Hi Betty, Have you Come across a Charlotte Read on your travels, she married Thomas Poynter at Chelgrave 1798 and had 4 of her Children baptised at Toddington it's a long shot. Judy from Napier. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Betty Lark" <lark.nelson@xtra.co.nz> To: <BEDFORD-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, 16 December 2005 11:18 AM Subject: [BDF] READ of Bedford > Dear Listers, > > I have a READ (such a common name) problem that I wonder if anyone can help > with please. > > 1. Mary READ bapc1706 Hockliff (IGI says father READ Mother Ann but of > course Mary could have been illigitimate and mother was Ann READ (Single). > Mary READ m.23 Jan. 1727/28 Toddington Thomas BUNKER Mary d.c1775 Westoning. > > 2. John READ bapc.1748 m.7 Aug. 1775 Chalgrave Sarah JANES and had 6 > children > > 3. Joseph READ bapc1747 m. 18 Oct. 1780 Lidlington Sarah PLUMMER they had 8 > children Joseph d. Apl. 1818 71yrs. > > Where John & Joseph READ brothers? I have found a family of READ in Watford > Herts. did they by any chance come over the border? Can any one suggest > where I can confirm these bapts. somewhere. > > Thanks for any help that you can offer it is much appreciated. > Regards > Betty Lark > Richmond, Nelson, NZ > > > > ==== BEDFORD Mailing List ==== > When REPLYING to a message sent to the list decide if this is information that all the list members would like to know about or whether it would only be of interest to the individual you are replying to. > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.0/203 - Release Date: 15/12/05 > >

Dear Listers, I have a READ (such a common name) problem that I wonder if anyone can help with please. 1. Mary READ bapc1706 Hockliff (IGI says father READ Mother Ann but of course Mary could have been illigitimate and mother was Ann READ (Single). Mary READ m.23 Jan. 1727/28 Toddington Thomas BUNKER Mary d.c1775 Westoning. 2. John READ bapc.1748 m.7 Aug. 1775 Chalgrave Sarah JANES and had 6 children 3. Joseph READ bapc1747 m. 18 Oct. 1780 Lidlington Sarah PLUMMER they had 8 children Joseph d. Apl. 1818 71yrs. Where John & Joseph READ brothers? I have found a family of READ in Watford Herts. did they by any chance come over the border? Can any one suggest where I can confirm these bapts. somewhere. Thanks for any help that you can offer it is much appreciated. Regards Betty Lark Richmond, Nelson, NZ

Many thanks, all who answered. I think I have a better idea what that was all about. cath

Philip, Hockliffe is on the LDS IGI (www.familysearch.org) for the entire period. There are only two MERIDALE/MERRIDALE in Hockliffe during that period, both Johns. John MERIDALE chr 22 Mar 1824 son James & Ann John MERRIDALE chr 23 Jul 1826 son Thomas & Mary No William in all of Bedford. In the 1800s most are non-comformist entries. No other children for James and Ann but quite a few for Thomas & Mary. James and Thomas seem to be brothers, one chr in Chalgrave and one in Hockliffe, children of John and Mary. Checked Buckingham also, still don't find William. In my experience in this area, there are lots of gaps in families that were non-conformist. Charlotte

From the 1870s-1930s, Barnardos and other organisations were only sending children to Canada, they started sending children to Australia in the late 1930s I believe. Hope this helps George --------------------------------- To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre.

