John & Mary Looks like it may be Elisabeth Holt, christened 13 June 1790, Holme on Spalding Moor, East Riding on IGI batch no. C012083. Parents John Holt and Elizabeth. Holme is about 15 miles south-east of York, near Market Weighton. That's enough detective work for today! Peter Jarman -----Original Message----- From: bedford-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:bedford-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John Partridge Sent: 18 November 2009 22:35 To: bedford@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BDF] HOLT Family - ODELL 1811-1880 ....or even Yorkshire... William Savidge baptised 24 July 1791 at Odell soon of William & Sarah On 1851 census living ih Harrold Beds is William Savage age 58 born Odell, with wife Elizabeth age 61 born Holme, Yorks, plus 3 Savage children, plus 3 Holt grandchildren. cheers John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Jarman" <p.jarman@ntlworld.com> To: <bedford@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:17 PM Subject: Re: [BDF] HOLT Family - ODELL 1811-1880 > Elizabeth Holt seems to have married William Savage 4 June 1819 at Odell. > > She might have strayed over the border from Northants or even Bucks. > > Peter Jarman > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: bedford-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:bedford-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On > Behalf Of John Partridge > Sent: 18 November 2009 19:33 > To: bedford@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [BDF] HOLT Family - ODELL 1811-1880 > > Hello, From the Odell PR transcript William Hoult was iilleg son of > Ekizabeth Hoult baptised 29 Dec 1811 born 31 Oct. > > The only other Holt in Odell up to 1813 was baptism on 19 Apr 1812 of John > Holt son of Robert & Ann Holt > > So looks like mother Eliz did not originate from Odell, or even from > Bedfordshire due to lack of any extracted baptism for her. > > Regards > John > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Booth" <pbo08596@bigpond.net.au> > To: <bedford@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 11:52 AM > Subject: Re: [BDF] HOLT Family - ODELL 1811-1880 > > >> Mary, >> >> You seem to have done pretty well getting this far, so I presume >> you're >> looking for other researchers rather than specific help. >> >> About 95% of available Parish Records for Bedfordshire are on IGI at >> www.familysearch.org >> After 1837 you'll find compulsory BDM registrations at >> http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl >> >> There is also a census every 10 years from 1841-1911. Try for free >> access at a local FHS centre or else try >> http://www.findmypast.com/home.jsp >> where you can pay per view, rather than take out an annual subscription. >> >> I can't see any submitted trees for your Holt lines, but somebody else >> may find them in other locations. Try also Holt surname forums at >> Rootsweb >> and Genforum. >> >> It looks like William Holt b1811 was the illegitimate son of Elizabeth >> Holt. That record is on IGI. >> >> As he was married before 1841, you probably won't find his mother with >> him. She may also have later married. There are few marriages. There is a >> Elizabeth Holt marriage in Odell 8 yrs later, but it looks too long after >> William's 1811 birth. >> >> There seem only two christenings around the time for an Elizabeth Holt >> on IGI, one at Tottenhoe and the other at Leighton Buzzard. Both seem in >> the >> opposite direction for Odell. That's going to be difficult. >> >> Peter >> >> >> >> >> >> The List Guidelines >> >> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >> >> The Bedfordshire Surnames List >> >> http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.72/2511 - Release Date: 11/18/09 > 07:50:00 > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > The Bedfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.66/2504 - Release Date: 11/15/09 > 07:50:00 > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > The Bedfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.72/2511 - Release Date: 11/18/09 07:50:00 The List Guidelines http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ The Bedfordshire Surnames List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.66/2504 - Release Date: 11/15/09 07:50:00

Mary, You seem to have done pretty well getting this far, so I presume you're looking for other researchers rather than specific help. About 95% of available Parish Records for Bedfordshire are on IGI at www.familysearch.org After 1837 you'll find compulsory BDM registrations at http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl There is also a census every 10 years from 1841-1911. Try for free access at a local FHS centre or else try http://www.findmypast.com/home.jsp where you can pay per view, rather than take out an annual subscription. I can't see any submitted trees for your Holt lines, but somebody else may find them in other locations. Try also Holt surname forums at Rootsweb and Genforum. It looks like William Holt b1811 was the illegitimate son of Elizabeth Holt. That record is on IGI. As he was married before 1841, you probably won't find his mother with him. She may also have later married. There are few marriages. There is a Elizabeth Holt marriage in Odell 8 yrs later, but it looks too long after William's 1811 birth. There seem only two christenings around the time for an Elizabeth Holt on IGI, one at Tottenhoe and the other at Leighton Buzzard. Both seem in the opposite direction for Odell. That's going to be difficult. Peter

