Hello Wendy, Many thanks for your overview of the Family tree programmes. the experience of users is more recommendation than all the media blurb! Charles Matthews FHSC 3977WK --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.805 / Virus Database: 547 - Release Date: 03/12/2004

Hi Listers, I can recommend Legacy V5 , free download, or the Deluxe version for a small price. I have used this programme for years after getting fed up with the cost of upgrading Family Tree maker. However I still use Family Tree Maker V9 by transfer an up-to-date GEDCOM into it, for the purpose of printing out decorative trees. I may actually get the latest versions some time in the future. At the time of changing over to Legacy, I had calculated that FTM was costing me the equivalent of £1 a week to maintain, that is purchasing the updates, about twice a year. I may be cheaper now. Family Tree maker is a good program, visually easy on the eyes and I would recommend this program to compliment Legacy, just for the drawing of trees. It is easy to use, for anyone who is beginning FH or the advanced user who doesn't want too many features. Family Tree Maker has a useful facility of being able to move your people around on the Family Tree Charts that you may want to print out. Legacy Family Tree updates it program free of charge and you could have a few of these in a year, and an UPGRADE less frequently, again for a very small charge compared to others. It has many bells and whistles which some people may find to be a bit daunting, but nevertheless, a very good program., which you can customise for yourself. After sales service is quick and efficient, I would say far more efficient than some British Retailers ( not necessarily Genealogy). Whenever I have contacted Legacy about lost membership numbers for any of the programs I have had through them, they have answered me in a the same day, time difference to be allowed for. For other general enquiries they same response. If I have contacted them in the morning GMT, I have usually got an answer in the afternoon GMT. Their web site is very good too. Go to http://www.legacyfamilytree.com/ Upgrading to the Deluxe Version 5, is inexpensive and can be done online just like the free version. I would use this as it unlocks other facilities for you. In summary, if you have the opportunity to use both, do so, as they both have good functions which the other may not have. Use one for your main entries and updating ( I use Legacy) and then make an up to date GEDCOM and import it into Family Tree Maker for updating any tree you may have. Be careful over photos being transferred as I haven't tried that one yet. Back up your data regularly and do it to a CD or DVD too, and don't forget to test it before deleting any excess files. Hope this helps, Wendy -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.5 - Release Date: 03/12/2004

I can recommend the Deluxe version of Legacy. It is currently one of the best and has many features , possibly too many for most people, but you can just use those that you require. It also has a users site and Legacy will give a speedy response to any queries that you may have. The free version is rather limited, but if you download that, you can always upgrade. The Deluxe price is only about £11, which makes it about the least expensive on the market. Give the freebie a try, then make your decision. John

I have today found a message that last year the owners of the rights to FAMILY ORIGINS was no longer supporting it and sales and customer service no longer exist. the buyers have recommended Family tree maker ( naturally its their product). My question of genealogy enthusiasts is do they have experience of LEGACY FAMILY TREE PROGRAMME. There is a free version available for down loading. Charles --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.805 / Virus Database: 547 - Release Date: 03/12/2004

Hi List I have found out from the Wirral archives library that my two gt gt gt aunts are buried in the same plot in Rake Lane cemetery: BURIAL REGISTERS Rake Lane Cemetery, Wallasey. Non Conformist section Margaret Helsby Buried 21 Jan 1907 age 47 87 Bell Road, Egremont Grave 4th class section 13g plot 788 Elizabeth Helsby Buried 20 Oct 1917 age 70 22 Chatham Road, Rock Ferry Grave 4th class section 13g plot 788 If anyone is visiting Rake Lane cemetery and has time to seek out this plot I would be so grateful to see if there is a headstone and what it says. Thanks to anyone who can help. Regards Jen

