Daryl ~ I approached this from a slightly different angle. Since Lambourn was in the Registration District of Hungerford, I searched FreeBMD for all registered Honey Births in that R.D.... and this is the result. HONEY Births in Hungerford Reg.Dist. SQ1837-DQ1851 SQ 1837 Male 6 151 MQ 1838 Eli 6 191 JQ 1839 Henry 6 212 MQ 1841 James 6 205 JQ 1844 William 6 25 DQ 1845 David 11 45 DQ 1845 David 6 178 SQ 1848 Septimus Andrew 6 203 JQ 1849 Martha 6 209 DQ 1850 Eleanor 6 221 Most of these accord with your Honey family the 1851 census.... except William & Martha. I cannot find William in the 1851 census, neither can I find him in the FreeBMD Death Indexes. On that basis, could it be that William above is actually your Ambrose? best Anne Higham researching LYFORD surname worldwide

I had the exact opposite - there was a birth registration in the GRO Index that had no corresponding certificate. When queried the GRO came back with the explanation that there are rogue entries in their index and they can do nothing about it. Lucky contacting the Registry Office where the birth was thought to have been registered, and supplying them as much detail as we could resulted in the birth certificate but about 2 years earlier then we had thought, and all for the cost of the certificate, even through the Registry Office had to do the search. So I would say if no joy with the GRO contact the Registry Office and see if they can help. Kevin (England)

On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 21:08:23 -0400 Daryl <dlphistory@gmail.com> wrote: Hello Daryl, > According to the charts on FreeBMD the 1843 and 1844 birth indexes are > 100% transcribed and his birth is not found. I have tried searches > using the Nothing unusual in that. I have many ancestors with unregistered births. During the early years of civil registration, it was thought baptism was a suitable alternative (it wasn't). In one family with 8 children in my tree I have 5 baptisms and 4 birth registrations. With some children baptised only, some registered only, some baptised and registered and the rest neither baptised or registered. When I say 8 children, that assumes all the children they had lived through at least one census and are recorded as being at home with their parents. Further, until 1875 the onus was on the registrar to seek out the details. Parents weren't required to volunteer the information until 1875 when a fine for non-registration was also introduced. "A Comedy of Errors" & "A Comedy of Errors, Act 2" both by Michael W. Foster, detail all sorts of woes regarding missing BMD data at the GRO. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent" The stakes were high but the danger low Charade - Skids

Hello Daryl My husbands grandmother was born in 1864 and her birth was not registered. I have traced her baptism however. Mary Haskell Researching: HASKELL; WHITEAR; TOMS; BROWN Hants/Wilts CHIVERS, KNIGHT, KNELLER, BRICE; MORRIS; HOLDER; WHITE, PARKER; BELL; MOORE, BURTON WITT; PERN; MOUNTAINE; COLE Hampshire WILSON Surrey MATTINGLEY Berkshire CARR Middlesex

On Wed, 07 Oct 2009 17:45:20 +1300 Garry F Bell <gazza@woosh.co.nz> wrote: Hello Garry, > Contained in a quarter I am looking at, the Birth entry is only listed > once but two people are shown as having transcribed it. Is there > another entry somewhere or is this normal? Perfectly normal. FreeBMD requires double keying of an entry to ensure accuracy. If the name you searched is shown in bold text, you can be sure it's double keyed and both transcribers entered the same data. Names shown without embolding are yet to have a second entry made. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent" Stained glass windows keep the cold outside Religion - Public Image Ltd

