Hi Janet - Can you contact me as I am researching mariners and surgeons as well. Namely Dr. James Carson of Liverpol and my great great grandfather, a mariner to Newfoundland here in Canada. Where are you (in England I hope). I just thought you might be able to help me. It is worth a chance. Anyways thanks - Sharon in New Brunswick/Canada

I'm sorry to labour the point, but I do think its worth sharing the information we find to enlighten. I wondered if my man could have been a Master Mariner/Surgeon. http://www.virgin.net/internetaccess/24seven/ Listed in Baines 1824 Directory of Liverpool :- Rev Cleland KIRKPATRICK, Wesleyan Minister, 108 St James Street Kitty KIRKPATRICK, gentlewoman, 51 Seymour Street David KIRKPATRICK, surgeon, 130 Park Lane Thomas KIRKPATRICK, floorcloth manufacturer, 13 Queen Street His daughter's marriage after his death: Full marriage record listing - on 19 Feb 2006 at 19:41:49 GMT Field Name Field Value KEYCODEWKIRM01200540.10048 PADVERwkirM0540.1 PARISH_CODEWKIR TAGGED0 DATED18580615 GROOM_FNAMEALEXANDER GROOM_SNAMESHERRATT GROOM_STATUSBA GROOM_OCCUPATIONFARMER GROOM_RESIDWEST HYDE HEREFORDSHIRE GROOM_AGEFU GROOM_SIGNS BRIDE_FNAMEELIZABETH JOHNSON BRIDE_SNAMEKIRKPATRICK BRIDE_STATUSSP BRIDE_RESIDCALD BRIDE_AGEFU BRIDE_SIGNS W_FNAME_1ADAM W_SNAME_1JOHNSON W_FNAME_2CHARLES W_SNAME_2BIRRS W_FNAME_3ELIZABETH W_SNAME_3BARTON W_FNAME_4ISABELLA SELLERS W_SNAME_4KIRKPATRICK W_FNAME_5ELLEN W_SNAME_5REALEY W_FNAME_6THOS W_SNAME_6REALEY C_FNAMEJ C_SNAMESLADE G_F_FNAMEGEORGE G_F_OCCUPATIONFARMER B_F_FNAMEDAVID B_F_OCCUPATIONSURGEON ADDITIONAL_INFORMATION G OCKE PRITCHARD NEAR WEST HYDE Full burial record listing - on 19 Feb 2006 at 19:43:20 GMT Field Name Field Value KEYCODEWKIRB01500907.10061 PADVERwkirB0907.1 PARISH_CODEWKIR TAGGED0 DATED18370214 FORENAMEDAVID SURNAMEKIRKPATRICK SEXM RESIDENCEWKIR AGE5400 I dont accept the first record that throws itself at me, so could you perhaps suggest where else I might look. As I mentioned, I purchased his Marriage Licence for a fee. Regards Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: "judy olsen" <copywriter@tesco.net> > Solvay is way too late for your man., whom I think you said died in > 1837? > > I am sure you have dotted all the is and crossed the Ts but I find > the change from Master Mariner to surgeon a bit worrying. If he had > been a ship's surgeon then records would probably say that. > > Job changes from professional/apprenticed to non professional, such > as shopkeeper or innkeeper are easier to accept. Job changes from > unskilled to skilled are just about tenable but crossing from one > profession to another seems the least likely. > > > Judy

Thank you for your interest. I have his Marriage Licence - paid for it - stating Master Mariner. I have his death record in the Cheshire Parish records, and also a note as to his whereabouts at 130 Park Lane as a Surgeon between the years 1824 and 1832. I have looked for him in ship's but its like looking for a needle in a haystack. Any ideas? Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: "judy olsen" <copywriter@tesco.net> > Solvay is way too late for your man., whom I think you said died in > 1837? > > I am sure you have dotted all the is and crossed the Ts but I find > the change from Master Mariner to surgeon a bit worrying. If he had > been a ship's surgeon then records would probably say that. > > Job changes from professional/apprenticed to non professional, such > as shopkeeper or innkeeper are easier to accept. Job changes from > unskilled to skilled are just about tenable but crossing from one > profession to another seems the least likely.

Getting a bit off-topic, I feel! But finally.......... Strictly speaking Soda Ash is the anhydrous form of Sod Carbonate. Washing Soda could, I suppose, help with warts, but in former pre-HSE times Silver nitrate was preferred. That is if you didn't believe in the old wife's tale of rubbing the wart with a bit of steak and then burying it in the garden (the steak, that is!) Time to go. Dave Janet <wightway@tiscali.co.uk> wrote: I am since reliably informed that sodium carbonate - Na2CO31OH2O - is a white crystalline that forms an alkaline solution in water solid which is used in glass making and is commonly known as washing soda. Dangerous to eyes, and if ingested. I seem to remember I might have recommended it for warts n all! Does anyone have any other thoughts on its effect? d;^) --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo.

