It's hot, unusually in July, people may be on hols, too busy to post... Dinna fret;-) Ruth in Brum. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Waring" <fred.waring@verizon.net> To: <BIRKENHEAD-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 6:34 PM Subject: [BKHD-Wirral] no messages > I am not receiving any messages from the birkenhead message board. I am receiving them from Cheshire and Ayrshire. Please advise > Fred Waring

Last message sent 12th July 2006. The plain truth I think is, that a lot of us are just not getting anywhere. I, for one, don't have high expectations. Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Waring" <fred.waring@verizon.net> >I am not receiving any messages from the birkenhead message board. I am receiving them from Cheshire and Ayrshire. Please advise > Fred Waring

im not getting any either, alice

I am not receiving any messages from the birkenhead message board. I am receiving them from Cheshire and Ayrshire. Please advise Fred Waring

I am still trying to track any descendants of my paternal grandmother, Mary Strang Ritchie. She was born 1 Feb 1873 at Toxteth Park, and married John Henderson Pollok Strang at St Paul's Church Hooten on30 Nov 1893 (her father's address was Woodhey, Ledsham). The couple emigrated to New Zealand soon afterwards. It is descendants of Mary Ritchie's brothers and sisters about whom I know virtually nothing. Namely Thornley (b 1871), Gertrude (b 1874 and known not to have married), Evelyn (b 1877), Elfreda (b 1880), & Guy (b 1885). There are also some places which I have been unable to locate and would very much like to find out more about them. Namely: * Middleton Hall, at foot of Moorfoot Hills * Prospect House in Parkgate * Lawton Hall (maybe not in Wirral, but we have some photos of my father, about 1917-'18, and includes lake, church & golf course). It would be greatly appreciated if anyone could shed any light on any of the above please. Many thanks. William William Strang Wellington, NZ

