Hi List, my great great grandfather James West was a writer and an artist specialising in stained glass window design. according to family tradition his work adorns a number of English churches. The family lived for some years in Tavistock St. Bedford, and subsequently in Islington. There is supposed to be some connection to Hitchin Church in Bedford, and he apparently attended Bishopgate school when he was 10. His studio after he left Tavistock St Bedford was Dartmouth Chambers, Theobalds Rd. WC James had a brother named Benjamin and their father's name was Richard, who was apparently an ironmonger. I have a copy of the marriage certificate of James West to Ann Margaret Pickford on June 8th 1842, and some census records showing his later family life, but would like to be able to find out more about his earlier life and his ancestry. If anyone can help me I would be very grateful, thanks, Sharon New South Wales, Australia
Sharon, The first thing you need to do is look at the census records and extract dates and birthplaces for James West and Ann Margaret Pickford. Then you should be able to go to www.familysearch.org and search using that data. If he was born in Bedfordshire, there is a good chance of finding earlier generations as most of the Parish Records have been captured. But with such a common name, it will be essential to get almost exact birth year and location. Make sure you compare a couple of censuses. Check any BDM certificates that you may have for evidence of age, birth details or parents. If you can access 1841 census, there is a good chance that both will still be living with parents. Peter in Sydney
Calling all those SINFIELD researchers of which I am one myself. I have a Bethnal Green, Middlesex marriage certificate dated 29/9/1907 between John Elms 21 and Ann Elizabeth Sinfield 20, (birth est 1887). Ann gives her father as Daniel Sinfield, and presumably he is still living, as John Elms father is shown as deceased. But I can't find a Daniel Sinfield in 1891 or 1901 living in London with a daughter Ann (and variants). And the only three Daniel's in 1881 are in Bedfordshire but none go close to the 1863 birth date below. Going back to 1871, there is a Daniel Sinfield born c1863 living in Bethnal Green with parents William Sinfield and Hannah. William is born c1830 at Woburn. But they all seem to disappear after 1871. I've tried every combination I can think of. I'm wondering if one of the many Sinfield researcher on this list has a spare Daniel tucked away somewhere. Peter in Sydney
Does anyone have access to Maulden PR's and could look up the above marriage? I'm trying to ascertain John Sharp's age or parents. There are three John Sharp's christened 1765-1775 in Maulden that could possibly be the groom. *************************** International Genealogical Index / British Isles - 3 Select records to download - (50 maximum) 1. JOHN SHARP - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 30 SEP 1764 Maulden, Bedford, England 2. JOHN SHARP - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 02 NOV 1766 Maulden, Bedford, England 3. JOHN SHARP - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 26 JUL 1767 Maulden, Bedford, England ************************ The first one possible died. He is shown as the son of Henry Sharp and Elizabeth (probably Haynes). But so is the third one. The second one is the son of John Sharp and Sarah (probably Hill) I just need some little clue that might help identify which John married Ethel Fisher. Peter
Hi Peter There's no extra detail in the transcript. Pre 1837 you won't get ages or fathers names, just the names of the witnesses, which unfortunately the transcript doesn't give. You'd need to check the microfilm for that. I assume the three baptisms are 30 Sep 1764 son of Henry and Elizabeth 2 Nov 1766 son of John and Sarah 26 Jul 1767 son of Henry and Elizabeth It looks as though the first one died although there's no burial - but there is a burial of John son of John on 13 March 1766. I wonder if the PR is wrong and it should be John son of Henry. Naming patterns don't seem to help either. They didn't name any of their sons Henry, and John was their third son! With two baptised only a few months apart it's going to be a job to split them. David --- En date de : Dim 21.3.10, Peter Booth <pbo08596@bigpond.net.au> a écrit : > De: Peter Booth <pbo08596@bigpond.net.au> > Objet: [BDF] MAULDEN PR's - 1788 Marriage of JOHN SHARP & ETHEL FISHER > À: bedford@rootsweb.com > Date: Dimanche 21 mars 2010, 7h00 > Does anyone have > access to Maulden PR's and could look up the above > marriage? > > I'm trying to ascertain John Sharp's age or > parents. > > There are three John Sharp's christened > 1765-1775 in Maulden that could > possibly be the groom. > > > *************************** > > International Genealogical Index / > British Isles - 3 > Select records to download - (50 > maximum) > > 1. JOHN SHARP > - International Genealogical Index > Gender: Male > Christening: 30 SEP 1764 Maulden, Bedford, England > > 2. JOHN SHARP > - International Genealogical Index > Gender: Male > Christening: 02 NOV 1766 Maulden, Bedford, England > > 3. JOHN SHARP > - International Genealogical Index > Gender: Male > Christening: 26 JUL 1767 Maulden, Bedford, England > > > ************************ > > The > first one possible died. He is shown as the son of Henry > Sharp and Elizabeth (probably Haynes). But so is the third > one. > > The > second one is the son of John Sharp and Sarah (probably > Hill) > > I just > need some little clue that might help identify which > John married Ethel Fisher. > > Peter > > > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > The Bedfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message >
