Hi All, Thanks to Gus, Peter, David and Adrienne. I think that this will only be solved by certificate purchase. To answer Gus's query about where the Baptism records came from, it was from the IGI but extracted and filmed entries. Thanks again for the help and apologies for taking so long to get back but things have been very busy. Regards Pete

The Hertfordshire Surnames List To view - http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html hugh papatoetoe, new zealand http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/ http://www.google.com/profiles/winterscollection

Thanks Joan. I haven't connected him in yet, but I appreciate the contribution. Lee from Australia

Thanks everyone. I used Hugh Wallis's index and found a Sophia baptised in Cardington around the right time, but still no PATEMAN names connecting with the family. I was advised to look at the 1861 Census. John and Sarah BARKER (Schoolmaster and Schoolmistress in Langford) and their children were living with Elizabeth F. PATEMAN (Elizabeth Fossey PATEMAN), who was aged 82, unmarried, blind, and a Landed Proprietor. It doesn't seem that she was related to the BARKERs. Perhaps a benefactor (or, in those days, benefactress)? Lee from Australia

I found a Pateman associated with the area here http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Bedfordshire/WoottonSchoolWW1ROH.html Any connection? Joan. Lee Goleby wrote: > Thanks everyone. I used Hugh Wallis's index and found a Sophia baptised in > Cardington around the right time, but still no PATEMAN names connecting with > the family. > > I was advised to look at the 1861 Census. John and Sarah BARKER > (Schoolmaster and Schoolmistress in Langford) and their children were living > with Elizabeth F. PATEMAN (Elizabeth Fossey PATEMAN), who was aged 82, > unmarried, blind, and a Landed Proprietor. It doesn't seem that she was > related to the BARKERs. Perhaps a benefactor (or, in those days, > benefactress)? > > Lee from Australia > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > The Bedfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Peter, Thank you for your reply. How silly of me, I didn't think to look at Google first, most times I don't find anything. I have since looked for one daughter and found a potted account of her nursing career. Neither daughter appears to have married. Thanks for putting me on the right path. Sincerely, Ailsa Peter Booth wrote: > Ailsa, > > I assume you're looking for local historical type information rather > than just BDM data for this family. > > By finding the births of twins Isobel and James in March qtr 1924 at > Ampthill on FreeBMD, I got a mother's maiden name of Thomson. > > The elder daughter Mary was not born at Ampthill but using the mother's > maiden name I found her registration in March 1923 at Braintree in Essex. > > Looking further afield, I found the marriage of William Brown and Mary > Thomson in Dec qtr 1919 at Billercay in Essex. > > Using Google, I found the following obituary in the British Medical > Journal for Dr William Brown on 14/2/1954. It gives a story of his life and > surviving family members. > > You could possibly check University of Glasgow for medical records and > use the other data to find him in census records for 1891, 1901 & 1911. You > might also like to look at War Records although most were destroyed. > > You might also find nursing records for his daughters. I'm not sure if > Gold Coast refers to the area near Brisbane or some other part of the world. > Perhaps you know a lot of this from family legends, so I didn't look > further. > > You should also be able to work backwards to trace ancestors, although > the Brown surname would be very common. But in 1891 and 1901, he should be > with parents. > > Peter in Sydney > > > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > The Bedfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.431 / Virus Database: 270.14.122/2591 - Release Date: 12/28/09 19:32:00 > > -- Hamilton New Zealand

