Hi Marlene I think I worked out (from IGI births I think) that there was another Lewis Jordan (possibly with father Lewis) in Wangford which would account for those deaths. Madeline was Madeline Scard in 1861 Census. It just looked a straightforward family with Thomas S head, wife Ellen S and daughter Madeline S (6) + 1 servant. I had no reason to think anything other than just not being able to find a marriage about 1853/4. I had of course looked years on either side as well and should have persevered with any Thomas Scard that was mentioned as I knew there were not too many around England. As Peter said - well done Marlene! A fresh look at something I've been going around in circles for ages and look what happens! Best wishes Lyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marlene Shipman" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 7:21 PM Subject: Re: [BDF] Ellen NADEN dau of Noah NADEN > Hi > There were 2 deaths for a Lewis Jordan, 1852 and 1860 both in Wangford > District Sufffolk. No ages given at that time unfortunately . > If 1852 then you might have difficulty identifying Madeline's father. If > 1860 then you might assume he was the father. > A possibility is that Lewis disappeared about 1854/5 and Ellen had to > wait 7years (I think) before declaring him deceased and then married > Thomas. > What surname did Madeline have in 1861? > Cheers > Marlene > > Lyn Mealey wrote: >> Hi Peter >> >> Thanks for doing this checking. Yes, confirmation is good. Checking >> backwards from Noah Naden + Martha Blomfield was easy with IGI. Know a >> good >> deal about Edward Scard's family - from Hampshire (and they were wealthy) >> Edward did well for himself - became Household Surgeon to Duke of >> Cambridge >> in Kew. Ann Humphreys had been married previously to Evan Humphreys (in >> 1819 in Monmouth) and had wealth herself. Edward died 1849 (wife Ann >> died >> 1848) leaving 17yr old Eliza and 15 yr old Thomas (Thomas at boarding >> school >> in Hampshire and Eliza living with Edward's oldest brother Rev Thomas >> Scard >> in Hampshire) According to Edward's will, Thomas Scard should have been >> well off, but in 1859 he was insolvent (same year he got MRCS). >> Interestingly in Sydney, Thomas insolvent in 1869 and again in 1871 (not >> well apparently and could not work much - surgeon in Balmain - so didn't >> have a chance to recover from earlier insolvency) - insolvent when he >> died. >> >> The voyages for ThomasI knew about were 1865 Oceania, 1866 Peerless. >> Have >> looked at the Peerless 1866 record at State Records - no mention of >> Ellen, >> but I know she was here in 1867 from Insolvency papers. Madeline was >> born >> probably between July 1854 and June 1855 as in 1874 when she arrived on >> "Jerusalem" she was 19. In the Insolvency papers, Thomas talks about >> sending money back to England to his daughter, but does not say where in >> England she was. >> >> Madeline Scard apparently married Henry Baxter in Sydney 2nd or 3rd March >> 1876 (children's birth certs) They were married by Rev Dr James >> Fullerton, a >> Presbyterian minister apparently notorious for performing many marriages, >> but being slack about paperwork! >> >> After Henry Baxter died (don't know when - another mystery!) Madeline >> Baxter >> married Richard Nash in 1917 and it is from this marriage certificate >> that I >> first had Ellen's maiden name Naden (actually appears as Neden, but >> Ellen's >> death cert has father Noah Maden) - deduced Ellen Naden! >> >> The problem with death for Julia Jordan in Marylebone in March Qtr 1851 >> is >> that she would have been before the 1851 census, wouldn't she? >> >> Just noticed your further message. Yes I have seen this and probably all >> ultimately related but....when I first found this I emailed Max Scard but >> old email. After progressing quite a way with the Scards in Hampshire >> (and >> the Benness family) - many yeomen and gentlemen there too - lots of wills >> available - great stuff, I was recently contacted by Judy Adams who lives >> in >> NSW (mother a Scard). Judy is developing a website for the Scards and >> she >> has been in contact with Max Scard. Judy and I have been able to >> exchange >> info/copies of wills - helping us both. >> >> I think I've rambled on enough! >> >> Lyn >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Peter Booth" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 1:18 PM >> Subject: Re: [BDF] Ellen NADEN dau of Noah NADEN >> >> >> >>> Lyn, >>> >>> That explains a lot. Looks like you have done a great deal of work. I >>> love trying to help people but turn off when I have to look up things >>> that >>> they already know. >>> >>> I found the marriage of Noah Naden to Martha Blofield on 7/9/1814 at >>> Eaton Socon. A parent search on IGI revealed seven children baptised in >>> a >>> number of different churches and some many years after their birth. By >>> 1841, >>> four including Ellen were still at home in St Pauls, Bedford but three >>> had >>> left home. I can send the names if you don't have them but they're all >>> on >>> IGI and census. >>> >>> I also found the marriage of Edward Scard and Ann Humphries on >>> 31/7/1830 >>> at All Souls, Marylebone, London. I didn't look further for children or >>> later census. By 1841, son Edward was away at school, so no benefit from >>> census data. However, it would be worthwhile to find his parents in 1841 >>> and >>> later. If Edward became a surgeon, I'd suggest parents were well off. >>> >>> I found the marriage of Ellen Nadin to Lewis Jordan in Dec 1849 at >>> Bedford. I was on another computer and didn't have the reader for >>> original >>> census images. Do you know Lewis' birthplace and occupation from 1851 >>> census? It looks like they moved to London area shortly after 1849 >>> marriage. >>> >>> There is a Julia Jordan born Sept 1850 in Marylebone and dies in >>> March >>> 1851 in Marylebone. I'd suggest this is the daughter who is with them in >>> 1851 census. I couldn't find any death of Lewis. If 1851 shows a >>> military >>> occupation, I wonder if he died at sea or overseas? >>> >>> If so, Ellen is a widow by around 1852. Like you I couldn't find a >>> marriage to Thomas Scard or the birth of Madeline around 1854. I wonder >>> if >>> Ellen accompanied him on a voyage and they were married at sea and >>> Madeline >>> was born aboard ship? >>> >>> Have you traced all of his voyages? Perhaps you should look at >>> Australian passenger and crew lists to see if his family are listed. It >>> might show Madeline born on voyage. I see from Google a number of >>> references >>> to "Thomas Scard" including your own posts. I see he brought some child >>> immigrants in 1865 on the Peerless. It would seem logical that a woman's >>> touch might be useful on such a journey. >>> >>> I found Madeline's arrival in Sydney in 1874 via "Jerusalem". But >>> then >>> I >>> couldn't find her marriage or subsequent BDM events. Were they in NSW ?? >>> >>> To sum up, I don't know whether I've done anything other than to >>> confirm >>> what you already know. But sometimes that reinforcement helps. >>> >>> Peter >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> The List Guidelines >>> >>> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> The List Guidelines >> >> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi There were 2 deaths for a Lewis Jordan, 1852 and 1860 both in Wangford District Sufffolk. No ages given at that time unfortunately . If 1852 then you might have difficulty identifying Madeline's father. If 1860 then you might assume he was the father. A possibility is that Lewis disappeared about 1854/5 and Ellen had to wait 7years (I think) before declaring him deceased and then married Thomas. What surname did Madeline have in 1861? Cheers Marlene Lyn Mealey wrote: > Hi Peter > > Thanks for doing this checking. Yes, confirmation is good. Checking > backwards from Noah Naden + Martha Blomfield was easy with IGI. Know a good > deal about Edward Scard's family - from Hampshire (and they were wealthy) > Edward did well for himself - became Household Surgeon to Duke of Cambridge > in Kew. Ann Humphreys had been married previously to Evan Humphreys (in > 1819 in Monmouth) and had wealth herself. Edward died 1849 (wife Ann died > 1848) leaving 17yr old Eliza and 15 yr old Thomas (Thomas at boarding school > in Hampshire and Eliza living with Edward's oldest brother Rev Thomas Scard > in Hampshire) According to Edward's will, Thomas Scard should have been > well off, but in 1859 he was insolvent (same year he got MRCS). > Interestingly in Sydney, Thomas insolvent in 1869 and again in 1871 (not > well apparently and could not work much - surgeon in Balmain - so didn't > have a chance to recover from earlier insolvency) - insolvent when he died. > > The voyages for ThomasI knew about were 1865 Oceania, 1866 Peerless. Have > looked at the Peerless 1866 record at State Records - no mention of Ellen, > but I know she was here in 1867 from Insolvency papers. Madeline was born > probably between July 1854 and June 1855 as in 1874 when she arrived on > "Jerusalem" she was 19. In the Insolvency papers, Thomas talks about > sending money back to England to his daughter, but does not say where in > England she was. > > Madeline Scard apparently married Henry Baxter in Sydney 2nd or 3rd March > 1876 (children's birth certs) They were married by Rev Dr James Fullerton, a > Presbyterian minister apparently notorious for performing many marriages, > but being slack about paperwork! > > After Henry Baxter died (don't know when - another mystery!) Madeline Baxter > married Richard Nash in 1917 and it is from this marriage certificate that I > first had Ellen's maiden name Naden (actually appears as Neden, but Ellen's > death cert has father Noah Maden) - deduced Ellen Naden! > > The problem with death for Julia Jordan in Marylebone in March Qtr 1851 is > that she would have been before the 1851 census, wouldn't she? > > Just noticed your further message. Yes I have seen this and probably all > ultimately related but....when I first found this I emailed Max Scard but > old email. After progressing quite a way with the Scards in Hampshire (and > the Benness family) - many yeomen and gentlemen there too - lots of wills > available - great stuff, I was recently contacted by Judy Adams who lives in > NSW (mother a Scard). Judy is developing a website for the Scards and she > has been in contact with Max Scard. Judy and I have been able to exchange > info/copies of wills - helping us both. > > I think I've rambled on enough! > > Lyn > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Booth" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 1:18 PM > Subject: Re: [BDF] Ellen NADEN dau of Noah NADEN > > > >> Lyn, >> >> That explains a lot. Looks like you have done a great deal of work. I >> love trying to help people but turn off when I have to look up things that >> they already know. >> >> I found the marriage of Noah Naden to Martha Blofield on 7/9/1814 at >> Eaton Socon. A parent search on IGI revealed seven children baptised in a >> number of different churches and some many years after their birth. By >> 1841, >> four including Ellen were still at home in St Pauls, Bedford but three had >> left home. I can send the names if you don't have them but they're all on >> IGI and census. >> >> I also found the marriage of Edward Scard and Ann Humphries on >> 31/7/1830 >> at All Souls, Marylebone, London. I didn't look further for children or >> later census. By 1841, son Edward was away at school, so no benefit from >> census data. However, it would be worthwhile to find his parents in 1841 >> and >> later. If Edward became a surgeon, I'd suggest parents were well off. >> >> I found the marriage of Ellen Nadin to Lewis Jordan in Dec 1849 at >> Bedford. I was on another computer and didn't have the reader for original >> census images. Do you know Lewis' birthplace and occupation from 1851 >> census? It looks like they moved to London area shortly after 1849 >> marriage. >> >> There is a Julia Jordan born Sept 1850 in Marylebone and dies in March >> 1851 in Marylebone. I'd suggest this is the daughter who is with them in >> 1851 census. I couldn't find any death of Lewis. If 1851 shows a military >> occupation, I wonder if he died at sea or overseas? >> >> If so, Ellen is a widow by around 1852. Like you I couldn't find a >> marriage to Thomas Scard or the birth of Madeline around 1854. I wonder if >> Ellen accompanied him on a voyage and they were married at sea and >> Madeline >> was born aboard ship? >> >> Have you traced all of his voyages? Perhaps you should look at >> Australian passenger and crew lists to see if his family are listed. It >> might show Madeline born on voyage. I see from Google a number of >> references >> to "Thomas Scard" including your own posts. I see he brought some child >> immigrants in 1865 on the Peerless. It would seem logical that a woman's >> touch might be useful on such a journey. >> >> I found Madeline's arrival in Sydney in 1874 via "Jerusalem". But then >> I >> couldn't find her marriage or subsequent BDM events. Were they in NSW ?? >> >> To sum up, I don't know whether I've done anything other than to >> confirm >> what you already know. But sometimes that reinforcement helps. >> >> Peter >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The List Guidelines >> >> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hi Betty, My husbands family is related to the Wildmans of Flitton . Mary Ann Wildman is married to William Grundon (1846) 4 times grandfather to my husband. I will take a look at my files and email you the Wildman info i have if you like.. Best Wishes Denise > > I am hoping (perhaps that is the operative word) that I may find the > father of the groom in 1820. > > John COX m. 12 May 1820 Flitton With Silso, Bdf Mary WILDMAN do John > WILDMAN. > Who was the father of John COX he says he was born about 1796 Luton on > every census (1851-1871) > his death Dec Q. 1875 Ampthill (Denel End, Flitwick may be) age 79yrs. > > I am so grateful for any help given. > Thanks in anticipation. > Betty Lark > Richmond, Nelson, NZ > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.1.322) > Database version: 5.10110e > http://www.pctools.com/uk/spyware-doctor/ E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.1.322) Database version: 5.10130e http://www.pctools.com/uk/spyware-doctor/