I am in touch with some of my Aunts, Uncles, Cousins but I was wondering if any OTHER members of my extended family are on this list My grandparents shifted to Liverpool to work on the docks and most of the family, perhaps with the exception of my father, have stayed in the area 1. James PAYNE was born on 1 Dec 1877 at the Quarry in Lunds, YKS, ENG. (This could have been the quarry from which the stone for the Lunds viaduct and nearby constructions would have been obtained and also where the Railway Hut of his birth was sited). He has also been reported to have been born on 1 Dec 1877 at Railway Huts in Mossdale Moor, YKS, ENG. He was a student at Crosscanonby, CUL, ENG, on 3 Apr 1881. On 3 Apr 1881, James Payne was living with William Payne and Jane Carleton and William Alan Carlton, Mary Ann Carlton, Harriet Payne, and Sarah Jane Payne (plus family): In addition to the family there were 9 labourers from Ireland who were working on the dock;, at 1 Bank Lane in Crosscanonby, CUL, ENG. He was a student at Grassholme Reservoir, near Mickleton, NRY, ENG. On 6 Apr 1891, James Payne was living with William Payne and David Payne and Harriet Payne (plus family): Widower with three children;, in Hunderthwaite, Teesdale, DUR, ENG. He was a student at Hunderthwaite, Teesdale, DUR, ENG, on 6 Apr 1891. He was a crane driver on 31 Mar 1901 at Muggleswick, DUR, ENG. He was a witness at Henry Calligan and Mary Copeland's wedding on 27 Feb 1902 Muggleswick Parish Church at Muggleswick, DUR, ENG. (or at Lanchester, Consett, Durham). He lived at Hisehope, in Muggleswick, DUR, ENG, on 10 Sep 1902. He was a hut keeper, Hisehope on 10 Sep 1902 at Muggleswick, DUR, ENG. He married Margaret Copeland, daughter of Joseph Copeland and Elizabeth McClymont, on 10 Sep 1902 at the Muggleswick Parish Church in Muggleswick, DUR, ENG. Robert Payne and Elizabeth Copeland witnessed the marriage. He lived at Hisehope, in Muggleswick, DUR, ENG, on 12 Apr 1903. He was a hut keeper, Hisehope on 12 Apr 1903 at Muggleswick, DUR, ENG. He was a steam crane driver on 11 Sep 1908 at ENG (James Payne shifted to Birkenhead to help build the new docks). He lived at 28 Patten Street, in Birkenhead, CHS, ENG, on 23 Oct 1908. He became the foster father of Sally (--?--). (This was because Sally's mother, Elizabeth Broadbent (nee Copeland), had died.). He was a worker at the Mersey Docks and Harbour Board in 1924. He lived at 28 Pattern Street, in Birkenhead, CHS, ENG, in 1926. He died on 11 Jul 1951 at Birkenhead, CHS, ENG, at age 73. Benjamin Payne was the official informant for the death (1a Congestive Heart failure b Heart block c Recent influenza and pneumonia). Margaret COPELAND. Margaret was born in 1880 in Hillmorton, WAR, ENG. She has also been reported to have been born circa 1881 in NTH, ENG. She has also been reported to have been born in Fort William, INV, SCT. On 3 Apr 1881, Margaret Copeland was living with Joseph Copeland and Elizabeth McClymont and Martha Copeland, William Copeland, and Mary Copeland, at 5 School Street in Hillmorton, WAR, ENG. She was a student on 5 Apr 1891. As of 31 Mar 1901, she was also known as Maggie Copeland. She was a cotton weaver on 31 Mar 1901. On 31 Mar 1901, Margaret Copeland was living with James C Lowe and Martha Copeland and Leonard Lowe, Harry Lowe, and Mary Copeland (plus family): Margaret and Mary had probably gone to see their sister's new baby son;, at Brierley Green in Bugsworth, DBY, ENG. She was a witness at Henry Calligan and Mary Copeland's wedding on 27 Feb 1902 Muggleswick Parish Church at Muggleswick, DUR, ENG. (or at Lanchester, Consett, Durham). She lived at Hisehope, in Muggleswick, DUR, ENG, on 10 Sep 1902. She lived at 28 Patten Street, in Birkenhead, CHS, ENG, on 23 Oct 1908. She became the foster mother of Sally (--?--). (This was because Sally's mother, Elizabeth Broadbent (nee Copeland), had died) She became a widow upon the death of her husband James Payne on 11 Jul 1951 (1a Congestive Heart failure b Heart block c Recent influenza and pneumonia). She died on 17 Sep 1954 37 Patricia Avenue at Birkenhead, CHS, ENG,. William David Payne was the official informant for the death (Heart Failure due to Bronchopneumonia). Hoping to make contact with living cousins Jim Jim & Beverley Payne NEW ZEALAND jr_bjpayne@xtra.co.nz Our web site is located at the following URL: http://www.shampayne.org.nz

Kathy, Middle names are tantalising and often frustrating. My wife's family has the surname Graham. They were in India for generations serving the Raj. Unfortunately I don't know where they were in the 18th century before they went to India. Many of them had the middle name Milton right from the start of their time there and I know that it must be a clue but despite much effort it has not led me anywhere. David -----Original Message----- From: Kathybinns@aol.com [mailto:Kathybinns@aol.com] Sent: 05 July 2006 16:39 To: BIRKENHEAD-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BKHD-Wirral] Frank William BELL - Royal Flying Corps In a message dated 05/07/2006 16:31:28 GMT Standard Time, railton.david@btinternet.com writes: It still does leave me with the possibility that the birth in 1899 of Francis William is my man. David, My research subjects have added middle names later in life; dropped the middle names they were given at birth registration; or reversed first and second names whenever the whim took them. Shame their parents didn't give them three names to make things easier for me! Kathy ==== BIRKENHEAD Mailing List ==== Our list Web site with links useful for Wirral genealogy http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~liverpool/BIRKENHEAD-WIRRAL.html ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

Kathy, Thank you. So, 2 different people. It still does leave me with the possibility that the birth in 1899 of Francis William is my man. David -----Original Message----- From: Kathybinns@aol.com [mailto:Kathybinns@aol.com] Sent: 05 July 2006 16:13 To: BIRKENHEAD-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BKHD-Wirral] Frank William BELL - Royal Flying Corps In a message dated 05/07/2006 16:04:45 GMT Standard Time, railton.david@btinternet.com writes: The 1901 census shows a Frank H Bell age 2 living with his parents at 102 Dukes Street, Birkenhead. Hi David, a search of CheshireBMD births results in this entry Cheshire Birth indexes for the years: 1898 BELL Frank Hinton Tranmere Wirral TRA/72/41 Hope this helps with your search best regards Kathy Wirral ==== BIRKENHEAD Mailing List ==== Our list Web site with links useful for Wirral genealogy http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~liverpool/BIRKENHEAD-WIRRAL.html ============================== New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta rgetid=5429

