly border adjoins NJ. Also the adjoining counties of Orange County, NY as in earlier times there were boundary changes and splits----Rockland, Ulster and Sullivan counties may come into play as to my query. Or for that matter even across the Delaware River into adjoining counties in Pennsylvania in that tri-State region. Does anyone know of any families/individuals in the above described region with the surname LEWIS living there in the 1700's? Of course I am writing to this List in the belief, but no documentation, that the family I am pursuing had in addition to what I think was their predominant European ancestral origins, also other non-European origins and what that may be I do not know. For me this question arose based on photos of some family members born in the early to mid 1800s who appear at first glance essentially Euro but also something else that (for these certain people) strongly suggest something in addition-----Native American/Indian or possibly African?---or both. This Lewis family has been considered British and also possibly some Dutch and/or German.....all of these tying in with documented ethnic groups in this region in the 1700s. A second question is, does anyone know of any variations of the spelling of this name Lewis in this region in the 1700's that may serve as clues in my search, or maybe a better question is, is there another surname from which it could have been derived/corrupted? Ludwig, Ludowick, Louwes, Lovyse etc. ? I am very excited at the prospect of getting any replies! Jerry ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

    06/14/2013 09:38:55
    1. [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] Lewis in Orange County, NY and nearby and in NJ
    2. Jerrold Brosious
    3. Hello, this is Jerry Brosious in Minneapolis, Minnesota and this is my first time on this List.   The LEWIS Surname in ORANGE COUNTY, NEW YORK and adjoining regions are the areas of interest including New Jersey, as OC on its southerly border adjoins NJ. Also the adjoining counties of Orange County, NY as in earlier times there were boundary changes and splits----Rockland, Ulster and Sullivan counties may come into play as to my query.  Or for that matter even across the Delaware River into adjoining counties in Pennsylvania in that tri-State region. Does anyone know of any families/individuals in the above described region with the surname LEWIS living there in the 1700's?  Of course I am writing to this List in the belief, but no documentation, that the family I am pursuing had in addition to what I think was their predominant European ancestral origins,  also other non-European origins and what that may be I do not know.  For me this question arose based on photos of some family members born in the early to mid 1800s who appear at first glance essentially Euro but also something else that (for these certain people) strongly suggest something in addition-----Native American/Indian or possibly African?---or both.    This Lewis family has been considered British and also possibly some Dutch and/or German.....all of these tying in with documented ethnic groups in this region in the 1700s. A second question is, does anyone know of any variations of the spelling of this name Lewis in this region in the 1700's that may serve as clues in my search, or maybe a better question is, is there another surname from which it could have been derived/corrupted?   Ludwig, Ludowick, Louwes, Lovyse etc. ? I am very excited at the prospect of getting any replies! Jerry

    06/08/2013 01:41:12
    1. [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] (no subject)
    2. Michael O'Hearn
    3. Just subscribed. Looking for information and records on Catherine Johnson who married John Hearn (1764-1812) in County Kilkenny Ireland. Based on autosomal DNA matches, Catherine is believed to be a great-great-granddaughter of Jan Berentse Van Driest (1648-1697) and wife Jannetje Willens Van Barkelo (1659-1718) of New York, she being a daughter of Cornelia Van Salee (1638-1666), daughter of Anthony Janszoon "Turk" Van Salee (circa 1607-1676) and wife Grietje Reyniers (1602-1666) of New York. -- Michael O'Hearn

    12/04/2012 09:11:45
    1. [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] Gustavus Croston Descendants
    2. Laura Sherfey
    3. I am trying to discover my genealogy, and so far have learned that the Black Dutch part of my West Virginia genealogy is related to at least one of Gustavus Croston's descendants. I am trying to figure out which one(s). Does anyone know which sons and their descendants became known as the "Leathernecks," and which ones became known as the "Black Dutch?" I obtained these terms from having read a transscript of a presentation dated 1997. which was on a website. Thanks for your help.

