Hello Charles Does the marriage perhaps feature on the Cheshire BMD site at :- http://cheshirebmd.org.uk/cheshirebmd/marriages.html ? If so, you should be able to get the name of the church (most likely St Mary's). Regards Gordon > I have a coy of the marriage certificate dated 1841 for wedding of > Great-grandfather& grandmother. > It is entry 71 dated 1st Feb. 1841 parish of Birkenhead county of Chester. > at the bottom it states "Married in the church of Birkenhead according to > etc, etc of church of England" > This looks fine at first sight I had not noticed in past Four years that the > name for the church is not given. > What can I conclude from this, was the church dedicated to a saint, and > whose name should I have expected to see on the certificate? > The rest of the family were married at St Catherine's in Tranmere from 1861 > onwards. > Can any one throw any light on this riddle? > > Charles Matthews > FHSC 3977WK > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 05/12/2004 > > > ==== BIRKENHEAD Mailing List ==== > Our list Web site with links useful for Wirral genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~liverpool/BIRKENHEAD-WIRRAL.html > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 >

I have a coy of the marriage certificate dated 1841 for wedding of Great-grandfather& grandmother. It is entry 71 dated 1st Feb. 1841 parish of Birkenhead county of Chester. at the bottom it states "Married in the church of Birkenhead according to etc, etc of church of England" This looks fine at first sight I had not noticed in past Four years that the name for the church is not given. What can I conclude from this, was the church dedicated to a saint, and whose name should I have expected to see on the certificate? The rest of the family were married at St Catherine's in Tranmere from 1861 onwards. Can any one throw any light on this riddle? Charles Matthews FHSC 3977WK --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 05/12/2004

I am out of the office until Tuesday 14 December 2004. If you have an urgent enquiry please contact Gwynneth Wilkey on ext 2705.

Hello Listers Apologies if you get this twice, computer problems! The actual distance between these two Churches is 1.8 miles or 2.8 km The distance between Birkenhead and West Kirby is 5.7 miles. Source parish Locator and local knowledge Hope this helps Wendy

I am out of the office until Tuesday 14 December 2004. If you have an urgent enquiry please contact Gwynneth Wilkey on ext 2705.

Can anyone give me the name of the owner/ proprietor of the Oxton Carriage Company - a funeral directors in 1940s Thanks Dot

I presume it was called the Church of Birkenhead because there was only one C of E Church in Birkenhead at the time. This was St. Mary's opened in 1738 and next to the 12th (?) century Birkenhead Priory. John

Doesn't give any name in Kelly's 1947 - just Oxton Carriage Co Limited - (The) Funeral Directors, Palm Grove Claughton, Birkenhead, & 2 Fairclough la Oxton Looked in both addreses, just the name of the company - looked at the back in "Professional and Trades" and also checked the Alphabetical - nothing but the company name in all Caryl In a message dated 12/8/2004 5:27:59 PM GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Can anyone give me the name of the owner/ proprietor of the Oxton Carriage Company - a funeral directors in 1940s Thanks Dot

