Hi all and history buffs in particular......... interesting reference here to new monument commemorating The Fenian Invasion Of Canada. It is an event of far more significance than most conventional historians acknowledge and there is some intriguing 'sub rosa' agendas that were played out between the 'Jacobite' Ancient Irish and Scottish Order and the WASP, East Coast,'Reformed' Masonic Organizations. In a nutshell promises made to the Irish Republican Brotherhood by 'The WASP' establishments when the Fenian fought for and saved the US Republic were broken and the WASPS opportunistically used the Canadian Invasion to settle unfinished business with England while stabbing their Fenian saviors in the back. http://www.irishcentral.com/news/New-monument-commemorates-the-1866-Fenian-invasion-of-Canada-144203145.html Slan is beannacht, Donal O'

Even today, under certain conditions one can get a firsthand sense of the at least some impacts from deforestation. One day my wife and I were walking a ways west of Ballyvaghan, on some hills above the Atlantic coast at the southwest corner of Galway bay. The weather was wretched, foggy and very wet. There was almost no visibility and we had to tread carefully lest our feet suddenly lurch into a puddle and receive a cold bath. As the rough road continued up the hill toward a peat bog (where we would march around for a while like happy idiots, before returning to our rental car), we walked along it and into a very large rectangle of land closely planted with large trees that towered over us. Almost immediately, the wind stilled and the air was suddenly full of song from a myriad of birds. I found this to be a remarkably joyful and moving experience. As the road exited the other side of the rectangle and we once more found ourselves in open land, the bird songs ceased and the stiff wind returned in full force. I realize now that life in general and even how one experiences the weather is closely bound to environmental conditions. Up with trees! Kevin in MO -----Original Message----- From: Reg Volk Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 5:37 PM To: beara@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BEARA] oak tree forests And I thought this also was a good summary of how the woods may have affected our Irish ancestors: http://www.irishoakforests.com/ancient.htm Reg-Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reg Volk" <regvolk@shaw.ca> To: <beara@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 3:28 PM Subject: Re: [BEARA] oak tree forests > Thanks > Thought this had some interesting info: > http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1525/is_n2_v82/ai_19148785/?tag=content;col1 > > Are the old druidic woods all 'lost'? McGillicuddy Reeks? donal? > > When I was in County Laois and the area of Hy Regan, it was mostly clear > cutting of Sitka spruce, In fact I do not recall seeing oaks at all in > the > month of July. > > Reg-Canada > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Gawne" <gawne@cesmail.net> > To: <beara@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 3:06 PM > Subject: Re: [BEARA] oak tree forests > > >> Hi Reg, all, >> >> I'm fairly sure the peat bogs were the result of many millennia of >> decaying vegetation. The disaster that Donal mentioned came about >> because the oak forests had provided an additional sink for water to >> accumulate into. With the oak forests gone, much more water ran off >> and into the bogs. This caused the peat to detach from the places it >> had been loosely anchored, and slowly flow downhill, carrying away all >> before it. >> >> Bill >> >> Reg Volk <regvolk@shaw.ca> writes: >> >>> donal >>> >>> Very interesting info re the oak treees and peat bogs. >>> >>> Just so I get this staright- was it the mass burning of the oak trees >>> that >>> created the peat bogs in Ireland? or abuild up of decaying heather in >>> boggy >>> areas? >>> >>> Guess I best do some research as to how peat is created, as we do not >>> have >>> this in Canada. >>> >>> CHEERS-Reg-Canada >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "donal O'Siodhachain" <dospoet@gmail.com> >>> To: <beara@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 1:17 PM >>> Subject: Re: [BEARA] oak tree forests >>> >>> >>>> Susan, Mary F. et al : a very interesting footnote to this exchange ; >>>> the late 19th, cen 'Kerry Moving Bog' disaster ! >>>> >>>> Most of the highlands in Kerry have either