Hi JAMES WEST married Ann Margaret PICKFORD June Q 1842 at St Lukes Middlesex so had he already left Bedford or did he go there after his marriage? What addresses did they give? Have you checked the witnesses to see if they are family - on either side? What ages did they give? Presumbly Richard was noted as an ironmonger on the cert? Was Richard said to be deceased? You say you have the family on later censii so presumably you have an age and place of birth? You might need to check on both James and Benjamin at least on all censii to ascertain their locations and stated occupations.I cannot see a likely couple on the 1881 so were Ann & James already deceased? Check on Free BMD for the 10 years after a disappearance from the census for likely deaths.. MOST importantly have you recorded ALL of your parents & their siblings details, grandparents & siblings, great grandparents & siblings etc. Patterns often emerge as to locations, occupations, and other affiliations. Family forenames being another. This is very important when you have a "popular" surname to research. Once you have the essential facts together it is easier to find additional info such as burials, funeral notices/obits, articles in magazines, local history books, military records, Workhouse records, Hospital records etc. Have you checked the story of Hitchin Church? Cheers Marlene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharon Mathieson" <sharon.mathieson@gmail.com> To: <BEDFORD@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 7:43 PM Subject: [BDF] James WEST > Hi List, > my great great grandfather James West was a writer and an artist > specialising in stained glass window design. according to family tradition > his work adorns a number of English churches. The family lived for some > years in Tavistock St. Bedford, and subsequently in Islington. There is > supposed to be some connection to Hitchin Church in Bedford, and he > apparently attended Bishopgate school when he was 10. His studio after he > left Tavistock St Bedford was Dartmouth Chambers, Theobalds Rd. WC > James had a brother named Benjamin and their father's name was Richard, > who > was apparently an ironmonger. > I have a copy of the marriage certificate of James West to Ann Margaret > Pickford on June 8th 1842, and some census records showing his later > family > life, but would like to be able to find out more about his earlier life > and > his ancestry. If anyone can help me I would be very grateful, > thanks, > Sharon > New South Wales, > Australia > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > The Bedfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Hi I think he must have already left Bedford. His address is 39 Upper Park St Islington hers is 6 Caroline Place, City Road. They are both listed as full age. Yes Richard is listed as an ironmonger on the certificate and no he is not said to be deceased. If family history is to be believed he died in 1881. The witnesses were Daniel Wezuelin (?) and Mary Pickford According to the 1861 census James is 42 and Ann is 41. I haven't been able to find Richard at all on the censii, but might have been looking in the wrong region. I just looked for James and couldn't find him either, although there is a James born in England at about the right time that ended up in Canada. Maybe he went there. I will try to follow up on the Hitchin church and see how I go. thanks, Sharon On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 9:40 PM, Marlene Shipman <marlene.s@xtra.co.nz>wrote: > Hi > JAMES WEST married Ann Margaret PICKFORD June Q 1842 at St Lukes Middlesex > so had he already left Bedford or did he go there after his marriage? > What addresses did they give? > Have you checked the witnesses to see if they are family - on either side? > What ages did they give? > Presumbly Richard was noted as an ironmonger on the cert? > Was Richard said to be deceased? > You say you have the family on later censii so presumably you have an age > and place of birth? You might need to check on both James and Benjamin at > least on all censii to ascertain their locations and stated occupations.I > cannot see a likely couple on the 1881 so were Ann & James already > deceased? > Check on Free BMD for the 10 years after a disappearance from the census > for likely deaths.. > > MOST importantly have you recorded ALL of your parents & their siblings > details, grandparents & siblings, great