>"part of a group of children rescued off the streets and sent abroad, or part >of a family encouraged to emigrate by the agents who worked in England then". > >My question is: Would his background details have been given to his >adoption/foster parents in Australia 'if' he were a British Home Child The 'Home child'designation is usually one given to emigrants to Canada, where it means something specific/ We don't see here quite the same concentration for Australia. However, a lot will depend on the date and circumstances. In the ?1920s, Kingsley Fairbridge arrnaged semi-official emigration of British children, and they were, I think, well documented. Catholic organisations did the same, at intervals, and I think deliberately cut off information, so the parents could not 'upset' the children, so finding about about them would be difficult. Barnardos organised a lot of emigration and do keep excellent records to this day (with photos etc). Other orphanages were not so careful. Sundry small groups arranged emigration ad hoc - for instance, in Bucks, a local schoolmaster in the late 1870s thought there would be great opportunities in Queensland, went over to check, decided yes, and collected c 200 people in families (who most did well). These are well documented, because he was a conscientious man. Some parishes or later Unions encouraged emigration, and offered incentives to those who listened to the agents who were over here. Some kept a list, which survives, some just annotated the individual workhouse records, some didn't bother. Gone was gone. The 'rogue' cases, such as I outlined, where a family emigrated as a whole, intending to settle, but perhaps was stricken by fever, which might leave one small child an orphan, are only likely to be recorded on a shipping list as a group, with no formal note about the child's disposal. The local newspaperin OZ (or the ship's log/doctor's journal if the parents died at sea) is about the best bet. News would not be very likely to be sent back, unless the child /family had close kin on the voyage (and if so, why didn't they take him?) If an uncle should have done so, and didn't, he is unlikely to have spread the news. >birth details have been kept secret from the Australian 'parents'? I think it was Catholic policy - and rather later (1930s/40s) this attitude spread, expecially where a child was adopted. The clean break policy made things very difficult for kin trying to trace. We know his >adopted parents later gave him a f ew details of his birh family ...would they >have been able to do this if he were a British Home Child? Maybe - but it is possible they looked after the parents at the last, or at least knew about them from observation locally, so maybe the local paper is the way to go? As they DID know some details, it musty mean some contact. > -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

In message <MABBLMMEBBFIBCCILIAIKEKMHAAA.terry.barcock@153.co.uk>, "Terry Barcock, 153 Ltd" <terry.barcock@153.co.uk> writes >Eve McLaughlin wrote: > >"change of name on joining the army etc against the wishes of father". > >How did this work in practice? Was it necessary to obtain father's >signature? Not normally in the past, but if father strongly objected to a juvenile son going (or the lad was an apprentice, who could not legally join up) it was easier to avoid someone recognising the name and letting Dad know. A father (or master) could steam up and demand the return of an underage or apprenticed lad - and think of the loss of face. Same applied if he had got a girl into trouble (or was in debt) and wished to avoid easy detection. If he was recognised, well, then he was, but if the name was heard and passed back to the wrong quarter, it made repercussions easier. -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

Thanks Steven for your very quick reply. I think the Rebecca Jones on the 1851 is probably the correct one. The one on the 1871 is only 11 so too young. Of course, I had totally forgot to try LDS index!! I had a look today and found Rebecca Jones, I also found George GRAY and daughter Hannah Sutton GRAY. I think the Rebecca Bunker registered on FreeBMD with a birth date of March quarter 1849 is probably Rebecca Jones, christened Dec of that year as I cannot find a Rebecca JONES born around that time on FreeBMD. It just seems too much of a coincidence that Rebecca is living in a BUNKER household. Perhaps Henry BUNKER acknowledged paternity when registering the birth and then had second thoughts! Who knows? This explanation will have to do for now, unless someone can come up with a better one. I could, of course, go for marriage and/or birth certs., but this is only a quite distant branch of the tree. I just like to get as many loose ends tied up as possible. As I couldn't get any further back with my direct lines at the moment I decided to explore the "branches" and it's been surprising what I've come up with. They say the devil finds work for idle hands. Trouble is, every time I find out a bit more information, I end up making more work! Thanks again for your help Barbara ----------------------------------------- Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information

Searching for SKS within Carlton and/or neighboring towns to assist with local research within Carlton, especially digital photos of the property, current resident (from telephone directory or personal visit), resources through local library or government office, etc. My research has provided the following regarding Staysmore Manor: The Manor House lay on High Street, to the South of the Street roughly opposite the Village Green. Is the Village Green a park? The Manor passed into the hands of the Earl de Grey/Lucas family and was sold to Bedfordshire County Council sometime after 1904. The Council sold the property (by auction) to Mr. R. Smith of Mentone House, Aspley Gusie who operated 'Stayesmore Manor Nursing Home' in the 1950s-70s, maybe longer? Are there any local resources in Carlton that may be able to provide further details such as telephone directories, registry of electors, etc. to learn more about this property. I also gleaned this info off the web last night (Carlton and Chellington Parish Council): William Fairey was listed as being a private resident, Stayesmore Manor in the 1936 Kelly's Directory, also commercially as a Farmer, also of Stayesmore Manor. Harold Fairey, his father I believe, farmed Victoria Farm (Kelly's Directory 1914). Mr. William Fairey farmed at Dungee Farm, Manor Farm and Priory Farm, Harrold. He lived for many years in Harrold, before moving to Stayesmore Manor in Carlton in 1920. He and his family lived at Stayesmore until 1932 when they went to Chellington House. Looking forward, anxiously, to your replies! Regards, Mike Kendall San Diego, CA USA

