Hello List. :-) This is my first post to this list. I've been tracing the CREW family tree and become 'stuck' with the marriage of my g.g. grandfather William CREW born c1862. I've chronologically listed all the information I've accumulated to date, below, along with its source. The TUFFIELD birth is present as a possible. I quite agree with a previous comment to include what information you've already seen from the outset. Making some assumptions based on the children's ages I've been looking for a Luton marriage c1878- c1880. I don't know for certain that Emily and Ada were 'our' family but Robert and Alfred certainly are. The names Elizabeth, Emily, May (or Mary) and Agnes (or Ada) were recalled by one of our few living relatives along with Alfred and Robert. I've included the census returns as it ties in a number of things quite nicely. In terms of where I've looked; FreeBMD, familysearch.org and ancestry.co.uk. I've been following the discussion on Ellen Naden with interest and have tried to apply the wider ranging search technique to locating maybe a 'missing' marriage but alas to no result. MY QUESTION: Is it possible that Annie Elizabeth DAVIS and Annie Elizabeth TUFNELL are one and the same person? If so, can anybody suggest a reason for this? Can anybody see anything I've missed? Kind regards Pete FreeBMD Annie Elizabeth TUFNELL Births JunQ 1859 in St Saviour Southwark Vol 1d Pg1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ FreeBMD Annie Elizabeth DAVIS Births JunQ 1860 Camberwell Vol 1d Pg 478 (similar reg district to St Saviour Southwark) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FreeBMD Ann Elizabeth TUFFIELD Births DecQ 1860 Greenwich Vol 1d Pg 646 (*seen note at bottom) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- FreeBMD William CREW Births MarQ 1862 Luton Vol 3b Pg 425 ----------------------------------------------------------- 1871 England Census Street address: 65 New Town St Civil Parish:Luton, Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Town: Luton County: Bedfordshire, Country: England Reg district: Luton, Sub reg district: Luton ED, institution, or vessel: 17, Household schedule number:30 Household Members: Name, relation, Age, status,Occ,birthplace,birthyear. Caroline ELSTON wife, 34, married,hat sewer, Luton Beds, c1837 Daniel ELSTON head, 46, married,46,labourer, Hemel Hempstead Herts, c1825 Alfred TUFFNELL Son, 6, scholar,london, c1865 Alice TUFFNELL Dau, 10, hat sewer,London, c1861 Annie TUFFNELL Dau, 12, hat sewer, London, c1859 Caroline TUFFNELL Dau, 1, none,London, c1870 Charles Jas TUFFNELL Son, 14, labourer,London,c1857 Daniel TUFFNELL Son, 8, Scholar,London, c1863 ---------------------------------------------------- Emily May CREW born DecQ 1878 Luton Vol 3b Pg 434 ---------------------------------------------------- IGI marriages dated 02 JUN 1879 Saint Mary, Luton, Bedford, England William CREW (aged 18, making his birth year c1861) marries Annie Elizabeth DAVIS (aged20, making her birth year c1859) ------------------------------------------------------- Ada CREW born MarQ 1880 Luton 3b Pg 434 ---------------------------------------------------- 1881 census from IGI William CREW Head M Male 20 Luton, Bedford, Road Labourer Annie CREW Wife M Female 21 London, London, Middlesex, England, Straw Hat Machinist Emily CREW Dau Female 3 Luton, Bedford, England, Scholar Ada CREW Dau Female 1 Luton, Bedford, England, Scholar Daniel TUFFNELL Brother# U Male 18 London N, London, Middlesex, England Bricklayers Labourer # = probably should should be 'brother in law' Source Information: Dwelling: 4 Lee Road Census Place: Luton, Bedford, England Family History Library Film: 1341394. Public Records Office Reference: RG11. Piece / Folio: 1651 / 37. Page Number: 19 ----------------------------------------- Elizabeth CREW born c1883 (going by 1891 census) but couldn't find record on FreeBMD, IGI or ancestry. ------------------------------------- From Alfred CREW birth cert: born 28 March 1886 at 74 Sea Road, Luton. Mother "Annie elizabeth CREW" maiden name ‘TUFNELL’ Father "William CREW". Occupation:general labourer ------------------------------------- 1891 England Census Street address: 43 Willoughby St, West Derby, Liverpool. Civil Parish:West Derby, Ecclesiastical parish: St Catherine County:Lancashire