Allan, I'm having another go. Sometimes the simplest answers are the best. If you go to Google search for Stagsden Smith. The second response should be titled Arthur Beckett 1886. If you go the bottom of the page you will find the family of James Smith and Mary Semarke. There is no son James, and the father James (Snr) died in Nov 1850. This confirms my earlier findings. So I don't think James and Mary are the parents. I suspect the parent are Thomas and Caroline and the son was either christened as Thomas or incorrectly recorded in 1845. The proof should be in 1851 Census. Peter

Hi Jean: This marriage is on the IGI: JOS CLAYSON Spouse: MARY MORETON OR MORTON Marriage: 03 MAY 1811 Harrold, Bedford, England Source Information: Batch No.: M003831 Looks like Mary's family may have moved to Harrold or she was possibly in service or living with a relative. This entry is extracted from the Harrold parish marriage register. Chris Andrew Ontario, Canada Jean Ann Palmer wrote: >Hello everyone, >Joseph CLAYSON was born in Harrold, Bedfordshire about 1792. He married Mary who was born in Weedon, Northamptonshire. Their first child Lydia was born about 1813 in Harrold according to the census. Joseph and Mary were not married in Harrold or Weedon. I have purchased the Northamptonshire Marriage index 1700 to 1837. I am willing to look up Northamptonshire marriages for anyone. > >Is there a marriage index for Bedfordshire please? And if so where can I purchase it? I would be most grateful if someone who has it would take a look for me to see where they were married. > >Unfortunately Joseph died in Harrold in 1835 before his name was on any census. > >Thank you and happy hunting to everyone, >Jean who lives in Victoria, B.C. Canada. > > >==== BEDFORD Mailing List ==== >For any updates our info about the status of this list go to >http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com > > > > >

Thank you Chris for your very speedy reply. I am most grateful. Now I can go and look for her baptism in Weedon, Nths. I was born in Northampton and my late mother-in-law lived in Weedon. Happy Hunting, Jean. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Andrew" <candrew@kingston.net> To: <BEDFORD-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 6:04 PM Subject: Re: [BDF] Joseph CLAYSON > Hi Jean: > > This marriage is on the IGI: > > JOS CLAYSON > Spouse: MARY MORETON OR MORTON > Marriage: 03 MAY 1811 Harrold, Bedford, England > Source Information: Batch No.: M003831 > > Looks like Mary's family may have moved to Harrold or she was possibly in > service or living with a relative. > This entry is extracted from the Harrold parish marriage register. > > Chris Andrew > Ontario, Canada > > Jean Ann Palmer wrote: > >>Hello everyone, >>Joseph CLAYSON was born in Harrold, Bedfordshire about 1792. He married >>Mary who was born in Weedon, Northamptonshire. Their first child Lydia >>was born about 1813 in Harrold according to the census. Joseph and Mary >>were not married in Harrold or Weedon. I have purchased the >>Northamptonshire Marriage index 1700 to 1837. I am willing to look up >>Northamptonshire marriages for anyone. >>Is there a marriage index for Bedfordshire please? And if so where can I >>purchase it? I would be most grateful if someone who has it would take a >>look for me to see where they were married. >> >>Unfortunately Joseph died in Harrold in 1835 before his name was on any >>census. >> >>Thank you and happy hunting to everyone, >>Jean who lives in Victoria, B.C. Canada. >> >> >>==== BEDFORD Mailing List ==== >>For any updates our info about the status of this list go to >>http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com >> >> >> >> > > > > ==== BEDFORD Mailing List ==== > When REPLYING to a message sent to the list decide if this is information > that all the list members would like to know about or whether it would > only be of interest to the individual you are replying to. > >

Allan, You may well be right. I've seen it happen before. But let me play Devil's Advocate. Why is it that when I do a parent search at IGI using James Smith and Mary, I get a whole series of children between 1830 - 1850 to James Smith and Mary Seagram. But the only one missing is James. And secondly, if the father died before 1845, how can you be sure from later censuses who's son he was? Do you have any idea when the parents married? I couldn't find anything on IGI or Free BMD. And of course the problem is the number of Smith possibilities. Have you found James with any siblings? Perhaps you also need to look closely at the marriage certificate. Do his age and occupation confirm anything? You don't give any information to enable further checks. There were a number of christenings records for James with father Thomas at Stagsden around this period. Which makes me wonder. No James /James combinations, but nearly half a dozen James/Thomas. I would click on Stagsden batches and try and put all the christenings into families. It's likely that Thomas and James (Snr) are brothers. I think Thomas' wife was Charlotte. Knowing James Jnr's siblings will them be a big help in ensuring that you have the right family in 1851 Census. Also look out for the possibility of Mary remarrying. It's possible that James may appear under the surname of his step father. (That I have seen) Hope this is of some help. If you want to send me details of siblings and a copy of the marriage certificate off list, I'm happy to have another look. But I don't have access to census data. Peter in Sydney