Hi I am interested in William Sutton in 1871. Do you know what your relative Ellen was working as or what the business of William was? He is almost certainly "my" great grandfathers brother. Many thanks Alan Alan Sutton www.ownersinportugal.org -----Original Message----- From: Pat and Bill [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 08 December 2004 05:40 To: [email protected] Subject: [BKHD-Wirral] I have these answered now Thank You ( BUTLER/FULTON ) Hello List, Ellen FULTON is working for William SUTTON in 1871, Wallasey Road, Bidston. She married ( Alias ? Ellis ? Elias ? ) BUTLER Dec 25, 1876 St. Nicholas, Liverpool. Cheers for now, Pat and Bill [email protected] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat and Bill" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 7:26 PM Subject: [BKHD-Wirral] 1891 BUTLER also 1871 FULTON please Birkenhead ? > Hello List, > May I please ask for your help once again. 1891 census would SKS do a > search for this family please from 1881. I'm thinking this is my > Ellen ( nee Fulton born 1855 Birkenhead ). It says Flint, Wales here, > which I'm hoping is wrong. > On the IGI there is a marriage of Ellen Fulton and Elias Butter Dec > 25, > 1876 St. Nicholas, Liverpool. On the free BMD there is a Ellen Fulton > also a Eliza Butler Dec 1876 Liverpool 8 b 218. > On the Lancashire BMD site there is a Elias Fulton and Elias Buttler. > I'm thinking this is all the same couple. I'm hoping the 1891 census > will be of help in solving this puzzle. > Also in 1871 Ellen FULTON would be about 16 years of age born > Birkenhead 1855. She is not with her mother Margaret FULTON ( born > Hoylake 1821 ) who was living at 1 Club Row, Birkenhead RG 10/3746 > folio 110 page 42, which Louise kindly sent me a while back. > If you should have access to the 1871 census, could I please ask for a > search of Ellen FULTON born 1855, Birkenhead. at this time also. > Many Many Thanks > Pat Bakewell ( nee Fulton ) > Household: > > Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace > Occupation Disability > Alias BUTLER Head M Male 28 B Head, Cheshire, > England Carter > Ellen BUTLER Wife M Female 26 Flint, Wales > Sarah BUTLER Dau Female 8 B Head, Cheshire, England > Scholar > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Source Information: > Dwelling 1 Fox St > Census Place Birkenhead, Cheshire, England > Family History Library Film 1341856 > Public Records Office Reference RG11 > Piece / Folio 3578 / 16 > Page Number 25 > Pat and Bill > [email protected] ==== BIRKENHEAD Mailing List ==== Our list Web site with links useful for Wirral genealogy http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~liverpool/BIRKENHEAD-WIRRAL.html ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx

Hello Alan, William was age 52 a farmer of 199 acers born Bibston,Cheshire ,with three lab. Jane ( age 42) his wife I beleave is a sister to my Gt Gt Grandmother Margaret FULTON ( nee HARDMAN ) making ( Ellen) Margarets daughter a neice to William and Jane. Others in the family Elizabeth SUTTON 15, John 15, William 13, James 12, Maria 11,Ellen 4, Joseph 2, then Ellen FULTON 15, Samuel WOODFIN ( WOODSIN ? ) 35, Henry WILSON 35. RG10/3752 folio 113 page 7. Which I can send to you if you like. Cheers for now, Pat and Bill [email protected] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Sutton" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 4:54 AM Subject: RE: [BKHD-Wirral] I have these answered now Thank You ( BUTLER/FULTON ) WILLIAM SUTTON > Hi > > I am interested in William Sutton in 1871. Do you know what your relative > Ellen was working as or what the business of William was? He is almost > certainly "my" great grandfathers brother. > Many thanks > > Alan > Alan Sutton > www.ownersinportugal.org > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pat and Bill [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 08 December 2004 05:40 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [BKHD-Wirral] I have these answered now Thank You ( > BUTLER/FULTON ) > > > Hello List, > Ellen FULTON is working for William SUTTON in 1871, Wallasey Road, > Bidston. > > She married ( Alias ? Ellis ? Elias ? ) BUTLER Dec 25, 1876 St. Nicholas, > Liverpool. > Cheers for now, > Pat and Bill > [email protected] .> snip >

Hello List, Ellen FULTON is working for Willian SUTTON in 1871, Wallasey Road, Bibston. She married ( Alias ? Ellis ? Elias ? ) BUTLER Dec 25, 1876 St. Nicholas, Liverpool. Cheers for now, Pat and Bill [email protected] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat and Bill" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 7:26 PM Subject: [BKHD-Wirral] 1891 BUTLER also 1871 FULTON please Birkenhead ? > Hello List, > May I please ask for your help once again. 1891 census would SKS do a > search for this family please from 1881. I'm thinking this is my Ellen > ( nee Fulton born 1855 Birkenhead ). It says Flint, Wales here, which I'm > hoping is wrong. > On the IGI there is a marriage of Ellen Fulton and Elias Butter Dec 25, > 1876 St. Nicholas, Liverpool. On the free BMD there is a Ellen Fulton also > a Eliza Butler Dec 1876 Liverpool 8 b 218. > On the Lancashire BMD site there is a Elias Fulton and Elias Buttler. I'm > thinking this is all the same couple. I'm hoping the 1891 census will be > of help in solving this puzzle. > Also in 1871 Ellen FULTON would be about 16 years of age born Birkenhead > 1855. She is not with her mother Margaret FULTON ( born Hoylake 1821 ) > who was living at 1 Club Row, Birkenhead RG 10/3746 folio 110 page 42, > which Louise kindly sent me a while back. > If you should have access to the 1871 census, could I please ask for a > search of Ellen FULTON born 1855, Birkenhead. at this time also. > Many Many Thanks > Pat Bakewell ( nee Fulton ) > Household: > > Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation > Disability > Alias BUTLER Head M Male 28 B Head, Cheshire, > England Carter > Ellen BUTLER Wife M Female 26 Flint, Wales > Sarah BUTLER Dau Female 8 B Head, Cheshire, England > Scholar > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Source Information: > Dwelling 1 Fox St > Census Place Birkenhead, Cheshire, England > Family History Library Film 1341856 > Public Records Office Reference RG11 > Piece / Folio 3578 / 16 > Page Number 25 > Pat and Bill > [email protected]

