John Bibby I might not be interpreting your question correctly since you have been on the board for quite awhile - but here is my answer to the critical question of how to handle sources which cover multiple individuals for what it is worth. The essence of the whole thing is what is choosen as the Master Source. This because way down the line it can difficult to change horses in mid stream. ____ Take, for instance, census data - I am in the US and don't have any experience with non-US census info so my whole approach might not work for a non-US census. I use the lowest census jurisdiction as the Master Source. Here is how I handle a census page which covers multiple individuals - the family (actual example): The EVENT is CENSUS (family) - for an individual and spouse. MASTER SOURCE entry Media - BLANK (I just don't use it) Author (not printed) - BLANK Title (printed) - 1870 U.S. Federal Census (Population Schedule), ILLINOIS, ADAMS, LIBERTY Publisher / date (printed) - National Archives Microfilm Publication (Yes, I know HeritageQuest is the publisher but I imply that in the Repository and, ultimately the CITATION Page/Reel data) Abbreviation (not printed) - 1870 U.S. Census ILLINOIS, ADAMS, LIBERTY Repository - HeritageQuest (other relevant info added to subsequent page data for the Repository) Actual text (not printed) - BLANK Comments (not printed) - BLANK (Acutally I frequently use box to record what info and format goes into the other boxes) CITATION entry Actual text for this citation (printed) - LINDEN, WILLIAM - Age: 52, Male, Race: WHITE, Born: NC, farmer Comments (not printed) - as appropriate to the page, not the individual, rarely used. Page/reel (printed) - HeritageQuest M593-186 Page 237B Quality of data - BLANK (simply haven't been using) The citation on reports will look as: [3] 1870 U.S. Federal Census (Population Schedule), ILLINOIS, ADAMS, LIBERTY (National Archives Microfilm Publication), HeritageQuest M593-186 Page 237B. Notes on the above: I started using HeritageQuest years ago so the Master Source and Citation data are geared to that source, thus, the location description and page (237B) will be different for any other source you might use for census data - just as with the data given by FamilySearch as their citation data. Even if I have to use FamilySearch to find or interpret HQ pages I default back to listing HQ as the source, in general. Just because. The 1940 census has caused me to add another Excel page (see below) for the Family Search census pages. When downloading the HQ census page you are presented with identifying data, in this case: LINDEN, WILLIAM (1870 U.S. Census) ILLINOIS , ADAMS, LIBERTY Age: 52, Male, Race: WHITE, Born: NC Series: M593 Roll: 186 Page: 237 I copy and paste this into Excel and generate the MASTER SOURCE Title, Publisher and Abbreviation and the CITATION Actual text and Page/Reel - all of which gets copied and pasted into the BK template. Note that in CITATION Page/Reel the page number gets an A or B or... attached to it based on the page you are viewing - this I have to note and add to the Excel form when generating. Also, there are addition data, in this case the occupation of "farmer" (see CITATION entry, above) which I find on the census page and add to the CITATION Actual text after pasting from Excel - I also add [shorthanded] a bit) married, years married, number of children, widowed, immigrated year, birthplace of father/mother if these data are on the census page and add the EVENTS as appropriate using that entry in the CITATION Actual text. Note that the individual's name is actually: William Riley Lierle. The name on the census data is likely transcribed incorrectly. The page is almost illegible. I likely had to search for this census data. And sometimes I use FamilySearch (or other) to do this. The benefit in doing so, if I get a match, is that I get their "opinion" of the "head of household name" spelling if I can't read the HQ data as well as names of household members along with other data. But since the source is HeritageQuest I use the spelling as used in the HQ records. Note also that in the case of this family, family members ended up spelling the surname differently. So, even if the name found on the HeritageQuest census page is spelled correctly it might not be the "family" name that I want to use in the BK FIND [F3] routine. So for this case, i.e., had the individual been using the spelling Lirely, I would use that name for the BK Name field but will put but "Lierle" in the NAME/SORT NAME tab on the edit screen. This becomes the MASTER SOURCE for the census source for that household. I then use the CITATION Actual text data (copy and paste) for other events. In this case I have estimated BORN DATE and LOCATION(abt 1818, North Carolina) and OCCUPAION (Farmer). For the other household members listed on the census page, I create a CENSUS (Individual) entry for the year and the Location/Description reading, in this example, "William Linden household" (note I keep the HQ census spelling). For the spouse, there is already an entry because I used the event CENSUS (family). For others I add the event CENSUS with the source simply added - no CITATION Actual text. Then for those individaul's EVENTS, I add, as appropriate, and manually enter available data under the event - making one CITATION Actual text entry with all available data (including the census firstname and middlename) and pasting that into the appropriate events. For instance, his daughter will have the data "Ann E, age 26, IL" in the BORN event with date being "abt 1844" and place being "North Carolina". Once that census page MASTER SOURCE is created and if there are other families on that page then that page is available to use as the MASTER SOURCE - you just select it out of the source list. ____ I do use Find A Grave. For this the MASTER SOURCE is simply Find A Grave with the name and memorial number used to differentiate: Media - BLANK Author (not printed) - BLANK Title (printed) - Find A