Hi, Any experience out there with Android GEDCOM viewers or genealogy apps? TIA Gert

Gert Using two 1) FamilyGTG 2) Rootsmagic They are not BK, but are good for looking up births & deaths I only use the viewing capability. Jim -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gert Blij via Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 9:44 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [BK] Android GEDCOM viewer Hi, Any experience out there with Android GEDCOM viewers or genealogy apps? TIA Gert Remember - Use the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/search ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

JP Excel is easier to sort One of the things I produced was a list in date order of everybody I didn't have an obit for So when I was looking for a person's obit I might find others on the same roll of microfiche Yes I do sums Over the years I have developed several macros to make the job easier Also developed macros for Word to format & produce index of the register report Whole point it's a lot easier carrying a flash drive to the library than my books Jim Sent from my iPad > On Mar 31, 2015, at 6:57 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) via <[email protected]> wrote: > > In message <[email protected]>, Jim Dell via > <[email protected]> writes: >> Jim >> Well my book would be over a 1,000 pages long. >> What I do is create a custom report, normally an Excel spreadsheet, > {} > Going off at a tangent here: do you do sums on your data? If not you > probably [email protected] need a spreadsheet. If you just want a grid then [email protected] > tables are much more versatile than Excel. > -- > J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf > > Another lively meeting of thr 1922 Committee - the secret gathering of BBC > presenters that gets its name from the fact that no one is sober after > twenty-past seven. - Eddie Mair, RT 16-22 April 2011 > Remember - Use the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/search > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In message <[email protected]>, Jim Dell via <[email protected]> writes: >Jim >Well my book would be over a 1,000 pages long. >What I do is create a custom report, normally an Excel spreadsheet, {} Going off at a tangent here: do you do sums on your data? If not you probably [email protected] need a spreadsheet. If you just want a grid then [email protected] tables are much more versatile than Excel. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf Another lively meeting of thr 1922 Committee - the secret gathering of BBC presenters that gets its name from the fact that no one is sober after twenty-past seven. - Eddie Mair, RT 16-22 April 2011

To Jim Mayor If I understand correctly, you want all of your ancestors, from the furthest back up to the current. So a list of all of your Jones ancestors, then all of your Mayor ancestors, then all of your Smith ancestors, and so on alphabetically. Perhaps you can email me a sample of your report and I will see if I am able to do something like that. John Steed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Mayor via" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 9:36 AM Subject: [BK] Ancestor descendant list > In the past I have created a loose-leaf, genealogy book to take with me > when I do research. This book is a list of all of my ancestors grouped > alphabetically by surname in descendant order. In the past I have used the > custom ahnentafel list, including just the basic b, d, m data and then > reversed the list. I have used this format for many years, but it is so > tedious to revise each time I have additions or changes if there are many > generations of a surname. > > Would anyone else find my format useful? Does anyone else wish that custom > formatting for ancestors in descendant order was available? > > John: If you didn’t have such a wonderful and useful program none of us > out > here would expect or wish for anything better. Thank you. > > Jim Mayor > South Albany, VT > Remember - Use the Archives at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/search > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message

Jim Well my book would be over a 1,000 pages long. What I do is create a custom report, normally an Excel spreadsheet, that contains the people that I am likely to find at that location. I also carry by Laptop which has a copy of my BK database. My cellphone has two gedcom based apps that contain my data. Both the laptop & cell phone are easier to carry than a 1,000 page book or binder. Jim -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jim Mayor via Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 9:36 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [BK] Ancestor descendant list In the past I have created a loose-leaf, genealogy book to take with me when I do research. This book is a list of all of my ancestors grouped alphabetically by surname in descendant order. In the past I have used the custom ahnentafel list, including just the basic b, d, m data and then reversed the list. I have used this format for many years, but it is so tedious to revise each time I have additions or changes if there are many generations of a surname. Would anyone else find my format useful? Does anyone else wish that custom formatting for ancestors in descendant order was available? John: If you didn’t have such a wonderful and useful program none of us out here would expect or wish for anything better. Thank you. Jim Mayor South Albany, VT Remember - Use the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/search ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In the past I have created a loose-leaf, genealogy book to take with me when I do research. This book is a list of all of my ancestors grouped alphabetically by surname in descendant order. In the past I have used the custom ahnentafel list, including just the basic b, d, m data and then reversed the list. I have used this format for many years, but it is so tedious to revise each time I have additions or changes if there are many generations of a surname. Would anyone else find my format useful? Does anyone else wish that custom formatting for ancestors in descendant order was available? John: If you didn’t have such a wonderful and useful program none of us out here would expect or wish for anything better. Thank you. Jim Mayor South Albany, VT

