I'll let you know if I "sniff " a possible connection! Cheers Marlene Lyn Mealey wrote: > Hi Marlene > > Surely 'tis a small world! > > Best wishes from 'across the ditch' > Lyn > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marlene Shipman" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 8:30 PM > Subject: Re: [BDF] Ellen NADEN dau of Noah NADEN > > > >> Hi Lyn >> It's a small world! I have just had contact from a Fairey descendant and >> she married circa 1960-70s (not sure yet!) to a NADEN! >> Just proves "you never know" with whom you are dealing with! >> Cheers Cuzzie!?!? >> Marlene >> New Zealand >> >> Lyn Mealey wrote: >> >>> Yes this is the one to go with - the other, Madeline Jourdain, I found is >>> no >>> good as she died at 6 months or so. >>> Lyn >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Marlene Shipman" <[email protected]> >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:33 PM >>> Subject: Re: [BDF] Ellen NADEN dau of Noah NADEN >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Now that fits much better! Right name, right time frame, right area and >>>> she is legit! I'm sure Lyn will be delighted with this one! >>>> Cheers >>>> Marlene ;-) >>>> >>>> Chris Andrew wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi Lyn: >>>>> >>>>> This might be the birth you are looking for >>>>> >>>>> England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index: 1837-1983 >>>>> Name: Madelina Jordan >>>>> Year of Registration: 1854 >>>>> Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep >>>>> District: Bedford >>>>> County: Bedfordshire >>>>> Volume: 3b >>>>> Page: 289 >>>>> >>>>> Chris Andrew >>>>> Ontario, Canada >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The List Guidelines >>>>> >>>>> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> The List Guidelines >>>> >>>> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> The List Guidelines >>> >>> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >> >> The List Guidelines >> >> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

James Atwater Born 4 Nov. 1774 in Stepney, son of John & Mary Atwater entered Navy 29 Jan 1793 onboard AUDACIOUS,74 guns,being rated Ordinary Seaman; present at actions with the French fleet 28 May 1794 and 13 July 1795. In 1797 transferred to SYLPH, 18 guns, and took part in the destruction of the French frigate Calliope 17 July 1797.Took part in an attack on French convoy at the entrance of the Sable d'Olonne when Sylph had 2 men killed and 4 wounded. Assisted at the capture a few days later of five French coasting vessels and the destruction of 'le Petit Diable' a French cutter of 18 guns. IN Nov. 1798 given command of a prize to take back to Plymouth, but was taken prisoner when the prize was re-captured - spent eleven months as a prisoner of war. On release he rejoined the Sylph. In July 1801 transferred to the VILLE DE PARIS, 110 guns, flagship of Vice Admiral Cornwallis. Promoted Lieutenant 16 April 1802. Apppointed to the METEOR bomb vessel in Jan. 1804 and served at the bombardment of Havre de Grace and Boulogne. Later deployed to the Mediterranean, took part in an attack on batteries and gunboats in the Bay of Naples. In Nov. 1809 appointed to the HOUND bomb, in the North Sea and in Feb. 1810 to the NAMUR, 74 guns, flagship of the Admiral at the Nore. He left the Namur in August 1814 and received no further appointments. He was placed on the Retired List with the rank of Commander 25 January 1830. He died 20 April 1847. He married Mary Anne Chick at St. Mary's, Lewisham 11 Sept. 1802 and had four children, one son, three daughters. (sources: O'Byrnes Naval Biography & Marione's Complete Navy List for the Napoleonic Wars) >From David Found in the archives Carole ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diana Lea" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 5:38 PM Subject: [BDF] ATWATER > Greetings! > > I have a JAMES ATWATER baptised at St. Mary, Whitechapel in 1774 > to parents JOHN & MARY. Having found no other entries in that parish > under > the name of Atwater, I do not know where John and Mary came from and am > now > clutching at straws in the hope that they may have come from Bedfordshire. > > Are there any Atwater researchers out there who might have a marriage > between a John Atwater and Mary ?? that would tie in with this couple and > the birth of this child? > > Many thanks, Dee > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Lyn It's a small world! I have just had contact from a Fairey descendant and she married circa 1960-70s (not sure yet!) to a NADEN! Just proves "you never know" with whom you are dealing with! Cheers Cuzzie!?!? Marlene New Zealand Lyn Mealey wrote: > Yes this is the one to go with - the other, Madeline Jourdain, I found is no > good as she died at 6 months or so. > Lyn > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marlene Shipman" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:33 PM > Subject: Re: [BDF] Ellen NADEN dau of Noah NADEN > > > >> Now that fits much better! Right name, right time