    07/15/2009 02:16:32
    1. Re: [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] goins family
    2. Bates, Christine P
    3. I hope this actually makes it to the list. Many have probably already looked, but if you Google "The Dinsmore Collection", which is a collection of books covering the Colonial Period, you can see what the early historians thought the origin may be for the different ethnicities along the Eastern/Southern U.S. Some of the earlier books seem to think the Lost Colony group assimilated with the natives in the area. One of the books has pictures of some of the people with English surnames, probably about the 5th or 6th generation from the landing, and interviews uncover that these people know their origins. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Nassau [mailto:melungeonorigin@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 6:35 AM To: black-dutch-america@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] goins family Goins, Goin, Goings, Going is a type name of the Melungeons and several other mixed groups such as the Goinstown Indians of Henry and Patrick counties, Virginia, and Rockingham, Stokes and Surry counties, North Carolina. Here are some links from the Open Directory Melungeon page: Jack Goins Research - Dedicated to research on the northeast Tennessee and southwest Virginia Melungeon communities. Includes information on DNA research as well as information about his book. Gowen Research Foundation - Information on families with the name Gowen, including variations. This includes the most common Melungeon name, Goins, Goin, Goings, Going, and others. Search the newsletters. Graysville Melungeons - An article on the anthropology of the Melungeons of Roane, Rhea and Hamilton counties, TN, locally known as Goins, from the most common name. Black Dutch ( http://www.geocities.com/mikenassau/BlackDutch.htm ) - Six different meanings for the term Black Dutch or Black German. What is a Melungeon? - Description of several groups with this name. Mike Cindy McLaughlin <csrmclaughlin@hotmail.com> wrote: I may be stating something everyone knows already, but I read that Goins (and its variations) is a Melungeon name. What is the connectionm if any, between Meluneons and Black Dutch? Cindy McLaughlinDripping Springs TX > From: santafarr@msn.com> To: black-dutch-america@rootsweb.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 06:38:55 +0000> Subject: [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] goins family> > I too have that newspaper article about the Goins family. I'll have to dig it out, and re-read it. I grew up in that Texas area,near Denton. If I remember rightly, the grandmother died, and the family found old handwritten documents, and photos she had saved, and hid under the bed, or in the wall--don't remember which. There are probably some of the family still living in that little town who know all of this. My maternal grandmother was called 'black dutch'. She never mentioned it, but some of the family did. Her family were from TN, She married, and they migrated to TX, where we were all born and raised. She had long coal black hair, eyes, and a dark skin tone. She always said that she didn't know much about her family history. I was able to trace back and find an old census-type document that listed her mother as indian(cherokee). Her husband had been married before, and that wife was also listed as indian. They had 3 children who, when she died of an illness, wer!> e raised by the 2nd wife. My Mother, and her 4 sisters were also dark, with back, coarse hair, and brown eyes. My Dad had blue eyes and light hair--so I inheirited his lighter skin, but my Mother's dark hair. My Dad was a descendant of Quanah Parker's white wife-Cynthia Ann Parker. I have all of those genealogy records,but my Mother's maternal side remains a mystery. Her Father's side--the Baileys--I have their records too. Her grandfather also married an indian lady, referred to as 'grandma Patsy", in old family letters. I think if your ancestors settled in TN, than most likely you can find indian blood. It was common that early, single men settlers married indian women. alot of them were beautiful, and white women were scarce. Roberta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_j an ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