Thanks John and Jim. The computer used is a PC, not a laptop. But the problem seems to be resolved: he had forgotten to use BK as administrator. Thanks again all. Gilles Le 2015-03-29 19:09, Jim Dell a ecrit : Gilles I am using Windows 8.1 on a Dell laptop and when it goes to sleep the power light blinks and you have to push the power button and it comes right where it left off Jim

Gilles I am using Windows 8.1 on a Dell laptop and when it goes to sleep the power light blinks and you have to push the power button and it comes right where it left off Jim -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gilles Paquette via Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2015 12:12 PM To: BK - RootsWeb Subject: [BK] BK7 and Win8.1 Hi, A friend has a problem with a new setup. He can't "wake up" his PC after it goes to "sleep" after 20 minutes or so (default config). He has to reboot the computer. Everything came back to normal after he uninstalled BK7. Is there a way to allow BK7 not to interfere with the "wake up" process of Win8.1? He initially installed BK7 with a 1600 x 900 resolution (if this might help). Thanks. Gilles Paquette Remember - Use the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/search ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

To Gilles Paquette I am not aware of anyone else having that problem. Does he have BK running when the system sleeps? He can contact the computer company to see what they can tell him how to wake it up. BK 7 is not doing anything unusual. Or he can set the computer to NOT go to sleep, but just have the monitor/screen go off. John Steed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gilles Paquette via" <[email protected]> To: "BK - RootsWeb" <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2015 12:11 PM Subject: [BK] BK7 and Win8.1 > > Hi, > A friend has a problem with a new setup. He can't "wake up" his PC > after it > goes to "sleep" after 20 minutes or so (default config). He has to > reboot > the computer. > Everything came back to normal after he uninstalled BK7. > Is there a way to allow BK7 not to interfere with the "wake up" process > of > Win8.1? > He initially installed BK7 with a 1600 x 900 resolution (if this might > help). > Thanks. > Gilles Paquette > Remember - Use the Archives at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/search > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message >

Hi, A friend has a problem with a new setup. He can't "wake up" his PC after it goes to "sleep" after 20 minutes or so (default config). He has to reboot the computer. Everything came back to normal after he uninstalled BK7. Is there a way to allow BK7 not to interfere with the "wake up" process of Win8.1? He initially installed BK7 with a 1600 x 900 resolution (if this might help). Thanks. Gilles Paquette

On Sat, 28 Mar 2015 18:48:12 +0100, Herma Gumpert via <[email protected]> wrote: >Hello All > >I cleaned my data and now have a lot of unused BK numbers. >When I write HTML >Group Sheets for a range of numbers (= my total >database) I get in the index many empty Group Sheets named "Reuse". How >can I avoid that? First of be sure that none of these persons are linked and have no data. Then may be John find ann option to omitt unused / empty BK_number -- Otto Jørgensen http://home.online.no/~otjoerge/ All email is checked by NIS2014

Hello All I cleaned my data and now have a lot of unused BK numbers. When I write HTML Group Sheets for a range of numbers (= my total database) I get in the index many empty Group Sheets named "Reuse". How can I avoid that? Thank you for your help Herma Gumpert --- Dit e-mailbericht is gecontroleerd op virussen met Avast antivirussoftware. http://www.avast.com

To Herma Gumpert I will fix that problem. John Steed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Herma Gumpert via" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2015 1:48 PM Subject: [BK] "reuse" > Hello All > > I cleaned my data and now have a lot of unused BK numbers. When I write > HTML > Group Sheets for a range of numbers (= my total database) I get in the > index > many empty Group Sheets named "Reuse". How can I avoid that? > > Thank you for your help > > Herma Gumpert > > > > --- > Dit e-mailbericht is gecontroleerd op virussen met Avast > antivirussoftware. > http://www.avast.com > Remember - Use the Archives at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/search > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message >