Hi George, Haven't read the following - but might be of some interest/help. http://ist.uwaterloo.ca/~marj/genealogy/children/australia.html http://ist.uwaterloo.ca/~marj/genealogy/homeadd.html Cheers, Stella At 11:26 AM 12/11/2005, you wrote: > >From the 1870s-1930s, Barnardos and other organisations were only > sending children to Canada, they started sending children to Australia in > the late 1930s I believe. > > Hope this helps > > George > > >--------------------------------- >To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new >Yahoo! Security Centre. > > >==== BEDFORD Mailing List ==== >When REPLYING to a message sent to the list decide if this is information >that all the list members would like to know about or whether it would >only be of interest to the individual you are replying to.

Hi David, Your response to my post to the Bedford List never reached me. I only found it this morning when I checked the Archives to see if my post had gone through because I never received a copy in my inbox for some reason. Anyway, thanks for checking the Tebbutt name for me. I had found those few entries on the IGI and was hoping if they were still in Bedfordshire in 1841, that the census data might help me to confirm it all. I should love to have the 1851 census data that you found in Middlesex if you wouldn't mind. Many thanks again for the lookup. Pat -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/197 - Release Date: 12/9/2005

So, we're about halfway through the year 1800 now. These records were extensive! Jim Bundy (Date) (Name/Item) (Amount) 1800 Jno Morton's Disbts from June the 14th till July 14th Brot Forwd 76/10/8 ½ July 2d Pd Frans Hattwood 3/ Quick 4/ 0/7/0 Wid Day 2/ Ham Bastefield 3/ 0/5/0 Jno Markham 4/6 T Martin 2/ 0/6/6 W Hull 1/ T Townsend 4/ 0/5/0 Wm Barker 2/ S Braybrooks 2/6 0/4/6 W Shadbolt 3/6 W Valentine 3/ 0/6/6 W Stokes 2/6 G Townsend 4/ 0/6/6 Jno Mason 3/ Jno Smith 2/6 0/5/6 Sar Neal 2/ Wid Brown 4/ 0/6/0 Mary Oakley 7/6 Wid Ray 2/6 0/10/0 Wid Gobby 3/ Wid Sumpter 3/ 0/6/0 S Sallaway 2/6 Wid Gardner 5/ 0/7/6 Wid Thornton 1/6 T Rowlett 5/ 0/6/6 T Fisher 1/ Booth's Child 2/ 0/3/0 W Cullup 1/ Wid Allison 2/6 0/3/6 Rt Smith 5/ W Gardner 5/ 0/10/0 T Walker 2/ W Foot 1/ 0/3/0 W Taylor 4/ Rob Barns 1/ 0/5/0 Pd Jos Newman 0/2/0 Hen Maddey 2 Weeks Pay 0/3/0 W Simpson 3/6 Do Daughter 6/ 0/9/6 Pd for Receiving Finding Family 0/8/6 Do Wife 0/5/0 For putting do bed up 0/0/4 Brit Brace 2/ Wid Neal 1/ 0/3/0 Pd W Cranfield 6/ T Rowlett 2/6 0/8/6 Rt Quince 1/6 W Hull 1/ 0/2/6 Rt Smith 4/ Taylor 4/ 0/8/0 T Johnson 4/ W Valentine 3/ 0/7/0 W James 2/ James Child 1/ 0/3/0 Appleby 4/ T Chessham 2/ 0/6/0 Wid Peck 4/ Thody's Child 1/6 0/5/6 Wid Thody 4/ 0/4/0 Mrs Sibley a Bea Bill 0/6/11 Do a do for Lofty when in cr?d 0/2/8 ½ Card forwd 75/0/2