grandparents & siblings etc. > Patterns often emerge as to locations, occupations, and other affiliations. > Family forenames being another. > This is very important when you have a "popular" surname to research. > Once you have the essential facts together it is easier to find additional > info such as burials, funeral notices/obits, articles in magazines, local > history books, military records, Workhouse records, Hospital records etc. > > Have you checked the story of Hitchin Church? > Cheers > Marlene > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sharon Mathieson" <sharon.mathieson@gmail.com> > To: <BEDFORD@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 7:43 PM > Subject: [BDF] James WEST > > > > Hi List, > > my great great grandfather James West was a writer and an artist > > specialising in stained glass window design. according to family > tradition > > his work adorns a number of English churches. The family lived for some > > years in Tavistock St. Bedford, and subsequently in Islington. There is > > supposed to be some connection to Hitchin Church in Bedford, and he > > apparently attended Bishopgate school when he was 10. His studio after he > > left Tavistock St Bedford was Dartmouth Chambers, Theobalds Rd. WC > > James had a brother named Benjamin and their father's name was Richard, > > who > > was apparently an ironmonger. > > I have a copy of the marriage certificate of James West to Ann Margaret > > Pickford on June 8th 1842, and some census records showing his later > > family > > life, but would like to be able to find out more about his earlier life > > and > > his ancestry. If anyone can help me I would be very grateful, > > thanks, > > Sharon > > New South Wales, > > Australia > > > > > > > > The List Guidelines > > > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > > > The Bedfordshire Surnames List > > > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html<http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/%7Ehughw/bedf.html> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > The Bedfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html<http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/%7Ehughw/bedf.html> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >
Hi Sharon >From the 2 replies you have posted Ann sounds positive - born in St Lukes and married in her local (parish?) area! I understand Ancestry has many Parish Registers online so you might strike it lucky and get her Baptism as her father's name & occupation should be on the marrriage cert you have. Mary Pickford will almost certainly be related so you should certainly check that out possibilty. Sister, mother, cousin???? As David has mentioned there doesn't appear to be any evidence that James was ever in Bedford - town or County. You might be advised to try another mailing list? There is a Richard West who died aged 94 in Thanet (Kent) Reg District in 1881. That appears to be birth of about 1787 meaning he had a son James about 1819, if you put all your information together. If correct you should find him on censii 1841-1871. Good luck Marlene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharon Mathieson" <sharon.mathieson@gmail.com> To: <bedford@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 11:53 PM Subject: Re: [BDF] James WEST > Hi > I think he must have already left Bedford. His address is 39 Upper Park St > Islington > hers is 6 Caroline Place, City Road. > They are both listed as full age. > Yes Richard is listed as an ironmonger on the certificate and no he is not > said to be deceased. If family history is to be believed he died in 1881. > The witnesses were Daniel Wezuelin (?) and Mary Pickford > According to the 1861 census James is 42 and Ann is 41. > I haven't been able to find Richard at all on the censii, but might have > been looking in the wrong region. > I just looked for James and couldn't find him either, although there is a > James born in England at about the right time that ended up in Canada. > Maybe > he went there. > I will try to follow up on the Hitchin church and see how I go. > thanks, > Sharon > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 9:40 PM, Marlene Shipman > <marlene.s@xtra.co.nz>wrote: > >> Hi >> JAMES WEST married Ann Margaret PICKFORD June Q 1842 at St Lukes >> Middlesex >> so had he already left Bedford or did he go there after his marriage? >> What addresses did they give? >> Have you checked the witnesses to see if they are family - on either >> side? >> What ages did they give? >> Presumbly Richard was noted as an ironmonger on the cert? >> Was Richard said to be deceased? >> You say you have the family on later censii so presumably you have an age >> and place of birth? You might need to check on both James and Benjamin at >> least on all censii to ascertain their locations and stated occupations.I >> cannot see a likely couple on the 1881 so were Ann & James already >> deceased? >> Check on Free BMD for the 10 years after a disappearance from the census >> for likely deaths.. >> >> MOST importantly have you