Thanks for the help. Regards Kevin

Kevin The word is Coprolite colloquially known as dinosaur dung used as a fertilizer. An interesting article from Cambridge History http://www.cambridgeshirehistory.com/People/coproliteindustry.html David -----Original Message----- From: bedford-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:bedford-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Poile Sent: 29 December 2009 21:54 To: bedford@rootsweb.com Subject: [BDF] Occupation of John SUMMERFIELD in 1871 ? Hi Listers, Can somebody have a look at the following census: 1871 - Shillington, Bedfordshire - Household 99 - Reference: Class: RG10; Piece: 1553; Folio: 55; Page: 18 and tell me the occupation of John Summerfield and his son Alfred please? For John I can work out that he is an Engine Driver of some sort but can not work out the word that appears after that. For Alfred I can see that he is a labourer but can not work out what the first word is - but it appears to be the same word as given for his father. Regards Kevin (England) The List Guidelines http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ The Bedfordshire Surnames List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Lee, I'd love to help, but my Pateman families are all 300 years earlier in Flitton and touch my lines only briefly. If you look at submitted Family Trees at Rootsweb and search using Pateman born Bedford, you'll find a number of submissions including some for Langford, but I'm not sure how you'll be able to find a connection. It could be that the name was given in honour of a family friend or an historical figure rather than a specific ancestor. Perhaps another lister knows of some famous Pateman figures from Bedfordshire There may be some clues if you were able to find all eight great grandparents, but if nothing there, I suspect it's come from a notable personality. Peter in Sydney

Hi Kevin Your guess is probably correct I have several cases of being in two places at the same time The schedules were left with the householder in the week before the census and collected afterwards So plenty of scope for error, some misunderstood the instructions, others filled in the form and for some reason or other left the household before census night Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) >I appear to have the fastest moving person in my tree in that in the > 1881 census he appears to be in two places at once as follows: > > 1. With his parents - in Shillingford, Beds - Ref: Class: RG11; > Piece: 1633; Folio: 51; Page: 12 > > 2. With his grand-parents - in Wibtoft, Warwickshire - Ref: Class: > RG11; Piece: 3116; Folio: 95; Page: 4 > > His parents are John & Lousia (nee SUMMERFIELD) GRUNDON. > > His Grandparents are John & Sarah (nee GOBBY) Summerfield - i.e. his > mother's parents. > > I have checked the BMD entries and there only appears to be one George > Grundon registered in 1870/71 in the Bedfordshire area. > > Does anybody else have the Grundon's in their tree that could spread > some light onto this. > > Would I be right in thinking that he was probably away with his > grandparents and the census forms in Shillington were filled in > incorrectly i.e. they mis-read the bit saying only those presemt on > the night of the census were to be included. > > All thoughts appreciated. > > Kevin (England)

The word is "Coprolite" You may not wish to investigate further but google gives plenty of details! Eddie Quoting Kevin Poile <kevin.poile@googlemail.com>: > Hi Listers, > > Can somebody have a look at the following census: > > 1871 - Shillington, Bedfordshire - Household 99 - Reference: Class: > RG10; Piece: 1553; Folio: 55; Page: 18 > > and tell me the occupation of John Summerfield and his son Alfred please? > > For John I can work out that he is an Engine Driver of some sort but > can not work out the word that appears after that. > > For Alfred I can see that he is a labourer but can not work out what > the first word is - but it appears to be the same word as given for > his father. > > Regards > > Kevin (England) > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > The Bedfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > -- ------------------------------------------------- Visit Pipex Business: The homepage for UK Small Businesses Go to http://www.pipex.co.uk/business-services

I appear to have the fastest moving person in my tree in that in the 1881 census he appears to be in two places at once as follows: 1. With his parents - in Shillingford, Beds - Ref: Class: RG11; Piece: 1633; Folio: 51; Page: 12 2. With his grand-parents - in Wibtoft, Warwickshire - Ref: Class: RG11; Piece: 3116; Folio: 95; Page: 4 His parents are John & Lousia (nee SUMMERFIELD) GRUNDON. His Grandparents are John & Sarah (nee GOBBY) Summerfield - i.e. his mother's parents. I have checked the BMD entries and there only appears to be one George Grundon registered in 1870/71 in the Bedfordshire area. Does anybody else have the Grundon's in their tree that could spread some light onto this. Would I be right in thinking that he was probably away with his grandparents and the census forms in Shillington were filled in incorrectly i.e. they mis-read the bit saying only those presemt on the night of the census were to be included. All thoughts appreciated. Kevin (England)