The 1901 census shows a Frank H Bell age 2 living with his parents at 102 Dukes Street, Birkenhead. His father was George Bell age 44 born Keswick. The PRO index shows the birth of a Francis William Bell being registered in the Birkenhead district in 1899. A Sergeant Frank William Bell was a WWI Royal Flying Corps ace (he shot down more than 7 enemy aircraft). He was awarded the Distinguished Flying Medal. The military records I have seen show that he was born on 01.01.1895 in Cheshire. Despite the discrepancies in the date of birth and second forename I wonder if this is the same person - I can find no closer match. Does anyone have any information that may help me with this? David

In a message dated 05/07/2006 16:31:28 GMT Standard Time, railton.david@btinternet.com writes: It still does leave me with the possibility that the birth in 1899 of Francis William is my man. David, My research subjects have added middle names later in life; dropped the middle names they were given at birth registration; or reversed first and second names whenever the whim took them. Shame their parents didn't give them three names to make things easier for me! Kathy

In a message dated 05/07/2006 16:04:45 GMT Standard Time, railton.david@btinternet.com writes: The 1901 census shows a Frank H Bell age 2 living with his parents at 102 Dukes Street, Birkenhead. Hi David, a search of CheshireBMD births results in this entry Cheshire Birth indexes for the years: 1898 BELL Frank Hinton Tranmere Wirral TRA/72/41 Hope this helps with your search best regards Kathy Wirral

Hi Could you please unsubscribe me until I contact you again after my return from the U.K in September Thanks Ann Higginson -----Original Message----- From: Susan Mutch [mailto:susan.mutch@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, 2 July 2006 4:43 AM To: BIRKENHEAD-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BKHD-Wirral] Wirral name interests: MUTCH, MCKEOWN, MCGUINNESS, EVANS, G... Thanks Alice - that's a great help! Good luck with your search. Kind regards, Susan On 6/26/06, Alicerawley@aol.com <Alicerawley@aol.com> wrote: > > there is ellen born 1867 tranmere wirral TRA/7/97 ON CHESHIRE BDM > > > ==== BIRKENHEAD Mailing List ==== > Our list Web site with links useful for Wirral genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~liverpool/BIRKENHEAD-WIRRAL.html > > ============================== > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > New content added every business day. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx > > ==== BIRKENHEAD Mailing List ==== Our list Web site with links useful for Wirral genealogy http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~liverpool/BIRKENHEAD-WIRRAL.html ============================== View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx

Thanks Debbie - that's good to know about Helen/Ellen - they do like to do their best to confuse us don't they! Good luck with your search, Susan On 6/25/06, Debbie Jackson <debandandyjackson@hotmail.com> wrote: > > In reply to ....................> 3. My great grandmother according to her > marriage certificate is Helen > > Darbyshire, b approx 1871 in Birkenhead. She is noted as the daughter > of > > Daniel Darbyshire, a wheelwright, and I believe I've found her working > as > > a > > servant in 1901 census. However other than that she is a total mystery. > > I > > can't find any record of her birth, and, although I've found a > wheelwright > > called Daniel Darbyshire in the census I can't see a Helen among his > > children. > > Hello Susan > > I think that you will find this is the right Daniel you have found. Ellen > and Helen were often the same name during these times. > > Regards > Debbie > > > ==== BIRKENHEAD Mailing List ==== > Our list Web site with links useful for Wirral genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~liverpool/BIRKENHEAD-WIRRAL.html > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > >

Thanks Barbara. I'll be sure to let you know if I find out anything else. On the Stanley Youds side, I'm not sure if you've seen the tree on the following website but it traces back the Stanley family line quite far (as I believe Stanley Youds is the son of John Youds and Ellen Wharton, and Ellen Wharton in turn the daughter of John Wharton and Ellen Stanley). I've not managed to confirm any of it independantly as yet (being in Bermuda it can be a little difficult - as I'm sure you can appreciate being all the way over in New Zealand!). Anyway, here is the link: http://www.clairestanley.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ Good luck with your search and hopefully we can find out something further soon. Kind regards, Your distant 'cousin', Susan On 6/26/06, barbjack <barbjack@xtra.co.nz> wrote: > > Hello. I am also descended from Stanley Youds and Mary Chatterton, my gt > grandmother was Catherine Youds, Mary Youds sister, they had brother > Thomas. Mutch was a miller, and we have connections with Bidston Hill, > Wirral. There is a windmill on the top of the hill and in the 1700's it > was > working. Please keep in contact . Regards. Barbara in New Zealand. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Susan Mutch" <susan.mutch@gmail.com> > To: <BIRKENHEAD-L@rootsweb.com > > Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 4:51 AM > Subject: [BKHD-Wirral] Wirral name interests: MUTCH, MCKEOWN, MCGUINNESS, > EVANS, GOODCHILD, YOUDS, STANLEY, SMITH, HOWARD, UPTON, DARBYSHIRE, DILLON > > > > Hi list, > > > > I'm researching the following names based throughout Wirral: MUTCH, > > MCKEOWN, > > MCGUINNESS, EVANS, GOODCHILD, YOUDS, STANLEY, SMITH, HOWARD, UPTON, > > DARBYSHIRE, DILLON. > > > > In particular, I've traced back as far as the following descendants in > > these > > lines: > > > > 1. Thomas Mutch (b. approx 1825 L Meols) married to Mary Youds (b. > approx > > 1829, Barnston). Mary Youd's father was Stanley Youds (b. 1796, d. > 1862) > > and I've had some success tracing his line further back, thanks greatly > to > > people on this list. Mary's mother I believe was Mary Chatterton (b. > > approx > > 1796 and died between the 1841 and 1851 census) however I've not been > able > > to find any further information on her. > > > > According to the Mutch/Youds marriage certificate, Thomas Mutch's father > > is > > called William. I've not had any luck tracing this line further back, > or > > confirming which William Mutch in the census is a correct match. I also > > > can't confirm which is the correct match for Thomas Mutch in the 1841 or > > 1851 census. > > > > 2. George Smith (b. approx 1836) married Alice Howard (b. approx 1835) > in > > 1857. George Smith is the son of George Smith (in turn the son of > Richard > > Smith?) and Elizabeth (b. approx 1810 surname unknown). They owned a > farm > > in Moreton. Alice Howard's father was John Howard (also a farmer/market > > gardener at Lingham) and I think her mother was Martha Upton. I've not > > managed to trace either line further back at present. > > > > 3. My great grandmother according to her marriage certificate is Helen > > Darbyshire, b approx 1871 in Birkenhead. She is noted as the daughter > of > > Daniel Darbyshire, a wheelwright, and I believe I've found her working > as > > a > > servant in 1901 census. However other than that she is a total mystery. > > I > > can't find any record of her birth, and, although I've found a > wheelwright > > called Daniel Darbyshire in the census I can't see a Helen among his > > children. > > > > If anyone has any further information/insight or even good guesses on > any > > of > > the above I'd love to hear from you. Similarly, if I can be of any > > assistance with any of my name interests please don't hesitate to ask. > > > > Enjoy the rest of the weekend everyone. > > > > Susan Mutch > > > > > > ==== BIRKENHEAD Mailing List ==== > > Our list Web site with links useful for Wirral genealogy > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~liverpool/BIRKENHEAD-WIRRAL.html > > > > > ============================== > > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > > > > ==== BIRKENHEAD Mailing List ==== > Our list Web site with links useful for Wirral genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~liverpool/BIRKENHEAD-WIRRAL.html > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > >

Thanks Alice - that's a great help! Good luck with your search. Kind regards, Susan On 6/26/06, Alicerawley@aol.com <Alicerawley@aol.com> wrote: > > there is ellen born 1867 tranmere wirral TRA/7/97 ON CHESHIRE BDM > > > ==== BIRKENHEAD Mailing List ==== > Our list Web site with links useful for Wirral genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~liverpool/BIRKENHEAD-WIRRAL.html > > ============================== > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > New content added every business day. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx > >

Looking for links to :- James MONAGHAN a Mason alive 1850 when mentioned as a Mason on his daughter Catherine's marriage to William MUNDAY. James was dead by 2879 when Catherine as a Widow married a Daniel QUINN. Have a John Munday brn Liverpool circa 1849,William Munday brn.B'Head1852,George again B'Head in 1854,Mary B'Head in 1856,Anna (Hannah) Chester in 1859.All these children appear in the 1861 census but then disappear,tried different seaches to no avail any suggestions please as to finding them. Thanks suzanne dodd

Hi List, My Certificate came today, and I was so excited because the Father of my Richard Carroll is Daniel Carroll. I have now got a whole family to work with, but after a whole day of searching 1861 census and Births Deaths & Marriages, I came up with nothing. I just don't seem to have any luck with this family, please does anyone have an index for later census records. Sorry to ask again, but I just do not know what I am doing wrong. Best wishes, Pat. 1841 Daniel Carroll 30 Labourer born Ireland Ann Carroll 25 Born Ireland Mary Carroll 10 Born Cheshire Martha Carroll 8 Born Cheshire Margaret Carroll 6 Born Cheshire Daniel Carroll 1 Born Cheshire William Carroll 3 Born Cheshire Richard Carroll 5 Born Cheshire

Hi To All. Regarding address of residence given at the time of marriage. I have two sets of G.G. Grandparents marrying in Liverpool and have not been able to make a connection to the addresses given at the time. In 1838 my people were married at Christ's Church, Hunter Street, Liverpool and both gave their address as Hanover Street, Liverpool (no number) Then in 1854 another couple were married at St Nicholas Church, Liverpool and both gave their address as Russell Street (no number) Both couples were non-conformists. In 1838 both parties of the first couple lived in Liverpool and then moved to Birkenhead. With the second couple (in 1854) the bride was from St Helens, and the groom b Scotland, lived in Liverpool in 1851. After the marriage they lived in St Helens. My thoughts were that both couples fulfilled the legal requirement to marry in a Church of England Church\Establishment and possibly had a second, ceremony in the Church of their own belief. I have not been able to place any relatives living in either Russell or Hanover streets, which is a disappointment. Does anyone have information on boarding houses or hotels in either of these streets in 1838 and 1854? Kind Regards, Anne. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006

Hi Found Daniel Carrol in 1861 ref RG9/2643 sheet 21 page 53 Good Luck Jeanette patluv57 <patluv57@iprimus.com.au> wrote: Hi List, My Certificate came today, and I was so excited because the Father of my Richard Carroll is Daniel Carroll. I have now got a whole family to work with, but after a whole day of searching 1861 census and Births Deaths & Marriages, I came up with nothing. I just don't seem to have any luck with this family, please does anyone have an index for later census records. Sorry to ask again, but I just do not know what I am doing wrong. Best wishes, Pat. 1841 Daniel Carroll 30 Labourer born Ireland Ann Carroll 25 Born Ireland Mary Carroll 10 Born Cheshire Martha Carroll 8 Born Cheshire Margaret Carroll 6 Born Cheshire Daniel Carroll 1 Born Cheshire William Carroll 3 Born Cheshire Richard Carroll 5 Born Cheshire ==== BIRKENHEAD Mailing List ==== Our list Web site with links useful for Wirral genealogy http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~liverpool/BIRKENHEAD-WIRRAL.html ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx --------------------------------- All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine

I've not found any updated information from that source for about 2 years and don't have high expectations of doing so now. I think its par for the course where there are volunteer transcribers. Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Hayes" <mikeljan1@yahoo.co.uk> > Hi List > Just wondering if anyone knows what's happening with the Cheshire Surnames Directory? It does not seem to have been updated for the last 12 months. > I have contactedMr Alan Bennett the cheshire surnames administrator but have had no replies from him or anyone else. My email has changed since I first went on there but it has not been changed. > > Regards > > Mike Hayes