    02/04/2008 12:11:11
    1. Re: [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] goins family
    2. Mike Nassau
    3. Goins, Goin, Goings, Going is a type name of the Melungeons and several other mixed groups such as the Goinstown Indians of Henry and Patrick counties, Virginia, and Rockingham, Stokes and Surry counties, North Carolina. Here are some links from the Open Directory Melungeon page: Jack Goins Research - Dedicated to research on the northeast Tennessee and southwest Virginia Melungeon communities. Includes information on DNA research as well as information about his book. Gowen Research Foundation - Information on families with the name Gowen, including variations. This includes the most common Melungeon name, Goins, Goin, Goings, Going, and others. Search the newsletters. Graysville Melungeons - An article on the anthropology of the Melungeons of Roane, Rhea and Hamilton counties, TN, locally known as Goins, from the most common name. Black Dutch ( http://www.geocities.com/mikenassau/BlackDutch.htm ) - Six different meanings for the term Black Dutch or Black German. What is a Melungeon? - Description of several groups with this name. Mike Cindy McLaughlin <csrmclaughlin@hotmail.com> wrote: I may be stating something everyone knows already, but I read that Goins (and its variations) is a Melungeon name. What is the connectionm if any, between Meluneons and Black Dutch? Cindy McLaughlinDripping Springs TX > From: santafarr@msn.com> To: black-dutch-america@rootsweb.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 06:38:55 +0000> Subject: [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] goins family> > I too have that newspaper article about the Goins family. I'll have to dig it out, and re-read it. I grew up in that Texas area,near Denton. If I remember rightly, the grandmother died, and the family found old handwritten documents, and photos she had saved, and hid under the bed, or in the wall--don't remember which. There are probably some of the family still living in that little town who know all of this. My maternal grandmother was called 'black dutch'. She never mentioned it, but some of the family did. Her family were from TN, She married, and they migrated to TX, where we were all born and raised. She had long coal black hair, eyes, and a dark skin tone. She always said that she didn't know much about her family history. I was able to trace back and find an old census-type document that listed her mother as indian(cherokee). Her husband had been married before, and that wife was also listed as indian. They had 3 children who, when she died of an illness, wer!> e raised by the 2nd wife. My Mother, and her 4 sisters were also dark, with back, coarse hair, and brown eyes. My Dad had blue eyes and light hair--so I inheirited his lighter skin, but my Mother's dark hair. My Dad was a descendant of Quanah Parker's white wife-Cynthia Ann Parker. I have all of those genealogy records,but my Mother's maternal side remains a mystery. Her Father's side--the Baileys--I have their records too. Her grandfather also married an indian lady, referred to as 'grandma Patsy", in old family letters. I think if your ancestors settled in TN, than most likely you can find indian blood. It was common that early, single men settlers married indian women. alot of them were beautiful, and white women were scarce. Roberta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

    02/03/2008 11:34:46
    1. Re: [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] origins and family legends
    2. Myra Vanderpool Gormley
    3. Peggy, it would be interesting to know who your Cherokee folks were and their part in (or if some had memory of) the Cherokee War in Texas in the summer of 1839 and how the term "Black Dutch" came to be used by your folks and approximately when. Were these full-blood or mixed blood families? Did they stay in Texas or remove to Indian Territory (now Oklahoma) or to Mexico? No doubt the attitude of Texans and Mirabeau Lamar, in particular, regarding all Indians, not just Cherokees, was frightening and that fear would have been passed down to the children. For those who might not be familiar with this event, what's known as the Cherokee War in Texas took place in the summer of 1839 [the infamous Trail of Tears of the removal of the Cherokees from the Southeast took place in 1838/9] when a force of several hundred warriors led by the Cherokee chief Duwali (a half-blood, also called "The Bowl") met Texas forces in the battle of the Neches near the site of present Tyler, Texas. More than 100 Indians, including Duwali, were killed (Duwali was then 83 years old) and the remaining Cherokees were driven across the Red River into Indian Territory. Some Cherokees continued to live a fugitive existence in Texas, while others took up residence in Mexico. However, when Sam Houston was elected to a second presidential term in 1841, he inaugurated an Indian policy calculated to forestall future hostilities with immigrant tribes. As a result of his peace policy, treaties were concluded with the remaining Texas Cherokees in 1843 and 1844. --Myra

