Hello Everyone.. I am new to this list , my name is Kathy. I have been doing genealogy for a few years. I have just started researching my mums family and found her great grandfather in the 1881 census , 43 Camden St. Birkenhead, Cheshire, William JONES was a Marble Mason, age 36, born in Birkenhead, his wife Mary (CHAIN) JONES was born in West Kirby, Cheshire , her age 38, children listed as : Anne JONES age 13 , John W. JONES age 10, Alfred JONES age 3 and Mary E. JONES age 10m. All the children were born in Birkenhead. Could some one tell me if there is a 1891 census and if so would the LDS Church have it ? I live in Oklahoma USA and I am find out just how hard it is to get information from over the pond. I hope some one can point me in the right direction from here. I have found some information on the Cheshire BMD site. Any other sites I should look at ???? Best Regards Kathy Southerland Oklahoma USA

Hello to all the list members. I have just joined and here are my family interests in the area. Peter ROBERTS, my grt. grt. grandfather was baptised 1805 in Bridge Trafford. His father was John and his mother was Ann(DODD). and moved to Parkgate some time before 1825. He married Mary THOMPSON, but I have not found the marriage. They moved to Hoylake some time between 1831 and 1835. Peter and family are on the 1841 and 1851 census at Hoylake, then in 1861, 71 and 81 in Liverpool. Peter died in 1884 and is buried at Holy Trinity, Hoylake. He was a customs officer. Children are: John William Mary Anne my grt. grandmother Peter Elizabeth James Robert George Other names connected are: NICHOLSON PRICE Does anyone have any connections to this family. Regards Dorothy

Hello All, I seem to have gathered quite a few famillies in the area, any connection or Information gratefully received BATTARBEE Henry, apprentice Pilot boat No 11 Birkenhead on the 1881 Sister Fanny born Oct 1860 Birkenhead Also in West Derby and Liverpool Or any Batterbee/Battarbee LLOYD living in Seacombe 1881( have quite a few but no firm connections) HEWITT James and Sarah also in Seacombe 1881 WARBURTON Henry and Mary Jane(ROYLE) a Flatman, lived Hilbre St Birkenhead until 1911 THORNTON Jessie born Leta Rd Birkenhead dau of Thomas William THORNTON and Jessie(Warburton) WEDGWOOD Josiah died 1927 Pendennis Rd Wallasey X Eliza Ann BOOTH WEDGWOOD Cecil X Florence Beatrice DRURY at Poulton "Primative Methodist Sunday School" Mum said it was a Tin Hut....... Would love to hear any info about it? DRURY Charles Samuel, a Stationer lived in Wallasey until 1947 X Edith Jane EDWARDS. Ringing any Bells ? Thank you Catherine Salt in Cheshire interests SALT North staffs Moorland DRURY shrops and Liverpool ROYLE Northwich Area BATTERBEE Flint/Ches Border and Liverpool RICHARDS Worthenbury flints and Malpas WEDGWOOD Oldham