Reg district: West Derby, Sub reg district: West Derby (Municipal) ED, institution, or vessel: 34 Household Members: Name Age, Status, birth year, birth place. William CREW 31 Head, Married, b. c1860 in Luton, Bedfordshire Annie CREW 32 Wife, Married, b. c1859 in London. Emily CREW 14 Daughter, single, b. c1877 in Luton, Bedfordshire Ada CREW 13 Daughter, single, b. c1878 in Luton, Bedfordshire Elizabeth CREW 8 Daughter, single, b. c1883 in Luton, Bedfordshire Alfred CREW 5 Son, single, b. c1886 in Luton, Bedfordshire --------------------------------------- From Robert CREW birth cert: Born 1 Aug 1894 at 34 Vulcan St Garston, Liverpool. Mother "Annie elizabeth CREW" maiden name ‘TUFNELL’ Father "William CREW". Occupation: dock labourer. --------------------------------------- Ann Elizabeth Crew born SepQ 1896, West Derby, Liverpool Vol 8b Pg 65 --------------------------------------------- From William CREW death cert: Died 23 Dec 1899 of pneumonia aged 38 at 20 Hughes St, Garston, Liverpool. leaves widow 'Annie Elizabeth CREW'. His Occupation:Dock labourer. FreeBMD Deaths DecQ 1899 William CREW West Derby, Liverpool Vol 8b Pg 486 Aged 38. This would make his birth year c1861 --------------------------- 1901 census, The only Robert CREW in Lancs in the 1901 census. Civil Parish:Garston Ecclesiastical parish:St Michael County:Lancashire Street address:72 Vulcan St. Registration district: West Derby Sub registration district:Wavertree ED, institution, or vessel:30 Household schedule number:284 Household Members: Name Age. Relation,birthyear,birthplace. Annie Eliza Crew 43 Widow, boarder b. c1858 in ‘Lintin’, Beds Annie Eliza Crew 4 boarder b. c1897 in Garston, Lancs Robert Crew 6 boarder b. c1895 in Garston, Lancs Elsie I Thomas 5 Daughter Hugh Thomas 46 head Hugh Herbert Thomas 3 Son Laura M Thomas 7 Daughter Mary C Thomas 41 Wife William E Thomas 8 Son ------------------------------------- Possible death record for Annie. Deaths DecQ 1909 Nottingham Vol 7b Pg 233 Ann Elizabeth CREW aged 48. This would make her birth year c1861. --------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------- From Mar1840 to Dec1900 there's only one female TUFNELL married and thats Alice in SepQ 1882. Searching for marriages using the surname 'TUFF*' Start date:Mar 1874 End date:Dec 1880 District:Luton only produces two non-matches. Searching for any 'CREW' marriages from Mar 1870 to Dec 1895 only produces one 'William' and that's the marriage of William CREW to Annie Elizabeth DAVIS in JunQ 1879. The date is about right, the place is right, first and middle names are correct but the surname is 'DAVIS'. * Annie Elizabeth TUFFIELD appears unmarried in the 1881 census as below with her mother of the same name. Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability Thomas TUFFIELD Head M Male 57 Shoreditch, Middlesex, England Congregational Minister Registrar Of Births & Deaths Ann E. TUFFIELD Wife M Female 53 Pulham, Norfolk, England Ann E. TUFFIELD Daur U Female 20 Woolwich, Kent, England Alice Selina TUFFIELD Daur U Female 19 Woolwich, Kent, England Frederick TUFFIELD Son Male 17 Woolwich, Kent, England Apprentice Engineering E & M Laura TUFFIELD Daur Female 15 Woolwich, Kent, England

Have you ordered the marriage certificate of William & Annie dated in 1879?, It should list her father's name or a formerly name. Could be that she was married before and even pregnant before they got married if Emily is their child who was born 6 months before the wedding. Wndy -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 1:09 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [BDF] New member searching for missing (?) CREW marriage c1878 ( also TUFNELL DAVIS ELSTON ) Hello List. :-) This is my first post to this list. I've been tracing the CREW family tree and become 'stuck' with the marriage of my g.g. grandfather William CREW born c1862. I've chronologically listed all the information I've accumulated to date, below, along with its source. The TUFFIELD birth is present as a possible. I quite agree with a previous comment to include what information you've already seen from the outset. Making some assumptions based on the children's ages I've been looking for a Luton marriage c1878- c1880. I don't know for certain that Emily and Ada were 'our' family but Robert and Alfred