Hi Sandra, Thank you for the information on the location of William FAVILL in Manchester on the date of the 1861 census. I have been following the path of "Dr Mark and his Little Men" making the assumption my grandfather continued as a member until he began his apprenticeship in 1865. As he was born in Monks Coppenhall which was where his father lived on the day of the 1851 census, I had also searched in Cheshire although on the same day he was living with his mother in Everton in Liverpool, which also added possibilities if I couldn't find him with the main group. To confuse the issue a family oral history story ( my grandmother to my cousin) said he had been adopted by a Colonel Paulson. My cousin and I had failed to find our mutual grandfather or Colonel Paulson despite many searches. The information that he was living with Joseph Poulton at 10 Regent Road in 1861 suggests that part of my grandmother's story was true, but parts were not, but it does answer the question of where he was in the census of 1861. This immediately raises many more questions that we now have to consider. Thank you for your help. At the moment I am in the process of preparing a document to send to the music critic of The Manchester Evening news who has proposed to write an article about "Dr Mark and his Little Men". Now I have a postscript to my story. John Favill. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra J Smith" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [BDF] Request for help. > Your man was visiting 10 Regent Road, Manchester on census night 1861; the > home of Joseph and Emily(?) Poulton: > William Favill Visitor 12 Scholar born Crewe, Cheshire > Ref: RG9/2940/142 Page 11 > Hope this helps > Sandra >

Images sent off list Jennie JAMES Tokoroa NZ -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Favill Sent: Monday, 31 March 2008 9:36 a.m. To: [email protected] Subject: [BDF] Request for help. My greetings to all, This is a request for help in tracing a 1861 census entry. For many years I have been trying to piece together the history of the Royal College of Music in Manchester. Not the present day one originated by Sir Charles HALLE, but certainly the first. This organization began in 1848 by a Dr Mark who had the object of taking boy orphans of musicians and boys of poor parents who had musical ability and provide each with both a general and a musical education. Food, lodging and clothing were also provided, the age range of the children being 5 to 16 years of age. When the boy reached the age of 16 a decision was taken as to his future. Those with sufficient talent could continue at the college and were given further training to become either a professional musician or a teacher of music. Alternatively for those who did not have sufficient talent or who did not wish to continue a music based profession, they were helped to obtain an apprenticeship. My grandfather was an example of the latter and in 1865 at the age of 16 he became apprenticed to a Lithographer in Manchester. To fund his operation Dr Mark formed an orchestra which toured England and Scotland giving music concerts under the name "Dr Mark and his Little Men." My grandfather was 8 years of age when he became a little man in 1857. Many of these concerts were announced or reported in "The Era" newspaper, a weekly publication devoted to the theatre, music and concert hall from 1837 until 1939. For instance for a concert given in Aberdeen on November 25, 1860 the Era reported " The precision with which the little fellows play difficult overtures etc. says much for the training they are receiving at the hands of the worthy Doctor." An idea of the ability and the standard of playing can be judged by the fact that on February 18 , 1858 "Dr Mark and his Little Men" gave a concert at Buckingham Palace. The occasion was the celebration of the 11th Wedding anniversary of Queen Victoria and Prince Albert with other members of the Royal Family in attendance. A Royal Command Performance. Dr Mark, who was born in Germany, died in January of 1868 and as I cannot trace any information that would tell me the organization continued after his death I assume that it died with him. Now to the part with which I need help. I have the census returns for Monday April 8, 1861 for 42 Bridge Street, Deansgate , Manchester, the location of the Royal College of Music, and although there are both students and staff recorded it is far from complete. Recently I have been told that on that day "Dr. Mark and his Little Men" were giving a concert in Bedford. I am hoping that a member of this group has come across the census records and could provide the information as I am also hoping that within the group in Bedford I will find my grandfather's name, William FAVILL born in Monks Coppenhall, Crewe in Cheshire. The names will, hopefully, complete my list of names of those who were members of the "Little Men" on that census day. My Grandfather, who died in 1901, played the violin in the "Little Men" orchestra. Other suggestions that might lead me to the records would be most welcome. John FAVILL, Brookfield, Wisconsin, USA The List Guidelines http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 877 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len