Hi everyone, I am looking for a John BURTON who married an Elizabeth and had the following children in Wilshamstead: Mary 1700 John 1702 Richard 1704 Richard 1707 George 1712 Thomas 1720 There is no sign of a baptism or marriage for John on the IGI. I have been checking out other BURTONs in Bedfordshire at this time and I came across Richard BURTON bpt.28 feb 1670 in Sandy - parents Richard and Mary. Given the names of John's children (mary first daughter and 2 Richard's) I found this very intriguing. Can anyone tell me anything about this couple/family in Sandy? Did they have a son John? Were they from Sandy? Did they stay in Sandy? Thanks so much for your time, Donna

Hello everyone, Joseph CLAYSON was born in Harrold, Bedfordshire about 1792. He married Mary who was born in Weedon, Northamptonshire. Their first child Lydia was born about 1813 in Harrold according to the census. Joseph and Mary were not married in Harrold or Weedon. I have purchased the Northamptonshire Marriage index 1700 to 1837. I am willing to look up Northamptonshire marriages for anyone. Is there a marriage index for Bedfordshire please? And if so where can I purchase it? I would be most grateful if someone who has it would take a look for me to see where they were married. Unfortunately Joseph died in Harrold in 1835 before his name was on any census. Thank you and happy hunting to everyone, Jean who lives in Victoria, B.C. Canada.

Clive Further to previous msg. If the 1811 James is correct his wife is with her previous husband in Shoreditch in 1851 with the children described as son-in-law in 1861. Bill -----Original Message----- From: clive jones [mailto:cj007g0070@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: 29 March 2006 15:07 To: BEDFORD-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [BDF] James Warren - 1851 Look Up Hi I am trying to find James Warren in 1851. In an Will dated 1861 he is described as of Bedford -Railway Station Master. I am unable to find him in the 1861 census as such, but think he is the James Warren Wid Age 61 described as a Coach Builder of 10,Bridwell Yard,Cauldwell Street,St.Mary Bedford. If anyone can find him and family (if any) in the 1851 census I would greatly appreciate a look up. Clive Jones ==== BEDFORD Mailing List ==== Go to the Bedfordshire Lookup Exchange at: http://freespace.virgin.net/m.harbach/bdf.html

Clive You might like to look at James WARREN born 1811 - in 1861 he is described as Agent and Station Master in Bedford St Mary - St Johns Street. He is still around in 1871 but I can't see him in 1851 !! Can send images if interested. Bill -----Original Message----- From: clive jones [mailto:cj007g0070@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: 29 March 2006 15:07 To: BEDFORD-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [BDF] James Warren - 1851 Look Up Hi I am trying to find James Warren in 1851. In an Will dated 1861 he is described as of Bedford -Railway Station Master. I am unable to find him in the 1861 census as such, but think he is the James Warren Wid Age 61 described as a Coach Builder of 10,Bridwell Yard,Cauldwell Street,St.Mary Bedford. If anyone can find him and family (if any) in the 1851 census I would greatly appreciate a look up. Clive Jones ==== BEDFORD Mailing List ==== Go to the Bedfordshire Lookup Exchange at: http://freespace.virgin.net/m.harbach/bdf.html

Hi I am trying to find James Warren in 1851. In an Will dated 1861 he is described as of Bedford -Railway Station Master. I am unable to find him in the 1861 census as such, but think he is the James Warren Wid Age 61 described as a Coach Builder of 10,Bridwell Yard,Cauldwell Street,St.Mary Bedford. If anyone can find him and family (if any) in the 1851 census I would greatly appreciate a look up. Clive Jones

I have not checked this site for your direct information, but there are Smith's & Seamark's mentioned at this website. http://www.cb5.co.uk/STAGSDEN1851.htm Carole

