Yes, infant deaths were very common. Our ancestor Jeremiah (named for his maternal gp) was the 5th born and only survivng child of what appears to be at least 9 baptisms---and this was the generation that immigrated! His 1893 birthcertificate, signed by the midwife included the number of previous pregnancies. Otherwise, I would have never thought to search for earlier children. The previous generation (Jeremiah's father, Eugene Sullivan), four children (all sons) either died in infancy or childhood. Marge ----- Original Message ----- From: "O'Sullivan, Brian P" <bposullivan@smcm.edu> To: <beara@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [BEARA] naming patterns and possible clues to ancestry??? It doesn't seem to work for mine, either; no one in my father's generation was named after my grandfather, Cornelius (or his father, also Cornelius). But then again, I think there were at least one or two infant deaths, and I don't know their names or their place in the birth order--so it's possible that the eldest of my father's generation was named Cornelius but didn't survive. I mention this because infant deaths must have been very common, and not knowing about them could throw off our perception of the order of names in a family. Brian ________________________________________ From: beara-bounces@rootsweb.com [beara-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ms A [sigtab@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 12:24 AM To: beara@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BEARA] naming patterns and possible clues to ancestry??? @kerrykuzzin: Thanks for the response. Oh, darn...the naming pattern you posted does not work for my family: the fourth son (instead of the third son) was named after the father... and the second daughter (not the third) was named after the mother... Dang it! Thanks much, though, for posting this. I appreciate it! Laura > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:29:02 -0700 > From: kerrykuzzin@dslextreme.com > To: beara@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [BEARA] naming patterns and possible clues to ancestry??? > > Laura, > This is the version that I have seen most often and the one I have in my > files: > > Children within an Irish family were traditionally named according to the > following pattern: > First son after father's father > Second son after mother's father > Third son after father > Fourth son after father's oldest brother > Fifth son after mother's oldest brother > First daughter after mother's mother > Second daughter after father's mother > Third daughter after mother > Fourth daughter after mother's oldest sister > Fifth daughter after father's oldest sister > > > On 7/22/09, Ms A <sigtab@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > Hello All, > > > > I've been a lurker on this Beara list for years, and enjoy all the > > posts, > > and the wealth of valuable info. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!! > > > > My question for today: > > > > How reliable are the naming patterns of children of a particular > > Irish-born > > couple to ascertain the probable names of the parents of said couple? > > > > For instance: > > > > My ancestors, Eugene Owen Sullivan (born ca 1830, Cork) and Mary Murphy > > (born ca 1830, Ireland) had the following children, all born in > > Hannibal, > > Marion County, MO, in the 1850's/1860's: > > > > Ellen H. Sullivan > > Mary Ellen Sullivan > > Daniel Joseph Sullivan > > John J. Sullivan > > Timothy J. Sullivan > > Eugene W. Sullivan > > > > I'm at that proverbial "brick wall" with my Eugene Sullivan and Mary > > Murphy > > and don't know where else to turn to try to find their parents or their > > parishes/townlands in Ireland. > > > > So....How "safe" is it for me to use the names of their children as > > "clues" > > that their children were probably named after Eugene and Mary's > > grandparents, siblings, etc.? And if so, how do the naming patterns > > usually > > work? > > > > Any opinions? warnings? > > > > Thanks a million!! > > > > Laura > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Bing™ brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it > > now. > > http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_MLOGEN_Local_Local_Restaurants_1x1 > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in > > the subject and the body of the message > > > > > -- > Slán, > Marge in Southern California > > Searching: > Golden, Sullivan, Kelly, Shea, in Kerry and Connecticut > O'Connor in Kerry > Fee, Cassidy, Gilbride in Fermanagh, Cavan and Connecticut > Lynch in Limerick and Connecticut > Walsh, Stackpole, Garry/Garrey/McGarrey, Donovan in Kildare > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Search, add, and share the web’s latest sports videos. 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