Your man was visiting 10 Regent Road, Manchester on census night 1861; the home of Joseph and Emily(?) Poulton: William Favill Visitor 12 Scholar born Crewe, Cheshire Ref: RG9/2940/142 Page 11 Hope this helps Sandra ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Favill" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 9:35 PM Subject: [BDF] Request for help. > My greetings to all, > This is a request for help in tracing a 1861 census entry. > > For many years I have been trying to piece together the history > of the Royal College of Music in Manchester. Not the present day one > originated by Sir Charles HALLE, but certainly the first. > This organization began in 1848 by a Dr Mark who had the object > of taking boy orphans of musicians and boys of poor parents who had > musical ability and provide each with both a general and a musical > education. Food, lodging and clothing were also provided, the age range of > the children being 5 to 16 years of age. When the boy reached the age of > 16 a decision was taken as to his future. Those with sufficient talent > could continue at the college and were given further training to become > either a professional musician or a teacher of music. Alternatively for > those who did not have sufficient talent or who did not wish to continue a > music based profession, they were helped to obtain an apprenticeship. My > grandfather was an example of the latter and in 1865 at the age of 16 he > became apprenticed to a Lithographer in Manchester. > To fund his operation Dr Mark formed an orchestra which toured > England and Scotland giving music concerts under the name "Dr Mark and his > Little Men." My grandfather was 8 years of age when he became a little man > in 1857. > Many of these concerts were announced or reported in "The Era" > newspaper, a weekly publication devoted to the theatre, music and concert > hall from 1837 until 1939. For instance for a concert given in Aberdeen on > November 25, 1860 the Era reported " The precision with which the little > fellows play difficult overtures etc. says much for the training they are > receiving at the hands of the worthy Doctor." > > An idea of the ability and the standard of playing can be > judged by the fact that on February 18 , 1858 > "Dr Mark and his Little Men" gave a concert at Buckingham Palace. The > occasion was the celebration of the 11th Wedding anniversary of Queen > Victoria and Prince Albert with other members of the Royal Family in > attendance. A Royal Command Performance. > > Dr Mark, who was born in Germany, died in January of 1868 and > as I cannot trace any information that would tell me the organization > continued after his death I assume that it died with him. > > Now to the part with which I need help. I have the census returns > for Monday April 8, 1861 for 42 Bridge Street, Deansgate , Manchester, the > location of the Royal College of Music, and although there are both > students and staff recorded it is far from complete. Recently I have been > told that on that day "Dr. Mark and his Little Men" were giving a concert > in Bedford. I am hoping that a member of this group has come across the > census records and could provide the information as I am also hoping that > within the group in Bedford I will find my grandfather's name, William > FAVILL born in Monks Coppenhall, Crewe in Cheshire. The names will, > hopefully, complete my list of names of those who were members of the > "Little Men" on that census day. My Grandfather, who died in 1901, played > the violin in the "Little Men" orchestra. > > Other suggestions that might lead me to the records would be most > welcome. > > John FAVILL, > Brookfield, Wisconsin, USA > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1349 - Release Date: > 29/03/2008 17:02 > >

My greetings to all, This is a request for help in tracing a 1861 census entry. For many years I have been trying to piece together the history of the Royal College of Music in Manchester. Not the present day one originated by Sir Charles HALLE, but certainly the first. This organization began in 1848 by a Dr Mark who had the object of taking boy orphans of musicians and boys of poor parents who had musical ability and provide each with both a general and a musical education. Food, lodging and clothing were also provided, the age range of the children being 5 to 16 years of age. When the boy reached the age of 16 a decision was taken as to his future. Those with sufficient talent could continue at the college and were given further training to become either a professional musician or a teacher of music. Alternatively for those who did not have sufficient talent or who did not wish to continue a music based profession, they were helped to obtain an apprenticeship. My grandfather was an example of the latter and in 1865 at the age of 16 he became apprenticed to a Lithographer in Manchester. To fund his operation Dr Mark formed an orchestra which toured England and Scotland giving music concerts under the name "Dr Mark and his Little Men." My grandfather was 8 years of age when he became a little man in 1857. Many of these concerts were announced or reported in "The Era" newspaper, a weekly publication devoted to the theatre, music and concert hall from 1837 until 1939. For instance for a concert given in Aberdeen on November 25, 1860 the Era reported " The precision with which the little fellows play difficult overtures etc. says much for the training they are receiving at the hands of the worthy Doctor." An idea of the ability and the standard of playing can be judged by the fact that on February 18 , 1858 "Dr Mark and his Little Men" gave a concert at Buckingham Palace. The occasion was the celebration of the 11th Wedding anniversary of Queen Victoria and Prince Albert with other members of the Royal Family in attendance. A Royal Command Performance. Dr Mark, who was born in Germany, died in January of 1868 and as I cannot trace any information that would tell me the organization continued after his death I assume that it died with him. Now to the part with which I need help. I have the census returns for Monday April 8, 1861 for 42 Bridge Street, Deansgate , Manchester, the location of the Royal College of Music, and although there are both students and staff recorded it is far from complete. Recently I have been told that on that day "Dr. Mark and his Little Men" were giving a concert in Bedford. I am hoping that a member of this group has come across the census records and could provide the information as I am also hoping that within the group in Bedford I will find my grandfather's name, William FAVILL born in Monks Coppenhall, Crewe in Cheshire. The names will, hopefully, complete my list of names of those who were members of the "Little Men" on that census day. My Grandfather, who died in 1901, played the violin in the "Little Men" orchestra. Other suggestions that might lead me to the records would be most welcome. John FAVILL, Brookfield, Wisconsin, USA