Hi Allan, I have had the same happen in my research only it was with a death. On my ancestors death instead of her name Thomasine being entered in the register, the name of her husband William was entered. Unfortunately because the error had been made at the time of her death and William instead of Thomasine had been inadvertently entered on the death record nothing can be done as there is no documentary evidence. It sounds like the problem that you have is a similar mistake. Kind regards Jacqueline ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Comley" <brian@bcomley.freeserve.co.uk> To: <BEDFORD-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 10:49 AM Subject: Re: [BDF] Thomas Smith, born Stagsden abt 1845 > Hello Allan > > Mistakes were often made. > > I have a birth certificate of a child born to my gg grandmother in 1841 > where the surnames of the parents are reversed - father is shown as David > BEECH; mother is described as Ann BEECH formerly HOPKINS, whereas the > father's name was David HOPKINS and the mother Ann HOPKINS formerly BEECH. > The Baptism record in the Parish Register confirms this. > > Regards > > Brian > > Brian Beeche Comley - Porthcawl, Glamorgan (South Wales - UK) > FHS Member: Glam; Gwent; Wilts > > All emails (in & out) scanned by Norton Anti Virus 2005 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Allan Smith" <asmith_driver@hotmail.com> > To: <BEDFORD-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 8:37 AM > Subject: [BDF] Thomas Smith, born Stagsden abt 1845 > > > > I've got a bit of a problem. > > > > My previous research led me to believe that my great grandfather (as > above) > > was the son of James Smith and Mary Seamark. > > > > Now, however, having obtained his marriage certificate, I see that his > > father is named as Thomas also. > > > > Is there a possibility that the Vicar, when he noted the marriage in his > > records, got it wrong and noted my great grandfather's own name down as > > 'Father' rather than his actual father's name (who, incidentally, if it > was > > James, was dead by that time). > > > > > snipped > > > > > ==== BEDFORD Mailing List ==== > Bedfordshire at Rootsweb > http://www.rootsweb.com/~engbdf/ > >

I've come across a lot of cases of wrong fathers' names in marriage records. Typically the groom's name is replicated, or the bride's and groom's fathers' first names are confused. (Interestingly, Thomas's name is abbreviated to Thos in the 1881 census, but at first sight looks more like Jas. and could easily be interpreted as James.) I presume that the certificate you have is for his 24 Dec 1867 marriage to Martha RIDDY in Stagsden. It would be interesting to know what father's name is shown for Thomas's later marriage to Ann BRADSHAW Mar Q 1879 in Sheffield (Vol 9c, p. 553). Terry Barcock, Director, 153 Ltd "Websites that work" www.153.co.uk Design, hosting and support for E-business and Database Applications 11 Gladstone Avenue, JOHNSTONE PA5 0RD (UK) Tel +44 (0)1505 615360 -----Original Message----- From: Allan Smith [mailto:asmith_driver@hotmail.com] Sent: 29 March 2006 08:38 To: BEDFORD-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [BDF] Thomas Smith, born Stagsden abt 1845 I've got a bit of a problem. My previous research led me to believe that my great grandfather (as above) was the son of James Smith and Mary Seamark. Now, however, having obtained his marriage certificate, I see that his father is named as Thomas also. Is there a possibility that the Vicar, when he noted the marriage in his records, got it wrong and noted my great grandfather's own name down as 'Father' rather than his actual father's name (who, incidentally, if it was James, was dead by that time). I've checked the 1871 census and found my great grandfather after he was married, and he states his place of birth as Stagsden. I've therefore checked the 1851 and 1861 censuses and the only Thomas born at the right time in Stagsden is in fact the son of James as I thought, and not Thomas as is noted on his marriage certificate. Is there anywhere I can double check, and if so, where would I need to go. Allan Smith Sheffield, England Researching:- SMITH, RIDDY, WALLINGER, WELCH & TOMKINS from Bedfordshire & Bucks (up to mid 19th century) ELMES (or ELMS) from Northants (up to mid 19th century) SMITH & DAVI(E)S from Oxfordshire & Hunts (Mid 19th century) SMITH, DAVI(E)S, WORSNOP, BAILEY, ASHMAN & WHITELEY from Sheffield (1870's onwards) ==== BEDFORD Mailing List ==== To do a search of the Bedford Archives go to http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl Enter Bedford in the box

