There is a copy of this book in the Research Centre Library if anyone is interested in browsing for themselves. The library is upstairs in the Centre at Yeomanry House, Castle Hill, Reading. It can be found on the shelves with other Church histories of the County. Our opening hours can be found on the web-site. Jean Herbert (librarian) -------------------------------------------------- From: "Christine Read" <readchr13_99@yahoo.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 4:18 PM To: <berkshire@rootsweb.com> Subject: [BRK] Hopefully of interest - Many Names! > Hallo everyone, > I am hoping this will be of interest/helpful to some of you to maybe take > your research back a little further! > > I have a book published in 1883 by Rev. Charles Kerry which is about the > St. Lawrence Church, Reading and includes its history and many names and > details from its records since the 1400s. > > One section has some early Wills transcribed and one in particular that I > saw today and dated 1493 has so many names as well as relatives of the > Testator it strikes me as being a treasure for someone!! > > As the names here are from the 1400s they will probably not show in any > parish registers however early they go back, but some of you might just be > able to link these together with other Wills, to your own ancestors so I > am adding them here in the hope it will help. (For me sadly, none of these > names are connected to my own ancestors, but I found it interesting all > the same). This is just an abstract of the names - please contact me off > list if these could be connected to your research so that I can let you > know the bequests and/or details of the book if it is possible to still > get it. > > The Will of Henry KELSALL, of Redyng, clothyer 1493 > > “ … hole and sounde the mynde, not being syke the body, and in my last > days not knowing seke …” > > He mentions and bequeaths to various churches “ Saint Lawrence”, “Sainte > Marys” and “Saynt Gylys chirch” in Reading. Also bequeaths to the church > at Knottesford, Cheshire > > He has property in Reading, Southampton and the “Ile of Wyght”. > > Thomas KELSALL my brother > Roger KELSALL my brother (possibly dead before 1493) > Charlys KELSALL son of my brother Roger KELSALL > Elizabeth KELSALL daughter of my brother Roger KELSALL > Thomas KELSALL son of my brother Roger KELSALL (These three children are > probably not of age - 21 or 25 as at 1493 “age xxiiij” ) > Agnes my wife > Margarett BOSDEN my sister > Mawde BOSDEN her daughter > Margarett BOSDEN sister of the saide Mawde > Jonett SWYNTON my sister > Roger SWYNTON her son > Any son and any daughter of my brother Thomas KELSALL > … to every of my Cosynnes, sonnys and doughters lawfully bigotten, between > Thomas MADOK of Knottesford (Cheshire) and Elizabeth my sister nowe being > alive … > Henry WOODHATCH my godson > John SAUNDER my servant > Johne BROKE my servant > Bequeaths to the marriage of Elizabeth CRANTMORE > Bequeaths to the daughter of William SWYNTON > Bequeaths to Margery PASTLEWE > Bequeaths to Joan ASSHENDON > Bequeaths to Henry SADELER > Bequeaths to the wife of John LECKE, hatmaker > The following ten names are “maynteners and susteyners of thaier devocion > of the Masse of Ihu …” > Richard CLECHE, draper > John BAXTSTER, tanner > John LANGHAM, iremonger > Stephen DUNSTER, draper > Rauff MYLLINGTON, clothyer > William TRU, yoman > John WYLCOKKS, chaundler and ffisshemonger > William SCOCHON, draper > Richard SMYTH, gent > John TWYTT > He mentions also Thomas GRENEWEY my suant (I wonder if this is servant)? > He makes Rauff WHYTE of Wokynham joint executor with his brother Thomas > KELSALL > Witnesses: Rauff HETHCOTE; Richard CLECHE; Rauff MYLLINGTON; William TRUE. > > He bequeaths to the “making of the Gyldhall in Reding when the said hall > shall be new bilded” > He makes bequests to many churches in Berkshire and Oxfordshire > He makes several bequests to the “mending of the way between Reding and > Pangborne …” (and many other mending of the ways between …) > He leaves bequests for a set number of “maydens” and a set number of “pore > men”. > > The Will was Proved at Lambeth sometime between January and February > 1493-4. > 　 > Well, I really hope there are some gems there for some of you and I would > love to hear from anyone that this has hopefully helped. I think Henry > KELSALL was a generous man and obviously made a lot of money in his time. > I love it that various roads leading from Reading to other places that my > ancestors would have travelled over were partly made because of his > bequests and I love it that he contributed to the Guildhall at Reading, > (is it still there?) and must have known it was going to be built as he > provided for it before it was “new bilded”. > > I’m happy to pass on more details from this Will to anyone so interested > in it. > > Kind regards, > > Christine Read > Cornwall, UK > So That’s Where I Get It From > www.rootsresearcher.wordpress.