....or even Yorkshire... William Savidge baptised 24 July 1791 at Odell soon of William & Sarah On 1851 census living ih Harrold Beds is William Savage age 58 born Odell, with wife Elizabeth age 61 born Holme, Yorks, plus 3 Savage children, plus 3 Holt grandchildren. cheers John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Jarman" <p.jarman@ntlworld.com> To: <bedford@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:17 PM Subject: Re: [BDF] HOLT Family - ODELL 1811-1880 > Elizabeth Holt seems to have married William Savage 4 June 1819 at Odell. > > She might have strayed over the border from Northants or even Bucks. > > Peter Jarman > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: bedford-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:bedford-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On > Behalf Of John Partridge > Sent: 18 November 2009 19:33 > To: bedford@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [BDF] HOLT Family - ODELL 1811-1880 > > Hello, From the Odell PR transcript William Hoult was iilleg son of > Ekizabeth Hoult baptised 29 Dec 1811 born 31 Oct. > > The only other Holt in Odell up to 1813 was baptism on 19 Apr 1812 of John > Holt son of Robert & Ann Holt > > So looks like mother Eliz did not originate from Odell, or even from > Bedfordshire due to lack of any extracted baptism for her. > > Regards > John > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Booth" <pbo08596@bigpond.net.au> > To: <bedford@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 11:52 AM > Subject: Re: [BDF] HOLT Family - ODELL 1811-1880 > > >> Mary, >> >> You seem to have done pretty well getting this far, so I presume >> you're >> looking for other researchers rather than specific help. >> >> About 95% of available Parish Records for Bedfordshire are on IGI at >> www.familysearch.org >> After 1837 you'll find compulsory BDM registrations at >> http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl >> >> There is also a census every 10 years from 1841-1911. Try for free >> access at a local FHS centre or else try >> http://www.findmypast.com/home.jsp >> where you can pay per view, rather than take out an annual subscription. >> >> I can't see any submitted trees for your Holt lines, but somebody else >> may find them in other locations. Try also Holt surname forums at >> Rootsweb >> and Genforum. >> >> It looks like William Holt b1811 was the illegitimate son of Elizabeth >> Holt. That record is on IGI. >> >> As he was married before 1841, you probably won't find his mother with >> him. She may also have later married. There are few marriages. There is a >> Elizabeth Holt marriage in Odell 8 yrs later, but it looks too long after >> William's 1811 birth. >> >> There seem only two christenings around the time for an Elizabeth Holt >> on IGI, one at Tottenhoe and the other at Leighton Buzzard. Both seem in >> the >> opposite direction for Odell. That's going to be difficult. >> >> Peter >> >> >> >> >> >> The List Guidelines >> >> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >> >> The Bedfordshire Surnames List >> >> http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.72/2511 - Release Date: 11/18/09 > 07:50:00 > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > The Bedfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.66/2504 - Release Date: 11/15/09 > 07:50:00 > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > The Bedfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.72/2511 - Release Date: 11/18/09 07:50:00

In 1851 census William Savage and Elizabeth (Holt) live in Harrold. Age given as 61 and birthplace as Holne, Yorkshire (might Holme in East Riding perhaps) Various Savage and Holt relatives, so Holt may have been her married name. Might get more info if anyone can access Odell PR's Peter Jarman -----Original Message----- From: bedford-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:bedford-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Peter Jarman Sent: 18 November 2009 22:17 To: bedford@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BDF] HOLT Family - ODELL 1811-1880 Elizabeth Holt seems to have married William Savage 4 June 1819 at Odell. She might have strayed over the border from Northants or even Bucks. Peter Jarman -----Original Message----- From: bedford-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:bedford-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John Partridge Sent: 18 November 2009 19:33 To: bedford@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BDF] HOLT Family - ODELL 1811-1880 Hello, From the Odell PR transcript William Hoult was iilleg son of Ekizabeth Hoult baptised 29 Dec 1811 born 31 Oct. The only other Holt in Odell up to 1813 was baptism on 19 Apr 1812 of John Holt son of Robert & Ann Holt So looks like mother Eliz did not originate from Odell, or even from Bedfordshire due to lack of any extracted baptism for her. Regards John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Booth" <pbo08596@bigpond.net.au> To: <bedford@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [BDF] HOLT Family - ODELL 1811-1880 > Mary, > > You seem to have done pretty well getting this far, so I presume you're > looking for other researchers rather than specific help. > > About 95% of available Parish Records for Bedfordshire are on IGI at > www.familysearch.org > After 1837 you'll find compulsory BDM registrations at > http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl > > There is also a census every 10 years from 1841-1911. Try for free > access at a local FHS centre or else try > http://www.findmypast.com/home.jsp > where you can pay per view, rather than take out an annual subscription. > > I can't see any submitted trees for your Holt lines, but somebody else > may find them in other locations. Try also Holt surname forums at Rootsweb > and Genforum. > > It looks like William Holt b1811 was the illegitimate son of Elizabeth > Holt. That record is on IGI. > > As he was married before 1841, you probably won't find his mother with > him. She may also have later married. There are few marriages. There is a > Elizabeth Holt marriage in Odell 8 yrs later, but it looks too long after > William's 1811 birth. > > There seem only two christenings around the time for an Elizabeth Holt > on IGI, one at Tottenhoe and the other at Leighton Buzzard. Both seem in > the > opposite direction for Odell. That's going to be difficult. > > Peter > > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > The Bedfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.72/2511 - Release Date: 11/18/09 07:50:00 The List Guidelines http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ The Bedfordshire Surnames List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.66/2504 - Release Date: 11/15/09 07:50:00 The List Guidelines http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ The Bedfordshire Surnames List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.66/2504 - Release Date: 11/15/09 07:50:00