recorded ALL of your parents & their siblings >> details, grandparents & siblings, great grandparents & siblings etc. >> Patterns often emerge as to locations, occupations, and other >> affiliations. >> Family forenames being another. >> This is very important when you have a "popular" surname to research. >> Once you have the essential facts together it is easier to find >> additional >> info such as burials, funeral notices/obits, articles in magazines, >> local >> history books, military records, Workhouse records, Hospital records >> etc. >> >> Have you checked the story of Hitchin Church? >> Cheers >> Marlene >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Sharon Mathieson" <sharon.mathieson@gmail.com> >> To: <BEDFORD@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 7:43 PM >> Subject: [BDF] James WEST >> >> >> > Hi List, >> > my great great grandfather James West was a writer and an artist >> > specialising in stained glass window design. according to family >> tradition >> > his work adorns a number of English churches. The family lived for some >> > years in Tavistock St. Bedford, and subsequently in Islington. There is >> > supposed to be some connection to Hitchin Church in Bedford, and he >> > apparently attended Bishopgate school when he was 10. His studio after >> > he >> > left Tavistock St Bedford was Dartmouth Chambers, Theobalds Rd. WC >> > James had a brother named Benjamin and their father's name was Richard, >> > who >> > was apparently an ironmonger. >> > I have a copy of the marriage certificate of James West to Ann Margaret >> > Pickford on June 8th 1842, and some census records showing his later >> > family >> > life, but would like to be able to find out more about his earlier life >> > and >> > his ancestry. If anyone can help me I would be very grateful, >> > thanks, >> > Sharon >> > New South Wales, >> > Australia >> > >> > >> > >> > The List Guidelines >> > >> > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >> > >> > The Bedfordshire Surnames List >> > >> > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html<http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/%7Ehughw/bedf.html> >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> >> >> The List Guidelines >> >> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >> >> The Bedfordshire Surnames List >> >> http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html<http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/%7Ehughw/bedf.html> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > The Bedfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Hi Sharon Around 1830 there was something of a gothic/Medieval revival. A number of city churches were rebuilt or newly built in the gothic style, along with houses & follies. The inside was as important as the outside & older churches were also given a facelift. James is described as a Medieval decorator in 1851, Master is not mentioned so I agree with Gus that he worked for an employer & must have had an apprenticeship of some sort. Trade directories of the time might shed some light on a local employer. With this skill, whether stained glass, painting, book illustration or wood work (Medieval decorator could cover a multitude of crafts) he would have been in demand and travelled, so Hitchin may have been one of them. St Marys in Hitchin does not mention any direct new work being done then, but James may also have restored existing medieval works. A letter/email to the church (on website) may provide some info as well as the Herts record office. Perhaps there are church records for payment of any work carried out, although this may have been covered by the diocese. Another lead that might be worth pursuing is the 1851 Great Exhibition, the Victoria & Albert Museum hold a large number of catalogues covering exhibits from all over the UK (and the world). There must have been a section for stained glass in the arts & crafts section. An ancestor of mine won a gold medal for lace design at the exhibition. There were over 100,000 exhibits & the proceeds built the V&A, Science Museum & Natural history Museum, the charity is still going today and funds scolarships etc. Hope this is of help Kind Regards Norina > Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:43:31 +1100 > From: sharon.mathieson@gmail.com > To: BEDFORD@rootsweb.com > Subject: [BDF] James WEST > > Hi List, > my great great grandfather James West was a writer and an artist > specialising in stained glass window design. according to family tradition > his work adorns a number of English churches. The family lived for some > years in Tavistock St. Bedford, and subsequently in Islington. There is > supposed to be some connection to Hitchin Church in Bedford, and he > apparently attended Bishopgate school when he was 10. His studio after he > left Tavistock St Bedford was Dartmouth Chambers, Theobalds Rd. WC > James had a brother named Benjamin and their father's name was Richard, who > was apparently an ironmonger. > I have a copy of the marriage certificate of James West to Ann Margaret > Pickford on June 8th 1842, and some census records showing his later family > life, but would like to be able to find out more about his earlier life and > his ancestry. If anyone can help me I would be very grateful, > thanks, > Sharon > New South Wales, > Australia > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > The Bedfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Got a cool Hotmail story? Tell us now http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/