Dear Max van Dam, my remarks were not directed to you, but to all. I just took your mail because of the good descriptions of the 3 abbreviations for the DATE approximations and added the remaining syntax for DATE approximations because some of the replies included informations which are not in conformance to GEDCOM. Even those users staying just with BK should use the GEDCOM syntax for the DATE approximations. best regards Diedrich (Hesmer) Am 27.03.15 um 11:19 schrieb Max van Dam: > Dear Diedrich Hesmer, > > I do not understand your remarks. I have only reacted how I use BEF, AFT and > ABT. I do not use other abbreviations. > > In my website BEF, AFT and ABT comes these abbreviations correctly over in > the other languages too. See for example Raphael Salomon Hofsteede. So my > gedcom gives what I wish in this case. I have no experiences with other > programs than BK and HUMO-gen. > > With my best regards, > > Max van Dam > Rechovoth > Israel > > http://www.maxvandam.info/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Diedrich Hesmer via > Sent: 27 March 2015 13:01 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [BK] DATE and GEDCOM - was [How do you (discussion, not > enquiry) express dates with the BEF(ore) tag?] > > Dear all, > > let me take the note from Max van Dam and the GEDCOM question someone noted. > In addition to the 3 described abbreviations GEDCOM allows: > 2 DATE FROM Date > 2 DATE TO Date > 2 DATE FROM Date1 TO Date2 > 2 DATE BET Date1 AND Date2 > 2 DATE CAL Date > 2 DATE EST Date > > and DATE may be: > YYYY for the year > MMM YYYY for month (3 letters) and year > DD MMM YYYY for day month year > > This is for the ged-file, not necessarily for the BK input. BK may convert > some input strings to correct GEDCOM syntax during GEDCOM export. > CA, CIR, BET 1820-1825 or others are not allowed in ged-files and may be > lost during transfer to another PC with a different genealogy program. > Only in case the importing program has sufficient features build in, the > dates will be taken correctly. > > best regards > Diedrich (Hesmer) > http://ofb.hesmer.name/gedcom

