And everyone didn't go by the "rules"!! Mary Tyrrell At 01:10 AM 7/24/2009, Kevin Kelly wrote: >Laura, > >Remember there might be "lost" children who died in infancy. Many times, >later generations would not be told of them (I suppose sometimes it was a >comfort for the parents to forget, and not speak of them). It can toss a >spanner into what you think should be the "proper" naming order. > >Also, when a child died very young, sometimes the parents would "revive" the >name and use it for a later child. That can muck things up if you were >expecting a nice, tidy story. > >Kevin in MO > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ms A" <sigtab@hotmail.com> >To: <beara@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 11:24 PM >Subject: Re: [BEARA] naming patterns and possible clues to ancestry??? > > > >@kerrykuzzin: > >Thanks for the response. > >Oh, darn...the naming pattern you posted does not work for my family: the >fourth son (instead of the third son) was named after the father... >and the second daughter (not the third) was named after the mother... > >Dang it! > >Thanks much, though, for posting this. I appreciate it! >Laura > > > > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:29:02 -0700 > > From: kerrykuzzin@dslextreme.com > > To: beara@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [BEARA] naming patterns and possible clues to ancestry??? > > > > Laura, > > This is the version that I have seen most often and the one I have in my > > files: > > > > Children within an Irish family were traditionally named according to the > > following pattern: > > First son after father's father > > Second son after mother's father > > Third son after father > > Fourth son after father's oldest brother > > Fifth son after mother's oldest brother > > First daughter after mother's mother > > Second daughter after father's mother > > Third daughter after mother > > Fourth daughter after mother's oldest sister > > Fifth daughter after father's oldest sister > > > > > > On 7/22/09, Ms A <sigtab@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > Hello All, > > > > > > I've been a lurker on this Beara list for years, and enjoy all the > > > posts, > > > and the wealth of valuable info. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!! > > > > > > My question for today: > > > > > > How reliable are the naming patterns of children of a particular > > > Irish-born > > > couple to ascertain the probable names of the parents of said couple? > > > > > > For instance: > > > > > > My ancestors, Eugene Owen Sullivan (born ca 1830, Cork) and Mary Murphy > > > (born ca 1830, Ireland) had the following children, all born in > > > Hannibal, > > > Marion County, MO, in the 1850's/1860's: > > > > > > Ellen H. Sullivan > > > Mary Ellen Sullivan > > > Daniel Joseph Sullivan > > > John J. Sullivan > > > Timothy J. Sullivan > > > Eugene W. Sullivan > > > > > > I'm at that proverbial "brick wall" with my Eugene Sullivan and Mary > > > Murphy > > > and don't know where else to turn to try to find their parents or their > > > parishes/townlands in Ireland. > > > > > > So....How "safe" is it for me to use the names of their children as > > > "clues" > > > that their children were probably named after Eugene and Mary's > > > grandparents, siblings, etc.? And if so, how do the naming patterns > > > usually > > > work? > > > > > > Any opinions? warnings? > > > > > > Thanks a million!! > > > > > > Laura > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Bing brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it > > > now. > > > > http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_MLOGEN_Local_Local_Restaurants_1x1 > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in > > > the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > -- > > Slán, > > Marge in Southern California > > > > Searching: > > Golden, Sullivan, Kelly, Shea, in Kerry and Connecticut > > O'Connor in Kerry > > Fee, Cassidy, Gilbride in Fermanagh, Cavan and Connecticut > > Lynch in Limerick and Connecticut > > Walsh, Stackpole, Garry/Garrey/McGarrey, Donovan in Kildare > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > >_________________________________________________________________ >Windows Live Hotmail®: Search, add, and share the webs latest sports >videos. Check it out. >http://www.windowslive.com/Online/Hotmail/Campaign/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_QA_HM_sports_videos_072009&cat=sports > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in >the subject and the body of the message > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.23/2254 - Release Date: 07/22/09 >05:59:00 > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the >word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the >subject and the body of the message ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mary Tyrrell Executive Director Global Institute of Sustainable Forestry Yale School of Forestry and Environmental Studies 195 Prospect Street New Haven, Connecticut 06511 Phone: 203-432-5983 FAX: 203-432-3809 www.yale.edu/gisf Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