Joyce, I just thought I would throw my 2cents into this thread. It certainly does relate to genealogy. My mother and my two sisters have Van Willibrandts disease. Not sure I have spelled that correctly, but it is rare form of hemophilia. I do not have it, but my sisters do AND one nephew (recently diagnosed). Every minor surgery becomes a major effort for them, and major surgery requires several doctors and plenty of preparation. As part of my genealogy research, I request the death certificate, to determine if this disease played a role in their demise. I recently learned that my great grandfather died of Locomotor Ataxia, which can also be hereditary. We owe it to ourselves to be vigilant to such disorders. Genealogy research is fun, but it can also save lives. Knowledge is power. John Farrall Burke, Virginia ----- Original Message ----- From: <CRETEYET@aol.com> To: <BIRKENHEAD-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 1:52 PM Subject: [BKHD] Matrilineal Line > Hello all Listers - I received a message written in French suggesting as I > understood it that we list our female ancestors icw Womans Day. > > I wrote up a list but it seems it was wrong. I got the following answer and > subsequent comments which will follow in a separate message. > > Not quite what Guy was talking about. What is meant here is a listing > of all the FEMALES in one's ascending line in a similar fashion to what is > normally done when we list our ancestors through our father's ascending > line. The great advantage in doing our paternal line is that our last name > doesn't normally change, whereas maternal lines change name every time > an ancestress marries, (assuming, of course, she doesn't marry someone > with an identical last name). > > Genetically we inherit, male and female both, what is called our "mtDNA" > or mitochondrial DNA from our mothers. This is a specific and quite > unusual type of DNA which is not in the cell's nucleus as most DNA is. > Instead, it is in the substance outside the nucleus, and it is inherited > ONLY FROM THE MOTHER, and she, in turn, inherited it only from her > mother, and so on back. This is not just any matrilineal line, but rather > a very specific umbilical line. In your pedigree chart, this umbilical line > comprises the numbers 1, 3, 7, 15, 31, 63, 127, 255, 511, etc. > > Males get their mtDNA from their mothers, but they will not pass theirs on. > In the absence of mutation (change in the DNA), a person's mtDNA will be > identical to his or her mother's mother's mother's.... etc. mtDNA. Thus if > you and I share a common ancestral woman at the top of our umbilical > lines, your mtDNA and mine should be identical after HUNDREDS of years. > > We french-canadians have a population that looks like a pyramid or cone > with very flat sides, due to the fact that probably no more than 5000 souls > actually left descendants. Adding to this small genetic base is the relative > completeness of good primary source material. We have a population that > due to its relatively rare intermarriage with other ethnic groups until > recently, > our gene pool has retained its integrity. (My Irish-German wife is the first > non french-canadian lady in my line in over 350 years). > > This mtDNA research has practical applications beside genetically tying us > into segments of the European population Even today in Argentina many > grandmothers of women that were arrested and executed as political > activists during that country's "Dirty War" have given blood samples to have > their mtDNA categorized. It is a little known fact that when these arrested > women were found to be pregnant, they were allowed to go to term with their > child before being executed. Their child was then given to loyal members of > the regime to be reared. By tying in the mtDNA samples taken from these > same children with the known mtDNA in the grandmothers' data base, these > children are in the process of being re-united with their biological > families. > > While in Argentina I saw these grandmothers marching on Sundays in front > of the "Pink Palace" in Buenos Aires to publicize their movement. Professor > Mary-Claire King, formely of the University of California, Berkeley, has been > > in the forefront of helping these grandmothers set up their mtDNA data base. > I even had my own blood sample taken there to be inserted into their data > base of french-canadians, but that program is apparently still on the back > burner. written by J.-Richard-Laurent Boucher in Lafayette, California > > A COMMENT AND SLIGHT CORRECTION FOLLOWS:Your French-Canadian friend is right > about the mitochondrial DNA being an important source of information. > However, the statement that it is in the "substance outside the nucleus" is a > bit vague. It is actually in the mitochondria of eukaryotic cells, hence the > name mitochondrial DNA. The mitochondria are the powerhouses of the cell, > engaged in aerobic respiration - the breakdown of nutrients to release > energy. Mitochondrial DNA was sequenced in the 1980s and found to have less > than 17,000 base pair sequences - as contrasted with the some 3 billion base > pairs of the nuclear DNA. Because of the smaller size and the fact it > divides separate of the nuclear DNA, the DNA in the mitocondria offer a > number of interesting possibilities in researching lineages. For example, it > is part of the process of identifying the locale and age of our earliest > evolutionary ancestors. WRITTEN BY DAVID. > > more to follow in a separate message Joyce > > > ==== BIRKENHEAD Mailing List ==== > To contact the administrator of this mailing list, send mail to > BIRKENHEAD-admin@rootsweb.com > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