Great topic John. But first, Roy, what is the "Note square"? [Do you mean this?] If so, do these have special signification? And where do you put it, in a note or in the Date column? I use bef, abt or aft quite a lot, for the reasons raised, because you know one event but can't find the other. But I have always put just the year, as in bef 1855. Now you have got me wondering if I should be more precise, as in aft ddmmyyyy (in the non-American fashion). Which are the prefixes recognised by Gedcom? And does BK follow suit? And do they need to be in CAPS? I seem to reflect the implicit imprecision by putting them in lower case, as above. By the same token, when entering a wife, my practice is to enter her by her family/maiden name, the name she was born with, in CAPS, but if I don't know that name I enter her with her married/husband's name in Lower Case, again to imply that it is not quite the full information. I am at present dealing with a case in point where I can't find this woman's birth/baptism but there are 5 different other sources: shipping, daughter's birth, husband's death, remarriage and death. From ages given in these, she was born anytime from 1835 to 1842. I reckon the first three are the most reliable because she was the informant but even these vary a lot. Do I average them or put bef or aft? There is no right answer, I think. Bill -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Roy Marriott via Sent: Friday, 27 March 2015 12:27 PM To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [BK] How do you (discussion, not enquiry) express dates with the BEF(ore) tag? When using "CIR," "BEF," "AFT" I try to be as precise as the information in my source(s), which is what I think you are saying in your comment. Sometimes I can deduce something from a combination of sources, though I can't think of an example right now, and try to document my reasoning. Unfortunately, I may not have always been as careful. I understand and share your concern that there can be a potential for the reader to infer a false accuracy with such precise dates. In some cases the source information can help explain how the specificity of the date came about. For example the obituary of person "A" can provide an "AFT" date for the death of person "B" who survived person "A", but there is no way from that source to determine by how _much_ after. It could be a day after (hence the reason to include the known precision), or it could be several years after. I try not to make assumptions, even though I'm sure that I have done so in the past. Do you (or do other BKers) use the "Note square" to identify limitations, qualifying information, or reasoning to support the "BEF"? Roy Marriott On 3/26/2015 7:47 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) via wrote: > There are times when I know something happened before a date: I > sometimes wonder how precise I should be with the date. For example, > say someone is known, on a specific date, to be a widow(er): > obviously, the DOD of the spouse is BEF(ore) that date. But do I say BEF ddmmyyyy? > That's strictly _correct_, and on the whole is what I do, but some > people seeing it might think it means they died quite close to it. > > I was just wondering how others express the date when they use BEEF. > > (Side idle thought: when the husband dies first, the wife is widowed, > becoming a widow. When the wife dies first, the husband becomes a > widower - so is he widowed, or widowered?) Remember - Use the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/search ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Diedrich Hesmer, I do not understand your remarks. I have only reacted how I use BEF, AFT and ABT. I do not use other abbreviations. In my website BEF, AFT and ABT comes these abbreviations correctly over in the other languages too. See for example Raphael Salomon Hofsteede. So my gedcom gives what I wish in this case. I have no experiences with other programs than BK and HUMO-gen. With my best regards, Max van Dam Rechovoth Israel http://www.maxvandam.info/ -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Diedrich Hesmer via Sent: 27 March 2015 13:01 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BK] DATE and GEDCOM - was [How do you (discussion, not enquiry) express dates with the BEF(ore) tag?] Dear all, let me take the note from Max van Dam and the GEDCOM question someone noted. In addition to the 3 described abbreviations GEDCOM allows: 2 DATE FROM Date 2 DATE TO Date 2 DATE FROM Date1 TO Date2 2 DATE BET Date1 AND Date2 2 DATE CAL Date 2 DATE EST Date and DATE may be: YYYY for the year MMM YYYY for month (3 letters) and year DD MMM YYYY for day month year This is for the ged-file, not necessarily for the BK input. BK may convert some input strings to correct GEDCOM syntax during GEDCOM export. CA, CIR, BET 1820-1825 or others are not allowed in ged-files and may be lost during transfer to another PC with a different genealogy program. Only in case the importing program has sufficient features build in, the dates will be taken correctly. best regards Diedrich (Hesmer) http://ofb.hesmer.name/gedcom Am 27.03.15 um 10:03 schrieb Max van Dam via: > Dear John Gilliver, > > I have a standard approach for using ABT, BEF, AFT. > > BEF > > I use BEF very often when I know the parents from somebody without any > dates for this person. > If somebody married in 1840 and the person is 20 years old at the > marriage date, than I mention that the parents are born BEF 1800 to > have any idea in my database. > > AFT > > I use AFT mostly if I do not know the date of death. In the case > before marriage 1840, if a parent is present to a marriage of one of > their children than I mention died AFT. 1840 if known that one of the > parents died before 1840 than I mention died BEF 1840. > > ABT > > I know sometimes the exact marriage date and the ages of groom and > bride. In that case I use ABT. > In my case of marriage 1840, if the groom is 22 and the bride 20 than > I use born ABT 1818 and born ABT 1820. > > In the cases of ABT it is closer to the exact date than at BEF and AFT. > > > Met vriendelijke groet, > > Max van Dam > Rechovoth > Israel > > http://www.maxvandam.info/ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of J. P. Gilliver (John) via > Sent: 27 March 2015 01:47 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [BK] How do you (discussion, not enquiry) express dates with > the > BEF(ore) tag? > > There are times when I know something happened before a date: I > sometimes wonder how precise I should be