Hello Dot You need my list of useful web sites you will find all about ship, boats and all other vessels on these sites or links to further info. ( HOW TO USE) :- save this mail to a new folder and when you want to go to the web site, bring up the folder and click on the web address, this will take you there. This gives you the the options not to clog your favorite sites I HOPE THESE CAN OTHERS AS WELL Best of luck Eric.s -------Original Message------- From: dot rochard To: [email protected] Subject: [BKHD-Wirral] China Boats First of all - a very big thank you to everyone who responded to my appeal about the China Boats. I had lots of suggestions including information from someone who used to work for them and who now lives in Australia! Dot Marine, Ships , info. www.mightyseas.co.uk www.angelfire.com Manchester Archives and Local Studies: http://www.manchester.gov.uk/libraries/arls/ Our Manchester: http://manchesterhistory.net/ Manchester & Lancashire Family History Society: http://www.mlfhs.org.uk/ Lancashire Family History and Heraldry Society: http://www.lancashire-fhhs.org.uk/ The Record Society of Lancashire and Cheshire: http://www.gmcro.co.uk/guides/record_society/record_society.htm Greater Manchester County Record Office: http://www.gmcro.co.uk/ <http://www.lancashire-fhhs.org.uk/>Papillon Graphics' Virtual Encyclopaedia of Greater Manchester: http://www.manchester2002-uk.com/history.html <http://www.manchester2002-uk.com/history.html>UK BDM Exchange: http://www.ukbdm.co.uk GENUKI: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/ (information for all the British Isles), http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/ (Lancashire) Cyndi's list: http://www.cyndislist.com/ English Origins (pay to view): http://www.englishorigins.com/ UK Parish Locator program: http://www.parloc.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ParLoc.htm <http://www.parloc.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ParLoc.htm> England Wills Exchange Database: http://members.tripod.com/~Caryl_Williams/ewills.html Old Maps: http://www.yourmapsonline.org.uk/ FamilySearch: http://www.familysearch.org/ (now with free search of the 1881 census) UK, USA and CANADA Commonwealth War Graves Commission: http://www.cwgc.org/ Free Directory Enquiries: http://www.192.com/directoryenquiries.cfm 1901 census (pay to view): http://www.census.pro.gov.uk/ Archaic medical terms: http://www.paul_smith.doctors.org.uk/ArchaicMedicalTerms.htm BBC Family History: http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/lj/familylj/index.shtml Documents online: http://www.documentsonline.pro.gov.uk/ Salford Hundred: http://www.mancuniensis.btinternet.co.uk/index.htm Jewish Genealogical Society of Great Britain: http://www.jgsgb.org.uk/info1.shtml Cemsearch-UK: http://www.cemsearch.co.uk/ <http://www.jgsgb.org.uk/info1.shtml>A2A database: http://www.a2a.pro.gov.uk/ <http://www.jgsgb.org.uk/info1.shtml>Passenger lists, shipping schedules, etc.: http://TheShipsList.com/ <http://TheShipsList.com/> "Your official source for family records": http://www.FamilyRecords.gov.uk Kew on line www.pro.gov.uk B.D.M. www.ukbmd/org.uk Family record centre on line www.1837online.com Evacuees info. www.evacuees.org.uk NWKFHS Kent web site www.nwkfhs.org.uk/

First of all - a very big thank you to everyone who responded to my appeal about the China Boats. I had lots of suggestions including information from someone who used to work for them and who now lives in Australia! However while looking for unrelated information for someone else I searched through some old Birkenhead books and found this: "In 1902 Alfred Holt took over the 18 steamers of the China Mutual Steam Navigation Co. Ltd bringing the Blue Funnel fleet up to 53 ships" and from another book: "The world famed Blue Funnel Line ( the Ocean Steam Ship Co. and the China Mutual Steamship Co.) was founded in 1852 by the late Mr Alfred Holt"........... I also have a advert for the Blue Funnel Line also confirming the connections with the China Mutual and Ocean Steam Ship companies. I will scan this so if anyone would like this please get in touch Thanks again Dot

Hello Colin, Many thanks for your swift reply this adds another branch to my HUGHES ancestors, in Birkenhead, Annie was my grandfather's sister, ANN HUGHES before marriage the daughter of JOHN HUGHES builder of Tranmere. Yes I would appreciate a copy of the original record. I will send my address off-line directly to you. Many thanks again. Charles --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.805 / Virus Database: 547 - Release Date: 03/12/2004