Hello all Listers - I received a message written in French suggesting as I understood it that we list our female ancestors icw Womans Day. I wrote up a list but it seems it was wrong. I got the following answer and subsequent comments which will follow in a separate message. Not quite what Guy was talking about. What is meant here is a listing of all the FEMALES in one's ascending line in a similar fashion to what is normally done when we list our ancestors through our father's ascending line. The great advantage in doing our paternal line is that our last name doesn't normally change, whereas maternal lines change name every time an ancestress marries, (assuming, of course, she doesn't marry someone with an identical last name). Genetically we inherit, male and female both, what is called our "mtDNA" or mitochondrial DNA from our mothers. This is a specific and quite unusual type of DNA which is not in the cell's nucleus as most DNA is. Instead, it is in the substance outside the nucleus, and it is inherited ONLY FROM THE MOTHER, and she, in turn, inherited it only from her mother, and so on back. This is not just any matrilineal line, but rather a very specific umbilical line. In your pedigree chart, this umbilical line comprises the numbers 1, 3, 7, 15, 31, 63, 127, 255, 511, etc. Males get their mtDNA from their mothers, but they will not pass theirs on. In the absence of mutation (change in the DNA), a person's mtDNA will be identical to his or her mother's mother's mother's.... etc. mtDNA. Thus if you and I share a common ancestral woman at the top of our umbilical lines, your mtDNA and mine should be identical after HUNDREDS of years. We french-canadians have a population that looks like a pyramid or cone with very flat sides, due to the fact that probably no more than 5000 souls actually left descendants. Adding to this small genetic base is the relative completeness of good primary source material. We have a population that due to its relatively rare intermarriage with other ethnic groups until recently, our gene pool has retained its integrity. (My Irish-German wife is the first non french-canadian lady in my line in over 350 years). This mtDNA research has practical applications beside genetically tying us into segments of the European population Even today in Argentina many grandmothers of women that were arrested and executed as political activists during that country's "Dirty War" have given blood samples to have their mtDNA categorized. It is a little known fact that when these arrested women were found to be pregnant, they were allowed to go to term with their child before being executed. Their child was then given to loyal members of the regime to be reared. By tying in the mtDNA samples taken from these same children with the known mtDNA in the grandmothers' data base, these children are in the process of being re-united with their biological families. While in Argentina I saw these grandmothers marching on Sundays in front of the "Pink Palace" in Buenos Aires to publicize their movement. Professor Mary-Claire King, formely of the University of California, Berkeley, has been in the forefront of helping these grandmothers set up their mtDNA data base. I even had my own blood sample taken there to be inserted into their data base of french-canadians, but that program is apparently still on the back burner. written by J.-Richard-Laurent Boucher in Lafayette, California A COMMENT AND SLIGHT CORRECTION FOLLOWS:Your French-Canadian friend is right about the mitochondrial DNA being an important source of information. However, the statement that it is in the "substance outside the nucleus" is a bit vague. It is actually in the mitochondria of eukaryotic cells, hence the name mitochondrial DNA. The mitochondria are the powerhouses of the cell, engaged in aerobic respiration - the breakdown of nutrients to release energy. Mitochondrial DNA was sequenced in the 1980s and found to have less than 17,000 base pair sequences - as contrasted with the some 3 billion base pairs of the nuclear DNA. Because of the smaller size and the fact it divides separate of the nuclear DNA, the DNA in the mitocondria offer a number of interesting possibilities in researching lineages. For example, it is part of the process of identifying the locale and age of our earliest evolutionary ancestors. WRITTEN BY DAVID. more to follow in a separate message Joyce

Hi Can anyone tell me if there are any trade directories that cover the area of Borough Road Birkenhead 1880-1910. My g-g-g-grandfather Jonathan STOREY (and later his son John STOREY) had premises at 49 Borough Road during these years although his occupation seems to have changed from Undertaker/cab-driver to greengrocer over the years. I was wondering if he might have lived over the shop? Or perhaps someone can tell me whether those dwellings were ever commercial properties. Kind regards Leigh Yeager (YeagerLA@aol.com)

In a message dated 09/03/02 10:38:41 GMT Standard Time, forteviot@hotmail.com writes: > > Hi List / Dave, > > I to have vague memory of there being a Registration Office in Hoylake > -and > also at the old "Clatterbridge Hospital " they had some facility. > > Regards > Louise > Hi My dad tells me that at one time births could be registered at the hospital where the baby was born but would I be right in assuming that these were then passed on to a local registrars office and then collated by district? Kind regards Leigh

Thanks for the feedback. It is apparent the Upton RO in question was not the one in Wirral. Thanks all, Gil Upton

I also remember a facility in Hoylake during the 50's where you could call in and register BMDs. It was in Elm Grove, near the corner with Market Street opposite the Punch Bowl Hotel. I think it closed in the 60's. It sticks in my mind because just across Market Street, in Trinity Road, there was a home for unmarried mothers (Prospect House, I think), a church and cemetery. A pretty good location for a BMD facility <g> Dave Sunny Adelaide -----Original Message----- From: Louise Phillips [mailto:forteviot@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, 9 March 2002 4:25 AM To: BIRKENHEAD-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [BKHD] Missing Birthdates/Registration Hello List , Not sure if THIS will be of any help -here goes !.. There are 2 BMD registration offices on the Wirral.. THe Birkenhead one and ALSO one at Wallasey - and at some point in the 19th c there was also SOME facility to register BMD's at a place called NESTON - I dont want to send anyone on a "Wild Goose" trip - perhaps someone on the list from Birkenhead may be able to elaborate on this ??. Regards Louise Birkenhead. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ______________________________

Hi List / Dave, I to have vague memory of there being a Registration Office in Hoylake -and also at the old "Clatterbridge Hospital " they had some facility. Regards Louise Birkenhead. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

Hello List, The Wallasey Registration office moved there Records to Birkenhead in 1997. Louise Birkenhead. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com