> I am hoping someone will be able to help me with the following. I have a > George GRAY connected to my family tree. He was born about 1853 in > Edlesborough, Bucks, and I can find him in every census from 1851 to 1901. > He married a Rebecca, born abt. 1850, Tilsworth, in about 1872 and their > daughter Hannah Sutton GRAY was born in 1873, registration district > Leighton Buzzard. I can find on FreeBMD a George GRAY marrying a Rebecca > Bunker JONES,1872, reg.district. Leighton Buzzard, so am assuming this is > the correct one. Trouble is I cannot find Rebecca on 1861 or 71 census. I > see their are quite a few BUNKERS in Tilsworth, but cannot find a Rebecca > Bunker JONES. From the BVRI2 GRAY, George Age: 18 Marriage Wife: Rebekah Bunker JONES Age: 22 Marriage Date: 28 Nov 1871 Recorded in: Edlesborough, Buckinghamshire, England Wife's Father: Henry JONES Source: FHL Film 1042381 Dates: 1813 - 1881 From the IGI REBECCA JONES Female Christening: 16 DEC 1849 Tilsworth, Bedford, England Mother: SARAH JONES but also REBECCA JONES Female Christening: 08 JUN 1856 Tilsworth, Bedford, England Mother: SARAH JONES (This is odd as the first Rebecca definitely seems to have survived. However, there is Rebecca Jones the right age in 1871, so I'd imagine there were two Sarah Jones, both of whom had a little accident!)) In the 1851 census Census Place: Tilsworth, Bedfordshire Source: PRO Ref HO107 Piece 1755 Folio 394 Page 3 Henry BUNKER M 33 M Tilsworth, Bedfordshire Rel: Head Occ: Ag lab Sarah BUNKER M 25 F Tilsworth, Bedfordshire Rel: Wife Rebecca JONES M 1 F Tilsworth, Bedfordshire Rel: Wife's daughter Sarah BUNKER U 1?m F Tilsworth, Bedfordshire Rel: Daughter Elizabeth NICHOLLS U 48 F London, Middlesex Rel: Visitor Occ: Dress maker In 1871 Dwelling: Tilsworth Road, Farm House Census Place: Tilsworth, Bedfordshire Source: PRO Ref RG9 Piece 1004 Folio 138 Page 9 Sarah BUNKER W 75 F London Rel: Head Occ: Farmer of 180 acres employing 7 labourers 3 boys Henry BUNKER W 43 M Tilsworth, Bedfordshire Rel: Son Occ: Farmer's son Avis BUNKER U 17 F Stanbridge, Bedfordshire Rel: Granddaughter Occ: Farmer's granddaughter Rebekah BUNKER U 11 F Tilsworth, Bedfordshire Rel: Granddaughter Occ: Scholar Sarah BUNKER U 9 F Tilsworth, Bedfordshire Rel: Granddaughter Occ: Scholar Edwin BUNKER U 8 M Tilsworth, Bedfordshire Rel: Grandson Occ: Scholar William HIMES U 50 M Clophill, Bedfordshire Rel: Servant Occ: Farm servant Rebecca is down in 1871 as Rebekah BUNKER, again. RG10/1559 f137 p11. I hope this helps. Steven Gibbs Beford

Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 9:10 PM Subject: [BDF] Rebecca Bunker JONES. This is specifically for Barbara, but is worth suggesting to other people who have uncommon names (not Smith obviously!) It's worth checking the Guild Of One Name Studies aka GOONS: http://www.one-name.org/register.shtml Christopher Gray is the very helpful chap doing a one name study of all GRAY names. He might know of George and his 'missing missus';-) Regards, Ruth in Brum. > I am hoping someone will be able to help me with the following. I have a George GRAY connected to my family tree. He was born about 1853 in Edlesborough, Bucks, and I can find him in every census from 1851 to 1901. He married a Rebecca, born abt. 1850, Tilsworth, in about 1872 and their daughter Hannah Sutton GRAY was born in 1873, registration district Leighton Buzzard. I can find on FreeBMD a George GRAY marrying a Rebecca Bunker JONES,1872, reg.district. Leighton Buzzard, so am assuming this is the correct one. Trouble is I cannot find Rebecca on 1861 or 71 census. I see their are quite a few BUNKERS in Tilsworth, but cannot find a Rebecca Bunker JONES. > Is there anyone who has researched this name/family, who can help me?<

Hello, I am hoping someone will be able to help me with the following. I have a George GRAY connected to my family tree. He was born about 1853 in Edlesborough, Bucks, and I can find him in every census from 1851 to 1901. He married a Rebecca, born abt. 1850, Tilsworth, in about 1872 and their daughter Hannah Sutton GRAY was born in 1873, registration district Leighton Buzzard. I can find on FreeBMD a George GRAY marrying a Rebecca Bunker JONES,1872, reg.district. Leighton Buzzard, so am assuming this is the correct one. Trouble is I cannot find Rebecca on 1861 or 71 census. I see their are quite a few BUNKERS in Tilsworth, but cannot find a Rebecca Bunker JONES. Is there anyone who has researched this name/family, who can help me? Barbara ----------------------------------------- Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information