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BERKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 00:22:30 +0100, Jeff Coleman <Jeff.Coleman@ntlworld.com> wrote: > Josephine > Speen is nowadays a suburb of Newbury. Hi Jeff, Thanks for your response. I've just had a look at my modern road atlas and can see Speen marked on the outskirts of Newbury. > Have a look at Berks RO and Berks FHS to see what registers are > available where and how. According to The Philimore Atlas and Index of Parish Registers, the original deposited registers for Speen 1629 to 1972 are in Berkshire Record Office. Looking at the Berkshire Family History Society web site, I see that there is a BFHS CD on Parish Registers Speenhamland, but the marriages start at 1847 and the baptisms start at 1831. I think my 2x great-grandfather Henry Pearce Morris, son of Thomas and Harriet, would have been baptized between 1828 and 1830, though of course he could have been baptized later. > In Thatcham, another suburb of Newbury nowadays, is Henwick Lane. I have > no idea of its origins - probably a few centuries old- but it could be a > local placename which might turn up as a surname. Try Henwick as a > surname variant. Thanks for that. I've been looking on FreeBMD to see if I can make any headway with Henwick as a surname in Berkshire, but have drawn a blank. So, the bride's surname of Hennick in the possible 1827 marriage of my 3x great-grandfather Thomas Pearce Morris at Speen is a mystery. Josephine -- Josephine Jeremiah www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com

Josephine Speen is nowadays a suburb of Newbury. Have a look at Berks RO and Berks FHS to see what registers are available where and how. In Thatcham, another suburb of Newbury nowadays, is Henwick Lane. I have no idea of its origins - probably a few centuries old- but it could be a local placename which might turn up as a surname. Try Henwick as a surname variant. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josephine Jeremiah" <jojeremiah@dsl.pipex.com> To: <BERKSHIRE@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 10:43 AM Subject: [BRK] MORRIS, marriage, Speen, Berkshire, 1827 > Hello all, > > A while ago I was given information that my 3x great grandparents, Thomas > Pearce MORRIS and Harriet HENNICK? were married on 20th. August 1827 at > Speen, Berkshire. > > Can anyone confirm the date and place of this marriage and also the > surname of the bride, please? > > I haven't been able to make any headway with the surname HENNICK. > > Josephine > > -- > Josephine Jeremiah > www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com >

Colleagues The annual Open Day of the Oxfordshire Family History Society takes place on Saturday 1 October 2011. For details of times, the venue at Woodstock etc, please see :- _http://www.ofhs.org.uk/OpenDay.html_ (http://www.ofhs.org.uk/OpenDay.html) The Open Day will feature the usual assortment of visiting societies, dealers in second-hand books and postcards, and the like. As a society, we will have friendly and helpful society members who will try to help visitors find their ancestry from anywhere - and these folks will have the society's own Search Services available for consultation. And a beginners' helpdesk will assist those who are in the early stages of their research. Meanwhile, computing demonstrations will give advice on such things as which genealogical software package to choose, and the use of the internet in family history. A special feature will be a stall put together by the Oxfordshire History Centre - a recent amalgamation of the Oxfordshire Record Office and Oxfordshire Studies - which will give advice on the use of their resources. Admission and car parking are free, and light refreshments will be on sale all day. Best wishes. Paul Gaskell Publicity Officer Oxfordshire Family History Society _www.ofhs.org.uk_ (http://www.ofhs.org.uk/)