Solvay is way too late for your man., whom I think you said died in 1837? I am sure you have dotted all the is and crossed the Ts but I find the change from Master Mariner to surgeon a bit worrying. If he had been a ship's surgeon then records would probably say that. Job changes from professional/apprenticed to non professional, such as shopkeeper or innkeeper are easier to accept. Job changes from unskilled to skilled are just about tenable but crossing from one profession to another seems the least likely. Judy On 19 Feb 2006, at 17:26, Janet wrote: > I have been watching this thread with some interest and curiosity. > On the Liverpool list it was suggested, privately, that one of my > elusive folk might have been engaged in Whitehaven. He was a > Master Mariner at the time of his marriage in 1818 - I may have > already mentioned - and a Surgeon at his death in Liverpool. I am > wondering, whether Sodium Carbonate would create any hazard, > requiring a medical practitioner. Just thinking aloud really. > > Janet > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "A BARRATT" <tony.barratt@btopenworld.com> > >>> I'm not sure of the dates when it started, but there would have >>> been >>> considerable traffic from Whitehaven to the Mersey, specifically >>> Runcorn / >>> Widnes, from the Soda Ash plant at Whitehaven( which could have >>> used the >>> Solvay process as recently mentioned) Latterly this was owned by >>> Albright >>> and Wilson. Soda ash (chemically Sodium Carbonate) is an important >>> chemical for a number of processes and products (detergents etc) >>> so would >>> have been shipped in considerable quantities. >>> >>> Dave > > > >> There were also shipping links The Brocklebanks of Whitehaven >> evetually >> settled in Liverpool. They were active in shipping for almost 200 >> years. >> Numerous Liverpool vessels were built on the Cumbria coast >> >> Regards >> Tony >> >> >> >> ---- Original Message ----- >> From: "Dave Greenly" <adg532@yahoo.co.uk> >> >>> Robert Tennant <birkenheadtram@tiscali.co.uk> wrote: >>> <Whitehaven is >>> about 150 miles, as the crow flies, North of Liverpool. I >>> think it is also the place that the Pilgrim Fathers left England. >>> Somebody >>> will correct me if I am wrong. Reading lister's notes, there does >>> seem to >>> be >>> a strong connection between people at these to coastal towns, if no >>> apparent >>> trade link> >>> > > > ==== BIRKENHEAD Mailing List ==== > Our list Web site with links useful for Wirral genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~liverpool/BIRKENHEAD- > WIRRAL.html > > ============================== > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > New content added every business day. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx >

I am since reliably informed that sodium carbonate - Na2CO31OH2O - is a white crystalline that forms an alkaline solution in water solid which is used in glass making and is commonly known as washing soda. Dangerous to eyes, and if ingested. I seem to remember I might have recommended it for warts n all! Does anyone have any other thoughts on its effect? d;^) <other than causing one to be confused as to which list to send it to ROFL.> Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janet" <wightway@tiscali.co.uk> I have been watching this thread with some interest and curiosity. On the Liverpool list it was suggested, privately, that one of my elusive folk might have been engaged in Whitehaven. He was a Master Mariner at the time of his marriage in 1818 - I may have already mentioned - and a Surgeon at his death in Liverpool. I am wondering, whether Sodium Carbonate would create any hazard, requiring a medical practitioner. Just thinking aloud really. Janet

I have been watching this thread with some interest and curiosity. On the Liverpool list it was suggested, privately, that one of my elusive folk might have been engaged in Whitehaven. He was a Master Mariner at the time of his marriage in 1818 - I may have already mentioned - and a Surgeon at his death in Liverpool. I am wondering, whether Sodium Carbonate would create any hazard, requiring a medical practitioner. Just thinking aloud really. Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: "A BARRATT" <tony.barratt@btopenworld.com> >> I'm not sure of the dates when it started, but there would have been >> considerable traffic from Whitehaven to the Mersey, specifically Runcorn / >> Widnes, from the Soda Ash plant at Whitehaven( which could have used the >> Solvay process as recently mentioned) Latterly this was owned by Albright >> and Wilson. Soda ash (chemically Sodium Carbonate) is an important >> chemical for a number of processes and products (detergents etc) so would >> have been shipped in considerable quantities. >> >> Dave > There were also shipping links The Brocklebanks of Whitehaven evetually > settled in Liverpool. They were active in shipping for almost 200 years. > Numerous Liverpool vessels were built on the Cumbria coast > > Regards > Tony > > > > ---- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Greenly" <adg532@yahoo.co.uk> > >> Robert Tennant <birkenheadtram@tiscali.co.uk> wrote: <Whitehaven is >> about 150 miles, as the crow flies, North of Liverpool. I >> think it is also the place that the Pilgrim Fathers left England. Somebody >> will correct me if I am wrong. Reading lister's notes, there does seem to >> be >> a strong connection between people at these to coastal towns, if no >> apparent >> trade link> >>