Lyn / Marlene, Hold the phone !!!!! Lewis Jordan is still alive in 1861 census !!!! He has moved to Linslade in Buckinghamshire and is shown as unmarried. He is the same Lewis Jordan Coal Dealer born circa 1821 at Cople that 10 years earlier in 1851 is married with wife Ellen and daughter Julia. Is it possible that Madeline was illegitimate and Ellen had to have a seven year period of separation before she was permitted to remarry. Either that or she was forbidden to marry until after he died ( 'til death us do part ). So who was the father of Madeline? 1871 census says she was born in Bedford Town. 1861 says she was born in London. Did Ellen run off to London to hide an unexpected pregnancy? There are so many unresolved questions. Hopefully the 1862 Marriage Certificate will show if Ellen was single, divorced or widowed. But we still won't know the father of Madeline or when and where Lewis Jordan died. Perhaps it is worth looking on A2A to see if there was any petition for divorce or bastardy bond. Peter

Well unless they have told whoppers you should get a good idea from ages, occupations and perhaps witnesses. I've searched Pancras/Bedford etc using just Madeline but no luck unless of course Ellen had a baby between Lewis's demise and her marriage to Scard then you would have try all for a birth cert citing Mother's name only! I've tried Madeline/Madeleine with Jordan/ Naden and Scard! But she might have had a first name like Ellen or hergrandmother's name of course! Isn't family history fun! Cheers Marlene Lyn Mealey wrote: > Hi Marlene > > This looks VERY promising - and thrilling! I will order it straight away! > > I've spent so much time looking for this marriage - I must have seen this > one before as I thought in the beginning that Thomas Scard would be easy to > search so I know I've put in Thomas Scard with no dates - discarded > obviously because no Ellen. Did not think of doing the Pancras search - > thank you! Also until recently I didn't know Ellen's maiden name so that > would have restricted me. I'll let you know! > > Thank you > Lyn > Sydney > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marlene Shipman" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 2:23 PM > Subject: Re: [BDF] Ellen NADEN dau of Noah NADEN > > > >> Thomas SCARD married Pancras March Q 1862 1b/32*. >> (I searched between 1851 and 1865 to cover the possibility that they >> lived together before marriage and /or over the Census.) >> >> He possibly married Ellen NADEN whose name is not recorded on Free BMD >> unless you put NO NAMES just March Q to Mar Q 1862 and choose Pancras >> from the list of districts on the right hand side. Then she appears >> with a reference number that could well match 1b/32. >> >> WHY Ellen chose to marrry using her maiden name is perhaps hinted at by >> her daughter not joining them initially in Australia!! >> But I think you would be quite safe purchasing Thomas Scard's 1862 >> marriage with the proviso that the bride is Ellen Naden. >> >> * You'll note that on Thomas's entry there are two males and only >> female. You have the Qtr Year and District and if you enter those >> details with no names you can search the whole list of those who married >> in that Qtr/Year/District forthe name that is missing. OR match the ref >> numbers. >> Good luck Lyn >> Marlene >> New Zealand >> >> >> Lyn Mealey wrote: >> >>> Hi Peter >>> >>> Thanks for your interest, Peter. >>> >>> Madeline born (London -1851 census and her marriage cert ) about 1854/55 >>> (6 >>> in 1851 census) Have searched freebmd, bmd on FindmyPast - have tried >>> many >>> variations of Scard as often wrongly read as Seard or Scaid (have Starr >>> and >>> Scarr on Aus certs) - nothing! >>> >>> Her father Thomas Scard (Surgeon) obtained MRCS in 1859 whilst in the >>> army >>> (according to Royal College of Surgeons and reported in London Times) >>> however I cannot find him in Army Records (tried online and at Kew last >>> year). He came to Aust on at least 2 voyages as ship's surgeon, and in >>> 1866 >>> stayed. Ellen was here by 1867. Madeline at home in England (11 or 12 - >>> very strange!) don't know where until a domestic servant in 1871 census. >>> Madeline came to Sydney in 1874 (father Thomas died 1871, mother Ellen in >>> Balmain - married Thomas Mountsten Wright in 1880 and died in 1882). At >>> the >>> time of Thomas' death in 1871, there was an inquest at which Ellen stated >>> that "we have been married twelve years; we have one child (a girl)" - >>> this >>> makes marriage about 1859 - as mentioned before cannot find a record. >>> >>> >From IGI (tells me father Noah) and Freebmd, Ellen Naden married Lewis >>> Jordan in 1849. At baptism in 1831 Ellen in Bedford St Mary; in 1841 >>> Census >>> Ellen Naden living Bedford St Paul; in 1851 (now Ellen Jordan) her >>> birthplace given as Bedford St John; in 1861 (now Ellen Scard) birthplace >>> Bedford, Bedfordshire. On Ellen's death cert and Madeline's marriage >>> cert, >>> Ellen's birthplace just Bedford. >>> >>> No other children with Thomas, Ellen and Madeline in 1861 and no children >>> at >>> all mentioned on any of the Aust certs. In Thomas' death, the coroner >>> was >>> the informant, in Ellen's death a hospital wardsman! (even though both >>> spouses were both around) >>> >>> Hopefully, this clarifies (or muddies!) things. >>> >>> Lyn >>> Sydney >>> Aust >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Peter Booth" <[email protected]> >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:27 AM >>> Subject: Re: [BDF] Ellen NADEN dau of Noah NADEN >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Lyn, >>>> >>>> I need some more details, I'm afraid. You don't say when and where >>>> Madeline was born and you don't say how and when the family came to >>>> Australia. I'm also not sure if you use Bedford as the city or the >>>> county. >>>> Specific parish locations would help. >>>> >>>> Have you found any marriages? If Ellen was born c1831, it's highly >>>> likely she would be married by 1851. Have you compared her place of >>>> residence in 1841 with birthplace given in 1851 census. What does the >>>> 1861 >>>> entry show? >>>> >>>> Where have you looked for BDM entries?. Apart from her birth, all BDM >>>> events for Ellen are after 1837, so registration is compulsory and >>>> should >>>> be >>>> available on FreeBMD. Except for deaths, IGI for Bedfordshire has almost >>>> 99% >>>> coverage of available parish records for earlier dates. >>>> >>>> If Ellen did first marry Lewis Jordan, then what became of Julia? Are >>>> there any other children with Madeline in Kent that might give clues to >>>> a >>>> marriage date. >>>> >>>> Peter in Sydney >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The List Guidelines >>>> >>>> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> The List Guidelines >>> >>> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >> >> The List Guidelines >> >> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Lyn, Looks like a fascinating family. All those in insolvencies must have cut into your inheritance. But they certainly left plenty of records for you to follow the trail. In regard to Julia Jordan, technically you are right. If the census was taken on 30th - 31st March 1851, she would have to die almost on census night and the death be registered immediately for her to appear in both census and quarterly registrations. But who knows what happened. I feel it has to be her. But what happened to Lewis Jordan??? Hopefully when you obtain the March 1852 marriage certificate Ellen will be shown as widow. I stand to be corrected, but I think it would be usual for the bride's maiden name to be shown or at least Ellen Jordan (nee Naden). Either that or you would see her father's name which certainly has to be Noah Naden. Peter

Thomas SCARD married Pancras March Q 1862 1b/32*. (I searched between 1851 and 1865 to cover the possibility that they lived together before marriage and /or over the Census.) He possibly married Ellen NADEN whose name is not recorded on Free BMD unless you put NO NAMES just March Q to Mar Q 1862 and choose Pancras from the list of districts on the right hand side. Then she appears with a reference number that could well match 1b/32. WHY Ellen chose to marrry using her maiden name is perhaps hinted at by her daughter not joining them initially in Australia!! But I think you would be quite safe purchasing Thomas Scard's 1862 marriage with the proviso that the bride is Ellen Naden. * You'll note that on Thomas's entry there are two males and only female. You have the Qtr Year and District and if you enter those details with no names you can search the whole list of those who married in that Qtr/Year/District forthe name that is missing. OR match the ref numbers. Good luck Lyn Marlene New Zealand Lyn Mealey wrote: > Hi Peter > > Thanks for your interest, Peter. > > Madeline born (London -1851 census and her marriage cert ) about 1854/55 (6 > in 1851 census) Have searched freebmd, bmd on FindmyPast - have tried many > variations of Scard as often wrongly read as Seard or Scaid (have Starr and > Scarr on Aus certs) - nothing! > > Her father Thomas Scard (Surgeon) obtained MRCS in 1859 whilst in the army > (according to Royal College of Surgeons and reported in London Times) > however I cannot find him in Army Records (tried online and at Kew last > year). He came to Aust on at least 2 voyages as ship's surgeon, and in 1866 > stayed. Ellen was here by 1867. Madeline at home in England (11 or 12 - > very strange!) don't know where until a domestic servant in 1871 census. > Madeline came to Sydney in 1874 (father Thomas died 1871, mother Ellen in > Balmain - married Thomas Mountsten Wright in 1880 and died in 1882). At the > time of Thomas' death in 1871, there was an inquest at which Ellen stated > that "we have been married twelve years; we have one child (a girl)" - this > makes marriage about 1859 - as mentioned before cannot find a record. > > >From IGI (tells me father Noah) and Freebmd, Ellen Naden married Lewis > Jordan in 1849. At baptism in 1831 Ellen in Bedford St Mary; in 1841 Census > Ellen Naden living Bedford St Paul; in 1851 (now Ellen Jordan) her > birthplace given as Bedford St John; in 1861 (now Ellen Scard) birthplace > Bedford, Bedfordshire. On Ellen's death cert and Madeline's marriage cert, > Ellen's birthplace just Bedford. > > No other children with Thomas, Ellen and Madeline in 1861 and no children at > all mentioned on any of the Aust certs. In Thomas' death, the coroner was > the informant, in Ellen's death a hospital wardsman! (even though both > spouses were both around) > > Hopefully, this clarifies (or muddies!) things. > > Lyn > Sydney > Aust > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Booth" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:27 AM > Subject: Re: [BDF] Ellen NADEN dau of Noah NADEN > > > >> Lyn, >> >> I need some more details, I'm afraid. You don't say when and where >> Madeline was born and you don't say how and when the family came to >> Australia. I'm also not sure if you use Bedford as the city or the county. >> Specific parish locations would help. >> >> Have you found any marriages? If Ellen was born c1831, it's highly >> likely she would be married by 1851. Have you compared her place of >> residence in 1841 with birthplace given in 1851 census. What does the 1861 >> entry show? >> >> Where have you looked for BDM entries?. Apart from her birth, all BDM >> events for Ellen are after 1837, so registration is compulsory and should >> be >> available on FreeBMD. Except for deaths, IGI for Bedfordshire has almost >> 99% >> coverage of available parish records for earlier dates. >> >> If Ellen did first marry Lewis Jordan, then what became of Julia? Are >> there any other children with Madeline in Kent that might give clues to a >> marriage date. >> >> Peter in Sydney >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The List Guidelines >> >> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Marlene / Lynn, Well done Marlene !! A lesson for us all when using FreeBMD. I would advise all listers to note this example. It occurs quite regularly. In March Qtr 1862, I noted the two males and one female in the marriage records. One bride was obviously missing. If you omit all names and just search the March 1862 records for Pancras registration district they both come up. Thomas Scard shows Pancras Vol 1b Pg 32 Ellen Naden shows Pancras Vol 1b Pg 3[2 ] It looks like the non-numeric characters in the page number prevent display in a normal search. Hope all us "old dogs" can learn some new tricks to help us with our research. Peter in Sydney

Yes, family history is fun - haven't done anything I was supposed to today, but.... Name only appears everywhere as Madeline, except on one of her children's birth certs where it was Ada Madeline. Also she called her first daughter Ada Madeline, and I've tried this before. Thomas had a number of different addresses prior to 1859 (cited in 1859 Insolvency), then in 1861 they are in Bexleyheath in Kent, marriage in Pancras in 1862. Madeline born 1854/5 goodness knows where (London area somewhere) Thanks for your help! The family history 'family' is a wonderful one! Lyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marlene Shipman" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [BDF] Ellen NADEN dau of Noah NADEN > Well unless they have told whoppers you should get a good idea from > ages, occupations and perhaps witnesses. > I've searched Pancras/Bedford etc using just Madeline but no luck unless > of course Ellen had a baby between Lewis's demise and her marriage to > Scard then you would have try all for a birth cert citing Mother's name > only! > I've tried Madeline/Madeleine with Jordan/ Naden and Scard! > But she might have had a first name like Ellen or hergrandmother's name > of course! > Isn't family history fun! > Cheers > Marlene > > > Lyn Mealey wrote: >> Hi Marlene >> >> This looks VERY promising - and thrilling! I will order it straight away! >> >> I've spent so much time looking for this marriage - I must have seen this >> one before as I thought in the beginning that Thomas Scard would be easy >> to >> search so I know I've put in Thomas Scard with no dates - discarded >> obviously because no Ellen. Did not think of doing the Pancras search - >> thank you! Also until recently I didn't know Ellen's maiden name so that >> would have restricted me. I'll let you know! >> >> Thank you >> Lyn >> Sydney >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Marlene Shipman" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 2:23 PM >> Subject: Re: [BDF] Ellen NADEN dau of Noah NADEN >> >> >> >>> Thomas SCARD married Pancras March Q 1862 1b/32*. >>> (I searched between 1851 and 1865 to cover the possibility that they >>> lived together before marriage and /or over the Census.) >>> >>> He possibly married Ellen NADEN whose name is not recorded on Free BMD >>> unless you put NO NAMES just March Q to Mar Q 1862 and choose Pancras >>> from the list of districts on the right hand side. Then she appears >>> with a reference number that could well match 1b/32. >>> >>> WHY Ellen chose to marrry using her maiden name is perhaps hinted at by >>> her daughter not joining them initially in Australia!! >>> But I think you would be quite safe purchasing Thomas Scard's 1862 >>> marriage with the proviso that the bride is Ellen Naden. >>> >>> * You'll note that on Thomas's entry there are two males and only >>> female. You have the Qtr Year and District and if you enter those >>> details with no names you can search the whole list of those who married >>> in that Qtr/Year/District forthe name that is missing. OR match the ref >>> numbers. >>> Good luck Lyn >>> Marlene >>> New Zealand >>> >>> >>> Lyn Mealey wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Peter >>>> >>>> Thanks for your interest, Peter. >>>> >>>> Madeline born (London -1851 census and her marriage cert ) about >>>> 1854/55 >>>> (6 >>>> in 1851 census) Have searched freebmd, bmd on FindmyPast - have tried >>>> many >>>> variations of Scard as often wrongly read as Seard or Scaid (have Starr >>>> and >>>> Scarr on Aus certs) - nothing! >>>> >>>> Her father Thomas Scard (Surgeon) obtained MRCS in 1859 whilst in the >>>> army >>>> (according to Royal College of Surgeons and reported in London Times) >>>> however I cannot find him in Army Records (tried online and at Kew last >>>> year). He came to Aust on at least 2 voyages as ship's surgeon, and in >>>> 1866 >>>> stayed. Ellen was here by 1867. Madeline at home in England (11 or >>>> 12 - >>>> very strange!) don't know where until a domestic servant in 1871 >>>> census. >>>> Madeline came to Sydney in 1874 (father Thomas died 1871, mother Ellen >>>> in >>>> Balmain - married Thomas Mountsten Wright in 1880 and died in 1882). >>>> At >>>> the >>>> time of Thomas' death in 1871, there was an inquest at which Ellen >>>> stated >>>> that "we have been married twelve years; we have one child (a girl)" - >>>> this >>>> makes marriage about 1859 - as mentioned before cannot find a record. >>>> >>>> >From IGI (tells me father Noah) and Freebmd, Ellen Naden married Lewis >>>> Jordan in 1849. At baptism in 1831 Ellen in Bedford St Mary; in 1841 >>>> Census >>>> Ellen Naden living Bedford St Paul; in 1851 (now Ellen Jordan) her >>>> birthplace given as Bedford St John; in 1861 (now Ellen Scard) >>>> birthplace >>>> Bedford, Bedfordshire. On Ellen's death cert and Madeline's marriage >>>> cert, >>>> Ellen's birthplace just Bedford. >>>> >>>> No other children with Thomas, Ellen and Madeline in 1861 and no >>>> children >>>> at >>>> all mentioned on any of the Aust certs. In Thomas' death, the coroner >>>> was >>>> the informant, in Ellen's death a hospital wardsman! (even though both >>>> spouses were both around) >>>> >>>> Hopefully, this clarifies (or muddies!) things. >>>> >>>> Lyn >>>> Sydney >>>> Aust >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Peter Booth" <[email protected]> >>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:27 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [BDF] Ellen NADEN dau of Noah NADEN >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Lyn, >>>>> >>>>> I need some more details, I'm afraid. You don't say when and where >>>>> Madeline was born and you don't say how and when the family came to >>>>> Australia. I'm also not sure if you use Bedford as the city or the >>>>> county. >>>>> Specific parish locations would help. >>>>> >>>>> Have you found any marriages? If Ellen was born c1831, it's highly >>>>> likely she would be married by 1851. Have you compared her place of >>>>> residence in 1841 with birthplace given in 1851 census. What does the >>>>> 1861 >>>>> entry show? >>>>> >>>>> Where have you looked for BDM entries?. Apart from her birth, all >>>>> BDM >>>>> events for Ellen are after 1837, so registration is compulsory and >>>>> should >>>>> be >>>>> available on FreeBMD. Except for deaths, IGI for Bedfordshire has >>>>> almost >>>>> 99% >>>>> coverage of available parish records for earlier dates. >>>>> >>>>> If Ellen did first marry Lewis Jordan, then what became of Julia? >>>>> Are >>>>> there any other children with Madeline in Kent that might give clues >>>>> to >>>>> a >>>>> marriage date. >>>>> >>>>> Peter in Sydney >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The List Guidelines >>>>> >>>>> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The List Guidelines >>>> >>>> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> The List Guidelines >>> >>> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> The List Guidelines >> >> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello Listers, Does anyone have the PRs for Flitton with Silso please. I am hoping (perhaps that is the operative word) that I may find the father of the groom in 1820. John COX m. 12 May 1820 Flitton With Silso, Bdf Mary WILDMAN do John WILDMAN. Who was the father of John COX he says he was born about 1796 Luton on every census (1851-1871) his death Dec Q. 1875 Ampthill (Denel End, Flitwick may be) age 79yrs. I am so grateful for any help given. Thanks in anticipation. Betty Lark Richmond, Nelson, NZ

Hi Marlene This looks VERY promising - and thrilling! I will order it straight away! I've spent so much time looking for this marriage - I must have seen this one before as I thought in the beginning that Thomas Scard would be easy to search so I know I've put in Thomas Scard with no dates - discarded obviously because no Ellen. Did not think of doing the Pancras search - thank you! Also until recently I didn't know Ellen's maiden name so that would have restricted me. I'll let you know! Thank you Lyn Sydney ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marlene Shipman" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [BDF] Ellen NADEN dau of Noah NADEN > Thomas SCARD married Pancras March Q 1862 1b/32*. > (I searched between 1851 and 1865 to cover the possibility that they > lived together before marriage and /or over the Census.) > > He possibly married Ellen NADEN whose name is not recorded on Free BMD > unless you put NO NAMES just March Q to Mar Q 1862 and choose Pancras > from the list of districts on the right hand side. Then she appears > with a reference number that could well match 1b/32. > > WHY Ellen chose to marrry using her maiden name is perhaps hinted at by > her daughter not joining them initially in Australia!! > But I think you would be quite safe purchasing Thomas Scard's 1862 > marriage with the proviso that the bride is Ellen Naden. > > * You'll note that on Thomas's entry there are two males and only > female. You have the Qtr Year and District and if you enter those > details with no names you can search the whole list of those who married > in that Qtr/Year/District forthe name that is missing. OR match the ref > numbers. > Good luck Lyn > Marlene > New Zealand > > > Lyn Mealey wrote: >> Hi Peter >> >> Thanks for your interest, Peter. >> >> Madeline born (London -1851 census and her marriage cert ) about 1854/55 >> (6 >> in 1851 census) Have searched freebmd, bmd on FindmyPast - have tried >> many >> variations of Scard as often wrongly read as Seard or Scaid (have Starr >> and >> Scarr on Aus certs) - nothing! >> >> Her father Thomas Scard (Surgeon) obtained MRCS in 1859 whilst in the >> army >> (according to Royal College of Surgeons and reported in London Times) >> however I cannot find him in Army Records (tried online and at Kew last >> year). He came to Aust on at least 2 voyages as ship's surgeon, and in >> 1866 >> stayed. Ellen was here by 1867. Madeline at home in England (11 or 12 - >> very strange!) don't know where until a domestic servant in 1871 census. >> Madeline came to Sydney in 1874 (father Thomas died 1871, mother Ellen in >> Balmain - married Thomas Mountsten Wright in 1880 and died in 1882). At >> the >> time of Thomas' death in 1871, there was an inquest at which Ellen stated >> that "we have been married twelve years; we have one child (a girl)" - >> this >> makes marriage about 1859 - as mentioned before cannot find a record. >> >> >From IGI (tells me father Noah) and Freebmd, Ellen Naden married Lewis >> Jordan in 1849. At baptism in 1831 Ellen in Bedford St Mary; in 1841 >> Census >> Ellen Naden living Bedford St Paul; in 1851 (now Ellen Jordan) her >> birthplace given as Bedford St John; in 1861 (now Ellen Scard) birthplace >> Bedford, Bedfordshire. On Ellen's death cert and Madeline's marriage >> cert, >> Ellen's birthplace just Bedford. >> >> No other children with Thomas, Ellen and Madeline in 1861 and no children >> at >> all mentioned on any of the Aust certs. In Thomas' death, the coroner >> was >> the informant, in Ellen's death a hospital wardsman! (even though both >> spouses were both around) >> >> Hopefully, this clarifies (or muddies!) things. >> >> Lyn >> Sydney >> Aust >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Peter Booth" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:27 AM >> Subject: Re: [BDF] Ellen NADEN dau of Noah NADEN >> >> >> >>> Lyn, >>> >>> I need some more details, I'm afraid. You don't say when and where >>> Madeline was born and you don't say how and when the family came to >>> Australia. I'm also not sure if you use Bedford as the city or the >>> county. >>> Specific parish locations would help. >>> >>> Have you found any marriages? If Ellen was born c1831, it's highly >>> likely she would be married by 1851. Have you compared her place of >>> residence in 1841 with birthplace given in 1851 census. What does the >>> 1861 >>> entry show? >>> >>> Where have you looked for BDM entries?. Apart from her birth, all BDM >>> events for Ellen are after 1837, so registration is compulsory and >>> should >>> be >>> available on FreeBMD. Except for deaths, IGI for Bedfordshire has almost >>> 99% >>> coverage of available parish records for earlier dates. >>> >>> If Ellen did first marry Lewis Jordan, then what became of Julia? Are >>> there any other children with Madeline in Kent that might give clues to >>> a >>> marriage date. >>> >>> Peter in Sydney >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> The List Guidelines >>> >>> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> The List Guidelines >> >> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Peter Thanks for doing this checking. Yes, confirmation is good. Checking backwards from Noah Naden + Martha Blomfield was easy with IGI. Know a good deal about Edward Scard's family - from Hampshire (and they were wealthy) Edward did well for himself - became Household Surgeon to Duke of Cambridge in Kew. Ann Humphreys had been married previously to Evan Humphreys (in 1819 in Monmouth) and had wealth herself. Edward died 1849 (wife Ann died 1848) leaving 17yr old Eliza and 15 yr old Thomas (Thomas at boarding school in Hampshire and Eliza living with Edward's oldest brother Rev Thomas Scard in Hampshire) According to Edward's will, Thomas Scard should have been well off, but in 1859 he was insolvent (same year he got MRCS). Interestingly in Sydney, Thomas insolvent in 1869 and again in 1871 (not well apparently and could not work much - surgeon in Balmain - so didn't have a chance to recover from earlier insolvency) - insolvent when he died. The voyages for ThomasI knew about were 1865 Oceania, 1866 Peerless. Have looked at the Peerless 1866 record at State Records - no mention of Ellen, but I know she was here in 1867 from Insolvency papers. Madeline was born probably between July 1854 and June 1855 as in 1874 when she arrived on "Jerusalem" she was 19. In the Insolvency papers, Thomas talks about sending money back to England to his daughter, but does not say where in England she was. Madeline Scard apparently married Henry Baxter in Sydney 2nd or 3rd March 1876 (children's birth certs) They were married by Rev Dr James Fullerton, a Presbyterian minister apparently notorious for performing many marriages, but being slack about paperwork! After Henry Baxter died (don't know when - another mystery!) Madeline Baxter married Richard Nash in 1917 and it is from this marriage certificate that I first had Ellen's maiden name Naden (actually appears as Neden, but Ellen's death cert has father Noah Maden) - deduced Ellen Naden! The problem with death for Julia Jordan in Marylebone in March Qtr 1851 is that she would have been before the 1851 census, wouldn't she? Just noticed your further message. Yes I have seen this and probably all ultimately related but....when I first found this I emailed Max Scard but old email. After progressing quite a way with the Scards in Hampshire (and the Benness family) - many yeomen and gentlemen there too - lots of wills available - great stuff, I was recently contacted by Judy Adams who lives in NSW (mother a Scard). Judy is developing a website for the Scards and she has been in contact with Max Scard. Judy and I have been able to exchange info/copies of wills - helping us both. I think I've rambled on enough! Lyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Booth" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [BDF] Ellen NADEN dau of Noah NADEN > Lyn, > > That explains a lot. Looks like you have done a great deal of work. I > love trying to help people but turn off when I have