Can anyone help with an address in Bedford St Mary in the 1901 census? The family is that of Joseph Lansberry, at 23 C________ Street. The census reference number is RG13 / 1492, folio 50 page 2. I found the image on the library edition of Ancestry, and am unable to read the street name on the print out, and don't have access to the preceding or following pages to look for it. Thanks for any assistance you can give. E. Crouch Canada
Thanks everyone for all the information. As you have probably guessed, this Aussie knows nothing about English geography. Is Middlesex near London? Is it more likely then that James did have a studio in the Tavistock Street/Road there than in Bedford? Certainly the fact that the other studio in Theobalds Road is so close indicates that. I guess our sticking point is the brother Benjamin. I will check again with whatever family members and see if he was a real brother or a piece of the jigsaw that was cut to fit. They may not know, or be willing to let go of their preconcieved ideas. On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 10:51 PM, Norina Pauling <norina@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Sharon > > > > Around 1830 there was something of a gothic/Medieval revival. A number of > city churches were rebuilt or newly built in the gothic style, along with > houses & follies. The inside was as important as the outside & older > churches were also given a facelift. James is described as a Medieval > decorator in 1851, Master is not mentioned so I agree with Gus that he > worked for an employer & must have had an apprenticeship of some sort. Trade > directories of the time might shed some light on a local employer. With this > skill, whether stained glass, painting, book illustration or wood work > (Medieval decorator could cover a multitude of crafts) he would have been in > demand and travelled, so Hitchin may have been one of them. St Marys in > Hitchin does not mention any direct new work being done then, but James may > also have restored existing medieval works. > > > > A letter/email to the church (on website) may provide some info as well as > the Herts record office. Perhaps there are church records for payment of any > work carried out, although this may have been covered by the diocese. > > > > Another lead that might be worth pursuing is the 1851 Great Exhibition, the > Victoria & Albert Museum hold a large number of catalogues covering exhibits > from all over the UK (and the world). There must have been a section for > stained glass in the arts & crafts section. An ancestor of mine won a gold > medal for lace design at the exhibition. There were over 100,000 exhibits & > the proceeds built the V&A, Science Museum & Natural history Museum, the > charity is still going today and funds scolarships etc. > > > > Hope this is of help > > > > Kind Regards > > Norina > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:43:31 +1100 > > From: sharon.mathieson@gmail.com > > To: BEDFORD@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [BDF] James WEST > > > > Hi List, > > my great great grandfather James West was a writer and an artist > > specialising in stained glass window design. according to family > tradition > > his work adorns a number of English churches. The family lived for some > > years in Tavistock St. Bedford, and subsequently in Islington. There is > > supposed to be some connection to Hitchin Church in Bedford, and he > > apparently attended Bishopgate school when he was 10. His studio after he > > left Tavistock St Bedford was Dartmouth Chambers, Theobalds Rd. WC > > James had a brother named Benjamin and their father's name was Richard, > who > > was apparently an ironmonger. > > I have a copy of the marriage certificate of James West to Ann Margaret > > Pickford on June 8th 1842, and some census records showing his later > family > > life, but would like to be able to find out more about his earlier life > and > > his ancestry. If anyone can help me I would be very grateful, > > thanks, > > Sharon > > New South Wales, > > Australia > > > > > > > > The List Guidelines > > > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > > > The Bedfordshire Surnames List > > > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > _________________________________________________________________ > Got a cool Hotmail story? Tell us now > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/ > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > The Bedfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >
Hi Sharon, > Is Middlesex near London? The difficulty here is "London" - and what was meant by the name.... Up to 1855 it was only 'The City of London', and effectively no more than an "administrative island" surrounded to the West, North, and East by Middlesex, and to the South - separated by the River Thames - by Surrey. Of course the 'built-up area' extended widely beyond the actual City Boundaries, and those parts were loosely referred to as "London" for convenience. In 1855 the administrative boundaries were extended to include the neighbouring parts of Middlesex, Surrey, and Kent - the whole being then known as 'The Metropolis' - although those parts of the 3 Counties remained within their old County Boundaries. [I realise there's no logical sense in it, now OR then, but Our Ancestors presumably knew what they were doing - and they had to live with it.] This state of affairs continued until 1889, when 'The Metropolis' was [effectively] renamed 'The Administrative County of London, and the "added parts" changed Counties. The whole of the area - and still-further reaches beyond - continued to be referred to colloquially as "London"... So the quick answer to your question has to be that much of Middlesex was effectively *IN* London until 1889. [PLEASE don't feel any concern for not knowing the intricacies of English geographical history - the vast majority of us over here know as little of it (possibly even less) than we know of Australian geography. For an island that could be dropped in almost any of your States - and then take months to find it again - it's appallingly complicated...] > Is it more likely then that James did have a studio in the Tavistock > Street/Road there than in Bedford? The problem here is the designation of the thoroughfare after 'Tavistock'. The most-likely places - with any sort of 'Bedford' association - were a 'Square' or a 'Place', both of which were close to Theobalds Road - and close to the addresses shown in the 1851 and 1861 censuses. The 'Road' in Notting Hill is about 2 miles West of the British Museum - still in Middlesex - but doesn't appear to have any association with 'Bedford'. BUT... it has to remain at least a possible, although he'd likely've had to take a horse omnibus or so to get there from his home[s]. Overall, the information so far to hand seems very heavily loaded towards Middlesex - *unless* 1) He was in Bedford before he married. However, as he was born c.1818, and was in Islington by 1841, it is extremely unlikely that a 22-year-old - needing to obtain specialist skills - would've been in any position to set himself up in business. 2) He was there after 1861, and before his 'disappearance' - which seems equally improbable. You haven't yet mentioned what your sources are for it being either 'Street' or 'Road' - or confirmed that James in fact *did* have a studio there [or in Theobalds Road]. It would seem from the 1851 and 1861 census addresses that he didn't 'work from home' - and so would need a studio - but the possibility remains that he was an employee, and that these were his employer's address. Neverthess, it's as possible that - from his stated occupations - that these could quite readily be done entirely on his own, and he wouldn't need to have [and record] any employees. > I guess our sticking point is the brother Benjamin. On this one I can't help at all..... > They may not know, or be willing to let go of their preconcieved ideas. Such things can be hard to accept.... When I resolved the Family Legend that my grandfather's "poor Uncle William" was "killed by a sack of corn falling on his head" by finding he'd actually died of alcohol poisoning [in a teetotal family] my father and his brothers flatly refused to believe the death certificate - because their father'd shown them the Very Place where it'd occurred! The fact that Grandfather had been 4 at the time - so hardly a reliable witness, but had needed to be given some sort of explanation - was dismissed out of hand..... A Family Story is often somewhat embroidered - even if it includes nuggets of truth - "but it ain't necessarily so"... Gus ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharon Mathieson" <sharon.mathieson@gmail.com> To: <bedford@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 11:48 PM Subject: Re: [BDF] James WEST > Thanks everyone for all the information. As you have probably guessed, > this > Aussie knows nothing about English geography. Is Middlesex near London? Is > it more likely then that James did have a studio in the Tavistock > Street/Road there than in Bedford? Certainly the fact that the other > studio > in Theobalds Road is so close indicates that. I guess our sticking point > is > the brother Benjamin. I will check again with whatever family members and > see if he was a real brother or a piece of the jigsaw that was cut to fit. > They may not know, or be willing to let go of their preconcieved ideas. > > On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 10:51 PM, Norina Pauling <norina@hotmail.com> > wrote: > >> >> Hi Sharon >> >> >> >> Around 1830 there was something of a gothic/Medieval revival. A number of >> city