with the date. For example, > say someone is known, on a specific date, to be a widow(er): > obviously, the DOD of the spouse is BEF(ore) that date. But do I say BEF ddmmyyyy? > That's strictly _correct_, and on the whole is what I do, but some > people seeing it might think it means they died quite close to it. > > I was just wondering how others express the date when they use BEEF. > > (Side idle thought: when the husband dies first, the wife is widowed, > becoming a widow. When the wife dies first, the husband becomes a > widower - so is he widowed, or widowered?) > -- > J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 > MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf > > "If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law." > - Winston Churchill. > Remember - Use the Archives at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/search > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > Remember - Use the Archives at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/search > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > Remember - Use the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/search ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear John Gilliver, I have a standard approach for using ABT, BEF, AFT. BEF I use BEF very often when I know the parents from somebody without any dates for this person. If somebody married in 1840 and the person is 20 years old at the marriage date, than I mention that the parents are born BEF 1800 to have any idea in my database. AFT I use AFT mostly if I do not know the date of death. In the case before marriage 1840, if a parent is present to a marriage of one of their children than I mention died AFT. 1840 if known that one of the parents died before 1840 than I mention died BEF 1840. ABT I know sometimes the exact marriage date and the ages of groom and bride. In that case I use ABT. In my case of marriage 1840, if the groom is 22 and the bride 20 than I use born ABT 1818 and born ABT 1820. In the cases of ABT it is closer to the exact date than at BEF and AFT. Met vriendelijke groet, Max van Dam Rechovoth Israel http://www.maxvandam.info/ -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of J. P. Gilliver (John) via Sent: 27 March 2015 01:47 To: [email protected] Subject: [BK] How do you (discussion, not enquiry) express dates with the BEF(ore) tag? There are times when I know something happened before a date: I sometimes wonder how precise I should be with the date. For example, say someone is known, on a specific date, to be a widow(er): obviously, the DOD of the spouse is BEF(ore) that date. But do I say BEF ddmmyyyy? That's strictly _correct_, and on the whole is what I do, but some people seeing it might think it means they died quite close to it. I was just wondering how others express the date when they use BEEF. (Side idle thought: when the husband dies first, the wife is widowed, becoming a widow. When the wife dies first, the husband becomes a widower - so is he widowed, or widowered?) -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf "If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law." - Winston Churchill. Remember - Use the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/search ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear all, let me take the note from Max van Dam and the GEDCOM question someone noted. In addition to the 3 described abbreviations GEDCOM allows: 2 DATE FROM Date 2 DATE TO Date 2 DATE FROM Date1 TO Date2 2 DATE BET Date1 AND Date2 2 DATE CAL Date 2 DATE EST Date and DATE may be: YYYY for the year MMM YYYY for month (3 letters) and year DD MMM YYYY for day month year This is for the ged-file, not necessarily for the BK input. BK may convert some input strings to correct GEDCOM syntax during GEDCOM export. CA, CIR, BET 1820-1825 or others are not allowed in ged-files and may be lost during transfer to another PC with a different genealogy program. Only in case the importing program has sufficient features build in, the dates will be taken correctly. best regards Diedrich (Hesmer) http://ofb.hesmer.name/gedcom Am 27.03.15 um 10:03 schrieb Max van Dam via: > Dear John Gilliver, > > I have a standard approach for using ABT, BEF, AFT. > > BEF > > I use BEF very often when I know the parents from somebody without any dates > for this person. > If somebody married in 1840 and the person is 20 years old at the marriage > date, than I mention that the parents are born BEF 1800 to have any idea in > my database. > > AFT > > I use AFT mostly if I do not know the date of death. In the case before > marriage 1840, if a parent is present to a marriage of one of their > children than I mention died AFT. 1840 if known that one of the parents > died before 1840 than I mention died BEF 1840. > > ABT > > I know sometimes the exact marriage date and the ages of groom and bride. In > that case I use ABT. > In my case of marriage 1840, if the groom is 22 and the bride 20 than I use > born ABT 1818 and born ABT 1820. > > In the cases of ABT it is closer to the exact date than at BEF and AFT. > > > Met vriendelijke groet, > > Max van Dam > Rechovoth > Israel > > http://www.maxvandam.info/ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > J. P. Gilliver (John) via > Sent: 27 March 2015 01:47 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [BK] How do you (discussion, not enquiry) express dates with the > BEF(ore) tag? > > There are times when I know something happened before a date: I sometimes > wonder how precise I should be with the date. For example, say someone is > known, on a specific date, to be a widow(er): obviously, the DOD of the > spouse is BEF(ore) that date. But do I say BEF ddmmyyyy? > That's strictly _correct_, and on the whole is what I do, but some people > seeing it might think it means they died quite close to it. > > I was just wondering how others express the date when they use BEEF. > > (Side idle thought: when the husband dies first, the wife is widowed, > becoming a widow. When the wife dies first, the husband becomes a widower - > so is he widowed, or widowered?) > -- > J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf > > "If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law." > - Winston Churchill. > Remember - Use the Archives at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/search > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > > > Remember - Use the Archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/search > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