to look up things that > they already know. > > I found the marriage of Noah Naden to Martha Blofield on 7/9/1814 at > Eaton Socon. A parent search on IGI revealed seven children baptised in a > number of different churches and some many years after their birth. By > 1841, > four including Ellen were still at home in St Pauls, Bedford but three had > left home. I can send the names if you don't have them but they're all on > IGI and census. > > I also found the marriage of Edward Scard and Ann Humphries on > 31/7/1830 > at All Souls, Marylebone, London. I didn't look further for children or > later census. By 1841, son Edward was away at school, so no benefit from > census data. However, it would be worthwhile to find his parents in 1841 > and > later. If Edward became a surgeon, I'd suggest parents were well off. > > I found the marriage of Ellen Nadin to Lewis Jordan in Dec 1849 at > Bedford. I was on another computer and didn't have the reader for original > census images. Do you know Lewis' birthplace and occupation from 1851 > census? It looks like they moved to London area shortly after 1849 > marriage. > > There is a Julia Jordan born Sept 1850 in Marylebone and dies in March > 1851 in Marylebone. I'd suggest this is the daughter who is with them in > 1851 census. I couldn't find any death of Lewis. If 1851 shows a military > occupation, I wonder if he died at sea or overseas? > > If so, Ellen is a widow by around 1852. Like you I couldn't find a > marriage to Thomas Scard or the birth of Madeline around 1854. I wonder if > Ellen accompanied him on a voyage and they were married at sea and > Madeline > was born aboard ship? > > Have you traced all of his voyages? Perhaps you should look at > Australian passenger and crew lists to see if his family are listed. It > might show Madeline born on voyage. I see from Google a number of > references > to "Thomas Scard" including your own posts. I see he brought some child > immigrants in 1865 on the Peerless. It would seem logical that a woman's > touch might be useful on such a journey. > > I found Madeline's arrival in Sydney in 1874 via "Jerusalem". But then > I > couldn't find her marriage or subsequent BDM events. Were they in NSW ?? > > To sum up, I don't know whether I've done anything other than to > confirm > what you already know. But sometimes that reinforcement helps. > > Peter > > > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Lyn, That explains a lot. Looks like you have done a great deal of work. I love trying to help people but turn off when I have to look up things that they already know. I found the marriage of Noah Naden to Martha Blofield on 7/9/1814 at Eaton Socon. A parent search on IGI revealed seven children baptised in a number of different churches and some many years after their birth. By 1841, four including Ellen were still at home in St Pauls, Bedford but three had left home. I can send the names if you don't have them but they're all on IGI and census. I also found the marriage of Edward Scard and Ann Humphries on 31/7/1830 at All Souls, Marylebone, London. I didn't look further for children or later census. By 1841, son Edward was away at school, so no benefit from census data. However, it would be worthwhile to find his parents in 1841 and later. If Edward became a surgeon, I'd suggest parents were well off. I found the marriage of Ellen Nadin to Lewis Jordan in Dec 1849 at Bedford. I was on another computer and didn't have the reader for original census images. Do you know Lewis' birthplace and occupation from 1851 census? It looks like they moved to London area shortly after 1849 marriage. There is a Julia Jordan born Sept 1850 in Marylebone and dies in March 1851 in Marylebone. I'd suggest this is the daughter who is with them in 1851 census. I couldn't find any death of Lewis. If 1851 shows a military occupation, I wonder if he died at sea or overseas? If so, Ellen is a widow by around 1852. Like you I couldn't find a marriage to Thomas Scard or the birth of Madeline around 1854. I wonder if Ellen accompanied him on a voyage and they were married at sea and Madeline was born aboard ship? Have you traced all of his voyages? Perhaps you should look at Australian passenger and crew lists to see if his family are listed. It might show Madeline born on voyage. I see from Google a number of references to "Thomas Scard" including your own posts. I see he brought some child immigrants in 1865 on the Peerless. It would seem logical that a woman's touch might be useful on such a journey. I found Madeline's arrival in Sydney in 1874 via "Jerusalem". But then I couldn't find her marriage or subsequent BDM events. Were they in NSW ?? To sum up, I don't know whether I've done anything other than to confirm what you already know. But sometimes that reinforcement helps. Peter

This may be a total red herring, and no connection whatsoever, but it occurred to me that firstly the surname of NADEN has obviously been mispronounced and attained assorted spellings, and secondly that the Christian name Madeline (or its other variant) was not that abundant. So I fed just the name Madeline into the freeBMD and went through the various quarters from 1854 to 1856 looking for a surname that might sound like NADEN: Madeline Harris NATHAN Sep 1855 Stepney 1c 456 I suggest you don't try this with an Elizabeth or Mary! Regards Richard -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Peter Booth Sent: 26 June 2008 11:19 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BDF] Ellen NADEN dau of Noah NADEN Lyn / Marlene, Hold the phone !!!!! Lewis Jordan is still alive in 1861 census !!!! He has moved to Linslade in Buckinghamshire and is shown as unmarried. He is the same Lewis Jordan Coal Dealer born circa 1821 at Cople that 10 years earlier in 1851 is married with wife Ellen and daughter Julia. Is it possible that Madeline was illegitimate and Ellen had to have a seven year period of separation before she was permitted to remarry. Either that or she was forbidden to marry until after he died ( 'til death us do part ). So who was the father of Madeline? 