Hi Betty nice to catch up with you again! I think this is the family you are looking for: Sophia Cox c 23 Sept 1832 daughter of Jonas Cox and Mary Cox nee Bendee Jonas and Mary married 10 Jun 1817 and had the following children bapt in Maulden: Ann Cox c 25 Dec 1818 Hannah Cox c 10 Jun 1821 William Cox c 30 Oct 1825 Sophia Cox c 23 Sept 1832 Jonas Cox c 31 Aug 1794 and his parents show as William Cox and Elizabeth Thomson married 5 Aug 1776 Maulden Also shows Sophia Cox was 19yrs when she married William Sinfield 24yrs Hope that helps - regards Eileen in Wellington NZ Betty Lark <[email protected]> wrote: Hi Listers, Please can someone who may have the PRs for Maulden help me out with either of these 2 queries. Sophia COX bap. Maulden 23 Sept. 1832 is there only a Mother's name (Mary COX) please and any other remarks.? Sophia COX m.29 July 1851 Maulden William SINFIELD (so Richard SINFIELD) was a father's name given for Sophia please? Any help would be gratefully received thanks very much. Betty Lark Richmond, Nelson, NZ The List Guidelines http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

Hi Listers, Please can someone who may have the PRs for Maulden help me out with either of these 2 queries. Sophia COX bap. Maulden 23 Sept. 1832 is there only a Mother's name (Mary COX) please and any other remarks.? Sophia COX m.29 July 1851 Maulden William SINFIELD (so Richard SINFIELD) was a father's name given for Sophia please? Any help would be gratefully received thanks very much. Betty Lark Richmond, Nelson, NZ

It looks as though Sophia's mother was widow Mary Cox. In 1841 Sophia Cox 9 and William Cox 15 were in the same household as Richard and Mary Northwood both 45. There's a marriage on the IGI at Maulden of Richard Northwood and Mary Cox on 26 July 1840 David David <[email protected]> a écrit : I am pretty certain that Sophia Cox's father wasn't Jonas. The IGI only mentions a mother, Mary, and there's a burial of a Jonas Cox aged 32 at Maulden on 24 June 1826. Whether Sophia is an illegitimate daughter of widow Mary or of another Mary (if there were any other Mary's in Maulden) needs to be established. David Eileen Salmon a écrit : Hi Betty nice to catch up with you again! I think this is the family you are looking for: Sophia Cox c 23 Sept 1832 daughter of Jonas Cox and Mary Cox nee Bendee Jonas and Mary married 10 Jun 1817 and had the following children bapt in Maulden: Ann Cox c 25 Dec 1818 Hannah Cox c 10 Jun 1821 William Cox c 30 Oct 1825 Sophia Cox c 23 Sept 1832 Jonas Cox c 31 Aug 1794 and his parents show as William Cox and Elizabeth Thomson married 5 Aug 1776 Maulden Also shows Sophia Cox was 19yrs when she married William Sinfield 24yrs Hope that helps - regards Eileen in Wellington NZ Betty Lark wrote: Hi Listers, Please can someone who may have the PRs for Maulden help me out with either of these 2 queries. Sophia COX bap. Maulden 23 Sept. 1832 is there only a Mother's name (Mary COX) please and any other remarks.? Sophia COX m.29 July 1851 Maulden William SINFIELD (so Richard SINFIELD) was a father's name given for Sophia please? Any help would be gratefully received thanks very much. Betty Lark Richmond, Nelson, NZ The List Guidelines http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com The List Guidelines http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- Envoyé avec Yahoo! Mail. Plus de moyens pour rester en contact. The List Guidelines http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- Envoyé avec Yahoo! Mail. Plus de moyens pour rester en contact.