There were also shipping links The Brocklebanks of Whitehaven evetually settled in Liverpool. They were active in shipping for almost 200 years. Numerous Liverpool vessels were built on the Cumbria coast Regards Tony ---- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Greenly" <adg532@yahoo.co.uk> To: <BIRKENHEAD-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 11:54 PM Subject: Re: [BKHD-Wirral] Whitehaven, England - near Liverpool? Canadian needs help! > Robert Tennant <birkenheadtram@tiscali.co.uk> wrote: <Whitehaven is > about 150 miles, as the crow flies, North of Liverpool. I > think it is also the place that the Pilgrim Fathers left England. Somebody > will correct me if I am wrong. Reading lister's notes, there does seem to > be > a strong connection between people at these to coastal towns, if no > apparent > trade link> > > I'm not sure of the dates when it started, but there would have been > considerable traffic from Whitehaven to the Mersey, specifically Runcorn / > Widnes, from the Soda Ash plant at Whitehaven( which could have used the > Solvay process as recently mentioned) Latterly this was owned by Albright > and Wilson. Soda ash (chemically Sodium Carbonate) is an important > chemical for a number of processes and products (detergents etc) so would > have been shipped in considerable quantities. > > Dave > > > > > > - ------------------------------- > Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with > voicemail >

Robert Tennant <birkenheadtram@tiscali.co.uk> wrote: <Whitehaven is about 150 miles, as the crow flies, North of Liverpool. I think it is also the place that the Pilgrim Fathers left England. Somebody will correct me if I am wrong. Reading lister's notes, there does seem to be a strong connection between people at these to coastal towns, if no apparent trade link> I'm not sure of the dates when it started, but there would have been considerable traffic from Whitehaven to the Mersey, specifically Runcorn / Widnes, from the Soda Ash plant at Whitehaven( which could have used the Solvay process as recently mentioned) Latterly this was owned by Albright and Wilson. Soda ash (chemically Sodium Carbonate) is an important chemical for a number of processes and products (detergents etc) so would have been shipped in considerable quantities. Dave --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail

Hi Listers Not sure if this is the OK place for this enquiry,however I live in Australia and am looking for information regarding descendents of relatives that left Ireland for the Merseyside Birkenhead area around the 1840`s. One of the daughters of this family Julia Pinkston, married in a George flower in1873 and they appear in the 1881 census living in Lancashire. Some of the descendents are still in the Merseyside/ Birkenhead area and would appreciate any information regarding the following their descendents:- George William Cottham born 1906 and Elizabeth Elder and their descendents Catherine Cottham and Peter M Cottham. Regards Bill Rowlands

Thanks to Robert for his prompt reply helping me locate Whitehaven. So I guess it is possible that my George ca 1815 Liverpool Town is from anywhere within reasonable distance. I will now put a query on the Newfoundland site and hope I get some help from the other family involved with the Carson clan! Sharon Reid/Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Tennant" <birkenheadtram@tiscali.co.uk> To: <BIRKENHEAD-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 5:07 AM Subject: Re: [BKHD-Wirral] Whitehaven, England - near Liverpool? Canadian needs help! > Whitehaven is about 150 miles, as the crow flies, North of Liverpool. I > think it is also the place that the Pilgrim Fathers left England. Somebody > will correct me if I am wrong. Reading lister's notes, there does seem to > be a strong connection between people at these to coastal towns, if no > apparent trade link. > Five miles south, outside of Whitehaven is Egremont and here on Wirral, > opposite Liverpool we have a community once a village call Egremont but > now just an area within Wallasey. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sharon Ann Reid" <booreid@nb.sympatico.ca> > To: <BIRKENHEAD-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 12:07 AM > Subject: [BKHD-Wirral] Whitehaven, England - near Liverpool? Canadian > needs help! > > >> Greetings everyone. I was wondering if anyone could tell me if >> Whitehaven is near Liverpool. Just a tidbit (as we say in Canada meaning >> a small amount) on a Carson connection to Newfoundland! I am still >> looking for some info on Dr. James Carson who practised in Liverpool in >> 1832 (Ranelagh Place) and also George, who I think became a sea captain. >> He married in 1846 in Nfld (Newfoundland) but ca 1815 and registered on >> church record as being of Liverpool Town. Also James was born in >> Kircudbrightshire, Scotland and had a son Patrick McNeight Carson. Is >> George the son of James? Anyways any help you can give me most >> appreciated! Sincerely Sharon Reid/Canada >> >> >> ==== BIRKENHEAD Mailing List ==== >> Our list Web site with links useful for Wirral genealogy >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~liverpool/BIRKENHEAD-WIRRAL.html >> >> ============================== >> Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >> last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >> > > > ==== BIRKENHEAD Mailing List ==== > Our list Web site with links useful for Wirral genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~liverpool/BIRKENHEAD-WIRRAL.html > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx >

Whitehaven is about 150 miles, as the crow flies, North of Liverpool. I think it is also the place that the Pilgrim Fathers left England. Somebody will correct me if I am wrong. Reading lister's notes, there does seem to be a strong connection between people at these to coastal towns, if no apparent trade link. Five miles south, outside of Whitehaven is Egremont and here on Wirral, opposite Liverpool we have a community once a village call Egremont but now just an area within Wallasey. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharon Ann Reid" <booreid@nb.sympatico.ca> To: <BIRKENHEAD-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 12:07 AM Subject: [BKHD-Wirral] Whitehaven, England - near Liverpool? Canadian needs help! > Greetings everyone. I was wondering if anyone could tell me if Whitehaven > is near Liverpool. Just a tidbit (as we say in Canada meaning a small > amount) on a Carson connection to Newfoundland! I am still looking for > some info on Dr. James Carson who practised in Liverpool in 1832 (Ranelagh > Place) and also George, who I think became a sea captain. He married in > 1846 in Nfld (Newfoundland) but ca 1815 and registered on church record as > being of Liverpool Town. Also James was born in Kircudbrightshire, > Scotland and had a son Patrick McNeight Carson. Is George the son of > James? Anyways any help you can give me most appreciated! Sincerely > Sharon Reid/Canada > > > ==== BIRKENHEAD Mailing List ==== > Our list Web site with links useful for Wirral genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~liverpool/BIRKENHEAD-WIRRAL.html > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >

In the 19th C there were regular passenger and cargo shipping services up the west coast of the UK to ports such as Annan and Campbeltown and I am sure Whitehaven. Wasnt Whitehaven attacked by the Americans under John Paul Jones? Like Campbeltown it was an important sea port whose significance is often overlooked as these days we tend to see distances/remoteness/importance in terms of our road and rail network. Judy ---------- >From: "Sharon Ann Reid" <booreid@nb.sympatico.ca> >To: BIRKENHEAD-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [BKHD-Wirral] Re:Thanks to Robert Tennant >Date: 18, Sat Feb, 2006, 2:54 pm > > there does seem to >> be a strong connection between people at these to coastal towns, if no >> apparent trade link.

Dear Colin, As I write I have hardly overcome the suprise contained in your email. Family lore has it that John made some money, which is nolonger apparant, but your analysis suggests that this former boot riveter from Whitechapel did really rather well for himself. For a number of years he ran an outfit called 'The Ceylon Cafe Company', which operated Tea Houses in and around Liverpool and Leeds, however this entered voluntary liquidation in 1909. I hope to uncover more about the company. Sadly he died in the house about 6-9 months after moving in. Many,many Thanks for your help All Best Wishes Andrew

Greetings everyone. I was wondering if anyone could tell me if Whitehaven is near Liverpool. Just a tidbit (as we say in Canada meaning a small amount) on a Carson connection to Newfoundland! I am still looking for some info on Dr. James Carson who practised in Liverpool in 1832 (Ranelagh Place) and also George, who I think became a sea captain. He married in 1846 in Nfld (Newfoundland) but ca 1815 and registered on church record as being of Liverpool Town. Also James was born in Kircudbrightshire, Scotland and had a son Patrick McNeight Carson. Is George the son of James? Anyways any help you can give me most appreciated! Sincerely Sharon Reid/Canada

Hi List I am searching for details of my grandmother Helen Marie Weston. As I don't have her dob or her parents names I've not had any luck. I believe (according to my father's birth certificate Helen was 31 years old in 1916 i.e. born 1885, and that she was born in Birkenhead) Her death certificate however puts her dob as 1873!!!! My uncle said she had a brother named Frank, he also said she came from the Brighton/Worthing area. Is anyone researching these Weston's? Helen sailed to South Australia in 1912 on the SS Afric with Joseph Leon Travers. A brick wall of five or more years. Any help appreciated. I have checked every census and a good deal of the birth indexes. The only hope I can see is if I find descendants of her brother Regards Margaret South Coast South Australia TIA