On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 12:16:27 +0100, Wendy King <wendyking37@hotmail.com> wrote: > Josephine > > given that they have this as happening in 1828 yet another reason to > double check Ancestry tree data! Hi Wendy, I don't have a subscription to Ancestry, but now and again people invite me to look at their trees on Ancestry and on other web sites and that's when I spot differences from the information I have researched, myself. I remember pointing out errors in family information put on line years ago. No notice was taken of what I said and a very quick check just now, with a few words put into Google, shows that at least one of the errors is still there. (I had looked in the original parish registers so knew my information was correct.) One of my favourite sayings is, 'You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink':-) Josephine -- Josephine Jeremiah www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com

Josephine given that they have this as happening in 1828 yet another reason to double check Ancestry tree data! sorry can't help you with local marriages know the frustration as until West Yorkshire archives let Ancestry put some of their parish registers on line I was stuck as none of those were even on disc you could only look at stuff at the various Archives in West Yorkshire. Wendy The second marriage you've found is of widower, Robert DOWN, and widow, Harriet Pearce MORRIS, who were married on 14th. June 1846 at St. John's Church, Bedminster. The groom's father was Robert DOWN but I don't have a record of the bride's father so I haven't been able to get any further with the HENNICK surname with this marriage. In 1861, widow, Harriet DOWN, 51, (no occupation) born in Berkshire, Newbury, was living at 58 Hotwell Road, Clifton. In 1871, widow Harriet DOWN, 63, was living at 1 Cumberland Place, Clifton. Her occupation was seamstress and her birthplace was recorded as Newbury, Berkshire. Josephine -- Josephine Jeremiah www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BERKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 11:20:03 +0100, Wendy King <wendyking37@hotmail.com> wrote: > checked the family trees on Ancestry - there are 2 with Harriet HENNICK > one has Harriet HENNICK marrying Thomas Pearce MORRIS abt 1828 at > Bedminster. > The second has Harriet HENNICK marrying Robert DOWN abt 1828 at > Bedminster > Both have estimated year of birth as 1811. > Looking at the data I do not think that either tree has been fully > researched and there is no marriage date or parents for either. Hi Wendy, Thanks very much for your prompt response. Yes, those marriages are not correct. The appearance of Harriet HENNICK on these ancestry trees may have come from a rootsweb message I sent in 2009 to the Bristol_and_Somerset list asking for a check on the marriage of my 3x great-grandparents, Thomas Pearce MORRIS and Harriet HENNICK, on 20th. August 1827 at Speen, Berkshire. The second marriage you've found is of widower, Robert DOWN, and widow, Harriet Pearce MORRIS, who were married on 14th. June 1846 at St. John's Church, Bedminster. The groom's father was Robert DOWN but I don't have a record of the bride's father so I haven't been able to get any further with the HENNICK surname with this marriage. In 1861, widow, Harriet DOWN, 51, (no occupation) born in Berkshire, Newbury, was living at 58 Hotwell Road, Clifton. In 1871, widow Harriet DOWN, 63, was living at 1 Cumberland Place, Clifton. Her occupation was seamstress and her birthplace was recorded as Newbury, Berkshire. Josephine -- Josephine Jeremiah www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com

checked the family trees on Ancestry - there are 2 with Harriet HENNICK one has Harriet HENNICK marrying Thomas Pearce MORRIS abt 1828 at Bedminster. The second has Harriet HENNICK marrying Robert DOWN abt 1828 at Bedminster Both have estimated year of birth as 1811. Looking at the data I do not think that either tree has been fully researched and there is no marriage date or parents for either. Wendy -----Original Message----- From: Josephine Jeremiah Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 10:43 AM To: BERKSHIRE@rootsweb.com Subject: [BRK] MORRIS, marriage, Speen, Berkshire, 1827 Hello all, A while ago I was given information that my 3x great grandparents, Thomas Pearce MORRIS and Harriet HENNICK? were married on 20th. August 1827 at Speen, Berkshire. Can anyone confirm the date and place of this marriage and also the surname of the bride, please? I haven't been able to make any headway with the surname HENNICK. Josephine -- Josephine Jeremiah www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BERKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi all, According to the 1851 and 1871 Bristol censuses, my 2x great-grandfather, Henry Pearce MORRIS, was born in Speen, Berkshire. In 1881, his birthplace was recorded as Newbury, Berkshire. His age was recorded as 22 on the 1851 census, 40 on the 1871 census and 53 on the 1881 census. (He was in Ireland at the time of the 1861 census.) He died aged 59 in 1887, so his year of birth may have been c.1828. Does anyone have access to the baptism records of Speen, please? If so, I would be very grateful for a look up for the baptism of Henry Pearce MORRIS or Henry MORRIS between 1828 and 1830 in Speen. His parents were Thomas and Harriet. The occupation of Thomas is likely to have been a carpenter. Josephine -- Josephine Jeremiah www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com