Charles Pateman BARKER, born March quarter 1858, Langford, Beds. Parents: John BARKER (of Cardington, Beds), Sarah ASHBERRY (of Haddenham, Cambs). Grandparents: Joseph BARKER and Sophia; John ASHBERRY and Dinah HALL. Great-grandparents William HALL and Dinah LONG. I am curious about Charles's middle name, as it may link to other PATEMAN relations. My next step will be to request and wait for Cardington parish records. Before I do that, has anyone else already researched the BARKER families from Langford /Cardington, please? Lee in Australia

Hi Listers, Can somebody have a look at the following census: 1871 - Shillington, Bedfordshire - Household 99 - Reference: Class: RG10; Piece: 1553; Folio: 55; Page: 18 and tell me the occupation of John Summerfield and his son Alfred please? For John I can work out that he is an Engine Driver of some sort but can not work out the word that appears after that. For Alfred I can see that he is a labourer but can not work out what the first word is - but it appears to be the same word as given for his father. Regards Kevin (England)

I have joined this list in the hopes of finding information on the above man and his family, who were living in Ampthill in 1924, at 36 Arthur Street. They would have moved to Ampthill possibly in 1923, as twins were born in February of 1924. William's wife was named Mary (or Molly). They had three children - Mary, born in 1923 and twins born in 1924 - Isobel Christine (known as Christine) and James (Jim) Duncan Thomson Brown. William was a medical practitioner, so his name might have appeared in trade directories over the years. I know it is holiday time, but I am hoping that someone might be kind enough to see if they can find information about this family, or any member of it, including how long they may have lived in Ampthill. Alternatively, I would be happy to hear any suggestions of places I could look for myself. As William Brown was a doctor, would there be lists of doctors who had practices in the town over the years? Many thanks Ailsa Petrie -- Hamilton New Zealand

Ailsa, Sorry. I forgot the obituary reference. http://www.jstor.org/pss/20328416 Peter

Ailsa, I assume you're looking for local historical type information rather than just BDM data for this family. By finding the births of twins Isobel and James in March qtr 1924 at Ampthill on FreeBMD, I got a mother's maiden name of Thomson. The elder daughter Mary was not born at Ampthill but using the mother's maiden name I found her registration in March 1923 at Braintree in Essex. Looking further afield, I found the marriage of William Brown and Mary Thomson in Dec qtr 1919 at Billercay in Essex. Using Google, I found the following obituary in the British Medical Journal for Dr William Brown on 14/2/1954. It gives a story of his life and surviving family members. You could possibly check University of Glasgow for medical records and use the other data to find him in census records for 1891, 1901 & 1911. You might also like to look at War Records although most were destroyed. You might also find nursing records for his daughters. I'm not sure if Gold Coast refers to the area near Brisbane or some other part of the world. Perhaps you know a lot of this from family legends, so I didn't look further. You should also be able to work backwards to trace ancestors, although the Brown surname would be very common. But in 1891 and 1901, he should be with parents. Peter in Sydney

Transcripts of the parish records (Baptisms & Marriages for Cardington (1572 - 1812) are available on the FamilySearch web-site Batch Nos: P003461 & M003461. The best way of searching is via Hugh Wallis's wonderful index: - http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers.htm . The front page gives a good description of what the Batches are - these are not member submissions but rather transcriptions. When using them for my Bedfordshire research and comparing them with the transcripts held in Bedford Library I have found them particularly reliable. Kevin (England)