In a message dated 17/02/2006 17:53:40 GMT Standard Time, gronow@gronowmacord.fslife.co.uk writes: Firstly "Fir Grove" sadly no longer exists, the very large house in extensive grounds has made way for 'modern' houses. Indeed the area occupied by the property was so extensive that three new roads were built across it. If you look on a modern map or on multimap etc. look for St. Albans Road, St.David's Road & St Ives Road , join the three roads together and it will give you a rough guide to the area of "Fir Grove" . I have it clearly marked on a map of 1909. In a directory of 1916 it is described as thus: 74, Park Road West "Fir Grove", Robert Thomson, Shipowner & William Stewart Balfour. The next property along was St.Bede's Church, which was damaged in the 1941 Blitz. ~~~~~~~~~~~ Thank you for this information Colin! I was brought up not far away from this area, and as a child I went to 'Sunday School' at 'St. Bede's Church', still located in Claughton Village. .... Went to 'All Saints Church', Shrewsbury Road. This was of course, the Mother Church to St. Bede's. .... I did not know of the previous St. Bede's Church, due to only being born in 1945. We learn something new every day and I still live not far from that location, (Greasby) and pass by frequently, when on my way down town. I shall view the area in a different light from now on! Sincerely, Vivien Blythe ~~~~~~~~~

Dear Andrew, Firstly "Fir Grove" sadly no longer exists, the very large house in extensive grounds has made way for 'modern' houses. Indeed the area occupied by the property was so extensive that three new roads were built across it. If you look on a modern map or on multimap etc. look for St. Albans Road, St.David's Road & St Ives Road , join the three roads together and it will give you a rough guide to the area of "Fir Grove" . I have it clearly marked on a map of 1909. In a directory of 1916 it is described as thus: 74, Park Road West "Fir Grove", Robert Thomson, Shipowner & William Stewart Balfour. The next property along was St.Bede's Church, which was damaged in the 1941 Blitz. Hope this helps you. I drove home along the road tonight, and right opposite what would have been "Fir Grove" you guessed it two enormous Pine Fir Trees :-) Regards Colin. Member of the Family History Society of Cheshire http://www.fhsc.org.uk/index.php Member of the Clwyd Family History Society http://www.clwydfhs.org.uk/ Member of the Guild of One Name Studies http://www.one-name.org/ gronow@one-name.org Gronow Worldwide macord@one-name.org Macord England ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Abrahams" <andrewabrahams@usa.net> To: <BIRKENHEAD-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 9:51 PM Subject: [BKHD-Wirral] Abrahams' in Claughton > Hi to all, > > My gt-grandfather John Abrahams moved the family from Liverpool to > 'Fir Grove', Park Road West, Claughton in early 1918, or thereabouts. > Park Road West is easy enough to find but I can't identify ' Fir Grove'. > I had hoped to visit last year but had to cancel the trip. > > Would anybody know whether this house is still known by this name and > naturally where it is, or have an idea as to directories that may contain a > modern reference. Failing this an old directory that might help to identify > it. > > Many Thanks > > Andrew > > > > > > > > > > ==== BIRKENHEAD Mailing List ==== > Our list Web site with links useful for Wirral genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~liverpool/BIRKENHEAD-WIRRAL.html > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > >

In the 1915/16 Birkenhead Directory No 74 Park Rd West is shown as being occupied by three tenants/owners. Robert Thomson, Wm Stewart Balfour (ship-owner) (Fir Grove)and by Parish Church of St Bede. Dont know the present situation but a lot of large houses in the area have been demolished and dozens of new houses built on the plot. The church may have survived, however. HTH Dave Andrew Abrahams <andrewabrahams@usa.net> wrote: Hi to all, My gt-grandfather John Abrahams moved the family from Liverpool to 'Fir Grove', Park Road West, Claughton in early 1918, or thereabouts. Park Road West is easy enough to find but I can't identify ' Fir Grove'. I had hoped to visit last year but had to cancel the trip. Would anybody know whether this house is still known by this name and naturally where it is, or have an idea as to directories that may contain a modern reference. Failing this an old directory that might help to identify it. Many Thanks Andrew ==== BIRKENHEAD Mailing List ==== Our list Web site with links useful for Wirral genealogy http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~liverpool/BIRKENHEAD-WIRRAL.html ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx Dave Greenly adg532@yahoo.co.uk (Please note my new address) --------------------------------- To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre.

Thanks for the replies I'll pass them on Caryl