churches were rebuilt or newly built in the gothic style, along with >> houses & follies. The inside was as important as the outside & older >> churches were also given a facelift. James is described as a Medieval >> decorator in 1851, Master is not mentioned so I agree with Gus that he >> worked for an employer & must have had an apprenticeship of some sort. >> Trade >> directories of the time might shed some light on a local employer. With >> this >> skill, whether stained glass, painting, book illustration or wood work >> (Medieval decorator could cover a multitude of crafts) he would have been >> in >> demand and travelled, so Hitchin may have been one of them. St Marys in >> Hitchin does not mention any direct new work being done then, but James >> may >> also have restored existing medieval works. >> >> >> >> A letter/email to the church (on website) may provide some info as well >> as >> the Herts record office. Perhaps there are church records for payment of >> any >> work carried out, although this may have been covered by the diocese. >> >> >> >> Another lead that might be worth pursuing is the 1851 Great Exhibition, >> the >> Victoria & Albert Museum hold a large number of catalogues covering >> exhibits >> from all over the UK (and the world). There must have been a section for >> stained glass in the arts & crafts section. An ancestor of mine won a >> gold >> medal for lace design at the exhibition. There were over 100,000 exhibits >> & >> the proceeds built the V&A, Science Museum & Natural history Museum, the >> charity is still going today and funds scolarships etc. >> >> >> >> Hope this is of help >> >> >> >> Kind Regards >> >> Norina >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:43:31 +1100 >> > From: sharon.mathieson@gmail.com >> > To: BEDFORD@rootsweb.com >> > Subject: [BDF] James WEST >> > >> > Hi List, >> > my great great grandfather James West was a writer and an artist >> > specialising in stained glass window design. according to family >> tradition >> > his work adorns a number of English churches. The family lived for some >> > years in Tavistock St. Bedford, and subsequently in Islington. There is >> > supposed to be some connection to Hitchin Church in Bedford, and he >> > apparently attended Bishopgate school when he was 10. His studio after >> > he >> > left Tavistock St Bedford was Dartmouth Chambers, Theobalds Rd. WC >> > James had a brother named Benjamin and their father's name was Richard, >> who >> > was apparently an ironmonger. >> > I have a copy of the marriage certificate of James West to Ann Margaret >> > Pickford on June 8th 1842, and some census records showing his later >> family >> > life, but would like to be able to find out more about his earlier life >> and >> > his ancestry. If anyone can help me I would be very grateful, >> > thanks, >> > Sharon >> > New South Wales, >> > Australia >> > >> > >> > >> > The List Guidelines >> > >> > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >> > >> > The Bedfordshire Surnames List >> > >> > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Got a cool Hotmail story? Tell us now >> http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/ >> >> >> >> The List Guidelines >> >> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >> >> The Bedfordshire Surnames List >> >> http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > The Bedfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message
IGI has a batch record I036410 for the above christening to parents Robert Bettles & Martha. What is strange is that there in no source information other than the batch number. Can anyone explain? I wonder if someone has PR's for Milton Ernest or can identify Robert Bettles and Martha. Peter in Sydney.
There is a baptism at Milton Ernest on 8 Mar 1918 for Sally Bettles daughter of Robert & Martha, labourer I didn't find a marriage for the parents though. However on 1851 census living at ME are Robert b 1789 Bozeat & Martha b 1793 Woolaston; so perhaps there married in Northants They have son Joseph b 1825; & going back to 1841 they have another son Thomas b 1821. On the 19 Sept 1838 marriage at ME of Richard White, minor of Bletsoe to Sarah Bettles, minor of Milton Ernest, it states her father as Robert Bettles, labourer, Witnesses Thomas Bettles & Elizabeth White If you find out who Robert marries please let me know cheers John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Booth" <pbo08596@bigpond.net.au> To: <bedford@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 12:00 PM Subject: [BDF] Sarah or Sally BETTLES - ch 1818 Milton Ernest > > IGI has a batch record I036410 for the above christening to parents > Robert Bettles & Martha. > > What is strange is that there in no source information other than the > batch number. Can anyone explain? > > I wonder if someone has PR's for Milton Ernest or can identify Robert > Bettles and Martha. > > Peter in Sydney. > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > The Bedfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2712 - Release Date: 02/26/10 19:39:00