Hi listers, i couldnt resist these strays, residing in Her Majesty Convict Prison.Prince Town.Lidford.Devon.1881. Thomas Simpson. U. 52. Liverpool. John Davies. M. 26 " Thomas Riley M. 27. " Patrick Mitchells U. 32 " George Gray. U. 25 " Robert Buffadine M. 37 " John Thomas Holligan. M. 27 ". James Truslin. U 41 " Francis Everington U. 24 " Peter Mulhearn. U. 21 " Richard O Brien. U 28. " John Brown U 25 " James King M. 28. " James Baker U 23 " John Flynn U 18 " Thomas Benjamin West M 67 " Samuel White U 21 " Thomas Bird U 44 George Williams U 38 James MacIver U 29 William Grimes M. 61 Timothy Digmun. U 24 Thomas Cannon. U 26 Robert Ball M 47 Charles Britton. U 26 James Graykin U 32 Henry Molloy U 23 William Calton M 45 William Thomson U 30 John Fitzgerald. U 40 James McLean U 27 John Telford M 29 Patrick Cuff U 24 Daniel Taafe U 28 Thomas Layton U 59 Eli Berry M 43 I have to say i thought it would never end.and what an eye opener.people from all over the world residing in here.must be nigh on a thousand of them.

Hello Gilbert, Have you tried to contact the D.T.I. (suggest google) they may be able to answer your question on company law. regards Barbara NORTHWICH. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gilbert Upton" <uptonga@cybase.co.uk> To: <BIRKENHEAD-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 11:09 PM Subject: [BKHD] OFF TOPIC - Company accounts > I have been looking at ways of tracking some small > company accounts fron the 1920s forward but with no > surviving archive of published accounts around. There > are some in Companies House and I was thinking I could > get two for the price of one if the prior year results > were shown for comparison. > > My first forays have been disappointing (up to 1920) as > only 'current year' results were filed. > > Does anyone know when the requirement ot show current > and prior year figures became part of Company Law > (England & Wales)? > > Reply off list please. > > Many thanks, > > Gil Upton > > > ==== BIRKENHEAD Mailing List ==== > To contact the administrator of this mailing list, send mail to > BIRKENHEAD-admin@rootsweb.com > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

I have been looking at ways of tracking some small company accounts fron the 1920s forward but with no surviving archive of published accounts around. There are some in Companies House and I was thinking I could get two for the price of one if the prior year results were shown for comparison. My first forays have been disappointing (up to 1920) as only 'current year' results were filed. Does anyone know when the requirement ot show current and prior year figures became part of Company Law (England & Wales)? Reply off list please. Many thanks, Gil Upton

1. Is anyone researching the family of Robert S Trueman who died Q1/1964 age 67 in Wirral? 2. When checking some BMD fiches, I found that the registration office for one of the names I came across, but I could not be sure it was my target, was Upton. This was in Q1 1941. Would this be Upton, Wirral, or one of the other Uptons around the country? Seems to be too small a place to have its own RO. Or maybe it was a part-time outpost of Birkenhead. Many thanks, Gil Upton

Hello Louise, are you sure about this? I recently purchased Birth Certificates from Birkenhead for relatives who were born in Poulton-cum-Seacombe wallasey, I was not told or even refferred to an office elsewhere. Maybe in days gone by that might have been the case, I assumed that the registrars office in Birkenhead was responsible for certificates for all of wirral. now. I will be delighted to hear from anyone who knows the correct answer to this. Regards Barbara Northwich. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Louise Phillips" <forteviot@hotmail.com> To: <BIRKENHEAD-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 5:55 PM Subject: [BKHD] Missing Birthdates/Registration > Hello List , > > Not sure if THIS will be of any help -here goes !.. There are 2 BMD > registration offices on the Wirral.. THe Birkenhead one and ALSO one at > Wallasey - and at some point in the 19th c there was also SOME facility to > register BMD's at a place called NESTON - I dont want to send anyone on a > "Wild Goose" trip - perhaps someone on the list from Birkenhead may be able > to elaborate on this ??. > > Regards > Louise > Birkenhead. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > > ==== BIRKENHEAD Mailing List ==== > To contact the administrator of this mailing list, send mail to > BIRKENHEAD-admin@rootsweb.com > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

Hello List , Not sure if THIS will be of any help -here goes !.. There are 2 BMD registration offices on the Wirral.. THe Birkenhead one and ALSO one at Wallasey - and at some point in the 19th c there was also SOME facility to register BMD's at a place called NESTON - I dont want to send anyone on a "Wild Goose" trip - perhaps someone on the list from Birkenhead may be able to elaborate on this ??. Regards Louise Birkenhead. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