FreeBMD do like cases of missing pages reported to them, so that they can get them into the system. I think the email address is somewhere on the 'information' pages. --- On Wed, 7/10/09, Vronia15@aol.com <Vronia15@aol.com> wrote: > From: Vronia15@aol.com <Vronia15@aol.com> > Subject: [BRK] Baptism before birth? > To: BERKSHIRE@rootsweb.com > Date: Wednesday, 7 October, 2009, 10:45 AM > Hi, > All the recent discussion re FreeBMD transcriptions > prompted me to look  > again at a similar problem I had a while ago - I had a > baptism from IGI for  > Jesse Winkworth on 29 September 1945 at Oare, Berkshire > (parents David and > Emma)  which looked OK in relation to the 1851 Census > showing Jesse aged 5 in  > Newbury Union Workhouse, but could not find a birth > registration. > Eventually I  found the registration in Oct-Nov-Dec > 1845 by browsing the indexes on  > findmypast.com. It looks as if this page has been missed on > FreeBMD as I > have  tried searching for some other names on the page > through FreeBMD without  > success. However - this is NOT meant to be a moan about > FreeBMD - they have > given us a marvellous resource for which I am most > grateful. I guess it's > just a  case of 'no-one's perfect'. > > Anyway, finding Jesse Winkworth's birth certificate is not > the end of my  > problems. While his baptism is given on IGI as 29 September > 1845, the date of > his birth is given on the certificate as 2 October 1845. > As I don't really > think  pre-natal baptism is very likely I suspect this > is an error in the > IGI  transcription (though I suppose Jesse's mother > could have got the date > wrong  when registering the birth in Novemer 1845). Is > there some kind person > who could  check the Oare parish records for me and > perhaps solve this > conundrum? If so I'd  be most grateful. > > Veronica > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BERKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message >

Response to Jim Ward MS USA Possible Berkshire deaths Sarah Goddard : 1) bur 21Nov1823 [49] Chievely, St Mary the virgin or 2) bur 28Apr 1852 [77], Speenhamland, St Mary Naomi Westbury bur 8 Jan 1863 [77] Boxford, St Andrews Alan Stevenson Brighton UK _____ From: berkshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:berkshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of berkshire-request@rootsweb.com Sent: 07 October 2009 08:02 To: berkshire@rootsweb.com Subject: BERKSHIRE Digest, Vol 4, Issue 229

Hi Daryl Freebmd is a transcription of the GRO index which in itself is a transcription of the returns from local registrars which is yet another transcription from their registers Plenty of room for error as you can imagine And that is assuming he was registered in the first place, in the early days of civil registration the onus was on the registrar to find and register the events rather than the responsibility of the parents, hence there were many events missed If all other siblings were registered I would enquire with whoever holds the original registers to see if the event is recorded, it may never have made it to the GRO index or may be in a way you may never find (Ambrose MONEY for example) If you found a baptism (particularly if in the home parish) it is most unlikely he was adopted as the Vicar would not have recorded him as their son, he is far more likely to know than a registrar If the local registrar cannot find an entry and all searches do not reveal one you may have to resign yourself to the fact it was not recorded, you are far from being alone in this situation Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) >I had hoped to find a birth certificate for my ancestor Ambrose Honey > believed to have been born in Lambourn, Berkshire in or about January > 1844. > He is found in the IGI and in the related microfilmed Lambourn parish > records as Christened April 14th 1844. He appears in the 1851 and 1861 > Lambourn census. By November 1863 he is found in the United States. The > 1900 U.S. Census indicates he was born in January 1844 and his 1912 death > certificate indicates he was born January 6, 1844. > > According to the charts on FreeBMD the 1843 and 1844 birth indexes are > 100% > transcribed and his birth is not found. I have tried searches using the > last name, first name and variations on the names but found nothing. I > have > examined the scans from the original indexes on FreeBMD and failed to find > him. Every one of his siblings born after July 1, 1837 appear in the > FreeBMD index. > > I am looking for ideas of why his birth record is the only missing family > record. Could the index used by FreeBMD be incorrect and there be an > available birth certificate? Is this a clue that possibly he was adopted? > Did they simply miss recording an occasional birth? Any thoughts or > suggestions will be greatly appreciated. > > Daryl