Hello List, May I please ask for your help once again. 1891 census would SKS do a search for this family please from 1881. I'm thinking this is my Ellen ( nee Fulton born 1855 Birkenhead ). It says Flint, Wales here, which I'm hoping is wrong. On the IGI there is a marriage of Ellen Fulton and Elias Butter Dec 25, 1876 St. Nicholas, Liverpool. On the free BMD there is a Ellen Fulton also a Eliza Butler Dec 1876 Liverpool 8 b 218. On the Lancashire BMD site there is a Elias Fulton and Elias Buttler. I'm thinking this is all the same couple. I'm hoping the 1891 census will be of help in solving this puzzle. Also in 1871 Ellen FULTON would be about 16 years of age born Birkenhead 1855. She is not with her mother Margaret FULTON ( born Hoylake 1821 ) who was living at 1 Club Row, Birkenhead RG 10/3746 folio 110 page 42, which Louise kindly sent me a while back. If you should have access to the 1871 census, could I please ask for a search of Ellen FULTON born 1855, Birkenhead. at this time also. Many Many Thanks Pat Bakewell ( nee Fulton ) Household: Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability Alias BUTLER Head M Male 28 B Head, Cheshire, England Carter Ellen BUTLER Wife M Female 26 Flint, Wales Sarah BUTLER Dau Female 8 B Head, Cheshire, England Scholar -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Source Information: Dwelling 1 Fox St Census Place Birkenhead, Cheshire, England Family History Library Film 1341856 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 3578 / 16 Page Number 25 Pat and Bill [email protected]

Dear Alan, Do you mean St Mary's in Birkenhead as it is St Oswald Church in Bidston. Bidston is a little village and only has one church. Bidston is also a ancient parish covering a few hamlets and villages like Moreton, Claughton, Saughall Massie and Bidston -cum-ford. BIDSTON Bidston, St. Oswald (C of E). An ancient parish, originally comprising the townships of Bidston cum Ford, Birkenhead, Claughton with Grange (part), Moreton (near Wallasey) and Saughall Massie. Registers of baptisms 1682-1986 marriages 1682-1980 and burials 1679-1958 are at the CRO. Bishop's Transcripts survive from 1581. Registers 1581-1700 have been published in W. F. Irvine (ed.), The Baptismal, Marriage and Burial Registers of the Parish of Bidston, in the County of Chester (1893). Monumental inscriptions have been published by the FHS of Cheshire (1989). St Mary's was the parish church of Birkenhead, which was:- A township and chapelry in Bidston Parish, Wirral Hundred (SJ 3289). In 1898 the civil parish was extended to include Claughton cum Grange, Oxton, Rock Ferry and Tranmere. In 1928 part of Bidston cum Ford was added to Birkenhead and in 1933 Birkenhead was extended to include Landican, Noctorum, Prenton, Thingwall and Woodchurch, and parts of Arrowe, Bidston cum Ford and Upton by Birkenhead. In 1974 Birkenhead was transferred to the county of Merseyside. Birkenhead was a county borough from 1889 to 1974. Includes the hamlets of Egerton Park, Grange and Woodside. The population was 110 in 1801, 24285 in 1851, 110912 in 1901 and 142501 in 1951. St Mary's Churchyard was converted to a dock sometime (can't remember the date) and the gravestones where moved to the back of Landican Cemetery, and laid flat. Last time i saw them they were covered in grass, and many are illegible being so old. These stones have not been recorded as far as i know but some of the stones remaining at St Mary's have been recorded and i checked these and your Edward Sutton is not on the list for the ones remaining at the Church. However his headstone, if any, may well be one of the ones at Landican but i have not seen a list of any MI's done for that very old section. He is not on the St Oswald, Bidston MI's but i will check the other Sutton's as promised for you as there are other Sutton's there. if you would like some pictures of St Mary's or St Oswald please let me know and i will send them Kind Regards Wendy .............(`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´).............. «´¨`·.¤º°`°º¤ø°º¤ø¤º°*ø¤º°`°º¤.·´¨`» .............(¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸).............. -------Original Message------- ==== CHESHIRE Mailing List ==== Cheshire Surnames Interest Directory: http://www.fhsc.org.uk/surnames/