Alan I have the actual certificate my grandfather was given for "Grant of exclusive right of burial" in Flaybrick - this is what is meant by a "private grave". It states "To hold the same to the said Alfred MATTHEWS his heirs and assigns for ever. This was in 1928. The top part reads "By virtue of the powers conferred on Burial Boards, constituted under the Act of Parliament 20 and 21 Victoria, Chapter 81, and the other acts incorporated therewith, to grant exclusive rights of burial. At the bottom of the cert it says "NOTE. In the event of a transfer of this grant to a "Non - parishioner" the transferee will be required to pay the Burial Board further charges by the regulations affecting the cemetery"....this cert is of course much later than the dates of your ancestors burials There were fifteen specific Burial Acts being passed by Parliament between 1852 and 1906, also there were other acts concerning local government, churches, coroners and so on which impinged upon burial law. After the 1853 Burial Act, local authorities were able to establish their own cemeteries, and Burial Boards were set up to administer them. The Local Government Act of 1894 transferred these duties to the District and Parish Councils. It might be worth writing again to Wirral archives to check which of these acts were in place and how the local Burial Board in Birkenhead were interpreting them at the time of your ancestors (and the people interred with them) burials to see if they allowed other non related burials into "private graves". I seem to recall that there was some sort of "hundred year rule" where private graves were undisturbed Caryl In a message dated 12/4/2004 2:05:27 AM GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: John Thanks for this, as it was a "private" grave on the record I couldn't work it out!! Alan Alan Sutton www.ownersinportugal.org -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 04 December 2004 01:20 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BKHD-Wirral] Flaybrick Burials- Help Alan Probably they were not related. On a trip round Bebington cemetery last year I found people who I'd never heard of in my ancestors graves. I assumed them to be paupers or people with no living relatives to pay for a burial. Other people found the same thing. John ==== BIRKENHEAD Mailing List ==== Our list Web site with links useful for Wirral genealogy http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~liverpool/BIRKENHEAD-WIRRAL.htm l

Hi Alan, I would do some further research before I decided if they were unrelated. I have found that burials in private graves are members of the same family possibly a generation or two apart - while those in public graves are usually unrelated. I found that Flaybrick also listed the address and rank or occupation in the burial registers. These details may help you. Good luck Kathy Wirral

John Thanks for this, as it was a "private" grave on the record I couldn't work it out!! Alan Alan Sutton www.ownersinportugal.org -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 04 December 2004 01:20 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BKHD-Wirral] Flaybrick Burials- Help Alan Probably they were not related. On a trip round Bebington cemetery last year I found people who I'd never heard of in my ancestors graves. I assumed them to be paupers or people with no living relatives to pay for a burial. Other people found the same thing. John ==== BIRKENHEAD Mailing List ==== Our list Web site with links useful for Wirral genealogy http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~liverpool/BIRKENHEAD-WIRRAL.htm l ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

This is a request for anyone who may have the Parish registers for a burial in one of these churches (? possibly) I am trying to find the burial of my 5g grandfather EDWARD SUTTON who died 21st October 1858 at Dock Cottages Birkenhead. This was before the Flaybrick cemetery opened and although his wife is in Flaybrick I think this where he is likely to be? Or is it likely he would be buried in his "home town" of Newton le Willows? He was not wealthy. Any help gratefully received. Alan Sutton www. <http://www.ownersinportugal.org/> ownersinportugal.org

I have been given information about my relative (5g grandmother) Ann Sutton who died in 1869 and was buried at Flaybrick cemetery in a Private Grave She was the first interment in the grave. the archive shows two more internments Hannah LILLEY aged 71 widow of William in Feb 1886 and Beatrice Pearce aged 15 months in June 1886 My question is, is this a usual thing and I am not aware that they are at all related. Can anyone advise? Alan Sutton www. <http://www.ownersinportugal.org/> ownersinportugal.org