I am pretty certain that Sophia Cox's father wasn't Jonas. The IGI only mentions a mother, Mary, and there's a burial of a Jonas Cox aged 32 at Maulden on 24 June 1826. Whether Sophia is an illegitimate daughter of widow Mary or of another Mary (if there were any other Mary's in Maulden) needs to be established. David Eileen Salmon <[email protected]> a écrit : Hi Betty nice to catch up with you again! I think this is the family you are looking for: Sophia Cox c 23 Sept 1832 daughter of Jonas Cox and Mary Cox nee Bendee Jonas and Mary married 10 Jun 1817 and had the following children bapt in Maulden: Ann Cox c 25 Dec 1818 Hannah Cox c 10 Jun 1821 William Cox c 30 Oct 1825 Sophia Cox c 23 Sept 1832 Jonas Cox c 31 Aug 1794 and his parents show as William Cox and Elizabeth Thomson married 5 Aug 1776 Maulden Also shows Sophia Cox was 19yrs when she married William Sinfield 24yrs Hope that helps - regards Eileen in Wellington NZ Betty Lark wrote: Hi Listers, Please can someone who may have the PRs for Maulden help me out with either of these 2 queries. Sophia COX bap. Maulden 23 Sept. 1832 is there only a Mother's name (Mary COX) please and any other remarks.? Sophia COX m.29 July 1851 Maulden William SINFIELD (so Richard SINFIELD) was a father's name given for Sophia please? Any help would be gratefully received thanks very much. Betty Lark Richmond, Nelson, NZ The List Guidelines http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com The List Guidelines http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- Envoyé avec Yahoo! Mail. Plus de moyens pour rester en contact.

This Indenture made the (?) Day of November in the Second Year of the Reign of our Sovereign Lord George the Second by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, King Defender of the Faith, &c. Annoq; Dom. 1728 Wittnesseth That John Woolerston and Edward Emery Churchwardens of the Parish of Eaton Socon in the County of Bedford and John Goodwin Thomas Connington and Samuel Boston Overseers of the Poor of the said Parish, by and with the Consent of His Majesty's Justices of the Peace for the said County whose Names are hereunto subscribed, have put and placed, and by these Presents do put and place Robert Fitzhugh a poor Child of the said Parish, Apprentice to Thomas Connington of the said parish in the said County with him to dwell and serve from the Day of the Date of these Presents, until the said Apprentice shall accomplish his full age of One and Twenty years and then fully to be compleat and ended according to the Statute in that Case made and provided: During all which term, the said Apprentice his said Master faithfully shall serve in all lawful business, according to his Power, Wit, and Ability; and honestly, orderly, and obediently in all things demean and behave himself towards his said Master and all his during the said term. And the said Thomas Connington for himself, his Executors and Administrators, doth Covenant and Grant to and with the said Churchwardens and Overseers, and every of them, their and every of their Executors and Administrators, and their and every of their Successors for the time being, by these Presents, That the said Thomas Connington the said Apprentice in the way and business of husbandry shall teach and instruct or cause to be taught or instructed whereby to get his living And shall and will, during all the term aforesaid, find, provide and allow unto the said Apprentice, meet, competent, and sufficient Meat, Drink, and Apparel, Lodging, Washing and all other Things necessary and fit for an Apprentice. And also shall and will so provide for the said Apprentice, that he be not any way a Charge to the said Parish, or Parishioners of the same; but of and from all Charge shall and will save the said Parish and Parishioners harmless and indemnified during the said term. And at the end of the said term, shall and will make, provide, allow, and deliver unto the said Apprentice double Apparel of all sorts, good and new, (that is to say) a good new Suit for the Holy-days, and another for the Working-days. In Witness whereof, the Parties abovesaid to these present Indentures interchangeably have put their Hands and Seals the Day and Year above-written. Sealed and Delivered in the Presence of us Nicholas Livett Jno Smith We whose Names are subscribed, Justices of the Peace of the County aforesaid do hereby consent to the putting forth of the abovesaid Robert Fitzhugh Apprentice, according to the Intent and Meaning of the Indenture abovesaid. Rd Orlebar R Hillersdon Tho T Connington Memorandum the day and year within Written The within named Churchwardens and Overseers of the Poor for and in Consideration of all and Singular the agreements within mentioned and expressed to be performed and kept Have paid at the ensealing of these present Indentures unto the within named Thomas Connington the sum of Fourty Shillings (That is to say) Twenty Shillings of which is allowed for Clothing of the within named Robert Fitzhugh And the said Churchwardens and Overseers of the Poor do further promise and agree that the Successors of them for the time being shall well and truly pay or cause to be paid unto the said Thomas Connington his Executors Administrators or Assigns the further sum of Twenty Shillings a year untill the full sum of Foure pounds more (over and above the said the said sum of Fourty Shillings) shall be fully paid and discharged which will make in all the sum of six pounds being the full and whole Sum of the contract Money for the said Robert Fitzhugh's Apprenticeshipp Provided nevertheless that in case the said Robert Fitzhugh shall happen to dye before any or any part of the said Twenty Shillings a year shall become due and payable That then so much as shall not be due or payable before the Death of the said Robert Fitzhugh shall then become Void and Unpayable