I have run into a huge brickwall trying to figure out the family of my GGGG grandfather. His name is RICHARD WOODLAND, born 21 Jan 1798, Millbrook, Bedfordshire. He is one of 10 children, birthyears of the children are 1778 to 1800 according to the IGI. His parents names (IGI) are WILLIAM WOODLAND born 1772? and SARAH LITCHFIELD born 1766?, married 1 Nov.1777/97?(IGI) Millbrook. I found a JOHN WOODLAND and ANN, also resided in Millbrook, the birth years of their children are 1792-1804. I also found a WILLIAM WOODLAND born 1790 and ANN born 1792, also from Millbrook. their children's birthyears are 1817 to 1835?, all information from IGI and freebmd. I would like to find out if and how the JOHN and WILLIAM and WILLIAM are related. of if the IGI has the names and dates mixed up or completely wrong and the 2 Williams are one and the same person. Possibility of John and one of the William's being brothers? the childrens names according to IGI and freebmd are as follows: CHILDREN of 1772 WILLIAM: THOMAS,KITTY,WILLIAM,ELIZABETH,SARAH,MARTHA,ANN, MARY, RICHARD,SUSANNAH. CHILDREN of 1790 WILLIAM: MARY,JOHN,CATHERINE, JAMES, RICHARD, SARAH, MARTHA, THOMAS, WILLIAM CHILDREN of JOHN: MARY,JOHN, FLOWERS,PHOEBE,ANN, MARTHA. any help is appreciated. thank you marie, canada

Hello Allan Mistakes were often made. I have a birth certificate of a child born to my gg grandmother in 1841 where the surnames of the parents are reversed - father is shown as David BEECH; mother is described as Ann BEECH formerly HOPKINS, whereas the father's name was David HOPKINS and the mother Ann HOPKINS formerly BEECH. The Baptism record in the Parish Register confirms this. Regards Brian Brian Beeche Comley - Porthcawl, Glamorgan (South Wales - UK) FHS Member: Glam; Gwent; Wilts All emails (in & out) scanned by Norton Anti Virus 2005 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allan Smith" <asmith_driver@hotmail.com> To: <BEDFORD-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 8:37 AM Subject: [BDF] Thomas Smith, born Stagsden abt 1845 > I've got a bit of a problem. > > My previous research led me to believe that my great grandfather (as above) > was the son of James Smith and Mary Seamark. > > Now, however, having obtained his marriage certificate, I see that his > father is named as Thomas also. > > Is there a possibility that the Vicar, when he noted the marriage in his > records, got it wrong and noted my great grandfather's own name down as > 'Father' rather than his actual father's name (who, incidentally, if it was > James, was dead by that time). > > snipped

I've got a bit of a problem. My previous research led me to believe that my great grandfather (as above) was the son of James Smith and Mary Seamark. Now, however, having obtained his marriage certificate, I see that his father is named as Thomas also. Is there a possibility that the Vicar, when he noted the marriage in his records, got it wrong and noted my great grandfather's own name down as 'Father' rather than his actual father's name (who, incidentally, if it was James, was dead by that time). I've checked the 1871 census and found my great grandfather after he was married, and he states his place of birth as Stagsden. I've therefore checked the 1851 and 1861 censuses and the only Thomas born at the right time in Stagsden is in fact the son of James as I thought, and not Thomas as is noted on his marriage certificate. Is there anywhere I can double check, and if so, where would I need to go. Allan Smith Sheffield, England Researching:- SMITH, RIDDY, WALLINGER, WELCH & TOMKINS from Bedfordshire & Bucks (up to mid 19th century) ELMES (or ELMS) from Northants (up to mid 19th century) SMITH & DAVI(E)S from Oxfordshire & Hunts (Mid 19th century) SMITH, DAVI(E)S, WORSNOP, BAILEY, ASHMAN & WHITELEY from Sheffield (1870's onwards)

Looking for information on William Osment or Osmant born 1585. Married Sarah Pettit. They had a son Thomas born 1620. Any help would be appreciated.

A number of my BOND ancestors were buried at Harrold. Is there a list of Monumental inscriptions that can be checked to see if anyone has a gravestone? Thanks for any assistance From Kerry in Sydney, Australia

I am unsubscribing for a couple of weeks but will be back mid April. Thanks ~ Erin

Hello Patti ( and Betty) I have the burial for Martha Cox nee Simmonds, 26 June 1837 aged 26yrs (born 1811) burial at All Saints Church, Shillington, Bedfordshire. Hope that helps, thank you for the info you sent Patti - Eileen in NZ Patti Salter <ps015p6402@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: I'm resending this because it seems to have got all mixed up with the question last time, I've been having troubles with my email so thats probably why - Patti Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

Thanks for the burial Eileen. Do you have her baptism, or Robert's? Patti