Elizabeth Holt seems to have married William Savage 4 June 1819 at Odell. She might have strayed over the border from Northants or even Bucks. Peter Jarman -----Original Message----- From: bedford-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:bedford-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John Partridge Sent: 18 November 2009 19:33 To: bedford@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BDF] HOLT Family - ODELL 1811-1880 Hello, From the Odell PR transcript William Hoult was iilleg son of Ekizabeth Hoult baptised 29 Dec 1811 born 31 Oct. The only other Holt in Odell up to 1813 was baptism on 19 Apr 1812 of John Holt son of Robert & Ann Holt So looks like mother Eliz did not originate from Odell, or even from Bedfordshire due to lack of any extracted baptism for her. Regards John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Booth" <pbo08596@bigpond.net.au> To: <bedford@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [BDF] HOLT Family - ODELL 1811-1880 > Mary, > > You seem to have done pretty well getting this far, so I presume you're > looking for other researchers rather than specific help. > > About 95% of available Parish Records for Bedfordshire are on IGI at > www.familysearch.org > After 1837 you'll find compulsory BDM registrations at > http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl > > There is also a census every 10 years from 1841-1911. Try for free > access at a local FHS centre or else try > http://www.findmypast.com/home.jsp > where you can pay per view, rather than take out an annual subscription. > > I can't see any submitted trees for your Holt lines, but somebody else > may find them in other locations. Try also Holt surname forums at Rootsweb > and Genforum. > > It looks like William Holt b1811 was the illegitimate son of Elizabeth > Holt. That record is on IGI. > > As he was married before 1841, you probably won't find his mother with > him. She may also have later married. There are few marriages. There is a > Elizabeth Holt marriage in Odell 8 yrs later, but it looks too long after > William's 1811 birth. > > There seem only two christenings around the time for an Elizabeth Holt > on IGI, one at Tottenhoe and the other at Leighton Buzzard. Both seem in > the > opposite direction for Odell. That's going to be difficult. > > Peter > > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > The Bedfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.72/2511 - Release Date: 11/18/09 07:50:00 The List Guidelines http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ The Bedfordshire Surnames List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.66/2504 - Release Date: 11/15/09 07:50:00

Hello, From the Odell PR transcript William Hoult was iilleg son of Ekizabeth Hoult baptised 29 Dec 1811 born 31 Oct. The only other Holt in Odell up to 1813 was baptism on 19 Apr 1812 of John Holt son of Robert & Ann Holt So looks like mother Eliz did not originate from Odell, or even from Bedfordshire due to lack of any extracted baptism for her. Regards John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Booth" <pbo08596@bigpond.net.au> To: <bedford@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [BDF] HOLT Family - ODELL 1811-1880 > Mary, > > You seem to have done pretty well getting this far, so I presume you're > looking for other researchers rather than specific help. > > About 95% of available Parish Records for Bedfordshire are on IGI at > www.familysearch.org > After 1837 you'll find compulsory BDM registrations at > http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl > > There is also a census every 10 years from 1841-1911. Try for free > access at a local FHS centre or else try > http://www.findmypast.com/home.jsp > where you can pay per view, rather than take out an annual subscription. > > I can't see any submitted trees for your Holt lines, but somebody else > may find them in other locations. Try also Holt surname forums at Rootsweb > and Genforum. > > It looks like William Holt b1811 was the illegitimate son of Elizabeth > Holt. That record is on IGI. > > As he was married before 1841, you probably won't find his mother with > him. She may also have later married. There are few marriages. There is a > Elizabeth Holt marriage in Odell 8 yrs later, but it looks too long after > William's 1811 birth. > > There seem only two christenings around the time for an Elizabeth Holt > on IGI, one at Tottenhoe and the other at Leighton Buzzard. Both seem in > the > opposite direction for Odell. That's going to be difficult. > > Peter > > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > The Bedfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.72/2511 - Release Date: 11/18/09 07:50:00

Hi, I am looking for information on the family of William Dudley born abt 1863 and Ellen Johnson born 1862. They married in 1884 in Bedfordshire and had 5/6 children. born between 1885 and 1900 in Bedfordshire Herbert John, Frederick William, Emily Elizabeth,. Florence May, Jess, and Annie Martha?? Any help with the descendants of this family welcome Thanks Ruth Australia

Hi Ruth This is part of my extended tree. William was a remote cousin (4th Cousin 3 Times Removed)! Our common ancestors were my 6G grandparents Woodward Dudley and Elizabeth Bruce. I haven't really studied this family, but I do have the children. Herbert John, Frederick William, Emily Elizabeth, Florence May, Jesse (male), Annie M possible Annie Martha and Margaret. How can I help? Bev also in Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ruth" <reridley10@netcall.com.au> To: <BEDFORD@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 2:01 PM Subject: [BDF] DUDLEY/JOHNSON > Hi, I am looking for information on the family of William Dudley born abt > 1863 and Ellen Johnson born 1862. They married in 1884 in Bedfordshire > and had 5/6 > children. born between 1885 and 1900 in Bedfordshire > Herbert John, > Frederick William, > Emily Elizabeth,. > Florence May, > Jess, > and Annie Martha?? > Any help with the descendants of this family welcome > Thanks > Ruth > Australia > >

Hi, I am new to mailing lists and so would be very grateful for any information about the following; Charles William Holt, born in Bedford in1865, married to Clara Cave, born in Bedford in 1867, in 1890. My maternal grandparents. George Holt, born in Bedford in 1840, married to Sarah Ann Norman, born in Bedford in 1835, in 1864. My g.grandparents. William Holt, born in 1811, married to Sabina Swannell, born in Odell in 1817, in 1838. My gg.grandparents. Charles Holt was a wheelwright George was a shoemaker William Holt was a tailor If anyone can give me any information about any of them, Thank you. Mary

Sadly W H Allens (or Queens Engineering Works) later becoming part of APE = Amalgamated Power Engineering stopped trading quite a few years back. The site is now demolished & replaced with a housing estate. As Dave said it ran all the way between Hurst Grove & the railway line. My dad started work there aged 14 & got his 25 year award of a silver plated cigarette box in 1959. In the company magazine during that year my dad gets a mention. These are also available in the Bedford Heritage library that opens each Tuesday. During the war my dad was in a 'reserved occupation' as WHA built engines for warships, one being HMS York. cherrs John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Valentine" <dvale-thebench@tiscali.co.uk> To: <joan.mcdonough1@ntlworld.com>; <bedford@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 10:49 AM Subject: Re: [BDF] Re : daniel ward cross Hi Joan, W H Allen was a huge factory complex on Queens Park side of the railway bridge near Midland road station. They must have employed 1000's in their heyday. I recently checked out one of their company magazines held at Bedford Archives. I think the road is Hurst Grove that runs parallel to the railway, between Queens Park road and Bromham Road [but it's 35 years since I lived there] and their factory stretched much of it's length. My uncle was an engineer there and they manufactured turbines etc that were sold and installed worldwide. Dave V -----Original Message----- From: bedford-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:bedford-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Joan McDonough Sent: 17 November 2009 10:29 To: bedford@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BDF] Re : daniel ward cross I'm in Bedford; was that Allen's turbines? Joan. Carol Rudram wrote: > Hi all, > > My grandfather was a store keeper latterly before he retired and that > was a keeper of the stores for a largish engineering manufacturer in > Bedford - Allen's if there are any Bedfordians on the list. > > Carol Rudram > Researching Edwards and Webb in Bedfordshire > >> In America a storekeeper would be what we in England (says he from France!) call a shop keeper. I don't recall seeing the expression storekeeper used in that context in a census in England. Others may prove me wrong. Equally if he was from New Zealand I don't know what meaning he applied to the word. >> >> But it could also mean someone in charge of the stores, a warehouseman, and he would have been an employee rather than someone in business on his own account. >> >> So I don't think that he was necessarily self employed >> >> What does anyone else think? >> >> David >> >> --- En date de : Dim 15.11.09, m.leach@xtra.co.nz <m.leach@xtra.co.nz> a écrit : >> >> >> >>> De: m.leach@xtra.co.nz <m.leach@xtra.co.nz> >>> Objet: [BDF] daniel ward cross >>> À: bedford@rootsweb.com >>> Date: Dimanche 15 Novembre 2009, 12h07 >>> Thank you all for your responses. >>> I did have it on Warickshire because that is where he died >>> and lived .I have contacted all I can there even to the >>> lawyers who handled his will which I have a copy of.It said >>> no family and all to Emma His death cert. he died 1930 shows >>> Emma still living at Leamington Spa. >>> The Warickshire archives put me on to the lawyers and >>> despite many emails they will not answer. I have had someone >>> in Eng.contact them but they say they have nothing >>> although they are on the will . >>> Why I am on the Bedford list as Jenny found them in >>> Bedford on the 1911 cencus I have taken your advice and >>> looked at directories.Found them in Leamington Spa >>> 1925 and 1926 but they show Daniel as David >>> They were married 1902 and his address is shown as 41 >>> camversham rd reading age 51 and puts himself down as >>> a >>> bachelor storekeeper even >>> at one stage got on to Reading library etc no joy. Emma was >>> 31 lived at 78 Canfield gardens Hamstead no occupation >>> but I have seen her in the 1901 cencus as a servant. >>> So no money there. >>> Daniels wife in N Z came from a wealthy family but in >>> Daniels fathers will he did not get any money so I do not >>> know how he lived financially Thats why I have been trying >>> to find him in a buisness >>> As for N.Z Family thank you I have all the info needed and >>> yes some of the grandchildren are still alive.\ >>> Hope I have answered all questions >>> Thank You Maureen >>> >>> >>> >>> The List Guidelines >>> >>> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> The Bedfordshire Surnames List >>> >>> http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com >>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the >>> subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> The List Guidelines >> >> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >> >> The Bedfordshire Surnames List >> >> http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > The Bedfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > The List Guidelines http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ The Bedfordshire Surnames List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.62/2499 - Release Date: 11/12/09 14:33:00 The List Guidelines http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ The Bedfordshire Surnames List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.67/2506 - Release Date: 11/16/09 07:43:00

Hi Joan, W H Allen was a huge factory complex on Queens Park side of the railway bridge near Midland road station. They must have employed 1000's in their heyday. I recently checked out one of their company magazines held at Bedford Archives. I think the road is Hurst Grove that runs parallel to the railway, between Queens Park road and Bromham Road [but it's 35 years since I lived there] and their factory stretched much of it's length. My uncle was an engineer there and they manufactured turbines etc that were sold and installed worldwide. Dave V -----Original Message----- From: bedford-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:bedford-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Joan McDonough Sent: 17 November 2009 10:29 To: bedford@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BDF] Re : daniel ward cross I'm in Bedford; was that Allen's turbines? Joan. Carol Rudram wrote: > Hi all, > > My grandfather was a store keeper latterly before he retired and that > was a keeper of the stores for a largish engineering manufacturer in > Bedford - Allen's if there are any Bedfordians on the list. > > Carol Rudram > Researching Edwards and Webb in Bedfordshire > >> In America a storekeeper would be what we in England (says he from France!) call a shop keeper. I don't recall seeing the expression storekeeper used in that context in a census in England. Others may prove me wrong. Equally if he was from New Zealand I don't know what meaning he applied to the word. >> >> But it could also mean someone in charge of the stores, a warehouseman, and he would have been an employee rather than someone in business on his own account. >> >> So I don't think that he was necessarily self employed >> >> What does anyone else think? >> >> David >> >> --- En date de : Dim 15.11.09, m.leach@xtra.co.nz <m.leach@xtra.co.nz> a écrit : >> >> >> >>> De: m.leach@xtra.co.nz <m.leach@xtra.co.nz> >>> Objet: [BDF] daniel ward cross >>> À: bedford@rootsweb.com >>> Date: Dimanche 15 Novembre 2009, 12h07 >>> Thank you all for your responses. >>> I did have it on Warickshire because that is where he died >>> and lived .I have contacted all I can there even to the >>> lawyers who handled his will which I have a copy of.It said >>> no family and all to Emma His death cert. he died 1930 shows >>> Emma still living at Leamington Spa. >>> The Warickshire archives put me on to the lawyers and >>> despite many emails they will not answer. I have had someone >>> in Eng.contact them but they say they have nothing >>> although they are on the will . >>> Why I am on the Bedford list as Jenny found them in >>> Bedford on the 1911 cencus I have taken your advice and >>> looked at directories.Found them in Leamington Spa >>> 1925 and 1926 but they show Daniel as David >>> They were married 1902 and his address is shown as 41 >>> camversham rd reading age 51 and puts himself down as >>> a >>> bachelor storekeeper even >>> at one stage got on to Reading library etc no joy. Emma was >>> 31 lived at 78 Canfield gardens Hamstead no occupation >>> but I have seen her in the 1901 cencus as a servant. >>> So no money there. >>> Daniels wife in N Z came from a wealthy family but in >>> Daniels fathers will he did not get any money so I do not >>> know how he lived financially Thats why I have been trying >>> to find him in a buisness >>> As for N.Z Family thank you I have all the info needed and >>> yes some of the grandchildren are still alive.\ >>> Hope I have answered all questions >>> Thank You Maureen >>> >>> >>> >>> The List Guidelines >>> >>> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> The Bedfordshire Surnames List >>> >>> http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com >>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the >>> subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> The List Guidelines >> >> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >> >> The Bedfordshire Surnames List >> >> http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > The Bedfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > The List Guidelines http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ The Bedfordshire Surnames List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.62/2499 - Release Date: 11/12/09 14:33:00

I'm in Bedford; was that Allen's turbines? Joan. Carol Rudram wrote: > Hi all, > > My grandfather was a store keeper latterly before he retired and that > was a keeper of the stores for a largish engineering manufacturer in > Bedford - Allen's if there are any Bedfordians on the list. > > Carol Rudram > Researching Edwards and Webb in Bedfordshire > >> In America a storekeeper would be what we in England (says he from France!) call a shop keeper. I don't recall seeing the expression storekeeper used in that context in a census in England. Others may prove me wrong. Equally if he was from New Zealand I don't know what meaning he applied to the word. >> >> But it could also mean someone in charge of the stores, a warehouseman, and he would have been an employee rather than someone in business on his own account. >> >> So I don't think that he was necessarily self employed >> >> What does anyone else think? >> >> David >> >> --- En date de : Dim 15.11.09, m.leach@xtra.co.nz <m.leach@xtra.co.nz> a écrit : >> >> >> >>> De: m.leach@xtra.co.nz <m.leach@xtra.co.nz> >>> Objet: [BDF] daniel ward cross >>> À: bedford@rootsweb.com >>> Date: Dimanche 15 Novembre 2009, 12h07 >>> Thank you all for your responses. >>> I did have it on Warickshire because that is where he died >>> and lived .I have contacted all I can there even to the >>> lawyers who handled his will which I have a copy of.It said >>> no family and all to Emma His death cert. he died 1930 shows >>> Emma still living at Leamington Spa. >>> The Warickshire archives put me on to the lawyers and >>> despite many emails they will not answer. I have had someone >>> in Eng.contact them but they say they have nothing >>> although they are on the will . >>> Why I am on the Bedford list as Jenny found them in >>> Bedford on the 1911 cencus I have taken your advice and >>> looked at directories.Found them in Leamington Spa >>> 1925 and 1926 but they show Daniel as David >>> They were married 1902 and his address is shown as 41 >>> camversham rd reading age 51 and puts himself down as >>> a >>> bachelor storekeeper even >>> at one stage got on to Reading library etc no joy. Emma was >>> 31 lived at 78 Canfield gardens Hamstead no occupation >>> but I have seen her in the 1901 cencus as a servant. >>> So no money there. >>> Daniels wife in N Z came from a wealthy family but in >>> Daniels fathers will he did not get any money so I do not >>> know how he lived financially Thats why I have been trying >>> to find him in a buisness >>> As for N.Z Family thank you I have all the info needed and >>> yes some of the grandchildren are still alive.\ >>> Hope I have answered all questions >>> Thank You Maureen >>> >>> >>> >>> The List Guidelines >>> >>> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> The Bedfordshire Surnames List >>> >>> http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com >>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the >>> subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> The List Guidelines >> >> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >> >> The Bedfordshire Surnames List >> >> http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > The Bedfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

In New Zealand Daniel travelled around selling his wares.In 1901 english cencus he has no occupation says living on own money 1911 cencus says retired storekeeper Marriage Cert says storekeeper death cert says retired grocer and provisions dealer So it makes me think that he did have a store of some kind so back to the drawing board thanks for your interest cheers maureen

> In New Zealand Daniel travelled around selling his wares.In 1901 > english cencus he has no occupation says living on own money 1911 > cencus says retired storekeeper Marriage Cert says storekeeper death > cert says retired grocer and provisions dealer So it makes me think > that he did have a store The problem is that 'shop' is the normal English word - 'store' for an ordinary shop is an Americanism (and possibly an Anzacism, if such a thing exists). Only later did 'department store' come to be used for a really large multiple trading building like Harrods, Whiteleys etc) In England, anyone called a storekeeper would be understood as a kind of warehouseman looking after the goods for a firm, or institution, and issuing them to employees of that firm. By extension, the man in a garage who looks after the spare parts is a storeman or store keeper. But not a grocer. For instance, I have come across a store keeper in a workhouse or asylum. who issued the bedding, rations, cleaning stuff, pots and pans etc to the inhabitants and staff. Perhaps he failed in business or ran out of money, and went to work for a firm or institution in his old age?

The census might say that he had employed 2 staff or a similar expression. Important to pick up on every detail! Marlene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol Rudram" <carol@rudram.org> To: <bedford@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 3:27 AM Subject: Re: [BDF] Re : daniel ward cross Hi all, My grandfather was a store keeper latterly before he retired and that was a keeper of the stores for a largish engineering manufacturer in Bedford - Allen's if there are any Bedfordians on the list. Carol Rudram Researching Edwards and Webb in Bedfordshire > In America a storekeeper would be what we in England (says he from > France!) call a shop keeper. I don't recall seeing the expression > storekeeper used in that context in a census in England. Others may prove > me wrong. Equally if he was from New Zealand I don't know what meaning he > applied to the word. > > But it could also mean someone in charge of the stores, a warehouseman, > and he would have been an employee rather than someone in business on his > own account. > > So I don't think that he was necessarily self employed > > What does anyone else think? > > David > > --- En date de : Dim 15.11.09, m.leach@xtra.co.nz <m.leach@xtra.co.nz> a > écrit : > > >> De: m.leach@xtra.co.nz <m.leach@xtra.co.nz> >> Objet: [BDF] daniel ward cross >> À: bedford@rootsweb.com >> Date: Dimanche 15 Novembre 2009, 12h07 >> Thank you all for your responses. >> I did have it on Warickshire because that is where he died >> and lived .I have contacted all I can there even to the >> lawyers who handled his will which I have a copy of.It said >> no family and all to Emma His death cert. he died 1930 shows >> Emma still living at Leamington Spa. >> The Warickshire archives put me on to the lawyers and >> despite many emails they will not answer. I have had someone >> in Eng.contact them but they say they have nothing >> although they are on the will . >> Why I am on the Bedford list as Jenny found them in >> Bedford on the 1911 cencus I have taken your advice and >> looked at directories.Found them in Leamington Spa >> 1925 and 1926 but they show Daniel as David >> They were married 1902 and his address is shown as 41 >> camversham rd reading age 51 and puts himself down as >> a >> bachelor storekeeper even >> at one stage got on to Reading library etc no joy. Emma was >> 31 lived at 78 Canfield gardens Hamstead no occupation >> but I have seen her in the 1901 cencus as a servant. >> So no money there. >> Daniels wife in N Z came from a wealthy family but in >> Daniels fathers will he did not get any money so I do not >> know how he lived financially Thats why I have been trying >> to find him in a buisness >> As for N.Z Family thank you I have all the info needed and >> yes some of the grandchildren are still alive.\ >> Hope I have answered all questions >> Thank You Maureen >> >> >> >> The List Guidelines >> >> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >> >> The Bedfordshire Surnames List >> >> http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the >> subject and the body of the message >> >> > > > > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > The Bedfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > The List Guidelines http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ The Bedfordshire Surnames List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you all for your responses. I did have it on Warickshire because that is where he died and lived .I have contacted all I can there even to the lawyers who handled his will which I have a copy of.It said no family and all to Emma His death cert. he died 1930 shows Emma still living at Leamington Spa. The Warickshire archives put me on to the lawyers and despite many emails they will not answer. I have had someone in Eng.contact them but they say they have nothing although they are on the will . Why I am on the Bedford list as Jenny found them in Bedford on the 1911 cencus I have taken your advice and looked at directories.Found them in Leamington Spa 1925 and 1926 but they show Daniel as David They were married 1902 and his address is shown as 41 camversham rd reading age 51 and puts himself down as a bachelor storekeeper even at one stage got on to Reading library etc no joy. Emma was 31 lived at 78 Canfield gardens Hamstead no occupation but I have seen her in the 1901 cencus as a servant. So no money there. Daniels wife in N Z came from a wealthy family but in Daniels fathers will he did not get any money so I do not know how he lived financially Thats why I have been trying to find him in a buisness As for N.Z Family thank you I have all the info needed and yes some of the grandchildren are still alive.\ Hope I have answered all questions Thank You Maureen

Hi all, My grandfather was a store keeper latterly before he retired and that was a keeper of the stores for a largish engineering manufacturer in Bedford - Allen's if there are any Bedfordians on the list. Carol Rudram Researching Edwards and Webb in Bedfordshire > In America a storekeeper would be what we in England (says he from France!) call a shop keeper. I don't recall seeing the expression storekeeper used in that context in a census in England. Others may prove me wrong. Equally if he was from New Zealand I don't know what meaning he applied to the word. > > But it could also mean someone in charge of the stores, a warehouseman, and he would have been an employee rather than someone in business on his own account. > > So I don't think that he was necessarily self employed > > What does anyone else think? > > David > > --- En date de : Dim 15.11.09, m.leach@xtra.co.nz <m.leach@xtra.co.nz> a écrit : > > >> De: m.leach@xtra.co.nz <m.leach@xtra.co.nz> >> Objet: [BDF] daniel ward cross >> À: bedford@rootsweb.com >> Date: Dimanche 15 Novembre 2009, 12h07 >> Thank you all for your responses. >> I did have it on Warickshire because that is where he died >> and lived .I have contacted all I can there even to the >> lawyers who handled his will which I have a copy of.It said >> no family and all to Emma His death cert. he died 1930 shows >> Emma still living at Leamington Spa. >> The Warickshire archives put me on to the lawyers and >> despite many emails they will not answer. I have had someone >> in Eng.contact them but they say they have nothing >> although they are on the will . >> Why I am on the Bedford list as Jenny found them in >> Bedford on the 1911 cencus I have taken your advice and >> looked at directories.Found them in Leamington Spa >> 1925 and 1926 but they show Daniel as David >> They were married 1902 and his address is shown as 41 >> camversham rd reading age 51 and puts himself down as >> a >> bachelor storekeeper even >> at one stage got on to Reading library etc no joy. Emma was >> 31 lived at 78 Canfield gardens Hamstead no occupation >> but I have seen her in the 1901 cencus as a servant. >> So no money there. >> Daniels wife in N Z came from a wealthy family but in >> Daniels fathers will he did not get any money so I do not >> know how he lived financially Thats why I have been trying >> to find him in a buisness >> As for N.Z Family thank you I have all the info needed and >> yes some of the grandchildren are still alive.\ >> Hope I have answered all questions >> Thank You Maureen >> >> >> >> The List Guidelines >> >> http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ >> >> The Bedfordshire Surnames List >> >> http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the >> subject and the body of the message >> >> > > > > > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > The Bedfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

In America a storekeeper would be what we in England (says he from France!) call a shop keeper. I don't recall seeing the expression storekeeper used in that context in a census in England. Others may prove me wrong. Equally if he was from New Zealand I don't know what meaning he applied to the word. But it could also mean someone in charge of the stores, a warehouseman, and he would have been an employee rather than someone in business on his own account. So I don't think that he was necessarily self employed What does anyone else think? David --- En date de : Dim 15.11.09, m.leach@xtra.co.nz <m.leach@xtra.co.nz> a écrit : > De: m.leach@xtra.co.nz <m.leach@xtra.co.nz> > Objet: [BDF] daniel ward cross > À: bedford@rootsweb.com > Date: Dimanche 15 Novembre 2009, 12h07 > Thank you all for your responses. > I did have it on Warickshire because that is where he died > and lived .I have contacted all I can there even to the > lawyers who handled his will which I have a copy of.It said > no family and all to Emma His death cert. he died 1930 shows > Emma  still living at Leamington Spa. > The Warickshire archives put me on to the lawyers and > despite many emails they will not answer. I have had someone > in Eng.contact them but they say they have nothing  > although they are on the will . > Why I am on the Bedford list as  Jenny found them in > Bedford on the 1911 cencus I have taken your advice and > looked at directories.Found them in Leamington Spa > 1925  and 1926 but they show Daniel as David > They were married 1902 and his address is shown as 41 > camversham rd reading  age 51 and puts himself down as > a > bachelor   storekeeper   even > at one stage got on to Reading library etc no joy. Emma was > 31  lived at 78 Canfield gardens Hamstead no occupation > but I have seen her in the 1901 cencus as a servant. > So no money there. > Daniels wife in N Z came from a wealthy family but in > Daniels fathers will he did not get any money so I do not > know how he lived financially Thats why I have been trying > to find him in a buisness > As for N.Z Family thank you I have all the info needed and > yes some of the grandchildren are still alive.\ > Hope I have answered all questions > Thank You Maureen > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > The Bedfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message >

Kia Ora Maureen The marriage of Daniel Ward Cross to (possibly) Emma Geary took place Sept Q 1902 at Hampstead. Have you got that cert ? How was he described? Age, Marital status? How old was Emma at the time of the marriage in 1902? Do the ages correspond with other info you have for both in 1901? There is a death of an Emma Cross at Warwick aged 37 at Warwick in 1914 where Daniel later died aged 78 in 1930. Ages can be incorrect if the Informant was unsure, upset or confused. If Emma died in 1914 perhaps Daniel felt able to send money to his children (the youngest would have been about 19) at that time? You wil need that 1902 cert to ascertain Emma's age is consistent throughout. In case you don't have the info or anyone else can help further- Daniel Cross married Ann Hercock in 1876 in New Zealand. Children born in NZ to ANN(IE) & Daniel were Ethel 1880 Herbert 1882 William 1884 Arthur 1886 Percy 1888 Cecil 1890 Annie 1893 Eliza Ann 1895 Francis Lot 1896 Presumably Annie Cross is the one who died aged 68 in 1927? Presumably all the above children are now deceased? Have you checked for a Will 1930/31 for Daniel? Perhaps solicitors were looking for his children after his death? Best wishes! Marlene New Zealand ----- Original Message ----- From: <m.leach@xtra.co.nz> To: <bedford@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 9:39 PM Subject: [BDF] daniel ward cross > Thank you for your replies. > Daniel left N.Z in 1900 he appears in the 1901 cencus > as a widower in a boarding house. living on Pte means. He was born at > chipping north son of Augustine and Rebecca I have confirmed all this. > He left behind 9 children the youngest 5yrs old. > Why I mention the money is that after maybe Emma death some money was sent > back to the children after advertising in N Z for the children. > Decendents alive today were only children when the money arrived but it > made a big difference to their lives.What they want to find out was who > sent it.If I can find Emmas death it may help in newspaper research.The > descendants are in their 80's and has approached our society to find out. > I have spent 2 years tracking and getting certificates etc but have come > to a stand srtill with Emma > > Any help would be great. > Cheers > Maureen > Carterton Historical Society > > > > The List Guidelines > > http://bedfordrootsweb.blogspot.com/ > > The Bedfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/bedf.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEDFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Maureen, This is the same message that you posted in Jan 2008 on the Warwickshire list. It was answered by Gus Tysoe who is a respected member of this list. I appreciate that you're trying to help some elderly people and have been coming up against brick walls, but the answer is basically the same unless you have any new information. Did you ever get Daniel's 1930 death certificate? What information did it contain? Was Emma still alive? Possibly she was the informant. If not who was? Did he perhaps show as a widower, although he lied about that before? Have you tried looking for Warwickshire Wills and Probate records? There must be something official around, but your people will have to be prepared to pay some fees for the data. I'd also look at the source of Daniel's wealth. Was it his own or an inheritance? Perhaps Emma was from a rich family? Was he well off in NZ? All clues of sorts. As for the death of Emma, it's a needle in a haystack. There's hundreds of them. At least if she shows on his death certificate, you know it was after 1930. But please, please, please, give us all the latest data. As a researcher, you know how much effort it has taken you to get there. Don't have us looking for stuff that you already know. Peter in Sydney