Grave Memorials Publisher/date (printed) - http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi Abbreviation (not printed) - Find A Grave Online Repository - Find A Grave Online CITATION entry Actual text for this citation (not printed) - all data on memorial copied and pasted for the burial record. (Birth and death data only for those EVENTS. Comments for this citation (not printed) - info as appropriate to explain discrepancies and whatnot. Page/reel (printed) - William Riley Lierle, Memorial# 50676673, [18 Jul 2012], the [18 Jul 2012] being date last accessed Quality of data - BLANK (simply haven't been using) There is a biography section on the memorial page which sometimes contains additional data - an obit for instance. This MASTER SOURCE is used for that info as appropriate. The obit might say the spouse died 4 years prior - so I have an estimated death date for the spouse. Or, survivors and their place of residence on the death date. Or deaths preceding which gives me "DIED bef dd-mmm-yyyy". Or whatever. I simply go to (or make) a BK entry for that individual using the Find A Grave master source AND "CITATION Page/reel" as the source for the entry. ____ For emails, I make each email the MASTER SOURCE the singular email with the text of the email entered in the MASTER SOURCE - Actual text box. Other MASTER SOURCE boxes are: AUTHOR (printed) is the sender. TITLE (printed) is the email title (usually though I will change it to reflect the actual purpose of the email as required. PUBLISHER (printed) is "Email to David Y Bartelt, dd-mmm-yyy". COMMENTS (not printed) is as appropriate. For the CITATION data: Actual text (not printed) contains info relevant to the individual. Comments (not printed) is as appropriate. PAGE/Reel is generally blank and not printed - I used to put the name of the person (and then print it) to which the info refers but it is kind of redundant since this is on that persons page anyway. ____ Message board posts are basically handled the same way an email is - the post, not the thread, is the MASTER SOURCE. ____ Using individual census pages, emails, message board posts, etc. will result in a long MASTER SOURCE listing but BK handles it well. The key is to be consistent in the abbreviations used because that determines how they are presented to you in BK. Hope this addresses the question and helps. I did proof this but I am short on time right now so if something looks goofy just comment on it. David Bartelt ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bibby" <johnbibbyjohnbibby@gmail.com> To: <BK@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 2:21 AM Subject: [BK] Shared events > What is the best way of dealing with shared events e.g. census is a good > example, but I also have some legal documents that tie together 10 people > from an extended family. > > Thanks for any suggestions > JOHN BIBBY > Remember - Use the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/search > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 09:11:14 -0500, "David Bartelt" <dybartelt@comcast.net> wrote: >John Bibby > >I might not be interpreting your question correctly since you have been on the board for quite awhile - but here is my answer to the critical question of how to handle sources which cover multiple individuals for what it is worth. > >The essence of the whole thing is what is choosen as the Master Source. This because way down the line it can difficult to change horses in mid stream. > >____ >Take, for instance, census data - I am in the US and don't have any experience with non-US census info so my whole approach might not work for a non-US census. I use the lowest census jurisdiction as the Master Source. > >Here is how I handle a census page which covers multiple individuals - the family (actual example): >The EVENT is CENSUS (family) - for an individual and spouse. > >MASTER SOURCE entry >Media - BLANK (I just don't use it) >Author (not printed) - BLANK >Title (printed) - 1870 U.S. Federal Census (Population Schedule), ILLINOIS, ADAMS, LIBERTY >Publisher / date (printed) - National Archives Microfilm Publication (Yes, I know HeritageQuest is the publisher but I imply that in the Repository and, ultimately the CITATION Page/Reel data) >Abbreviation (not printed) - 1870 U.S. Census ILLINOIS, ADAMS, LIBERTY >Repository - HeritageQuest (other relevant info added to subsequent page data for the Repository) >Actual text (not printed) - BLANK >Comments (not printed) - BLANK (Acutally I frequently use box to record what info and format goes into the other boxes) > >CITATION entry >Actual text for this citation (printed) - LINDEN, WILLIAM - Age: 52, Male, Race: WHITE, Born: NC, farmer >Comments (not printed) - as appropriate to the page, not the individual, rarely used. >Page/reel (printed) - HeritageQuest M593-186 Page 237B >Quality of data - BLANK (simply haven't been using) > >The citation on reports will look as: >[3] 1870 U.S. Federal Census (Population Schedule), ILLINOIS, ADAMS, LIBERTY (National Archives Microfilm Publication), HeritageQuest M593-186 Page 237B. > > >Notes on the above: >I started using HeritageQuest years ago so the Master Source and Citation data are geared to that source, thus, the location description and page (237B) will be different for any other source you might use for census data - just as with the data given by FamilySearch as their citation data. Even if I have to use FamilySearch to find or interpret HQ pages I default back to listing HQ as the source, in general. Just because. The 1940 census has caused me to add another Excel page (see below) for the Family Search census pages. > >When downloading the HQ census page you are presented with identifying data, in this case: >LINDEN, WILLIAM (1870 U.S. Census) >ILLINOIS , ADAMS, LIBERTY >Age: 52, Male, Race: WHITE, Born: NC >Series: M593 Roll: 186 Page: 237 >I copy and paste this into Excel and generate the MASTER SOURCE Title, Publisher and Abbreviation and the CITATION Actual text and Page/Reel - all of