certainly are. The names Elizabeth, Emily, May (or Mary) and Agnes (or Ada) were recalled by one of our few living relatives along with Alfred and Robert. I've included the census returns as it ties in a number of things quite nicely. In terms of where I've looked; FreeBMD, familysearch.org and ancestry.co.uk. I've been following the discussion on Ellen Naden with interest and have tried to apply the wider ranging search technique to locating maybe a 'missing' marriage but alas to no result. MY QUESTION: Is it possible that Annie Elizabeth DAVIS and Annie Elizabeth TUFNELL are one and the same person? If so, can anybody suggest a reason for this? Can anybody see anything I've missed? Kind regards Pete FreeBMD Annie Elizabeth TUFNELL Births JunQ 1859 in St Saviour Southwark Vol 1d Pg1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ FreeBMD Annie Elizabeth DAVIS Births JunQ 1860 Camberwell Vol 1d Pg 478 (similar reg district to St Saviour Southwark) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FreeBMD Ann Elizabeth TUFFIELD Births DecQ 1860 Greenwich Vol 1d Pg 646 (*seen note at bottom) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- FreeBMD William CREW Births MarQ 1862 Luton Vol 3b Pg 425 ----------------------------------------------------------- 1871 England Census Street address: 65 New Town St Civil Parish:Luton, Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Town: Luton County: Bedfordshire, Country: England Reg district: Luton, Sub reg district: Luton ED, institution, or vessel: 17, Household schedule number:30 Household Members: Name, relation, Age, status,Occ,birthplace,birthyear. Caroline ELSTON wife, 34, married,hat sewer, Luton Beds, c1837 Daniel ELSTON head, 46, married,46,labourer, Hemel Hempstead Herts, c1825 Alfred TUFFNELL Son, 6, scholar,london, c1865 Alice TUFFNELL Dau, 10, hat sewer,London, c1861 Annie TUFFNELL Dau, 12, hat sewer, London, c1859 Caroline TUFFNELL Dau, 1, none,London, c1870 Charles Jas TUFFNELL Son, 14, labourer,London,c1857 Daniel TUFFNELL Son, 8, Scholar,London, c1863 ---------------------------------------------------- Emily May CREW born DecQ 1878 Luton Vol 3b Pg 434 ---------------------------------------------------- IGI marriages dated 02 JUN 1879 Saint Mary, Luton, Bedford, England William CREW (aged 18, making his birth year c1861) marries Annie Elizabeth DAVIS (aged20, making her birth year c1859) ------------------------------------------------------- Ada CREW born MarQ 1880 Luton 3b Pg 434 ---------------------------------------------------- 1881 census from IGI William CREW Head M Male 20 Luton, Bedford, Road Labourer Annie CREW Wife M Female 21 London, London, Middlesex, England, Straw Hat Machinist Emily CREW Dau Female 3 Luton, Bedford, England, Scholar Ada CREW Dau Female 1 Luton, Bedford, England, Scholar Daniel TUFFNELL Brother# U Male 18 London N, London, Middlesex, England Bricklayers Labourer # = probably should should be 'brother in law' Source Information: Dwelling: 4 Lee Road Census Place: Luton, Bedford, England Family History Library Film: 1341394. Public Records Office Reference: RG11. Piece / Folio: 1651 / 37. Page Number: 19 ----------------------------------------- Elizabeth CREW born c1883 (going by 1891 census) but couldn't find record on FreeBMD, IGI or ancestry. ------------------------------------- From Alfred CREW birth cert: born 28 March 1886 at 74 Sea Road, Luton. Mother "Annie elizabeth CREW" maiden name 'TUFNELL' Father "William CREW". Occupation:general labourer ------------------------------------- 1891 England Census Street address: 43 Willoughby St, West Derby, Liverpool. Civil Parish:West Derby, Ecclesiastical parish: St Catherine County:Lancashire Reg district: West Derby, Sub reg district: West Derby (Municipal) ED, institution, or vessel: 34 Household Members: Name Age, Status, birth year, birth place. William CREW 31 Head, Married, b. c1860 in Luton, Bedfordshire Annie CREW 32 Wife, Married, b. c1859 in London. Emily CREW 14 Daughter, single, b. c1877 in Luton, Bedfordshire Ada CREW 13 Daughter, single, b. c1878 in Luton, Bedfordshire Elizabeth CREW 8 Daughter, single, b. c1883 in Luton, Bedfordshire Alfred CREW 5 Son, single, b. c1886 in Luton, Bedfordshire --------------------------------------- From Robert CREW birth cert: Born 1 Aug 1894 at 34 