Mary Lou, One day I'm going to find a link to one of your families. I keep seeing your name with all these familiar Bedford surnames, but just can't clinch a connection. Summerfield is another we have in common, although mine is not a direct line. Ann Summerfield married into my Sharp line from around Ampthill / Maulden / Clophill in 1820. Because the name caught my eye, I did a bit of checking. Unfortunately, I didn't find much, but I might be able to provide some clues or eliminate possibilities. The bad news is, the surname looks pretty common in Bedfordshire. I've found them in Dunstable, Bedford and Clophill. You also found them in Lilley, Herts. Significantly, with the fairly comprehensive IGI coverage of Bedfordshire parish records, a parent search using Thomas & Martha didn't reveal any other children in Bedford or surrounding counties. I think the nearest was Uttoxeter, Staffordshire. This lends weight to your non-conformist theory. One thing that I did find at Lilley was a 1795 christening of a Sarah to Richard Summerfield and Ann. You might like to investigate as it seems Richard could be a brother to Thomas. Another line of investigation is Martha b1774 at Crawley Green, Luton. Do you know how to search with just a given name ? Using the Hugh Wallis batch site at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers.htm#PageTitle you will see that there are only two available batches in Luton covering 1774. Batch C090831 from the Baptist Church covers 1769-1836. Batch C016753 from St Marys covers 1719-1812. If you click on the batch numbers, go into the batch and then use refine search, you can look up all the christenings for the name Martha. You will find only 2 on the Baptist batch but lots on St Mary's. But by narrowing the search period, you can get a short list of 10-12 Martha's. Then by process of elimination using marriage records, you will get down to just a couple. Something to do to fill in those cold nights in Vancouver. Peter in Sydney

Hi Wonder if anyone has easy access to Hockliffe Parish Registers I live outside of the county. Looking for the Baptism of my ggGrandfather William MERRIDEL or similar spelling (many variations!) around 1821-1825. Also a Baptism for a brother John MERRIDEL likely to be a year or so earlier. Parents think will be shown as James & Mary (or Mary Ann). Any help v much appreciated ...... Philip Baxter

Patricia Salter wrote: >Hi list >I know someone has answered this question before on one of my lists but I've lost the email - can someone explain what "alias" denotes when used in a name ie Joan Smyth alias Fowler - Is Smyth the original surname and Fowler the married name or vice versa? > An alias is another name a person is known by, not their married name. Sometimes it's done to disguise a person's true identity for nefarious purposes, but more often not. Legally, you can go by any name you like, but you can only sign legal documents in your legally registered name. Lila. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil - The Truth Against the World

Hi Eve and everyone else who answered my query, Thank you, and Eve has probably hit it on the head with the occupation theory. In my case the name comes from the father as all his children are baptised with the Smyth alias Fowler surname, I now have to follow them down the generations and see which name they decided to stick with. Patti ----- Original Message ----- From: Eve McLaughlin To: BEDFORD-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 11:04 PM Subject: Re: [BDF] "Alias" In message <00cf01c5fcce$d4d41ae0$0202a8c0@yourkpfhbnwogn>, Patricia Salter <ps015p6402@blueyonder.co.uk> writes >Hi list >I know someone has answered this question before on one of my lists but I've >lost the email - can someone explain what "alias" denotes when used in a name ie >Joan Smyth alias Fowler - Is Smyth the original surname and Fowler the married >name or vice versa? You are thinking of 'Jane Smith formerly Jones', used in birth certificates. An alias name can arise in various ways, but not in the way you mention. In the ordinary way, if she is a married woman, then it is her husband who uses or used two names; (if unmarried, the surnames were her father's) he may have acquired the alias 1. through illegitimacy, his own or his ancestor's 2. because a widow with young children remarried, and her children were known by the stepfather's name while in his home, and might keep it, or change back, or dither, as adults. 3. inheritance of an estate from a maternal grandfather or relative on condition he assumed the relative's surname. 4. change of name to avoid creditors or prosecution for a crime. 5. change of name on joining the army etc against the wishes of father. 6. adopting a name which was in effect a nickname instead of a commonplace name - Smith, everybody's called Smith - I am a fowler, so i will call myself that. 7. where a marriage is illegal (to a person related within the degrees forbidden) or where it never took place, but the couple live together long-term (and the children are illegitimate and could use either name) 8, where a name is adopted as a trading name (Kaplinsky alias Copp) or acting name (Henry Irving alias Brodribb, Miss Brown alias Foljambe) -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society ==== BEDFORD Mailing List ==== For any updates our info about the status of this list go to http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com