Lisa, Thanks! I'm definitely heeding now... Mary, LOL. True, they didn't all play by the rules, did they? That's another thing I often forget, when ancestor hunting. Thanks! Laura > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 11:39:32 -0400 > To: beara@rootsweb.com; beara@rootsweb.com > From: mary.tyrrell@yale.edu > Subject: Re: [BEARA] naming patterns and possible clues to ancestry??? > > And everyone didn't go by the "rules"!! > > Mary Tyrrell > > At 01:10 AM 7/24/2009, Kevin Kelly wrote: > >Laura, > > > >Remember there might be "lost" children who died in infancy. Many times, > >later generations would not be told of them (I suppose sometimes it was a > >comfort for the parents to forget, and not speak of them). It can toss a > >spanner into what you think should be the "proper" naming order. > > > >Also, when a child died very young, sometimes the parents would "revive" the > >name and use it for a later child. That can muck things up if you were > >expecting a nice, tidy story. > > > >Kevin in MO > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Ms A" <sigtab@hotmail.com> > >To: <beara@rootsweb.com> > >Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 11:24 PM > >Subject: Re: [BEARA] naming patterns and possible clues to ancestry??? > > > > > > > >@kerrykuzzin: > > > >Thanks for the response. > > > >Oh, darn...the naming pattern you posted does not work for my family: the > >fourth son (instead of the third son) was named after the father... > >and the second daughter (not the third) was named after the mother... > > > >Dang it! > > > >Thanks much, though, for posting this. I appreciate it! > >Laura > > > > > > > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:29:02 -0700 > > > From: kerrykuzzin@dslextreme.com > > > To: beara@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: [BEARA] naming patterns and possible clues to ancestry??? > > > > > > Laura, > > > This is the version that I have seen most often and the one I have in my > > > files: > > > > > > Children within an Irish family were traditionally named according to the > > > following pattern: > > > First son after father's father > > > Second son after mother's father > > > Third son after father > > > Fourth son after father's oldest brother > > > Fifth son after mother's oldest brother > > > First daughter after mother's mother > > > Second daughter after father's mother > > > Third daughter after mother > > > Fourth daughter after mother's oldest sister > > > Fifth daughter after father's oldest sister > > > > > > > > > On 7/22/09, Ms A <sigtab@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello All, > > > > > > > > I've been a lurker on this Beara list for years, and enjoy all the > > > > posts, > > > > and the wealth of valuable info. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!! > > > > > > > > My question for today: > > > > > > > > How reliable are the naming patterns of children of a particular > > > > Irish-born > > > > couple to ascertain the probable names of the parents of said couple? > > > > > > > > For instance: > > > > > > > > My ancestors, Eugene Owen Sullivan (born ca 1830, Cork) and Mary Murphy > > > > (born ca 1830, Ireland) had the following children, all born in > > > > Hannibal, > > > > Marion County, MO, in the 1850's/1860's: > > > > > > > > Ellen H. Sullivan > > > > Mary Ellen Sullivan > > > > Daniel Joseph Sullivan > > > > John J. Sullivan > > > > Timothy J. Sullivan > > > > Eugene W. Sullivan > > > > > > > > I'm at that proverbial "brick wall" with my Eugene Sullivan and Mary > > > > Murphy > > > > and don't know where else to turn to try to find their parents or their > > > > parishes/townlands in Ireland. > > > > > > > > So....How "safe" is it for me to use the names of their children as > > > > "clues" > > > > that their children were probably named after Eugene and Mary's > > > > grandparents, siblings, etc.? And if so, how do the naming patterns > > > > usually > > > > work? > > > > > > > > Any opinions? warnings? > > > > > > > > Thanks a million!! > > > > > > > > Laura > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Bing™ brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it > > > > now. > > > > > > http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_MLOGEN_Local_Local_Restaurants_1x1 > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > quotes in > > > > the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Slán, > > > Marge in Southern California > > > > > > Searching: > > > Golden, Sullivan, Kelly, Shea, in Kerry and Connecticut > > > O'Connor in Kerry > > > Fee, Cassidy, Gilbride in Fermanagh, Cavan and Connecticut > > > Lynch in Limerick and Connecticut > > > Walsh, Stackpole, Garry/Garrey/McGarrey, Donovan in Kildare > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Search, add, and share the web’s latest sports > >videos. Check it out. > >http://www.windowslive.com/Online/Hotmail/Campaign/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_QA_HM_sports_videos_072009&cat=sports > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > >the subject and the body of the message > > > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.23/2254 - Release Date: 07/22/09 > >05:59:00 > > > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > >email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the > >word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > >subject and the body of the message > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Mary Tyrrell > Executive Director > Global Institute of Sustainable Forestry > Yale School of Forestry and Environmental Studies > 195 Prospect Street > New Haven, Connecticut 06511 > Phone: 203-432-5983 > FAX: 203-432-3809 > www.yale.edu/gisf > > > Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Search, add, and share the web’s latest sports videos. Check it out. http://www.windowslive.com/Online/Hotmail/Campaign/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_QA_HM_sports_videos_072009&cat=sports
Mary Tyrrell <mary.tyrrell@yale.edu> writes: > And everyone didn't go by the "rules"!! Of course they didn't! They were Irish, after all. -- Bill