Dear Charles Matthews, If you need a copy of the original let me know Source information: RG12/2889 Registration district: Birkenhead Sub registration district: Tranmere ED, institution, or vessel:10a Folio:94 Page:7 Poole, Frederick C 33 Chatham, Kent Head Tranmere Cheshire Poole, Anne 51 Birkenhead, Cheshire Wife Tranmere Cheshire Poole, Frederich J 9 Tranmere, Cheshire Son Tranmere Cheshire Poole, Annie G 7 Tranmere, Cheshire Daughter Tranmere Cheshire Poole, Charles 5 Tranmere, Cheshire Son Tranmere Cheshire Poole, Robert A 1 Tranmere, Cheshire Son Tranmere Cheshire Regards Colin Member of the Family History Society of Cheshire http://www.fhsc.org.uk/index.php Member of the Clwyd Family History Society http://www.clwydfhs.org.uk/ Member of the Guild of One Name Studies http://www.one-name.org/ [email protected] Gronow Worldwide [email protected] Macord England ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Matthews" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 3:40 PM Subject: [BKHD-Wirral] ANNIE POOLE 1891 census > I am looking for the 1891 census details for ANNIE POOLE living at 38 > Victoria Road Tranmere, IN 1891. > She would be 31 years old and may be given as Head of Household, possibly > with children, as her husband Frederick C Poole was a mariner. > Tks > Charles Matthews > FHSC 3977 WK Charles Matthews FHSC 3977WK, in Coventry, > researching > BIRD,Wirral > CHARLES, Durham > DO(U)LBEN, Denbigh&Wirral > HUGHES, Flint & Wirral > LARGE, Surrey, Durham > MATTHEWS, London, Essex, > PAYNTER, Liverpool & Birkenhead > STOKELL, Durham > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.805 / Virus Database: 547 - Release Date: 03/12/2004 > > > ==== BIRKENHEAD Mailing List ==== > Our list Web site with links useful for Wirral genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~liverpool/BIRKENHEAD-WIRRAL.html > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >

Alan Probably they were not related. On a trip round Bebington cemetery last year I found people who I'd never heard of in my ancestors graves. I assumed them to be paupers or people with no living relatives to pay for a burial. Other people found the same thing. John

I am looking for the 1891 census details for ANNIE POOLE living at 38 Victoria Road Tranmere, IN 1891. She would be 31 years old and may be given as Head of Household, possibly with children, as her husband Frederick C Poole was a mariner. Tks Charles Matthews FHSC 3977 WK Charles Matthews FHSC 3977WK, in Coventry, researching BIRD,Wirral CHARLES, Durham DO(U)LBEN, Denbigh&Wirral HUGHES, Flint & Wirral LARGE, Surrey, Durham MATTHEWS, London, Essex, PAYNTER, Liverpool & Birkenhead STOKELL, Durham --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.805 / Virus Database: 547 - Release Date: 03/12/2004

Apologies to anyone who used the "search" feature of my new pages last night or this morning. _http://www.old-liverpool.co.uk/_ (http://www.old-liverpool.co.uk/) I added the search engine to the site last night but forgot to index my whole site with it (doh and it was late!) so it would not have worked, but it is working now I couldn't have a decent search engine on my old pages because it didn't have a cgi bin, but the new one does. I used a free search engine at one time but it did not pick up all the relevant searches or spider the new pages properly so I removed it This should stop all the e-mails I have from people who were fed up with having to trawl through all the pages looking for names and wrote to me asking why I didn't have a search feature!...although personally I like to read through all of the newspaper snippets, gives a good picture of what life was like back then, but each to his own... Should be a lot easier for y'all now Anyone having problems with anything on the site please e-mail me off list I'm also adding more information about anything relating to Old Liverpool, so if anyone has anything they would like to submit to be used on the site, old photos, snippets, lists of individuals, crew lists, shipwrecks etc (nothing that is under copyright please) please contact me ta Caryl

Putting my admin hat on again to remind listers who are answering queries and doing look ups off list to please post them TO the list. Not doing so defeats the whole purpose of this list. There are many, including myself who would also like to know the answers to queries. Please SHARE Ta very much :-)) Caryl List admin

The records of The Mersey Docks and Harbour Board are at the Merseyside Maritime Museum. Their website is at: http://www.nmgm.org.uk/maritime/ David Railton -----Original Message----- From: dot rochard [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 02 December 2004 16:04 To: [email protected] Subject: [BKHD-Wirral] DOCKS Does anyone know if there are any records of employees with the Mersey Docks and Harbour Board. Also am I right in thinking that employee records for Cammell Laird have been destroyed? Thanks Dot ==== BIRKENHEAD Mailing List ==== Our list Web site with links useful for Wirral genealogy http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~liverpool/BIRKENHEAD-WIRRAL.html ============================== View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx

Does anyone know if there are any records of employees with the Mersey Docks and Harbour Board. Also am I right in thinking that employee records for Cammell Laird have been destroyed? Thanks Dot