    02/02/2008 02:08:54
    1. Re: [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] origins and family legends
    2. In 1839 in the Republic of Texas it was not the U. S. soldiers who were driving Indians out of Texas.? It was the Texas Rangers under the orders of President Mirabeau Lamar.? No one was safe in Texas if they were American Indians?from any tribe.? My folks were Cherokees and those who were not killed by the Texas Rangers at the Battle of the Neches in July of 1839,? were either captured and sent north to Indian Territory (if they were women or children),? or?scattered all over and even down into Mexican territory. ??Up until even my own grandmother died,? she was afraid to talk about being of Cherokee descent because of the fear instilled in her when she was young,? long after the actual danger of losing land was gone,? but still suffereing racial predjudice in Texas.??There was plenty to fear in Texas in 1838-9 if one were from any Indian tribe,? and any story one could concoct that might save them from losing home and land and being sent up north to Indian territory is prob! ably plausible.? I have heard many accounts of Black Dutch being used to explain such racial characteristics as being some kind of exotic European background,? which might be considered acceptable.? As to whether these are true,? I cannot say.? I only know that in Texas at that time it would have been entirely understandable. Peggy? -----Original Message----- From: Myra Vanderpool Gormley <myravg@wamail.net> To: black-dutch-america@rootsweb.com Sent: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 4:28 pm Subject: Re: [BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA] origins and family legends What would be interesting would to be to learn the surnames of this family the man in Denton, Texas claims were Cherokee and learn how it was that he was able to trace them. However, this story sounds so similar to the "three brothers came to America" legend that has been told often -- and without any genealogical evidence to back it up -- that I question it. If you look at the story more closely, why would anyone believe it? Just because I claim to be German doesn't make it so. What reasons did this family have to hide its heritage? Who were they hiding from and why? Despite the legends to the contrary, in 1838/9 (time of the Trail of Tears) no U.S. soldiers were going to go into Texas (which was a Republic, not a U.S. state) to force Cherokees to go anywhere. Claiming to be another ethnicity would not change what the neighbors thought, or a family's looks, or enable them to "blend in" with Anglo-Saxon families, now would it? A study of the Cherokee tribe and its various migrations (volunteer and forced) disagrees with this family legend. Cherokees were first reported in Texas in 1807, when a small band, probably an offshoot of the Arkansas settlements, established a village on the Red River. To learn more about the Cherokees in Texas, see: http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/CC/bmc51.html and http://digital.library.okstate.edu/chronicles/v001/v001p179.html Not all the Dutch had blond hair and blue eyes nor did our German ancestors. Many of them were quite dark -- despite the Hollywood image of the Dutch and Germans! While the "Black Dutch" legend probably will live on and people will believe whatever it is they want to (sometimes family stories are hard to give up), the genealogical search is the challenge. Like many others I wish I had asked my grandmother more about her "Black Dutch" line, but through a process of elimination of her Scotch-Irish, French and English lines, the signs all point to the Black Dutch being her German families from South Carolina in the 1700s. The fun and digging continues. --Myra Vanderpool Gormley >I am fascinated by all the theories regarding "Black Dutch" and it's > true meaning. My grandfather on my father's side was said to be Black > Dutch. He had black hair and very dark complexion. His mother was > German. Our family always interpreted the term to mean he inherited > darker German looks due to the region of the country his mother's > people came from. She had many children and an old photo of all of > them shows clearly who inherited the dark hair and complexions. > Interestingly, she did not seem to be dark complected, but every > generation of our family since then has at least one person who > reflects this trait. > > Recently, I read a first-hand account of an old man in Denton, Texas > who said he had uncovered his family's secret which was American Indian > ancestry. He recounted that his grandmother told him many Cherokees > simply walked off the Trail of Tears to pursue a life on their own. > His ancestors had done just that and had settled in north central > Texas. They passed themselves off as Black Dutch so no one would > question their origin. They did this so effectively that the man's > family never knew the secret until he discovered a box of his > grandmother's things and began remembering the stories she had told > him. He was able to put the puzzle together then. > > My theory is that the descendants of German origin with dark > complexions were called Black Dutch to differentiate them from other > Germans or perhaps confirm the geographical area they came from. The > term was adopted by those who wanted to protect American Indians or by > the Indians themselves to better blend in with white Americans. > > Thanks for the thought-provoking information, > Linda Sutton > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BLACK-DUTCH-AMERICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com

    02/01/2008 04:59:54