1871 census says she was born in Bedford Town. 1861 says she was born in London. Did Ellen run off to London to hide an unexpected pregnancy? There are so many unresolved questions. Hopefully the 1862 Marriage Certificate will show if Ellen was single, divorced or widowed. But we still won't know the father of Madeline or when and where Lewis Jordan died. Perhaps it is worth looking on A2A to see if there was any petition for divorce or bastardy bond. Peter The List Guidelines http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Peter Thanks for your interest, Peter. Madeline born (London -1851 census and her marriage cert ) about 1854/55 (6 in 1851 census) Have searched freebmd, bmd on FindmyPast - have tried many variations of Scard as often wrongly read as Seard or Scaid (have Starr and Scarr on Aus certs) - nothing! Her father Thomas Scard (Surgeon) obtained MRCS in 1859 whilst in the army (according to Royal College of Surgeons and reported in London Times) however I cannot find him in Army Records (tried online and at Kew last year). He came to Aust on at least 2 voyages as ship's surgeon, and in 1866 stayed. Ellen was here by 1867. Madeline at home in England (11 or 12 - very strange!) don't know where until a domestic servant in 1871 census. Madeline came to Sydney in 1874 (father Thomas died 1871, mother Ellen in Balmain - married Thomas Mountsten Wright in 1880 and died in 1882). At the time of Thomas' death in 1871, there was an inquest at which Ellen stated that "we have been married twelve years; we have one child (a girl)" - this makes marriage about 1859 - as mentioned before cannot find a record. >From IGI (tells me father Noah) and Freebmd, Ellen Naden married Lewis Jordan in 1849. At baptism in 1831 Ellen in Bedford St Mary; in 1841 Census Ellen Naden living Bedford St Paul; in 1851 (now Ellen Jordan) her birthplace given as Bedford St John; in 1861 (now Ellen Scard) birthplace Bedford, Bedfordshire. On Ellen's death cert and Madeline's marriage cert, Ellen's birthplace just Bedford. No other children with Thomas, Ellen and Madeline in 1861 and no children at all mentioned on any of the Aust certs. In Thomas' death, the coroner was the informant, in Ellen's death a hospital wardsman! (even though both spouses were both around) Hopefully, this clarifies (or muddies!) things. Lyn Sydney Aust ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Booth" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:27 AM Subject: Re: [BDF] Ellen NADEN dau of Noah NADEN > Lyn, > > I need some more details, I'm afraid. You don't say when and where > Madeline was born and you don't say how and when the family came to > Australia. I'm also not sure if you use Bedford as the city or the county. > Specific parish locations would help. > > Have you found any marriages? If Ellen was born c1831, it's highly > likely she would be married by 1851. Have you compared her place of > residence in 1841 with birthplace given in 1851 census. What does the 1861 > entry show? > > Where have you looked for BDM entries?. Apart from her birth, all BDM > events for Ellen are after 1837, so registration is compulsory and should > be > available on FreeBMD. Except for deaths, IGI for Bedfordshire has almost > 99% > coverage of available parish records for earlier dates. > > If Ellen did first marry Lewis Jordan, then what became of Julia? Are > there any other children with Madeline in Kent that might give clues to a > marriage date. > > Peter in Sydney > > > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Just because a Certificate is a Legal Document it doesn't automatically mean that all the information it contains is true... It shows what the Informant[s] told the Registrar - OK there were penalties if by some mischance they were Found Out, but the vast majority weren't. [Like most speeding motorists escape scot-free...] Gus ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 11:34 AM Subject: Re: [BDF] Ellen NADEN dau of Noah NADEN She wouldn't have been the first to have shot off down to London, leaving a husband behind, and committing bigamy . Perhaps that's why she married under her maiden name. Bet the marriage cert says single! David

She wouldn't have been the first to have shot off down to London, leaving a husband behind, and committing bigamy . Perhaps that's why she married under her maiden name. Bet the marriage cert says single! David --- En date de : Jeu 26.6.08, Peter Booth <[email protected]> a écrit : > De: Peter Booth <[email protected]> > Objet: Re: [BDF] Ellen NADEN dau of Noah NADEN > À: [email protected] > Date: Jeudi 26 Juin 2008, 12h19 > Lyn / Marlene, > > Hold the phone !!!!! > > Lewis Jordan is still alive in 1861 census !!!! He has > moved to > Linslade in Buckinghamshire and is shown as unmarried. > > He is the same Lewis Jordan Coal Dealer born circa 1821 > at Cople that 10 > years earlier in 1851 is married with wife Ellen and > daughter Julia. > > Is it possible that Madeline was illegitimate and Ellen > had to have a > seven year period of separation before she was permitted to > remarry. Either > that or she was forbidden to marry until after he died ( > 'til death us do > part ). > > So who was the father of Madeline? 1871 census says she > was born in > Bedford Town. 1861 says she was born in London. Did Ellen > run off to London > to hide an unexpected pregnancy? > > There are so many unresolved questions. Hopefully > the 1862 Marriage > Certificate will show if Ellen was single, divorced or > widowed. But we still > won't know the father of Madeline or when and where > Lewis Jordan died. > > Perhaps it is worth looking on A2A to see if there was > any petition for > divorce or bastardy bond. > > Peter > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message _____________________________________________________________________________ Envoyez avec Yahoo! Mail. Une boite mail plus intelligente http://mail.yahoo.fr

Lyn, I need some more details, I'm afraid. You don't say when and where Madeline was born and you don't say how and when the family came to Australia. I'm also not sure if you use Bedford as the city or the county. Specific parish locations would help. Have you found any marriages? If Ellen was born c1831, it's highly likely she would be married by 1851. Have you compared her place of residence in 1841 with birthplace given in 1851 census. What does the 1861 entry show? Where have you looked for BDM entries?. Apart from her birth, all BDM events for Ellen are after 1837, so registration is compulsory and should be available on FreeBMD. Except for deaths, IGI for Bedfordshire has almost 99% coverage of available parish records for earlier dates. If Ellen did first marry Lewis Jordan, then what became of Julia? Are there any other children with Madeline in Kent that might give clues to a marriage date. Peter in Sydney

I am new to this list and wonder if anyone can help me please - Facts I know from certificates - My g grandmother was Madeline SCARD. Her parents (though no birth cert) -- My gg grandmother Ellen NADEN, my gg grandfather Thomas SCARD. Ellen was born in Bedford about 1831 and died in Australia in 1882. Her father was Noah NADEN I found Ellen NADEN (9) in Bedford in 1841 census with father Noah, mother Martha. (the only Ellen in Bedford). I'm assuming she is 'mine' However an Ellen NADEN (father Noah) married Lewis JORDAN in Bedford in 1849. They are living in Bedford with dau Julia (6 months) in 1851. I can find no death of Lewis JORDAN or Julia JORDAN (there are JORDAN deaths in other areas). My problem is that I've never been able to find a marriage of Ellen to Thomas SCARD but they and dau Madeline are in Bexleyheath Kent in 1861 census. My dilemma - Ellen NADEN = Ellen JORDAN = Ellen SCARD ????? How/when? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Lyn Sydney Aust

Hi Lyn: This might be the birth you are looking for England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index: 1837-1983 Name: Madelina Jordan Year of Registration: 1854 Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep District: Bedford County: Bedfordshire Volume: 3b Page: 289 Chris Andrew Ontario, Canada