Thank you so very much Eve, I knew I could rely on SKS to steer me onto the right path, now if you can tell me if there is a website such as ours for Bucks, I would be eternally grateful Brian ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 6:24 PM Subject: Re: [BDF] John Sells > On 26 Mar 2008 at 11:49, Brian and Betty Sells wrote: > >> If any of you kind souls ever come across the name John Sells or any >> variation of same during your research, please let me know. > > The name was originally Sills (son of Silvester) and as such is found > in Bucks (Chesham area) around 1600. It is never one of the > commonest names, but does continue in a modest way. Later it > mutates to Sells and moves further north, heading for the Beds > borders. > Your genealogists should have tried the variant spelling and might > have found the link then. > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

You may find this is Oakley Road - Clapham or Bromham, both Villages with roads to Oakley and both may have been near enough to Bedford for the villsges to be omitted from the addrerss. Dave Valentine -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of john partridge Sent: 27 March 2008 00:02 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BDF] 22 Oakley Road, Bedford Bill, The Bedford Archives & the Bedford Heritage Library, both have a number of Bedford Directories, but I am not sure what years they have available. You could email both thos places I expect. . However my 1939 Kellys does not list an Oakley Road in Bedford. Regards John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill and Jenny Deverell" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 11:23 PM Subject: [BDF] 22 Oakley Road, Bedford > Has any reader any idea how I might find out who was living at 22 Oakley > Road, Bedford in 1921? > > It's too late for the Historical Directories website. > > Bill > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1344 - Release Date: > 26/03/2008 08:52 > > The List Guidelines http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1345 - Release Date: 26/03/2008 18:50

Bill, The Bedford Archives & the Bedford Heritage Library, both have a number of Bedford Directories, but I am not sure what years they have available. You could email both thos places I expect. . However my 1939 Kellys does not list an Oakley Road in Bedford. Regards John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill and Jenny Deverell" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 11:23 PM Subject: [BDF] 22 Oakley Road, Bedford > Has any reader any idea how I might find out who was living at 22 Oakley > Road, Bedford in 1921? > > It's too late for the Historical Directories website. > > Bill > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1344 - Release Date: > 26/03/2008 08:52 > >

Has any reader any idea how I might find out who was living at 22 Oakley Road, Bedford in 1921? It's too late for the Historical Directories website. Bill

On 26 Mar 2008 at 11:49, Brian and Betty Sells wrote: > If any of you kind souls ever come across the name John Sells or any > variation of same during your research, please let me know. The name was originally Sills (son of Silvester) and as such is found in Bucks (Chesham area) around 1600. It is never one of the commonest names, but does continue in a modest way. Later it mutates to Sells and moves further north, heading for the Beds borders. Your genealogists should have tried the variant spelling and might have found the link then.