Vulcan St Garston, Liverpool. Mother "Annie elizabeth CREW" maiden name 'TUFNELL' Father "William CREW". Occupation: dock labourer. --------------------------------------- Ann Elizabeth Crew born SepQ 1896, West Derby, Liverpool Vol 8b Pg 65 --------------------------------------------- From William CREW death cert: Died 23 Dec 1899 of pneumonia aged 38 at 20 Hughes St, Garston, Liverpool. leaves widow 'Annie Elizabeth CREW'. His Occupation:Dock labourer. FreeBMD Deaths DecQ 1899 William CREW West Derby, Liverpool Vol 8b Pg 486 Aged 38. This would make his birth year c1861 --------------------------- 1901 census, The only Robert CREW in Lancs in the 1901 census. Civil Parish:Garston Ecclesiastical parish:St Michael County:Lancashire Street address:72 Vulcan St. Registration district: West Derby Sub registration district:Wavertree ED, institution, or vessel:30 Household schedule number:284 Household Members: Name Age. Relation,birthyear,birthplace. Annie Eliza Crew 43 Widow, boarder b. c1858 in 'Lintin', Beds Annie Eliza Crew 4 boarder b. c1897 in Garston, Lancs Robert Crew 6 boarder b. c1895 in Garston, Lancs Elsie I Thomas 5 Daughter Hugh Thomas 46 head Hugh Herbert Thomas 3 Son Laura M Thomas 7 Daughter Mary C Thomas 41 Wife William E Thomas 8 Son ------------------------------------- Possible death record for Annie. Deaths DecQ 1909 Nottingham Vol 7b Pg 233 Ann Elizabeth CREW aged 48. This would make her birth year c1861. --------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------- From Mar1840 to Dec1900 there's only one female TUFNELL married and thats Alice in SepQ 1882. Searching for marriages using the surname 'TUFF*' Start date:Mar 1874 End date:Dec 1880 District:Luton only produces two non-matches. Searching for any 'CREW' marriages from Mar 1870 to Dec 1895 only produces one 'William' and that's the marriage of William CREW to Annie Elizabeth DAVIS in JunQ 1879. The date is about right, the place is right, first and middle names are correct but the surname is 'DAVIS'. * Annie Elizabeth TUFFIELD appears unmarried in the 1881 census as below with her mother of the same name. Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability Thomas TUFFIELD Head M Male 57 Shoreditch, Middlesex, England Congregational Minister Registrar Of Births & Deaths Ann E. TUFFIELD Wife M Female 53 Pulham, Norfolk, England Ann E. TUFFIELD Daur U Female 20 Woolwich, Kent, England Alice Selina TUFFIELD Daur U Female 19 Woolwich, Kent, England Frederick TUFFIELD Son Male 17 Woolwich, Kent, England Apprentice Engineering E & M Laura TUFFIELD Daur Female 15 Woolwich, Kent, England The List Guidelines http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Pete, It may have been a long message but it was certainly great not to have to go looking for additional data. Well Done. Unfortunately I'm a bit pressed for time today. But I did find a couple of things that seem worthy of follow up. I would certainly chase up that marriage certificate. You might also check if there is a parish record for it as well. Looking at 1871 census, the mother Caroline was obviously widowed when she married Daniel Elston. I found that marriage in Sept qtr 1870. But she already had 6 children. I found a Caroline / Tufnell marriage in sep 1858 at Royston between Daniel Tufnell and Caroline Birch. There is also a death of Daniel Tufnell in Mar 1864 at Hitchin. Although the locations are varied, the date coincides pretty closely with the birth of their youngest child. Perhaps Caroline was pregnant when he died. I then tried everything to find them in 1861 census with no result. After a number of variant searches, I tried just given names of Caroline and Daniel and came up with the following. 1861 Census Southwark Daniel DAVIS Head 29 Caroline DAVIS Wife 24 b Luton Charles INGRAM Son 4 b Lambeth Anne INGRAM Dau 2 b Southwark Alice INGRAM Dau 6m b Southwark Don't ask me why children have a different surname. Perhaps it is just co-incidence that the age and birthplace of Caroline and the given names and ages of the children all match your 1871 Tuffnell family. And you also have the DAVIS surname??? I don't understand why. It will need to be followed though. It could be a clue or just a red herring. See if you can find alternative possibilities in 1861 census. Sorry I don't have more time. Peter