Hello all, A while ago I was given information that my 3x great grandparents, Thomas Pearce MORRIS and Harriet HENNICK? were married on 20th. August 1827 at Speen, Berkshire. Can anyone confirm the date and place of this marriage and also the surname of the bride, please? I haven't been able to make any headway with the surname HENNICK. Josephine -- Josephine Jeremiah www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com

Hallo everyone,  I am hoping this will be of interest/helpful to some of you to maybe take your research back a little further!   I have a book published in 1883 by Rev. Charles Kerry which is about the St. Lawrence Church, Reading and includes its history and many names and details from its records since the 1400s.   One section has some early Wills transcribed and one in particular that I saw today and dated 1493 has so many names as well as relatives of the Testator it strikes me as being a treasure for someone!!   As the names here are from the 1400s they will probably not show in any parish registers however early they go back, but some of you might just be able to link these together with other Wills, to your own ancestors so I am adding them here in the hope it will help. (For me sadly, none of these names are connected to my own ancestors, but I found it interesting all the same). This is just an abstract of the names - please contact me off list if these could be connected to your research so that I can let you know the bequests and/or details of the book if it is possible to still get it.   The Will of Henry KELSALL, of Redyng, clothyer 1493   “ … hole and sounde the mynde, not being syke the body, and in my last days not knowing seke …”   He mentions and bequeaths to various churches “ Saint Lawrence”, “Sainte Marys” and “Saynt Gylys chirch” in Reading. Also bequeaths to the church at Knottesford, Cheshire   He has property in Reading, Southampton and the “Ile of Wyght”.   Thomas KELSALL my brother Roger KELSALL my brother (possibly dead before 1493) Charlys KELSALL son of my brother Roger KELSALL Elizabeth KELSALL daughter of my brother Roger KELSALL Thomas KELSALL son of my brother Roger KELSALL (These three children are probably not of age - 21 or 25 as at 1493 “age xxiiij” ) Agnes my wife Margarett BOSDEN my sister Mawde BOSDEN her daughter Margarett BOSDEN sister of the saide Mawde Jonett SWYNTON my sister Roger SWYNTON her son Any son and any daughter of my brother Thomas KELSALL … to every of my Cosynnes, sonnys and doughters lawfully bigotten, between Thomas MADOK of Knottesford (Cheshire) and Elizabeth my sister nowe being alive … Henry WOODHATCH my godson John SAUNDER my servant Johne BROKE my servant Bequeaths to the marriage of Elizabeth CRANTMORE Bequeaths to the daughter of William SWYNTON Bequeaths to Margery PASTLEWE Bequeaths to Joan ASSHENDON Bequeaths to Henry SADELER Bequeaths to the wife of John LECKE, hatmaker The following ten names are “maynteners and susteyners of thaier devocion of the Masse of Ihu …” Richard CLECHE, draper John BAXTSTER, tanner John LANGHAM, iremonger Stephen DUNSTER, draper Rauff MYLLINGTON, clothyer William TRU, yoman John WYLCOKKS, chaundler and ffisshemonger William SCOCHON, draper Richard SMYTH, gent John TWYTT He mentions also Thomas GRENEWEY my suant (I wonder if this is servant)? He makes Rauff WHYTE of Wokynham joint executor with his brother Thomas KELSALL Witnesses: Rauff HETHCOTE; Richard CLECHE; Rauff MYLLINGTON; William TRUE.   He bequeaths to the “making of the Gyldhall in Reding when the said hall shall be new bilded” He makes bequests to many churches in Berkshire and Oxfordshire He makes several bequests to the “mending of the way between Reding and Pangborne …” (and many other mending of the ways between …) He leaves bequests for a set number of “maydens” and a set number of “pore men”.   The Will was Proved at Lambeth sometime between January and February 1493-4. 　 Well, I really hope there are some gems there for some of you and I would love to hear from anyone that this has hopefully helped. I think Henry KELSALL was a generous man and obviously made a lot of money in his time. I love it that various roads leading from Reading to other places that my ancestors would have travelled over were partly made because of his bequests and I love it that he contributed to the Guildhall at Reading, (is it still there?) and must have known it was going to be built as he provided for it before it was “new bilded”.   I’m happy to pass on more details from this Will to anyone so interested in it.   Kind regards,   Christine Read Cornwall, UK So That’s Where I Get It From www.rootsresearcher.wordpress.com

Hello I'm looking into my grandfather's family called Priest. The family moved to Mortlake where my grandfather Charles Matthew was born in 1892 but his father George William b 1860 (married to Catherine (McBride)) was born in Kingston Surrey. His parents were George b 1837 & Charlotte b 1837. Not sure where Charlotte was born but George was born in Binfield & then he lived in Dunt Lane Hurst with his parents George & Ann, brother Charles & sister Mary in 1841 census & then Wokingham in 1851 census. All I know about George & Ann(e) was that George was born in Hurst 1811 & Ann(e) was born in 1811 in Binfield although 1841 census shows her b 1816. If anyone can take me back further or link in with the family would love to hear from you Thanks Lynne

Dear Andrew > My interest starts from Hannah Woodley who was born June 1828 in > Crowmarsh Gifford and who later married Richard Digweed Warwick (or > who didn't because no marriage recored can be found) who had 6 > children with him and who died in 1912. Can I ask how you know all this? That a Hannah Woodley was baptised in June 1828 in Crowmarsh Gifford is clearly recorded. But what connects her with any later Hannah Warwick living in Wallingford? Is the one that you are interested in the Hannah Warwick, widow, aged 42, living in High Street, Wallingford, in 1871? (at RG10/1274 fol 69 page 17). If so, do you know where she was in 1861 or 1851? Best wishes Paul -- Paul Betteridge, Leafield, Oxfordshire pbetteridge@pobox.com

On 19/09/2011 11:26, K HEDGES wrote: > Wallingford (and Ipsden) have been part of Oxfordshire since 1974. Before then > they were in N. Berks. Just to clarify this: Wallingford was indeed in Berkshire; Ipsden has always been in Oxfordshire. Best wishes Paul -- Paul Betteridge, Leafield, Oxfordshire pbetteridge@pobox.com

Thank you, Nivard - worth a try. Regards James. -----Original Message----- From: Nivard Ovington Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 7:12 AM To: berkshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BRK] Ernest Cope- Reading Hi again If you mean from the 1873 returns of owners of land, they only list the amount of land owned, not where it is They list the residence of the owner but only in very vague terms, just the village, town or whatever rather than a specific address You need to check each census and try and deduce where they are in relation to other addresses The land is likely to be very close to where they lived if not there itself Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Dear Nivard, > > I have not ordered Ernest's will - but I did receive his death certificate > which stated he was a farmer. > > I refer to your reply below and wonder if, as you gathered that info, you > were able to determine where in fact the farm was located or was it listed > simply as near Wallingford or further afield (pardon the pun). > > Regards > James ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BERKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks, Beverley. Would love to peruse at your information..... there might well be a link. Regards, James -----Original Message----- From: beverley anne smith Sent: Monday, September 19, 2011 8:41 PM To: berkshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BRK] Ernest Cope- Reading Hi! James Sorry to take so long family nearly under control so I'll start to get data together and send to you .Though Roger was from Kintbury in Berkshire . Regards Beverley ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Tait" <bledisloe.1@bigpond.com> To: <berkshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 8:42 PM Subject: Re: [BRK] Ernest Cope- Reading Thank you Beverley That is interesting, also. I take it that Roger was from Wallingford....? Regards James -----Original Message----- From: beverley anne smith Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 1:25 AM To: berkshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BRK] Ernest Cope- Reading Good afternoon I have been interested in the Cope theme we have a Roger Randall m Elizabeth Cope Jun 20th 1761, Roger was a Miller (like many of the Randalls) there was money left there. I know its earlier but of interest to me. Also we have a Stroud connection David Randall ,m Sarah Stroud 13th Oct 1812 Regards Beverley 5643 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nivard Ovington" <ovington1@sky.com> To: <berkshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 3:54 PM Subject: Re: [BRK] Ernest Cope- Reading I forgot to post this Another brother of Robert b1844 a William passes away in 1917 a retired carpenter Probate Calendars 1917 COPE William of 7 Croft road Wallingford Berkshire carpenter died 9 March 1917 Probate Oxford 31 March to Dora Stroud (wife of James Stroud) Effects £442 18s 1d So again although substantial he does not have a huge sum to leave Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BERKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3851 - Release Date: 08/22/11 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BERKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BERKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3852 - Release Date: 08/23/11 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BERKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Nivard, I have not ordered Ernest's will - but I did receive his death certificate which stated he was a farmer. I refer to your reply below and wonder if, as you gathered that info, you were able to determine where in fact the farm was located or was it listed simply as near Wallingford or further afield (pardon the pun). Regards James ---Original Message----- From: James Tait Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 10:19 PM To: berkshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BRK] Ernest Cope- Reading Thanks, Nivard. Once more, I am very grateful for all you have written which I find very interesting and I now understand much more clearly the matter of land ownership/renting as you outlined for me. Thanks also for sharing the correction to the name and you intention to make the correction in the index - So, we are back with the irritating question where did Ernest get that money?? - I think almost 200,000 pounds at todays value! And where was he for that period? I guess we will never know for sure ................................. I am in the process of ordering Ernest's will...... maybe there will be a clue there? You have been a tremendous help and I thank you very much for your time, research skills and the helpful knowledge you have generously passed on to me. Best regards James -----Original Message----- From: Nivard Ovington Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 8:03 PM To: berkshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BRK] Ernest Cope- Reading Hi again A couple of things from your post I said he was farming 20 acres in 1871 and was listed as owning just over 2 acres in the 1873 returns *not* that he owned 20 acres in 1871 Most farmers did not own the land they farmed (or at least all of it) in my experience the majority rented or leased the land for a period of time (three years often) and tried to accumulate some of their own as they went along with the profits (if there were any) My point in posting the 1871 20 acres against the 1873 2 acres was that it pointed towards the fact that he did not own the 20 acres The fact the various COPEs are listed as Publican, Licenced Victuallers etc does not necessarily mean they owned the Pubs or Inns they ran, like Farmers most I have come across rented or leased, although I have found the longer Licensees stayed in the same place the more likely they did own the building Your problem finding Robert in 1901 is that he is transcribed incorrectly as COOPER, I have added a correction which will show in the index in a couple of weeks or so Name: Robert Cooper Age: 56 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Annie Cooper Gender: Male Where born: Wallingford, Berkshire, England Civil parish: Clapcot Ecclesiastical parish: Wallingford St Mary the Virgin and All Hallows Town: Clapcot County/Island: Berkshire Country: England Registration district: Wallingford Sub-registration district: Wallingford ED, institution, or vessel: 4 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 146 Piece: 1140 Folio: 17 Page Number: 23 Household Members: Name Age Robert Cooper 56 Annie Cooper 57 RG13; Piece: 1140; Folio: 17; Page: 23. The father of Robert COPE who is listed in 1871 as farming 20 acres, was also enumerated as a Publican & Farmer so its possible he owned the 2 acres and the Robert farming the 20acres