The O or not the O. It can very confusing, if trying to do a family tree. In 1913 my grandfather, Frank Dalton Sullivan. a writer and publisher born in the U.S., added the O because he felt it was more dramatic. Not knowing he made the change, I hunted for O'Sullivan. After much searching I found that my great, great grandfather, a copper miner from Allihies, Beara, County Cork, was Denis Sullivan, and my family tree finally fit together. I understand that the O' was often removed because the English said: If you want to keep your land or feed your family you must take off the O'. Also that the O' means descended from and the Suil in Suileabhan is pronounced Soole. (?) Dalton O'Sullivan San Francisco, CA On 7/17/09 4:11 PM, "Patricia O'Shea" <pkoshea@xtra.co.nz> wrote: > Hi Maggie, I think you are right on the money here. We can speculate all we > like but our folk were often just plain inconsistent. > > My grandfather appears never to have used the O in his surname yet he > addressed letters to my father in New Zealand with the O!! > > My cousins in Ireland do not use the O to this day but I do. Just preference > really. (Although one cousin suggested that to be absolutely correct I > should use the prefix 'ni' rather than the O.) > > I understand there were times when overt Irishness was a disadvantage but I > suspect that everyone knew that SULLIVAN, SHEA, LEARY etc were Irish names > anyway so the use of the O is not the only indicator. > > Great discussion. > Regards, Patsy - New Zealand > And yes I know, in Ireland Patsy is largely a man's name yet my father was > keen for me to have it - I rest my case!! > > Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 7:25 AM > Subject: Re: [BEARA] O'Sullivan or Sullivan? > > >> I think we're all being way too analytical about this. It's been my >> experience that people kept or dropped the O' as they felt like it on >> whatever day they happened to write it or say it. >> >> For example, my mother and her sister both came to the States. The family >> name is O'Leary. My mother dropped it and signed herself or gave as her >> maiden name Mary Leary (most of the time, unless when she decided to write >> Mary O'Leary). Her sister consistently kept it and always signed >> Katherine O'Leary. >> >> Similarly, my distant cousin, Noreen Sullivan was always Sullivan, even >> though the family in Beara is O'Sullivan. >> >> What's more, very few people in Beara use the O' in everyday speech. Most >> of the O'Sullivans there are simply referred to as Sullivan or by a branch >> name. But everyone always knows that these names are preceded by the O' >> formally. >> >> Another case in point. My grandfather's name was John O'Leary. On the >> 1911 census he is listed not as "John O'Leary", but as "Sylvy Leary". >> That's presumably what he told the census taker, or what the census taker, >> who may have already known the family, wrote down that particular day. >> However, that name is the family nickname, not his actual given name. But >> I know who he is because there's my mother, age 2, and her brothers, ages >> 5, 4, and 3, and my great-grandparents and my grandmother, etc. It really >> doesn't matter what he chose to call himself that day or what the census >> taker wrote down. He was who he was. >> >> People used whatever they felt comfortable using on the day they were >> using it. To analyze it further for some sort of sociological or >> historical meaning is, in my view, quite pointless. >> >> Maggie Duffy >> Manhattan and Beara > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message

The o or no o is confusing, in my family tree there is a sullivan who married and O'Sullivan, yet Patrick O'Sullivan had 3 sons 2 kept the O'Sullivan and one dropped the O, so I have cousins that are sullivan and O'Sullivan, finding records were very hard some wrote the census with the O some without, and in san francisco most records were lost > Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 11:11:33 -0700 > From: djos2@earthlink.net > To: beara@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [BEARA] O'Sullivan or Sullivan? > > The O or not the O. It can very confusing, if trying to do a family tree. > In 1913 my grandfather, Frank Dalton Sullivan. a writer and publisher born > in the U.S., added the O because he felt it was more dramatic. Not knowing > he made the change, I hunted for O'Sullivan. After much searching I found > that my great, great grandfather, a copper miner from Allihies, Beara, > County Cork, was Denis Sullivan, and my family tree finally fit together. > I understand that the O' was often removed because the English said: If you > want to keep your land or feed your family you must take off the O'. Also > that the O' means descended from and the Suil in Suileabhan is pronounced > Soole. (?) > > Dalton O'Sullivan San Francisco, CA > > > > On 7/17/09 4:11 PM, "Patricia O'Shea" <pkoshea@xtra.co.nz> wrote: > > > Hi Maggie, I think you are right on the money here. We can speculate all we > > like but our folk were often just plain inconsistent. > > > > My grandfather appears never to have used the O in his surname yet he > > addressed letters to my father in New Zealand with the O!! > > > > My cousins in Ireland do not use the O to this day but I do. Just preference > > really. (Although one cousin suggested that to be absolutely correct I > > should use the prefix 'ni' rather than the O.) > > > > I understand there were times when overt Irishness was a disadvantage but I > > suspect that everyone knew that SULLIVAN, SHEA, LEARY etc were Irish names > > anyway so the use of the O is not the only indicator. > > > > Great discussion. > > Regards, Patsy - New Zealand > > And yes I know, in Ireland Patsy is largely a man's name yet my father was > > keen for me to have it - I rest my case!! > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 7:25 AM > > Subject: Re: [BEARA] O'Sullivan or Sullivan? > > > > > >> I think we're all being way too analytical about this. It's been my > >> experience that people kept or dropped the O' as they felt like it on > >> whatever day they happened to write it or say it. > >> > >> For example, my mother and her sister both came to the States. The family > >> name is O'Leary. My mother dropped it and signed herself or gave as her > >> maiden name Mary Leary (most of the time, unless when she decided to write > >> Mary O'Leary). Her sister consistently kept it and always signed > >> Katherine O'Leary. > >> > >> Similarly, my distant cousin, Noreen Sullivan was always Sullivan, even > >> though the family in Beara is O'Sullivan. > >> > >> What's more, very few people in Beara use the O' in everyday speech. Most > >> of the O'Sullivans there are simply referred to as Sullivan or by a branch > >> name. But everyone always knows that these names are preceded by the O' > >> formally. > >> > >> Another case in point. My grandfather's name was John O'Leary. On the > >> 1911 census he is listed not as "John O'Leary", but as "Sylvy Leary". > >> That's presumably what he told the census taker, or what the census taker, > >> who may have already known the family, wrote down that particular day. > >> However, that name is the family nickname, not his actual given name. But > >> I know who he is because there's my mother, age 2, and her brothers, ages > >> 5, 4, and 3, and my great-grandparents and my grandmother, etc. It really > >> doesn't matter what he chose to call himself that day or what the census > >> taker wrote down. He was who he was. > >> > >> People used whatever they felt comfortable using on the day they were > >> using it. To analyze it further for some sort of sociological or > >> historical meaning is, in my view, quite pointless. > >> > >> Maggie Duffy > >> Manhattan and Beara > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > > the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Search, add, and share the web’s latest sports videos. Check it out. http://www.windowslive.com/Online/Hotmail/Campaign/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_QA_HM_sports_videos_072009&cat=sports