Alan St. Oswald's, Bidston and St. Mary's Birkenhead are about 7 miles apart. St. Mary's is now derelict but St. Oswalds is very much alive and engulfed by a very large housing estate. The following website may be of some interest to you, re graves. http://www.stoswaldsbidston.com/ John

Thanks to all who helped with this. I now know that Edward Sutton was buried in St Mary's Bidston. Are there likely to be any memorials here or anyone with MI´s? I know the church closed in the 1970´s Thanks to all Alan Alan Sutton www. <http://www.ownersinportugal.org/> ownersinportugal.org _____ From: Alan Sutton [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 04 December 2004 00:09 To: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: St Oswald and St Mary Birkenhead This is a request for anyone who may have the Parish registers for a burial in one of these churches (? possibly) I am trying to find the burial of my 5g grandfather EDWARD SUTTON who died 21st October 1858 at Dock Cottages Birkenhead. This was before the Flaybrick cemetery opened and although his wife is in Flaybrick I think this where he is likely to be? Or is it likely he would be buried in his "home town" of Newton le Willows? He was not wealthy. Any help gratefully received. Alan Sutton www. <http://www.ownersinportugal.org/> ownersinportugal.org

Hi Alan MI's for Bidston St Oswald are from 1581- 1700 St Mary's are from 1719 -1812 so these won't help you Regards Sylvia

I have changed over to Rootsmagic from The mAster Geneaologist and am more than happy with it - much easier to use and a good program - excellent value in my view. My files transferred via gedcom without a problem, once I had worked out how to do it of course! The one program I would not recommend to anyone, though, is Custodian 3 - the database for gathering together all those possible links found in census or parish registers etc. It is a very complicated and tedious in the extreme, Hope this helps Cath

Hi Listers, Here are my Birkenhead interests: GRIFFITH-JONES family of Aspendale Road, Tranmere. they married into Ellershaw, Taylor, McCann, Wheadon, and Bowen. Quiet a few named Margaret. LEA, also from Tranmere, Derby St off Oxton Road, Clarendon St and Briardale Road off Borough Road. The LEA family came from Harthill , Farndon and around that area prior to 1850's after which they slowly drifted to Tranmere Oxton and Birkenhead, ending up for some of them in Leasowe. I can't find the death of Thomas LEA, born 1834 in Harthill, son of William and Catherine LEA. Thomas died about 1880-1883 but where? Other names linked to both of these families are SYER RICHARDS , Francis William Hazelhurst (bn 1836 Middlesex) BURGESS, Sarah Ann, bn 1842 Norwich, Norfolk KINCH, from Long Buckby Northampton BARKER I have limited info on some of the related names. Would like to hear from anyone who may think they are connected Thanks Wendy

Hi All, Does anybody have any experience with this programme? I got a catalogue from S & N and I am very interested in this one, there is a UK version which says it contains: A searchable index to millions of people in the Census (which census??) and other major S & N Genealogy resources (such as??). and Bartholomew's UK Atlas 1898, a complete series of topographical maps, charts, town plans and index of 35,000 place names in England and Wales. This atlas also contains street maps showing places no longer in existence through development or bombing in WWII (I am VERY interested in this atlas!!) plus £250 worth of Vouchers off the British Data Archive Census CD Sets. It seems to sell for £34.95 - has anybody had any experience with this one? I don't want to buy it if it just another one of those programmes with links to sites where you have to spend money to view what they are offering, like dangling the carrot in front of the donkey...........like some other programmes I could mention.............. Hee haw........ Barbara in Sydney via Liverpool

Thanks to those who suggested Legacy. I have just downloaded the freebie, and it looks as if it might be pretty user-friendly. Here goes! Anne