On 25 Mar 2008 at 20:19, Peter Booth wrote: > Would anyone know what happened to Parish Registers for Milton > Ernest > between 1812 - 1838 ? At the Bedford Archives. > > 1812 saw the commencement of the new format. Is it possible these > new > books did not survive or did not make it onto IGI? The IGI is by no means complete, and the majority of the Bedfords. registers on it were taken from an excellent transcription of the majority of parish registyers up to 1812. We are very fortunate to have such good transcripts. > > The Hugh Wallis site shows a gap from 1813-1837 and then Marriages > start > again in 1838. > > I have a copy of Banns in January 1825 for William Cox and > Charlotte > Sawford. IGI has user submissions for baptisms of their children, > albeit Charlotte's maiden name is spelt Tofford. > > If anyone had PR's, I'm wondering if it gives William's age and > parents. In 1825, it would be almost unheard of for such details to be included. (The exceptions might be a father's name for the son of the clergyman or of the local Squire, not for ordinary persons. Ages were only implied if the party was under 21, when 'minor' would usually be stated. However, if the party was just under 21 and not familiarly known to the clergyman, he or she would have been foolish to draw his attention to the fact, since a consent from the father/parent would be needed and this could delay the wedding. The best bet is to find the couple in the 1851 census, where an age and birth-place will be stated. Only if one or the other marriaed again after 1837 will the father's name be included in the new marriage certificate.

On 26 Mar 2008 at 11:49, Brian and Betty Sells wrote: > If any of you kind souls ever come across the name John Sells or any > variation of same during your research, please let me know. The name was originally Sills (son of Silvester) and as such is found in Bucks (Chesham area) around 1600. It is never one of the commonest names, but does continue in a modest way. Later it mutates to Sells and moves further north, heading for the Beds borders. Your genealogists should have tried the variant spelling and might have found the link then.

On 25 Mar 2008 at 20:19, Peter Booth wrote: > Would anyone know what happened to Parish Registers for Milton > Ernest > between 1812 - 1838 ? At the Bedford Archives. > > 1812 saw the commencement of the new format. Is it possible these > new > books did not survive or did not make it onto IGI? The IGI is by no means complete, and the majority of the Bedfords. registers on it were taken from an excellent transcription of the majority of parish registyers up to 1812. We are very fortunate to have such good transcripts. > > The Hugh Wallis site shows a gap from 1813-1837 and then Marriages > start > again in 1838. > > I have a copy of Banns in January 1825 for William Cox and > Charlotte > Sawford. IGI has user submissions for baptisms of their children, > albeit Charlotte's maiden name is spelt Tofford. > > If anyone had PR's, I'm wondering if it gives William's age and > parents. In 1825, it would be almost unheard of for such details to be included. (The exceptions might be a father's name for the son of the clergyman or of the local Squire, not for ordinary persons. Ages were only implied if the party was under 21, when 'minor' would usually be stated. However, if the party was just under 21 and not familiarly known to the clergyman, he or she would have been foolish to draw his attention to the fact, since a consent from the father/parent would be needed and this could delay the wedding. The best bet is to find the couple in the 1851 census, where an age and birth-place will be stated. Only if one or the other marriaed again after 1837 will the father's name be included in the new marriage certificate.

On 25 Mar 2008 at 19:56, Peter Booth wrote: > Would anyone know the eligibility requirements for an army pension > > around 1850? > > Would there be an age requirement, perhaps 70 and a service > requirement > of maybe 20 years or so? Would it be open to enlisted men or just > officers? Pensions for private soldiers (or 'other ranks' but not 'enlisted men') were not automatic merely for service, but only available, after application, to men who were injured or otherwise unfit for further military work because of their army service. Applications made (many in the class WO97 filed at the National Archives) detailed the man's career and the nature of his service and injuries. There is a name index to this class (made by the Friends of the PRO and available from them or at TNA) Some similar applications fall into other WO classes. Officers tended to go on half-pay when they retired from active service. Some men (single or widowed) were actually accommodated in the Cheslea Military Hospital (residental, not medical) and their details are similarly in WO97. One of these Chelsea Pensioners stated firmly that his qualification for admission (in the C20) was '17 years of undetected crime'. In fact, his career had been an exemplary and dazzling one/