owned none but rented all of his The senior Robert b1814 dies in 1901 , his son b1844 dies 1906 and neither appear to have left a will Not that a lack of a will means there was no money of course but the sums left by Robert and Ernest are sizable The question remains where did the money come from, and where were brothers Robert & Ernest in 1911? Did they go abroad and make their fortune? (or rob a bank <vbg>) The wills for Robert & Ernest would be the best bet I would say Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Hello Nivard > > I am indebted to you for your kind research on my behalf - very many > thanks. > > You present some interesting pointers. > > I recall seeing Robert as the 'cow man on Castle estate' and cannot now > seem > to find it. The castle estate would be the ruins of the former royal > Wallingford Castle off Castle Street on the edge of the town, no doubt. > > The money that Ernest left is indeed a mystery. The only plausible answer, > to my mind, is that the money came from his father, Robert? Your ref to > Robert farming 20 acres in 1871 which was reduced in the 1873 returns to > just 2 acres would suggest he sold the land and with any possible savings > after selling the public house he just might have had a sizable nest egg > by > the time he died in 1901? Ernest was the first born and son. Possibly he > stood to inherit the biggest share, if not all, (his mother died in 1891) > of > the estate. > > The fact we are unable to give a date to when Ernest arrived in Reading is > a > complication to a possible support to a convoluted theory regarding a > family > intrigue. > > I am grateful for your help. > > Kind regards > James > Queensland. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BERKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BERKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi again If you mean from the 1873 returns of owners of land, they only list the amount of land owned, not where it is They list the residence of the owner but only in very vague terms, just the village, town or whatever rather than a specific address You need to check each census and try and deduce where they are in relation to other addresses The land is likely to be very close to where they lived if not there itself Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Dear Nivard, > > I have not ordered Ernest's will - but I did receive his death certificate > which stated he was a farmer. > > I refer to your reply below and wonder if, as you gathered that info, you > were able to determine where in fact the farm was located or was it listed > simply as near Wallingford or further afield (pardon the pun). > > Regards > James

Wallingford was in Berkshire but is now in Oxfordshire. I have a John Warwick born in the Workhouse in Wallingford 1908. His mother was from South Moreton a village near Wallingford. South Moreton is full of Warwick's. > From: asjolly@btinternet.com > Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 11:22:17 +0100 > To: BERKSHIRE@rootsweb.com > Subject: [BRK] Wallingford - WARWICK > > Is Wallingford in Berkshire? > > Does anyone have any links with the WARWICK and WOODLEY names from around 1840 to 1920? > And at Ipsden? > > Thanks > > Andrew > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BERKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Barbara, all of my Warwicks came from North and South Moreton, would be interested to know if we have a link.  Naomi Warwick was my Great Grandmother, her Father was George born 1838. Margaret Alexander ----- Original Message ---- From: Barbara Warwick <barbarawarwick@hotmail.com> To: berkshire@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, 19 September, 2011 11:34:47 Subject: Re: [BRK] Wallingford - WARWICK Wallingford was in Berkshire but is now in Oxfordshire.  I have a John Warwick born 1908 in Wallingford workhouse, his mother came from North Moreton a village close to Wallingford and where there is a lot of Warwick's.  > From: asjolly@btinternet.com > Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 11:22:17 +0100 > To: BERKSHIRE@rootsweb.com > Subject: [BRK] Wallingford - WARWICK > > Is Wallingford in Berkshire? > > Does anyone have any links with the WARWICK and WOODLEY names from around 1840 >to 1920? > And at Ipsden? > > Thanks > > Andrew > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >BERKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in >the subject and the body of the message                         ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BERKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message