frame, right area and >> she is legit! I'm sure Lyn will be delighted with this one! >> Cheers >> Marlene ;-) >> >> Chris Andrew wrote: >> >>> Hi Lyn: >>> >>> This might be the birth you are looking for >>> >>> England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index: 1837-1983 >>> Name: Madelina Jordan >>> Year of Registration: 1854 >>> Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep >>> District: Bedford >>> County: Bedfordshire >>> Volume: 3b >>> Page: 289 >>> >>> Chris Andrew >>> Ontario, Canada >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> The List Guidelines >>> >>> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >> >> The List Guidelines >> >> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Thanks, Marlene. Would be great if you found something! I don't think it is a hugely common name. Although in my 1841 census searching, I did come across another Ellen Naden with father Noah in another county - perhaps they were related and Noah and Ellen were both 'family names'. Best wishes in your searching Lyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marlene Shipman" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 9:11 PM Subject: Re: [BDF] Ellen NADEN dau of Noah NADEN > I'll let you know if I "sniff " a possible connection! > Cheers > Marlene > > Lyn Mealey wrote: >> Hi Marlene >> >> Surely 'tis a small world! >> >> Best wishes from 'across the ditch' >> Lyn >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Marlene Shipman" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 8:30 PM >> Subject: Re: [BDF] Ellen NADEN dau of Noah NADEN >> >> >> >>> Hi Lyn >>> It's a small world! I have just had contact from a Fairey descendant and >>> she married circa 1960-70s (not sure yet!) to a NADEN! >>> Just proves "you never know" with whom you are dealing with! >>> Cheers Cuzzie!?!? >>> Marlene >>> New Zealand >>> >>> Lyn Mealey wrote: >>> >>>> Yes this is the one to go with - the other, Madeline Jourdain, I found >>>> is >>>> no >>>> good as she died at 6 months or so. >>>> Lyn >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Marlene Shipman" <[email protected]> >>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:33 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [BDF] Ellen NADEN dau of Noah NADEN >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Now that fits much better! Right name, right time frame, right area >>>>> and >>>>> she is legit! I'm sure Lyn will be delighted with this one! >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Marlene ;-) >>>>> >>>>> Chris Andrew wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Lyn: >>>>>> >>>>>> This might be the birth you are looking for >>>>>> >>>>>> England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index: 1837-1983 >>>>>> Name: Madelina Jordan >>>>>> Year of Registration: 1854 >>>>>> Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep >>>>>> District: Bedford >>>>>> County: Bedfordshire >>>>>> Volume: 3b >>>>>> Page: 289 >>>>>> >>>>>> Chris Andrew >>>>>> Ontario, Canada >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The List Guidelines >>>>>> >>>>>> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> The List Guidelines >>>>> >>>>> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The List Guidelines >>>> >>>> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> The List Guidelines >>> >>> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> The List Guidelines >> >> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Marlene Surely 'tis a small world! Best wishes from 'across the ditch' Lyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marlene Shipman" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 8:30 PM Subject: Re: [BDF] Ellen NADEN dau of Noah NADEN > Hi Lyn > It's a small world! I have just had contact from a Fairey descendant and > she married circa 1960-70s (not sure yet!) to a NADEN! > Just proves "you never know" with whom you are dealing with! > Cheers Cuzzie!?!? > Marlene > New Zealand > > Lyn Mealey wrote: >> Yes this is the one to go with - the other, Madeline Jourdain, I found is >> no >> good as she died at 6 months or so. >> Lyn >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Marlene Shipman" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:33 PM >> Subject: Re: [BDF] Ellen NADEN dau of Noah NADEN >> >> >> >>> Now that fits much better! Right name, right time frame, right area and >>> she is legit! I'm sure Lyn will be delighted with this one! >>> Cheers >>> Marlene ;-) >>> >>> Chris Andrew wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Lyn: >>>> >>>> This might be the birth you are looking for >>>> >>>> England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index: 1837-1983 >>>> Name: Madelina Jordan >>>> Year of Registration: 1854 >>>> Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep >>>> District: Bedford >>>> County: Bedfordshire >>>> Volume: 3b >>>> Page: 289 >>>> >>>> Chris Andrew >>>> Ontario, Canada >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The List Guidelines >>>> >>>> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> The List Guidelines >>> >>> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> The List Guidelines >> >> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Greetings! I have a JAMES ATWATER baptised at St. Mary, Whitechapel in 1774 to parents JOHN & MARY. Having found no other entries in that parish under the name of Atwater, I do not know where John and Mary came from and am now clutching at straws in the hope that they may have come from Bedfordshire. Are there any Atwater researchers out there who might have a marriage between a John Atwater and Mary ?? that would tie in with this couple and the birth of this child? Many thanks, Dee

The NBI shows no Atwater burials in Beds. The IGI shows no extracted entries for Atwater in Beds, and bear in mind that virtually all baptisms and marriages in Beds pre 1812 have been extracted onto the IGI. Why do you think they may have come from Beds? David --- En date de : Dim 29.6.08, Diana Lea <[email protected]> a écrit : > De: Diana Lea <[email protected]> > Objet: [BDF] ATWATER > À: [email protected] > Date: Dimanche 29 Juin 2008, 9h38 > Greetings! > > I have a JAMES ATWATER baptised at St. Mary, Whitechapel in > 1774 > to parents JOHN & MARY. Having found no other entries > in that parish under > the name of Atwater, I do not know where John and Mary came > from and am now > clutching at straws in the hope that they may have come > from Bedfordshire. > > Are there any Atwater researchers out there who might have > a marriage > between a John Atwater and Mary ?? that would tie in with > this couple and > the birth of this child? > > Many thanks, Dee > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message _____________________________________________________________________________ Envoyez avec Yahoo! Mail. Une boite mail plus intelligente http://mail.yahoo.fr

Pete, It may have been a long message but it was certainly great not to have to go looking for additional data. Well Done. Unfortunately I'm a bit pressed for time today. But I did find a couple of things that seem worthy of follow up. I would certainly chase up that marriage certificate. You might also check if there is a parish record for it as well. Looking at 1871 census, the mother Caroline was obviously widowed when she married Daniel Elston. I found that marriage in Sept qtr 1870. But she already had 6 children. I found a Caroline / Tufnell marriage in sep 1858 at Royston between Daniel Tufnell and Caroline Birch. There is also a death of Daniel Tufnell in Mar 1864 at Hitchin. Although the locations are varied, the date coincides pretty closely with the birth of their youngest child. Perhaps Caroline was pregnant when he died. I then tried everything to find them in 1861 census with no result. After a number of variant searches, I tried just given names of Caroline and Daniel and came up with the following. 1861 Census Southwark Daniel DAVIS Head 29 Caroline DAVIS Wife 24 b Luton Charles INGRAM Son 4 b Lambeth Anne INGRAM Dau 2 b Southwark Alice INGRAM Dau 6m b Southwark Don't ask me why children have a different surname. Perhaps it is just co-incidence that the age and birthplace of Caroline and the given names and ages of the children all match your 1871 Tuffnell family. And you also have the DAVIS surname??? I don't understand why. It will need to be followed though. It could be a clue or just a red herring. See if you can find alternative possibilities in 1861 census. Sorry I don't have more time. Peter

Thanks for the reply Wendy, No I haven't yet but its a good suggestion. I thought that I might be missing something obvious (or maybe not so obvious!) at first. Two marriages might suggest why some of the childrens birth dates are so tight to the estimated marriage date. I'll see what comes up in the next week or so and if nothing surfaces I think ordering that certificate is the next step. Kind regards Pete On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:06:42 +0100, Wendy Settle <[email protected]> wrote: > Have you ordered the marriage certificate of William & Annie dated in 1879?, It should list her father's name or a formerly name. Could be that she was married before and even pregnant before they got married if Emily is their child who was born 6 months before the wedding. > > Wndy >

Hello List. :-) This is my first post to this list. I've been tracing the CREW family tree and become 'stuck' with the marriage of my g.g. grandfather William CREW born c1862. I've chronologically listed all the information I've accumulated to date, below, along with its source. The TUFFIELD birth is present as a possible. I quite agree with a previous comment to include what information you've already seen from the outset. Making some assumptions based on the children's ages I've been looking for a Luton marriage c1878- c1880. I don't know for certain that Emily and Ada were 'our' family but Robert and Alfred certainly are. The names Elizabeth, Emily, May (or Mary) and Agnes (or Ada) were recalled by one of our few living relatives along with Alfred and Robert. I've included the census returns as it ties in a number of things quite nicely. In terms of where I've looked; FreeBMD, familysearch.org and ancestry.co.uk. I've been following the discussion on Ellen Naden with interest and have tried to apply the wider ranging search technique to locating maybe a 'missing' marriage but alas to no result. MY QUESTION: Is it possible that Annie Elizabeth DAVIS and Annie Elizabeth TUFNELL are one and the same person? If so, can anybody suggest a reason for this? Can anybody see anything I've missed? Kind regards Pete FreeBMD Annie Elizabeth TUFNELL Births JunQ 1859 in St Saviour Southwark Vol 1d Pg1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ FreeBMD Annie Elizabeth DAVIS Births JunQ 1860 Camberwell Vol 1d Pg 478 (similar reg district to St Saviour Southwark) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FreeBMD Ann Elizabeth TUFFIELD Births DecQ 1860 Greenwich Vol 1d Pg 646 (*seen note at bottom) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- FreeBMD William CREW Births MarQ 1862 Luton Vol 3b Pg 425 ----------------------------------------------------------- 1871 England Census Street address: 65 New Town St Civil Parish:Luton, Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Town: Luton County: Bedfordshire, Country: England Reg district: Luton, Sub reg district: Luton ED, institution, or vessel: 17, Household schedule number:30 Household Members: Name, relation, Age, status,Occ,birthplace,birthyear. Caroline ELSTON wife, 34, married,hat sewer, Luton Beds, c1837 Daniel ELSTON head, 46, married,46,labourer, Hemel Hempstead Herts, c1825 Alfred TUFFNELL Son, 6, scholar,london, c1865 Alice TUFFNELL Dau, 10, hat sewer,London, c1861 Annie TUFFNELL Dau, 12, hat sewer, London, c1859 Caroline TUFFNELL Dau, 1, none,London, c1870 Charles Jas TUFFNELL Son, 14, labourer,London,c1857 Daniel TUFFNELL Son, 8, Scholar,London, c1863 ---------------------------------------------------- Emily May CREW born DecQ 1878 Luton Vol 3b Pg 434 ---------------------------------------------------- IGI marriages dated 02 JUN 1879 Saint Mary, Luton, Bedford, England William CREW (aged 18, making his birth year c1861) marries Annie Elizabeth DAVIS (aged20, making her birth year c1859) ------------------------------------------------------- Ada CREW born MarQ 1880 Luton 3b Pg 434 ---------------------------------------------------- 1881 census from IGI William CREW Head M Male 20 Luton, Bedford, Road Labourer Annie CREW Wife M Female 21 London, London, Middlesex, England, Straw Hat Machinist Emily CREW Dau Female 3 Luton, Bedford, England, Scholar Ada CREW Dau Female 1 Luton, Bedford, England, Scholar Daniel TUFFNELL Brother# U Male 18 London N, London, Middlesex, England Bricklayers Labourer # = probably should should be 'brother in law' Source Information: Dwelling: 4 Lee Road Census Place: Luton, Bedford, England Family History Library Film: 1341394. Public Records Office Reference: RG11. Piece / Folio: 1651 / 37. Page Number: 19 ----------------------------------------- Elizabeth CREW born c1883 (going by 1891 census) but couldn't find record on FreeBMD, IGI or ancestry. ------------------------------------- From Alfred CREW birth cert: born 28 March 1886 at 74 Sea Road, Luton. Mother "Annie elizabeth CREW" maiden name ‘TUFNELL’ Father "William CREW". Occupation:general labourer ------------------------------------- 1891 England Census Street address: 43 Willoughby St, West Derby, Liverpool. Civil Parish:West Derby, Ecclesiastical parish: St Catherine County:Lancashire Reg district: West Derby, Sub reg district: West Derby (Municipal) ED, institution, or vessel: 34 Household Members: Name Age, Status, birth year, birth place. William CREW 31 Head, Married, b. c1860 in Luton, Bedfordshire Annie CREW 32 Wife, Married, b. c1859 in London. Emily CREW 14 Daughter, single, b. c1877 in Luton, Bedfordshire Ada CREW 13 Daughter, single, b. c1878 in Luton, Bedfordshire Elizabeth CREW 8 Daughter, single, b. c1883 in Luton, Bedfordshire Alfred CREW 5 Son, single, b. c1886 in Luton, Bedfordshire --------------------------------------- From Robert CREW birth cert: Born 1 Aug 1894 at 34 Vulcan St Garston, Liverpool. Mother "Annie elizabeth CREW" maiden name ‘TUFNELL’ Father "William CREW". Occupation: dock labourer. --------------------------------------- Ann Elizabeth Crew born SepQ 1896, West Derby, Liverpool Vol 8b Pg 65 --------------------------------------------- From William CREW death cert: Died 23 Dec 1899 of pneumonia aged 38 at 20 Hughes St, Garston, Liverpool. leaves widow 'Annie Elizabeth CREW'. His Occupation:Dock labourer. FreeBMD Deaths DecQ 1899 William CREW West Derby, Liverpool Vol 8b Pg 486 Aged 38. This would make his birth year c1861 --------------------------- 1901 census, The only Robert CREW in Lancs in the 1901 census. Civil Parish:Garston Ecclesiastical parish:St Michael County:Lancashire Street address:72 Vulcan St. Registration district: West Derby Sub registration district:Wavertree ED, institution, or vessel:30 Household schedule number:284 Household Members: Name Age. Relation,birthyear,birthplace. Annie Eliza Crew 43 Widow, boarder b. c1858 in ‘Lintin’, Beds Annie Eliza Crew 4 boarder b. c1897 in Garston, Lancs Robert Crew 6 boarder b. c1895 in Garston, Lancs Elsie I Thomas 5 Daughter Hugh Thomas 46 head Hugh Herbert Thomas 3 Son Laura M Thomas 7 Daughter Mary C Thomas 41 Wife William E Thomas 8 Son ------------------------------------- Possible death record for Annie. Deaths DecQ 1909 Nottingham Vol 7b Pg 233 Ann Elizabeth CREW aged 48. This would make her birth year c1861. --------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------- From Mar1840 to Dec1900 there's only one female TUFNELL married and thats Alice in SepQ 1882. Searching for marriages using the surname 'TUFF*' Start date:Mar 1874 End date:Dec 1880 District:Luton only produces two non-matches. Searching for any 'CREW' marriages from Mar 1870 to Dec 1895 only produces one 'William' and that's the marriage of William CREW to Annie Elizabeth DAVIS in JunQ 1879. The date is about right, the place is right, first and middle names are correct but the surname is 'DAVIS'. * Annie Elizabeth TUFFIELD appears unmarried in the 1881 census as below with her mother of the same name. Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability Thomas TUFFIELD Head M Male 57 Shoreditch, Middlesex, England Congregational Minister Registrar Of Births & Deaths Ann E. TUFFIELD Wife M Female 53 Pulham, Norfolk, England Ann E. TUFFIELD Daur U Female 20 Woolwich, Kent, England Alice Selina TUFFIELD Daur U Female 19 Woolwich, Kent, England Frederick TUFFIELD Son Male 17 Woolwich, Kent, England Apprentice Engineering E & M Laura TUFFIELD Daur Female 15 Woolwich, Kent, England

Best of British Lyn! Cheers Marlene Lyn Mealey wrote: > Hi Everyone > > Yesterday was a whirlwind day with my search for what happened to Ellen > Naden. > > I would very sincerely like to thank all those who assisted with ideas, > lookups, thoughts and suggestions - all much appreciated. > > Special thanks to Marlene in NZ, Chris in Canada and Peter in Aus for > finding the pieces I didn't see that look as if they might solve my puzzle - > we'll see when certificates arrive - I'll let you know. > > Best wishes > Lyn > > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hi Everyone Yesterday was a whirlwind day with my search for what happened to Ellen Naden. I would very sincerely like to thank all those who assisted with ideas, lookups, thoughts and suggestions - all much appreciated. Special thanks to Marlene in NZ, Chris in Canada and Peter in Aus for finding the pieces I didn't see that look as if they might solve my puzzle - we'll see when certificates arrive - I'll let you know. Best wishes Lyn

Have you ordered the marriage certificate of William & Annie dated in 1879?, It should list her father's name or a formerly name. Could be that she was married before and even pregnant before they got married if Emily is their child who was born 6 months before the wedding. Wndy -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 1:09 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [BDF] New member searching for missing (?) CREW marriage c1878 ( also TUFNELL DAVIS ELSTON ) Hello List. :-) This is my first post to this list. I've been tracing the CREW family tree and become 'stuck' with the marriage of my g.g. grandfather William CREW born c1862. I've chronologically listed all the information I've accumulated to date, below, along with its source. The TUFFIELD birth is present as a possible. I quite agree with a previous comment to include what information you've already seen from the outset. Making some assumptions based on the children's ages I've been looking for a Luton marriage c1878- c1880. I don't know for certain that Emily and Ada were 'our' family but Robert and Alfred certainly are. The names Elizabeth, Emily, May (or Mary) and Agnes (or Ada) were recalled by one of our few living relatives along with Alfred and Robert. I've included the census returns as it ties in a number of things quite nicely. In terms of where I've looked; FreeBMD, familysearch.org and ancestry.co.uk. I've been following the discussion on Ellen Naden with interest and have tried to apply the wider ranging search technique to locating maybe a 'missing' marriage but alas to no result. MY QUESTION: Is it possible that Annie Elizabeth DAVIS and Annie Elizabeth TUFNELL are one and the same person? If so, can anybody suggest a reason for this? Can anybody see anything I've missed? Kind regards Pete FreeBMD Annie Elizabeth TUFNELL Births JunQ 1859 in St Saviour Southwark Vol 1d Pg1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ FreeBMD Annie Elizabeth DAVIS Births JunQ 1860 Camberwell Vol 1d Pg 478 (similar reg district to St Saviour Southwark) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FreeBMD Ann Elizabeth TUFFIELD Births DecQ 1860 Greenwich Vol 1d Pg 646 (*seen note at bottom) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- FreeBMD William CREW Births MarQ 1862 Luton Vol 3b Pg 425 ----------------------------------------------------------- 1871 England Census Street address: 65 New Town St Civil Parish:Luton, Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Town: Luton County: Bedfordshire, Country: England Reg district: Luton, Sub reg district: Luton ED, institution, or vessel: 17, Household schedule number:30 Household Members: Name, relation, Age, status,Occ,birthplace,birthyear. Caroline ELSTON wife, 34, married,hat sewer, Luton Beds, c1837 Daniel ELSTON head, 46, married,46,labourer, Hemel Hempstead Herts, c1825 Alfred TUFFNELL Son, 6, scholar,london, c1865 Alice TUFFNELL Dau, 10, hat sewer,London, c1861 Annie TUFFNELL Dau, 12, hat sewer, London, c1859 Caroline TUFFNELL Dau, 1, none,London, c1870 Charles Jas TUFFNELL Son, 14, labourer,London,c1857 Daniel TUFFNELL Son, 8, Scholar,London, c1863 ---------------------------------------------------- Emily May CREW born DecQ 1878 Luton Vol 3b Pg 434 ---------------------------------------------------- IGI marriages dated 02 JUN 1879 Saint Mary, Luton, Bedford, England William CREW (aged 18, making his birth year c1861) marries Annie Elizabeth DAVIS (aged20, making her birth year c1859) ------------------------------------------------------- Ada CREW born MarQ 1880 Luton 3b Pg 434 ---------------------------------------------------- 1881 census from IGI William CREW Head M Male 20 Luton, Bedford, Road Labourer Annie CREW Wife M Female 21 London, London, Middlesex, England, Straw Hat Machinist Emily CREW Dau Female 3 Luton, Bedford, England, Scholar Ada CREW Dau Female 1 Luton, Bedford, England, Scholar Daniel TUFFNELL Brother# U Male 18 London N, London, Middlesex, England Bricklayers Labourer # = probably should should be 'brother in law' Source Information: Dwelling: 4 Lee Road Census Place: Luton, Bedford, England Family History Library Film: 1341394. Public Records Office Reference: RG11. Piece / Folio: 1651 / 37. Page Number: 19 ----------------------------------------- Elizabeth CREW born c1883 (going by 1891 census) but couldn't find record on FreeBMD, IGI or ancestry. ------------------------------------- From Alfred CREW birth cert: born 28 March 1886 at 74 Sea Road, Luton. Mother "Annie elizabeth CREW" maiden name 'TUFNELL' Father "William CREW". Occupation:general labourer ------------------------------------- 1891 England Census Street address: 43 Willoughby St, West Derby, Liverpool. Civil Parish:West Derby, Ecclesiastical parish: St Catherine County:Lancashire Reg district: West Derby, Sub reg district: West Derby (Municipal) ED, institution, or vessel: 34 Household Members: Name Age, Status, birth year, birth place. William CREW 31 Head, Married, b. c1860 in Luton, Bedfordshire Annie CREW 32 Wife, Married, b. c1859 in London. Emily CREW 14 Daughter, single, b. c1877 in Luton, Bedfordshire Ada CREW 13 Daughter, single, b. c1878 in Luton, Bedfordshire Elizabeth CREW 8 Daughter, single, b. c1883 in Luton, Bedfordshire Alfred CREW 5 Son, single, b. c1886 in Luton, Bedfordshire --------------------------------------- From Robert CREW birth cert: Born 1 Aug 1894 at 34 Vulcan St Garston, Liverpool. Mother "Annie elizabeth CREW" maiden name 'TUFNELL' Father "William CREW". Occupation: dock labourer. --------------------------------------- Ann Elizabeth Crew born SepQ 1896, West Derby, Liverpool Vol 8b Pg 65 --------------------------------------------- From William CREW death cert: Died 23 Dec 1899 of pneumonia aged 38 at 20 Hughes St, Garston, Liverpool. leaves widow 'Annie Elizabeth CREW'. His Occupation:Dock labourer. FreeBMD Deaths DecQ 1899 William CREW West Derby, Liverpool Vol 8b Pg 486 Aged 38. This would make his birth year c1861 --------------------------- 1901 census, The only Robert CREW in Lancs in the 1901 census. Civil Parish:Garston Ecclesiastical parish:St Michael County:Lancashire Street address:72 Vulcan St. Registration district: West Derby Sub registration district:Wavertree ED, institution, or vessel:30 Household schedule number:284 Household Members: Name Age. Relation,birthyear,birthplace. Annie Eliza Crew 43 Widow, boarder b. c1858 in 'Lintin', Beds Annie Eliza Crew 4 boarder b. c1897 in Garston, Lancs Robert Crew 6 boarder b. c1895 in Garston, Lancs Elsie I Thomas 5 Daughter Hugh Thomas 46 head Hugh Herbert Thomas 3 Son Laura M Thomas 7 Daughter Mary C Thomas 41 Wife William E Thomas 8 Son ------------------------------------- Possible death record for Annie. Deaths DecQ 1909 Nottingham Vol 7b Pg 233 Ann Elizabeth CREW aged 48. This would make her birth year c1861. --------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------- From Mar1840 to Dec1900 there's only one female TUFNELL married and thats Alice in SepQ 1882. Searching for marriages using the surname 'TUFF*' Start date:Mar 1874 End date:Dec 1880 District:Luton only produces two non-matches. Searching for any 'CREW' marriages from Mar 1870 to Dec 1895 only produces one 'William' and that's the marriage of William CREW to Annie Elizabeth DAVIS in JunQ 1879. The date is about right, the place is right, first and middle names are correct but the surname is 'DAVIS'. * Annie Elizabeth TUFFIELD appears unmarried in the 1881 census as below with her mother of the same name. Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability Thomas TUFFIELD Head M Male 57 Shoreditch, Middlesex, England Congregational Minister Registrar Of Births & Deaths Ann E. TUFFIELD Wife M Female 53 Pulham, Norfolk, England Ann E. TUFFIELD Daur U Female 20 Woolwich, Kent, England Alice Selina TUFFIELD Daur U Female 19 Woolwich, Kent, England Frederick TUFFIELD Son Male 17 Woolwich, Kent, England Apprentice Engineering E & M Laura TUFFIELD Daur Female 15 Woolwich, Kent, England The List Guidelines http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Now that fits much better! Right name, right time frame, right area and she is legit! I'm sure Lyn will be delighted with this one! Cheers Marlene ;-) Chris Andrew wrote: > Hi Lyn: > > This might be the birth you are looking for > > England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index: 1837-1983 > Name: Madelina Jordan > Year of Registration: 1854 > Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep > District: Bedford > County: Bedfordshire > Volume: 3b > Page: 289 > > Chris Andrew > Ontario, Canada > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Darn Richard! I looked at that one for ages and didn't think of the Naden/Nathan possible connection! I was too preoccupied trying to find the Harris link! Lyn, if you apply for this cert, state that the mother's given name should be Ellen. Harris might be a clue to the father although he might be difficult to track between Bedford and Stepney! Well done Richard! Lyn will be kept busy for a while now methinks! Cheers Marlene Richard Sims wrote: > This may be a total red herring, and no connection whatsoever, but it > occurred to me that firstly the surname of NADEN has obviously been > mispronounced and attained assorted spellings, and secondly that the > Christian name Madeline (or its other variant) was not that abundant. > > So I fed just the name Madeline into the freeBMD and went through the > various quarters from 1854 to 1856 looking for a surname that might sound > like NADEN: > > Madeline Harris NATHAN Sep 1855 Stepney 1c 456 > > > I suggest you don't try this with an Elizabeth or Mary! > > Regards > > Richard > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Peter Booth > Sent: 26 June 2008 11:19 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [BDF] Ellen NADEN dau of Noah NADEN > > Lyn / Marlene, > > Hold the phone !!!!! > > Lewis Jordan is still alive in 1861 census !!!! He has moved to > Linslade in Buckinghamshire and is shown as unmarried. > > He is the same Lewis Jordan Coal Dealer born circa 1821 at Cople that 10 > > years earlier in 1851 is married with wife Ellen and daughter Julia. > > Is it possible that Madeline was illegitimate and Ellen had to have a > seven year period of separation before she was permitted to remarry. Either > that or she was forbidden to marry until after he died ( 'til death us do > part ). > > So who was the father of Madeline? 1871 census says she was born in > Bedford Town. 1861 says she was born in London. Did Ellen run off to London > to hide an unexpected pregnancy? > > There are so many unresolved questions. Hopefully the 1862 Marriage > Certificate will show if Ellen was single, divorced or widowed. But we still > > won't know the father of Madeline or when and where Lewis Jordan died. > > Perhaps it is worth looking on A2A to see if there was any petition for > divorce or bastardy bond. > > Peter > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Thanks for that! I don't have access to census but suspected either he or Ellen had ended the relationship. Hence I suggested that Madeline's birth may have to be sought by her mother's name - definitely Ellen but surname might be anything! There are several people with names of Woulleman on Genes Reunited. They all seem to be 1939-45 in Tassie. Do you want me to contact them giving your email or are you a member? Cheers Marlene Peter Booth wrote: > Lyn / Marlene, > > Hold the phone !!!!! > > Lewis Jordan is still alive in 1861 census !!!! He has moved to > Linslade in Buckinghamshire and is shown as unmarried. > > He is the same Lewis Jordan Coal Dealer born circa 1821 at Cople that 10 > years earlier in 1851 is married with wife Ellen and daughter Julia. > > Is it possible that Madeline was illegitimate and Ellen had to have a > seven year period of separation before she was permitted to remarry. Either > that or she was forbidden to marry until after he died ( 'til death us do > part ). > > So who was the father of Madeline? 