On 25 Mar 2008 at 19:56, Peter Booth wrote: > Would anyone know the eligibility requirements for an army pension > > around 1850? > > Would there be an age requirement, perhaps 70 and a service > requirement > of maybe 20 years or so? Would it be open to enlisted men or just > officers? Pensions for private soldiers (or 'other ranks' but not 'enlisted men') were not automatic merely for service, but only available, after application, to men who were injured or otherwise unfit for further military work because of their army service. Applications made (many in the class WO97 filed at the National Archives) detailed the man's career and the nature of his service and injuries. There is a name index to this class (made by the Friends of the PRO and available from them or at TNA) Some similar applications fall into other WO classes. Officers tended to go on half-pay when they retired from active service. Some men (single or widowed) were actually accommodated in the Cheslea Military Hospital (residental, not medical) and their details are similarly in WO97. One of these Chelsea Pensioners stated firmly that his qualification for admission (in the C20) was '17 years of undetected crime'. In fact, his career had been an exemplary and dazzling one/

Kia Ora David Guess I'm just being pernickety about Riseley! I have a marriage 1788 and the film and the IGI gives me a first Baptism for the couple in 1791. Preceding the 1790/91 Baptisms is a note (on film) which says the 2 pages are missing - presumably 1787-89 (have no idea how many Baptisms are missing!) I have picked up Thomas born Riseley 1789 from later censii, his being a witness at his sister's marriage in 1812 and the baptism of his own first born in Riseley . I should be satisfied I suppose but it would be nice to confirm Thomas's parents by the Baptism. A 1789 Baptism fits perfectly. Now where did his father wandering Willie come from? In 1841 he was 80 and NOT from Beds! On the 1803 Militia List he was 34 putting his birth at 1769 and much closer to his wife's age at marriage in 1788. Most inconveniently he died in 1844, before leaving me a clue in 1851! IF ONLY the other Counties were as willing to share their information! I've been waiting 5 weeks for fiche to arrive at the LDS for Northamptonshire - just one village ! And that family of 19 went to several villages - almost all in Northants! Patience is a virtue! Marlene Aotearoa David wrote: > Hi Marlene/Peter > > I don't think you need to try to explain why only part of Beds post 1812 is on the IGI - they simply haven't been extracted! But many, but not all, are included on the BVRI, and of the rest most have been filmed by the LDS. Milton Ernest is one such example - extracted up to 1812 from the transcript, but post 1812 has been extracted neither to the IGI nor the BVRI. And yes, it's illogical that marriages from 1838-85 have been extracted, but that's the LDS for you. If you check the film notes for Milton Ernest there's a lot of detail as to what is on the film - you would need to check with BLARS to see if they have the marriage registers 1813-37. > > I'm just grateful that so much of Beds has been extracted. > > The IGI for Riseley is extracted from the transcript prepared by Bedford Records office, which itself was an amalgamation of the parish register and the Bishop's Transcript, so if it's in the 1789 BT it should appear on the IGI. But by all means check the BT just to make sure - it's interesting that there are no baptisms on the IGI for Riseley 1787-9 > > David > > Marlene Shipman <[email protected]> a écrit : Hi Peter > I can't explain it but I found some extras on the BVRI which are not > online. Also they're not in order on the Film Notes! I have an important > Baptism missing in Riseley 1789 and when I went through Parish Register > film there was a note on film which said 2 pages were missing from the > Parish Register - unfortunately the 2 pages I needed. > > Your query prompted me to look at Riseley again and I note BMDs are on > the Bishops Transcripts for 1789 stuck right in the middle of the 1600s!! > I guess I'll have to get the BT film in the hope I can find it! > > There was another interesting note from the person who filmed the > Register to indicate he/she had found a piece of paper in the Register > which recorded a Baptism by a new Vicar on which he noted that he had > performed a Baptism on his first day but it wasn't recorded in the > Parish Register! So the oft repeated message of go back to the most > original source possible remains true! > Human beings!!!!!!!!!!!!! > Cheers > Marlene > > > Peter Booth wrote: > >> Marlene, >> >> Good suggestion. I should have thought of that. >> >> However, after checking it doesn't seem specific enough. Even though it >> shows PR's 1538 to 1966 and BT's 1602 to 1876, there could be some gaps. If >> not, why don't they all appear on IGI? >> >> Peter >> >> >> >> >> The List Guidelines >> >> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > --------------------------------- > Envoyé avec Yahoo! Mail. > Capacité de stockage illimitée pour vos emails. > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >