Until quite recently, individuals answered a census taker's questions and the census taker recorded their answers. Usually one person per household was consulted and in some cases neighbors supplied the information. The individual being "counted" did not write on the form. The census takers were almost always middle class men. I have seen census forms in the US where areas with a heavily Irish population were marked --"too dangerous to canvas" in the nineteenth century. I have also seen the O in Irish surnames recorded as a middle initial with a period after it on census forms in the US and on other official forms in the US and the UK. This is also why names, both surnames and forenames are often spelled in variant forms from form to form and people sometimes gave inaccurate information, especially about ability to read and write and marital status. They wanted to avoid embarrassing themselves by admitting illiteracy, for example, to a well-dressed, middle class and possibly condescending census taker. The census schedules are not perfect -- just track people's ages from census to census and you'll be convinced. Sometimes the presence or absence of O and Mac, in its variant forms, can be a hint as to when emigration took place because there was a time when the use of O and Mac was dropped and people would have had a practice of using the "legal" form with officials. Resumption began with the rise of the Gaelic league in 1893, but was uneven. Edward MacLysaght's various books on Irish surnames discuss this and are very useful. If you trace far enough back there are a variety of English forms for Gaelic names. O Maolagain, for example, can also be Milligan, Molohan, or Baldwin. (O Maolagain is generally translated as descendant of the Maol (bald one).) claiamhain isteach had a mildly pejorative meaning. Bill Mulligan William H. Mulligan, Jr., Ph.D. Professor of History Graduate Program Coordinator Murray State University Murray KY 42071-3341 USA Office: 1-270-809-6571 Fax: 1-270-809-6587

Thanks for the insight Bill. While John may not have actually filled in the census, he did sign it (which was lovely to see and quite unexpected) and did so as Sullivan. And, seems it actually noted he filled it in, though I am probably mistaken. We know that his son John fought in the 1916 rebellion, but do not know how the rest of the family felt about these activities, though he is mentioned as the first "famous" person in "Bere Island, A Short History" by Ted O'Sullivan. I'm assuming, based on the memorial erected in the Castletownbere square he was considered a famous hero, rather than 'infamous'. It would be nice to find or hear more about this history (which I have read much about) as it pertains to our family and how this situation may apply to the "O", if at all. LOL, yes, I am VERY aware of the wild inaccuracies of many censuses. Thanks to everyone for their thoughts. I believe the baptism certificates I seek, will most likely, show O'Sullivan. Slainte! Lisa -----Original Message----- From: beara-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:beara-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Bill Mulligan Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 12:06 PM To: beara@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BEARA] O'Sullivan or Sullivan? Until quite recently, individuals answered a census taker's questions and the census taker recorded their answers. Usually one person per household was consulted and in some cases neighbors supplied the information. The individual being "counted" did not write on the form. The census takers were almost always middle class men. I have seen census forms in the US where areas with a heavily Irish population were marked --"too dangerous to canvas" in the nineteenth century. I have also seen the O in Irish surnames recorded as a middle initial with a period after it on census forms in the US and on other official forms in the US and the UK. This is also why names, both surnames and forenames are often spelled in variant forms from form to form and people sometimes gave inaccurate information, especially about ability to read and write and marital status. They wanted to avoid embarrassing themselves by admitting illiteracy, for example, to a well-dressed, middle class and possibly condescending census taker. The census schedules are not perfect -- just track people's ages from census to census and you'll be convinced. Sometimes the presence or absence of O and Mac, in its variant forms, can be a hint as to when emigration took place because there was a time when the use of O and Mac was dropped and people would have had a practice of using the "legal" form with officials. Resumption began with the rise of the Gaelic league in 1893, but was uneven. Edward MacLysaght's various books on Irish surnames discuss this and are very useful. If you trace far enough back there are a variety of English forms for Gaelic names. O Maolagain, for example, can also be Milligan, Molohan, or Baldwin. (O Maolagain is generally translated as descendant of the Maol (bald one).) claiamhain isteach had a mildly pejorative meaning. Bill Mulligan William H. Mulligan, Jr., Ph.D. Professor of History Graduate Program Coordinator Murray State University Murray KY 42071-3341 USA Office: 1-270-809-6571 Fax: 1-270-809-6587 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks, Bill. I notice that the 1909 Irish census form has what is labelled as "Signature of Head of Family," to the right of the "Signature of Enumerator" (on the "Household Return (Form A)," one of the image files on the online return).When you say the individual being counted didn't write on the form, do you mean that the enumerator or someone else signed on the head of household's behalf? Brian ________________________________________ From: beara-bounces@rootsweb.com [beara-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Bill Mulligan [billmulligan@murray-ky.net] Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 1:06 PM To: beara@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BEARA] O'Sullivan or Sullivan? Until quite recently, individuals answered a census taker's questions and the census taker recorded their answers. Usually one person per household was consulted and in some cases neighbors supplied the information. The individual being "counted" did not write on the form. The census takers were almost always middle class men. I have seen census forms in the US where areas with a heavily Irish population were marked --"too dangerous to canvas" in the nineteenth century. I have also seen the O in Irish surnames recorded as a middle initial with a period after it on census forms in the US and on other official forms in the US and the UK. This is also why names, both surnames and forenames are often spelled in variant forms from form to form and people sometimes gave inaccurate information, especially about ability to read and write and marital status. They wanted to avoid embarrassing themselves by admitting illiteracy, for example, to a well-dressed, middle class and possibly condescending census taker. The census schedules are not perfect -- just track people's ages from census to census and you'll be convinced. Sometimes the presence or absence of O and Mac, in its variant forms, can be a hint as to when emigration took place because there was a time when the use of O and Mac was dropped and people would have had a practice of using the "legal" form with officials. Resumption began with the rise of the Gaelic league in 1893, but was uneven. Edward MacLysaght's various books on Irish surnames discuss this and are very useful. If you trace far enough back there are a variety of English forms for Gaelic names. O Maolagain, for example, can also be Milligan, Molohan, or Baldwin. (O Maolagain is generally translated as descendant of the Maol (bald one).) claiamhain isteach had a mildly pejorative meaning. Bill Mulligan William H. Mulligan, Jr., Ph.D. Professor of History Graduate Program Coordinator Murray State University Murray KY 42071-3341 USA Office: 1-270-809-6571 Fax: 1-270-809-6587 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I was referring to the information, not the signature. Sorry for the confusion. Bill William H. Mulligan, Jr., Ph.D. Professor of History Graduate Program Coordinator Murray State University Murray KY 42071-3341 USA Office: 1-270-809-6571 Fax: 1-270-809-6587 -----Original Message----- From: beara-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:beara-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of O'Sullivan, Brian P Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 1:46 PM To: beara@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BEARA] O'Sullivan or Sullivan? Thanks, Bill. I notice that the 1909 Irish census form has what is labelled as "Signature of Head of Family," to the right of the "Signature of Enumerator" (on the "Household Return (Form A)," one of the image files on the online return).When you say the individual being counted didn't write on the form, do you mean that the enumerator or someone else signed on the head of household's behalf? Brian ________________________________________ From: beara-bounces@rootsweb.com [beara-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Bill Mulligan [billmulligan@murray-ky.net] Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 1:06 PM To: beara@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BEARA] O'Sullivan or Sullivan? Until quite recently, individuals answered a census taker's questions and the census taker recorded their answers. Usually one person per household was consulted and in some cases neighbors supplied the information. The individual being "counted" did not write on the form. The census takers were almost always middle class men. I have seen census forms in the US where areas with a heavily Irish population were marked --"too dangerous to canvas" in the nineteenth century. I have also seen the O in Irish surnames recorded as a middle initial with a period after it on census forms in the US and on other official forms in the US and the UK. This is also why names, both surnames and forenames are often spelled in variant forms from form to form and people sometimes gave inaccurate information, especially about ability to read and write and marital status. They wanted to avoid embarrassing themselves by admitting illiteracy, for example, to a well-dressed, middle class and possibly condescending census taker. The census schedules are not perfect -- just track people's ages from census to census and you'll be convinced. Sometimes the presence or absence of O and Mac, in its variant forms, can be a hint as to when emigration took place because there was a time when the use of O and Mac was dropped and people would have had a practice of using the "legal" form with officials. Resumption began with the rise of the Gaelic league in 1893, but was uneven. Edward MacLysaght's various books on Irish surnames discuss this and are very useful. If you trace far enough back there are a variety of English forms for Gaelic names. O Maolagain, for example, can also be Milligan, Molohan, or Baldwin. (O Maolagain is generally translated as descendant of the Maol (bald one).) claiamhain isteach had a mildly pejorative meaning. Bill Mulligan William H. Mulligan, Jr., Ph.D. Professor of History Graduate Program Coordinator Murray State University Murray KY 42071-3341 USA Office: 1-270-809-6571 Fax: 1-270-809-6587 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message