As this IS a discussion, will approach it as such. ABT is preferred over CIR by some programs. When I do conversions of my GEDCOM files, some programs are confused by CIR (just to note the situation). The preciseness of the KNOWN data is how it should USUALLY be approached. However, even USING the most precise data known, is no guarantee. It DOES, however, facilitate a better chance of accuracy as additional data is found or provided. An example would be, using BEF and AFT. If one uses the precise date of 15-Jan-1975 as the AFT date for a spouse of someone who died on that date, DOES it preclude that person dying on any date prior to 16-Jan-1975? If so, on VERY rare occasions, it might keep one from accepting that the other spouse died on the SAME date. I had this happen, and the person I was discussing it with insisted that the 2nd spouse's date was confused with the first spouse's date (a more common reasoning and occurrence). However, in this case, they had both died in a house fire. Only the husband's name was mentioned in the ORIGINAL article about the fire. The follow-up included his wife's name, which, eventually, cleared up the date confusion for both of us. THOSE cases are much rarer, though, and having that SPECIFIC date, in the end, helped to confirm the actual facts. So, when using BEF/AFT I try to be as specific as I can. When using ABT (and, to be clear, I use Bef. Aft. and Abt. in my database), I use a year if, for instance, including aged based on census records. Or, if I know the birth order and the two children before and after are, say, 4 years apart, I'd put the year 2 years after the earlier born child as an "Abt." for the individual in question. I add more information to Abt. in cases such as burials and deaths. If I know a death date of 10-Apr-1900, I would put an Abt. date of Abt. Apr-1900. In some cases, when it's in the warmer months, especially, I might even leave out the Abt. and only put Apr-1900. This rarely proves "risky". However, if a burial date is known, I will always put Abt. for the death date. I found myself doing this early on in my research, after realizing that burial dates don't ALWAYS reflect the first burial (a move to a different cemetery, for instance). Also, in northern climates, if individuals pass in the colder months, their burial date may be at the first thaw, since the ground is too frozen for burial (this is far less likely in more recent years, but was not all that uncommon a century ago). My greatest fear of using "Abt." though, comes with births vs. baptisms. In such cases, I almost always use just the year, if only one is known. If I have information on all the siblings, I might adjust the date to be more specific based on the average age at baptism, as well as the birth order and how narrow a field might be in order. There is always the "Between" function, and I DO occasionally use that. However, I've not made it a habit, as it maybe should be in specific cases. Well, that's my two (or four) cents on the subject. :-) Jared > > When using "CIR," "BEF," "AFT" I try to be as precise as the information > in my source(s), which is what I think you are saying in your comment. > Sometimes I can deduce something from a combination of sources, though I > can't think of an example right now, and try to document my reasoning. > Unfortunately, I may not have always been as careful. > > I understand and share your concern that there can be a potential for > the reader to infer a false accuracy with such precise dates. In some > cases the source information can help explain how the specificity of the > date came about. For example the obituary of person "A" can provide an > "AFT" date for the death of person "B" who survived person "A", but > there is no way from that source to determine by how _much_ after. It > could be a day after (hence the reason to include the known precision), > or it could be several years after. I try not to make assumptions, even > though I'm sure that I have done so in the past. > > Do you (or do other BKers) use the "Note square" to identify > limitations, qualifying information, or reasoning to support the "BEF"? > > Roy Marriott > > > On 3/26/2015 7:47 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) via wrote: >> There are times when I know something happened before a date: I >> sometimes wonder how precise I should be with the date. For example, say >> someone is known, on a specific date, to be a widow(er): obviously, the >> DOD of the spouse is BEF(ore) that date. But do I say BEF ddmmyyyy? >> That's strictly _correct_, and on the whole is what I do, but some >> people seeing it might think it means they died quite close to it. >> >> I was just wondering how others express the date when they use BEEF. >> >> (Side idle thought: when the husband dies first, the wife is widowed, >> becoming a widow. When the wife dies first, the husband becomes a >> widower - so is he widowed, or widowered?) > > Remember - Use the Archives at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/search > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------ Jared "Jed" Handspicker Usque Saeculis Vigilem