Sandy, The only information our family in the US had on our great grandmother was a Birkenhead News clipping mentioning her 100th birthday on 6 June 1950 and that there was to be a big celebration at the home of her unmarried daughter, Susan. They mentioned her husband having died in 1911, which was incorrect - he died in 1906. They gave a numerical count of her children. grandchildren and great grandchildren. They also mentioned the congratulatory telegram from King George. That is all the information any of my family had. How she knew when she was born is beyond me! I had three separate individuals, in England, research the official records to no avail. I personally sent a letter and an application to the GRO and it came back with a note that the information was not on file. John Farrall Burke, Virginia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandy Stokes" <sandystokes@cogeco.ca> To: <BIRKENHEAD-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 10:23 AM Subject: Re: [BKHD] Missing Birthdates > John, > > I also have a relative, my great grandmother, born in 1850, the same year as > yours who doesn't seem to possess a birth certificate either. One census > says she is born in Birkenhead, another says Hoylake. I had a researcher > investigate a few years ago and he could find no baptismal record either. I > am wondering how you went about finding your information from the Birkenhead > News? > > Sandy Stokes in Ontario, Canada > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Farrall" <jfarrall@cox.rr.com> > To: <BIRKENHEAD-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 5:38 PM > Subject: [BKHD] Missing Birthdates > > > Listers, > I am puzzled. Somebody educate me. I have a great grandfather, born c. > 1852, great grandmother, born exactly 6 June 1850 (according to the > Birkenhead News) and two great aunts, born c 1873 and 1883, who's birth > records (date and place of birth) do not officially exist. That doesn't > puzzle me as much as how someone could spent a 70 - 100 year lifespan and > NOT have to record ones date and place of birth somewhere. Weren't there > SOME documents, registrations (like school), rental papers, or other type > documents where one must list their birthdates or where they were born? How > was employment handled? Were there wages taxed? Did they register to > vote - How? How did they obtain housing? Did they just come out of the > woods and smile? I am looking for other options or venues to obtain > birthdates. Any "out of the envelope" ideas? Maybe I am just too used to > having to produce an identification document several times daily. I would > appreciate any unique ideas or sugg! > estions. Thanks! > > Moving Forward With Glacial Speed, > John Farrall > Burke, Virginia > > Researching: FARRALL, DAWSON, WHITEHEAD, HALL, ROBERTS, BRAITHWAITE, > BEBINGTON, GREEN, FERGUSSON, WHITE > > ______________________________ > > > ==== BIRKENHEAD Mailing List ==== > To contact the administrator of this mailing list, send mail to > BIRKENHEAD-admin@rootsweb.com > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

Good morning John. Read your email with interest......... how about this....... there are NO records of when my grandfather, grandmother or 3 of their children were born, the 4 child, my mother I only know that date and location because she told me. More than that, my mother didn't keep any records of my birth, schooling, degrees, etc., fortunately, I was able to get birth certificates from the registry office in Liverpool........ strange. I have been looking for my grandparents for 5 years and only last month, by chance, found a clue that MAY lead me to their births and deaths and locations where they may be buried. Frustrating to say the least. Bryan. Colorado Springs. Colorado.

John, I also have a relative, my great grandmother, born in 1850, the same year as yours who doesn't seem to possess a birth certificate either. One census says she is born in Birkenhead, another says Hoylake. I had a researcher investigate a few years ago and he could find no baptismal record either. I am wondering how you went about finding your information from the Birkenhead News? Sandy Stokes in Ontario, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Farrall" <jfarrall@cox.rr.com> To: <BIRKENHEAD-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 5:38 PM Subject: [BKHD] Missing Birthdates Listers, I am puzzled. Somebody educate me. I have a great grandfather, born c. 1852, great grandmother, born exactly 6 June 1850 (according to the Birkenhead News) and two great aunts, born c 1873 and 1883, who's birth records (date and place of birth) do not officially exist. That doesn't puzzle me as much as how someone could spent a 70 - 100 year lifespan and NOT have to record ones date and place of birth somewhere. Weren't there SOME documents, registrations (like school), rental papers, or other type documents where one must list their birthdates or where they were born? How was employment handled? Were there wages taxed? Did they register to vote - How? How did they obtain housing? Did they just come out of the woods and smile? I am looking for other options or venues to obtain birthdates. Any "out of the envelope" ideas? Maybe I am just too used to having to produce an identification document several times daily. I would appreciate any unique ideas or sugg! estions. Thanks! Moving Forward With Glacial Speed, John Farrall Burke, Virginia Researching: FARRALL, DAWSON, WHITEHEAD, HALL, ROBERTS, BRAITHWAITE, BEBINGTON, GREEN, FERGUSSON, WHITE ______________________________