1871 census says she was born in > Bedford Town. 1861 says she was born in London. Did Ellen run off to London > to hide an unexpected pregnancy? > > There are so many unresolved questions. Hopefully the 1862 Marriage > Certificate will show if Ellen was single, divorced or widowed. But we still > won't know the father of Madeline or when and where Lewis Jordan died. > > Perhaps it is worth looking on A2A to see if there was any petition for > divorce or bastardy bond. > > Peter > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Yes this is the one to go with - the other, Madeline Jourdain, I found is no good as she died at 6 months or so. Lyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marlene Shipman" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:33 PM Subject: Re: [BDF] Ellen NADEN dau of Noah NADEN > Now that fits much better! Right name, right time frame, right area and > she is legit! I'm sure Lyn will be delighted with this one! > Cheers > Marlene ;-) > > Chris Andrew wrote: >> Hi Lyn: >> >> This might be the birth you are looking for >> >> England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index: 1837-1983 >> Name: Madelina Jordan >> Year of Registration: 1854 >> Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep >> District: Bedford >> County: Bedfordshire >> Volume: 3b >> Page: 289 >> >> Chris Andrew >> Ontario, Canada >> >> >> >> >> The List Guidelines >> >> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Chris You might very well be right! All my documents suggest birth is between July 1854 and June 1855 (1861 census, her death cert, her arrival in Aust in June 1874 (age 19) Madeline could easily look like Madelina I have just been on freebmd and found another candidate! Madeline Jourdain March Qtr 1855 London 1c 85 I think these are both worth checking! Best wishes Lyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Andrew" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:17 PM Subject: Re: [BDF] Ellen NADEN dau of Noah NADEN > Hi Lyn: > > This might be the birth you are looking for > > England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index: 1837-1983 > Name: Madelina Jordan > Year of Registration: 1854 > Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep > District: Bedford > County: Bedfordshire > Volume: 3b > Page: 289 > > Chris Andrew > Ontario, Canada > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi It may also may be helpful , once you have the Cert to alert Free Bmd of the missing bride and add a Postem! Old Dog (???) Marlene Peter Booth wrote: > Marlene / Lynn, > > Well done Marlene !! A lesson for us all when using FreeBMD. I would > advise all listers to note this example. It occurs quite regularly. > > In March Qtr 1862, I noted the two males and one female in the marriage > records. One bride was obviously missing. > > If you omit all names and just search the March 1862 records for Pancras > registration district they both come up. > > Thomas Scard shows Pancras Vol 1b Pg 32 > Ellen Naden shows Pancras Vol 1b Pg 3[2 ] > > It looks like the non-numeric characters in the page number prevent > display in a normal search. > > Hope all us "old dogs" can learn some new tricks to help us with our > research. > > Peter in Sydney > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Thanks, Peter for finding this - I haven't easy access to Ancestry at the moment and hadn't fully checked where Lewis was in 1861. Do remember now that 1871 census said birthplace for Madeline was Bedford, but as all the other records I had said London for her, I thought perhaps this was an error. However, since Madeline was giving the info (with no other family with her it would seem) you wouldn't think she'd make a mistake and if census enumerator erred, it is a funny coincidence he put Bedford. The 7 year period sounds very likely, for whatever reason. Seems likely that Madeline was illegitimate, but whose child I wonder? Thomas was only 20/21 when Madeline born in 1854/5. He was still at Bishops Waltham Grammar School in 1851, then went (?) to study medecine. So still a student in 1854/5. That's a good suggestion to see if anything on A2A site. I have searched for Thomas Scard before and that's where I found some things re Thomas's father Edward Scard (including his will) Best wishes Lyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Booth" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [BDF] Ellen NADEN dau of Noah NADEN > Lyn / Marlene, > > Hold the phone !!!!! > > Lewis Jordan is still alive in 1861 census !!!! He has moved to > Linslade in Buckinghamshire and is shown as unmarried. > > He is the same Lewis Jordan Coal Dealer born circa 1821 at Cople that > 10 > years earlier in 1851 is married with wife Ellen and daughter Julia. > > Is it possible that Madeline was illegitimate and Ellen had to have a > seven year period of separation before she was permitted to remarry. > Either > that or she was forbidden to marry until after he died ( 'til death us do > part ). > > So who was the father of Madeline? 1871 census says she was born in > Bedford Town. 1861 says she was born in London. Did Ellen run off to > London > to hide an unexpected pregnancy? > > There are so many unresolved questions. Hopefully the 1862 Marriage > Certificate will show if Ellen was single, divorced or widowed. But we > still > won't know the father of Madeline or when and where Lewis Jordan died. > > Perhaps it is worth looking on A2A to see if there was any petition for > divorce or bastardy bond. > > Peter > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message