which gets copied and pasted into the BK template. Note that in CITATION Page/Reel the page number gets an A or B or... attached to it based on the page you are viewing - this I have to note and add to the Excel form when generating. Also, there are addition data, in this case the occupation of "farmer" (see CITATION entry, above) which I find on the census page and add to the CITATION Actual text after pasting from Excel - I also add [shorthanded] a bit) married, years married, number of children, widowed, immigrated year, birthplace of father/mother if these data are on the census page and add the EVENTS as appropriate using that entry in the CITATION Actual text. > >Note that the individual's name is actually: William Riley Lierle. >The name on the census data is likely transcribed incorrectly. The page is almost illegible. I likely had to search for this census data. And sometimes I use FamilySearch (or other) to do this. The benefit in doing so, if I get a match, is that I get their "opinion" of the "head of household name" spelling if I can't read the HQ data as well as names of household members along with other data. But since the source is HeritageQuest I use the spelling as used in the HQ records. > >Note also that in the case of this family, family members ended up spelling the surname differently. So, even if the name found on the HeritageQuest census page is spelled correctly it might not be the "family" name that I want to use in the BK FIND [F3] routine. So for this case, i.e., had the individual been using the spelling Lirely, I would use that name for the BK Name field but will put but "Lierle" in the NAME/SORT NAME tab on the edit screen. > >This becomes the MASTER SOURCE for the census source for that household. > >I then use the CITATION Actual text data (copy and paste) for other events. In this case I have estimated BORN DATE and LOCATION(abt 1818, North Carolina) and OCCUPAION (Farmer). > >For the other household members listed on the census page, I create a CENSUS (Individual) entry for the year and the Location/Description reading, in this example, "William Linden household" (note I keep the HQ census spelling). For the spouse, there is already an entry because I used the event CENSUS (family). For others I add the event CENSUS with the source simply added - no CITATION Actual text. Then for those individaul's EVENTS, I add, as appropriate, and manually enter available data under the event - making one CITATION Actual text entry with all available data (including the census firstname and middlename) and pasting that into the appropriate events. For instance, his daughter will have the data "Ann E, age 26, IL" in the BORN event with date being "abt 1844" and place being "North Carolina". > >Once that census page MASTER SOURCE is created and if there are other families on that page then that page is available to use as the MASTER SOURCE - you just select it out of the source list. >____ >I do use Find A Grave. For this the MASTER SOURCE is simply Find A Grave with the name and memorial number used to differentiate: >Media - BLANK >Author (not printed) - BLANK >Title (printed) - Find A Grave Memorials > Publisher/date (printed) - http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi >Abbreviation (not printed) - Find A Grave Online >Repository - Find A Grave Online > >CITATION entry >Actual text for this citation (not printed) - all data on memorial copied and pasted for the burial record. (Birth and death data only for those EVENTS. >Comments for this citation (not printed) - info as appropriate to explain discrepancies and whatnot. >Page/reel (printed) - William Riley Lierle, Memorial# 50676673, [18 Jul 2012], the [18 Jul 2012] being date last accessed >Quality of data - BLANK (simply haven't been using) > >There is a biography section on the memorial page which sometimes contains additional data - an obit for instance. This MASTER SOURCE is used for that info as appropriate. The obit might say the spouse died 4 years prior - so I have an estimated death date for the spouse. Or, survivors and their place of residence on the death date. Or deaths preceding which gives me "DIED bef dd-mmm-yyyy". Or whatever. I simply go to (or make) a BK entry for that individual using the Find A Grave master source AND "CITATION Page/reel" as the source for the entry. >____ >For emails, I make each email the MASTER SOURCE the singular email with the text of the email entered in the MASTER SOURCE - Actual text box. Other MASTER SOURCE boxes are: AUTHOR (printed) is the sender. TITLE (printed) is the email title (usually though I will change it to reflect the actual purpose of the email as required. PUBLISHER (printed) is "Email to David Y Bartelt, dd-mmm-yyy". COMMENTS (not printed) is as appropriate. For the CITATION data: Actual text (not printed) contains info relevant to the individual. Comments (not printed) is as appropriate. PAGE/Reel is generally blank and not printed - I used to put the name of the person (and then print it) to which the info refers but it is kind of redundant since this is on that persons page anyway. >____ >Message board posts are basically handled the same way an email is - the post, not the thread, is the MASTER SOURCE. >____ > >Using individual census pages, emails, message board posts, etc. will result in a long MASTER SOURCE listing but BK handles it well. The key is to be consistent in the abbreviations used because that determines how they are presented to you in BK. > >Hope this addresses the question and helps. I did proof this but I am short on time right now so if something looks goofy just comment on it. > >David Bartelt We use the upper part for the master source and the lower part for detail connected to part of the Mster source e.g. evemnts for a sertain person and evnt,m refering to the master source. Here it sems to me that there are a mix. :) But I may be wrong as I are not familar with all sources in US -- Otto Jørgensen http://www.bkwin.info/ All email is checked by NORTON