Hi Daryl Nivard has given you a good explanantion. It is estimated that in the early days of the Civil Registration as many as 10% of the births were not registered. There is also a chance that your Ambrose had not been given a name when his birth was registered. At the end of each quarter in the GRO indexes for such cases. Have you looked there? HTH Christopher --- On Wed, 7/10/09, Daryl <dlphistory@gmail.com> wrote: > From: Daryl <dlphistory@gmail.com> > Subject: [BRK] Birth record missing from FreeBMD? > To: berkshire@rootsweb.com > Date: Wednesday, 7 October, 2009, 2:08 AM > I had hoped to find a birth > certificate for my ancestor Ambrose Honey > believed to have been born in Lambourn, Berkshire in or > about January 1844. > He is found in the IGI and in the related microfilmed > Lambourn parish > records as Christened April 14th 1844.  He appears in > the 1851 and 1861 > Lambourn census.  By November 1863 he is found in the > United States.  The > 1900 U.S. Census indicates he was born in January 1844 and > his 1912 death > certificate indicates he was born January 6, 1844. > > According to the charts on FreeBMD the 1843 and 1844 birth > indexes are 100% > transcribed and his birth is not found.  I have tried > searches using the > last name, first name and variations on the names but found > nothing.  I have > examined the scans from the original indexes on FreeBMD and > failed to find > him.  Every one of his siblings born after July 1, > 1837 appear in the > FreeBMD index. > > I am looking for ideas of why his birth record is the only > missing family > record.  Could the index used by FreeBMD be incorrect > and there be an > available birth certificate?  Is this a clue that > possibly he was adopted? > Did they simply miss recording an occasional birth?  > Any thoughts or > suggestions will be greatly appreciated. > > Daryl > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BERKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message >

Hi Garry I thought you meant there were two entries in the freebmd transcript in this case there is just one as usual The reason you find two transcribers is that some entries have been transcribed more than once, in this case they have keyed exactly the same information from scans of the very same page of the GRO index If they had keyed just one digit different it would show in the freebmd index as two entries If you look at the entries on freebmd you will see some are in bold and some not, those in bold have been double keyed (by two transcribers) If I remember correctly, the aim was to have double entered all events by the time its completed Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Thank you for your message. > > The entry I am referring to is a Birth June 1838 Qtr of an Anne > STRATTON.(Reg. Newbury). > . > Garry

Hi Garry Its not unusual and no there are not two entries to transcribe from It probably means there is a digit different in the transcriptions If you let me know the detail in particular I will take a look at it Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Hi > > As the subject of FreeBMD is current I have a question. > > Contained in a quarter I am looking at, the Birth entry is only listed > once but two people are shown as having transcribed it. Is there another > entry somewhere or is this normal? > > Thanks and hope I haven't confused you > Garry

This is quite normal, maybe one has them in caps? Bob -----Original Message----- From: berkshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:berkshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Garry F Bell Sent: 07 October 2009 05:45 To: berkshire@rootsweb.com Subject: [BRK] FreeBMD Hi As the subject of FreeBMD is current I have a question. Contained in a quarter I am looking at, the Birth entry is only listed once but two people are shown as having transcribed it. Is there another entry somewhere or is this normal? Thanks and hope I haven't confused you Garry __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4485 (20091006) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BERKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.364 / Virus Database: 270.14.3/2414 - Release Date: 10/04/09 18:42:00

Hi, All the recent discussion re FreeBMD transcriptions prompted me to look again at a similar problem I had a while ago - I had a baptism from IGI for Jesse Winkworth on 29 September 1945 at Oare, Berkshire (parents David and Emma) which looked OK in relation to the 1851 Census showing Jesse aged 5 in Newbury Union Workhouse, but could not find a birth registration. Eventually I found the registration in Oct-Nov-Dec 1845 by browsing the indexes on findmypast.com. It looks as if this page has been missed on FreeBMD as I have tried searching for some other names on the page through FreeBMD without success. However - this is NOT meant to be a moan about FreeBMD - they have given us a marvellous resource for which I am most grateful. I guess it's just a case of 'no-one's perfect'. Anyway, finding Jesse Winkworth's birth certificate is not the end of my problems. While his baptism is given on IGI as 29 September 1845, the date of his birth is given on the certificate as 2 October 1845. As I don't really think pre-natal baptism is very likely I suspect this is an error in the IGI transcription (though I suppose Jesse's mother could have got the date wrong when registering the birth in Novemer 1845). Is there some kind person who could check the Oare parish records for me and perhaps solve this conundrum? If so I'd be most grateful. Veronica

Jim I will be happy to check the Index for you but you will need to give some indication of where in Berkshire the couples lived. For instance there are 30 George Goddards and 34 Sarah Goddards all dying after 1800 ! And the Index is a "work in progress" so they may not be on it Cheers Elizabeth

The next meeting of the Reading Branch of the Berkshire Family History Society will be held at the usual venue - The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 280 The Meadway, Tilehurst, Reading, RG30 4PE, on Thursday, 29th October 2009. The doors open at 7:15 for 7:45 pm. Arthur Beech will be talking to us about the BFHS Research Centre at Castle Hill, Reading . There will also be the usual Help Desk, and Exchange Magazine Library. Everyone is welcome at our meetings, you do not have to be a member of our Society, so why not bring your friends along? Hope to see you at the meeting. Vicki Chesterman Programme Secretary Reading Branch, BFHS --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I had hoped to find a birth certificate for my ancestor Ambrose Honey believed to have been born in Lambourn, Berkshire in or about January 1844. He is found in the IGI and in the related microfilmed Lambourn parish records as Christened April 14th 1844. He appears in the 1851 and 1861 Lambourn census. By November 1863 he is found in the United States. The 1900 U.S. Census indicates he was born in January 1844 and his 1912 death certificate indicates he was born January 6, 1844. According to the charts on FreeBMD the 1843 and 1844 birth indexes are 100% transcribed and his birth is not found. I have tried searches using the last name, first name and variations on the names but found nothing. I have examined the scans from the original indexes on FreeBMD and failed to find him. Every one of his siblings born after July 1, 1837 appear in the FreeBMD index. I am looking for ideas of why his birth record is the only missing family record. Could the index used by FreeBMD be incorrect and there be an available birth certificate? Is this a clue that possibly he was adopted? Did they simply miss recording an occasional birth? Any thoughts or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Daryl

Mr. Lewis, Thanks for the prompt reply J<im Ward MS USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Lewis" <christopher_n_lewis@yahoo.co.uk> To: <berkshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [BRK] Berkshire Burial Index vs IGI > The parish microfilms, at the > Family History Center (SLC), while having the deaths and > burials included, does not list many deaths/burials in the > IGI. In addition to not finding them in the IGI I can not > find them in FreeBMD. Possibly due to spelling or FreeBMD is > not fully transcribed. The Church of Latter Day Saints is not interested in deaths or burials. Hence there are few in the IGI and related databases, and most of those are Patron Submissions rather the systematic entries from Parish Registers. FreeBMD is a transcription of the GRO indexes to Births, Mariages and Deaths. Civil Registration did not start until 1837, so if your people died before then they will not be in the database. Age at death was not included in the indexes until later (I think in the 1870s, but I'm sure someone else can correct me). In addition the transcription is not complete but you can look on the FreeBMD website to check the coverage. Most of the quarters that you will be interested in are estimeated >99% complete. HTH Christopher

Civil Registration of Births, Marriages and Deaths only began on 1st July 1837, so FreeBMD will have no entries before that. If you have a less common name, and straightforward searches have failed, it is worth searching using wildcards, such as Westbury N* http://www.freebmd.org.uk/search-help.shtml explains. I assume you have either not found, or discounted, the death shown in FreeBMD in March quarter 1863 for WESTBURY,Naome,Newbury,2c,151 Should you wish to join over 10 thousand volunteers who have transcribed entries for FreeBMD, follow the link from Join FreeBMD on the FreeBMD home page http://www.freebmd.org.uk/ Best wishes Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: <jimone2@telepak.net> To: <Berkshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 4:11 PM Subject: [BRK] Berkshire Burial Index vs IGI > The parish microfilms, at the Family History Center (SLC), while having > the deaths and burials included, does not list many deaths/burials in the > IGI. In addition to not finding them in the IGI I can not find them in > FreeBMD. Possibly due to spelling or FreeBMD is not fully transcribed. > > Is There a Berkshire list member that has access to the Berkshire Burial > Index? I am trying to locate the burials of the persons listed below. > They are female WARD family members that have married. All were christened > and married in Berkshire. If the spouses show up in the index, please > include them in any answer. > > HES (sic), Ann Spouse John chr. 4 Jan 1736 > marr. 18 Oct 1762 > > PAYNTON, Mary Spouse William chr. 29 May 1780 marr. > 24 Sep 1804 > > GODDARD, Sarah Spouse George chr. 29 Jul 1774 > marr. 8 Sep 1800 > > WESTBURY, Naomi Spouse John chr. 13 Feb 1785 > marr. 5 Oct 1829 > > SWADLING, Elizabeth Spouse Richard chr. 6 Aug 1769 > marr. 1 Jun 1787 > (AKA) Mary Ann > > Thank you for reading my letter. > > Jim WARD > MS USA > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BERKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

> The  parish microfilms, at the > Family History Center (SLC), while having the deaths and > burials included, does not list many deaths/burials in the > IGI. In addition to not finding them in the IGI I can not > find them in FreeBMD. Possibly due to spelling or FreeBMD is > not fully transcribed. The Church of Latter Day Saints is not interested in deaths or burials. Hence there are few in the IGI and related databases, and most of those are Patron Submissions rather the systematic entries from Parish Registers. FreeBMD is a transcription of the GRO indexes to Births, Mariages and Deaths. Civil Registration did not start until 1837, so if your people died before then they will not be in the database. Age at death was not included in the indexes until later (I think in the 1870s, but I'm sure someone else can correct me). In addition the transcription is not complete but you can look on the FreeBMD website to check the coverage. Most of the quarters that you will be interested in are estimeated >99% complete. HTH Christopher > > Is There a Berkshire list member that has access to the > Berkshire Burial Index?  I am trying to locate the > burials of the persons listed below. They are female WARD > family members that have married. All were christened and > married in Berkshire. If the spouses show up in the index, > please include them in any answer. > > HES (sic), Ann            >       Spouse   John  >       >    chr.   4 Jan 1736  >      marr. 18 Oct 1762 > > PAYNTON, Mary            > Spouse   William      > chr.  29 May 1780     marr. 24 Sep > 1804 > > GODDARD, Sarah        >    Spouse  George      >   chr.  29 Jul   1774    >   marr.  8 Sep  1800    > > WESTBURY,  Naomi    >    Spouse   John    >        chr.  13 Feb  > 1785     marr.   5 Oct > 1829 > > SWADLING,   Elizabeth   Spouse   Richard  >      chr.   6 Aug  > 1769     marr.   1 > Jun  1787          > (AKA)      Mary Ann > > Thank you for reading my letter. > > Jim WARD > MS   USA > > >         > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BERKSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message >

The parish microfilms, at the Family History Center (SLC), while having the deaths and burials included, does not list many deaths/burials in the IGI. In addition to not finding them in the IGI I can not find them in FreeBMD. Possibly due to spelling or FreeBMD is not fully transcribed. Is There a Berkshire list member that has access to the Berkshire Burial Index? I am trying to locate the burials of the persons listed below. They are female WARD family members that have married. All were christened and married in Berkshire. If the spouses show up in the index, please include them in any answer. HES (sic), Ann Spouse John chr. 4 Jan 1736 marr. 18 Oct 1762 PAYNTON, Mary Spouse William chr. 29 May 1780 marr. 24 Sep 1804 GODDARD, Sarah Spouse George chr. 29 Jul 1774 marr. 8 Sep 1800 WESTBURY, Naomi Spouse John chr. 13 Feb 1785 marr. 5 Oct 1829 SWADLING, Elizabeth Spouse Richard chr. 6 Aug 1769 marr. 1 Jun 1787 (AKA) Mary Ann Thank you for reading my letter. Jim WARD MS USA