Lee If I can be of any help, I have the Cardington Parish Register here at home for 1572-1812 Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Goleby" <leemgee@internode.on.net> To: <BEDFORD@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 12:16 PM Subject: [BDF] Charles Pateman BARKER > Charles Pateman BARKER, born March quarter 1858, Langford, Beds. Parents: > John BARKER (of Cardington, Beds), Sarah ASHBERRY (of Haddenham, Cambs). > Grandparents: Joseph BARKER and Sophia; John ASHBERRY and Dinah HALL. > Great-grandparents William HALL and Dinah LONG. > I am curious about Charles's middle name, as it may link to other PATEMAN > relations. My next step will be to request and wait for Cardington parish > records. Before I do that, has anyone else already researched the BARKER > families from Langford /Cardington, please? > Lee in Australia > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > The Bedfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Page 1 No of Assessment Names of Occupiers or Persons Rated Description of Premises and Property Rated Annual Value Sums assessed at 6d in the Pound Amount of Arrears of former Rate if any Total Amount to be collected Amount actually collected Date when collected Amount not recoverable, or legally excused 1 James Symes House & 5/5/0 0/2/7 2 John Pinny " 3/10/0 0/1/9 3 Thos Franklin " 1/5/0 " Land 1/10/0 0/1/2 4 " House 1/10/0 5 James Grey " 1/10/0 0/0/9 6 Joseph Flint House & 4/0/0 0/2/0 7 James Topham House & Land 11/0/0 0/5/6 8 Joseph Robinson House & 2/10/0 0/1/3 9 Thos Hand " 2/10/0 0/1/3 10 Francis Danks " 2/0/0 0/1/0 11 Cook " 1/10/0 0/0/9 Page 2 No of Assessment Names of Occupiers or Persons Rated Description of Premises and Property Rated Annual Value Sums assessed at 6d in the Pound Amount of Arrears of former Rate if any Total Amount to be collected Amount actually collected Date when collected Amount not recoverable, or legally excused 12 Charles Clark House & Land 9/0/0 " Land 5/0/0 0/7/0 13 Smith " 2/10/0 0/1/3 15 William Osborn 2/0/0 0/1/0 16 Samuel Penny 2/0/0 0/1/0 17 Leighton 5/0/0 0/2/6 18 Mrs Flawn 4/0/0 0/2/0 19 John Taylor White Horse Inn 18/0/0 " Paddock 12/0/0 " Land 14/4/2 1/17/1 ½ 21 Willm Rosamond House 1/15/0 0/0/10 ½ 22 Mrs Rosamond 1/15/0 0/0/10 (totals) 107/4/2 2/12/9 0/0/10 ½ Page 3 No of Assessment Names of Occupiers or Persons Rated Description of Premises and Property Rated Annual Value Sums assessed at 6d in the Pound Amount of Arrears of former Rate if any Total Amount to be collected Amount actually collected Date when collected Amount not recoverable, or legally excused 23 George Hart House &c 1/10/0 0/0/9 24 John Fisher 1/10/0 0/0/9 25 William Masson House by Mill(?) 14/5/0 0/7/1 ½ 26 William Loyley House & 1/10/0 0/0/9 27 Miss Croot " 3/10/0 0/1/9 28 Sophia Flawn " 3/10/0 0/1/9 29 " 1/10/0 30 " 1/10/0 31 Mrs Child " 1/10/0 0/0/9 32 1/10/0 33 Joseph Wright 1/10/0 0/0/9 34 1/10/0 35 1/10/0 Page 4 No of Assessment Names of Occupiers or Persons Rated Description of Premises and Property Rated Annual Value Sums assessed at 6d in the Pound Amount of Arrears of former Rate if any Total Amount to be collected Amount actually collected Date when collected Amount not recoverable, or legally excused 36 William Peck House & 1/10/0 0/0/9 37 Griffin Cant 3/0/0 0/1/6 38 John Emery House & Shop 11/0/0 0/4/0 39 John Stamford 1/10/0 0/0/9 40 Robert Flanders 1/10/0 0/0/9 41 George Hand 1/10/0 0/0/9 42 1/10/0 0/0/9 43 Mrs Tasser 1/0/0 0/0/6 44 William Farr 1/0/0 0/0/6 Page 5 No of Assessment Names of Occupiers or Persons Rated Description of Premises and Property Rated Annual Value Sums assessed at 6d in the Pound Amount of Arrears of former Rate if any Total Amount to be collected Amount actually collected Date when collected Amount not recoverable, or legally excused 45 William (?)ax House 3/0/0 " ? 1/0/0 " Land 15/12/5 " " 7/4/7 " Farm 175/2/6 5/0/10 ½ 46 Joseph Sargent House & 1/0/0 0/0/6 47 William Hand " 1/0/0 0/0/6 48 William Day House & Land 11/8/0 0/5/8 ¼ 49 Murden House & 1/10/0 0/0/9