iron pan or clay underlay; >>>> both hold water close to the surface and before the relatively recent >>>> event of 'deep plowing' a quarter century ago to penetrate and breakup >>>> these layers, land was very difficult to drain in the West of ireland >>>> generally. >>>> >>>> With the great forests gone, water could not evaporate proportional to >>>> rainfall and large areas began to turn to into 'quaking ground' ( >>>> swampland) West of present day Knocknagree and North of Geneeveguilla >>>> villages the peat was floating in a giant clay bowl and one last bad >>>> rainfall was the 'last straw'. >>>> >>>> Several hundred thousand cubic meters of peat sludge began to flow >>>> over the rim of the basin and once moving there was an ecological >>>> disaster that destroyed thousands of productive acres as the 'moving >>>> bog' headed for Killarney lakes. This is one of the better newspaper >>>> references from the period. For more detailed information a google of >>>> ' moving bog disaster, Co Kerry ' should produce results. >>>> >>>> http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=NOT18970217.2.2&l=mi&e=-------10--1----0-- >>>> >>>> Slan is beannacht, Donal O' >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 3/27/12, Susan Twomey <mtpv@arcatanet.com> wrote: >>>>> I really appreciate all of your thoughts about the oak forests! >>>>> Provides >>>>> a >>>>> greater understanding of much more... >>>>> >>>>> /Susan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mar 27, 2012, at 9:23 AM, Coletta wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Fascinating, Mary. Thank you. You too, Donal. ~ coletta >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: beara-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:beara-bounces@rootsweb.com] >>>>>> On >>>>>> Behalf Of Mary Funnell >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 2:30 AM >>>>>> To: beara@rootsweb.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: [BEARA] oak tree forests >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear Susan, >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't know about the Irish oak forests, but my county of Sussex in >>>>>> Southern England was the county which was so full of oak forests, >>>>>> that >>>>>> oak >>>>>> was called the Sussex weed. (Bandit country). Between London and >>>>>> the >>>>>> South >>>>>> Coast is only 53 miles, but there are two sets of chalk hills and a >>>>>> swampland of clay (the Weald) in between, and with the dense furze >>>>>> bushes >>>>>> and oak forests, the only way to get to London was by sea, around the >>>>>> English Channel - too dense for roads. Sussex was the last county >>>>>> converted >>>>>> to Christianity in Saxon times, due to these treacherous swampy clay >>>>>> soils >>>>>> and vast dense oak forests, which could both hide natives and impede >>>>>> travellers. From the top of the Ashdown Forest (where Winnie the >>>>>> Pooh >>>>>> lived, and yes, all the places in the books are real) you can see the >>>>>> river >>>>>> systems winding north eastwards to the London shipyards. Even the >>>>>> Romans >>>>>> (who weren't scared of the South Saxons (Sussex people), and who were >>>>>> friendly with >>>>>> them, had to build many of their roads and trackways on top of the >>>>>> chalk >>>>>> downs, due to clay swamplands between London and the coast. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regarding the making of English ships from oaks - yes, they were used >>>>>> in >>>>>> vast quantities. They used Sussex oaks (many from the Ashdown >>>>>> Forest), >>>>>> and >>>>>> from the time the oak was cut down until it reached the London >>>>>> shipyards, >>>>>> it >>>>>> took 3 years to drag the oak through the thick forests in the clay by >>>>>> many >>>>>> oxen. When the weather got too bad, they had to leave the oak stuck >>>>>> in >>>>>> mud >>>>>> until the next season. There are accounts by Daniel Defoe (1700s) >>>>>> where >>>>>> a >>>>>> lady had to have 20 oxen drag her to church in the Weald because the >>>>>> clay >>>>>> was too sticky to walk and another where a priest had to have oxen >>>>>> take >>>>>> him >>>>>> to church, because the horses got stuck in the swampy clay. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regarding the Holy Oaks. In Brighton, (which stands on 7 hills like >>>>>> Rome, >>>>>> but much smaller) we have one hilltop with a Prehistoric Neolithic >>>>>> hillfort >>>>>> 3,500 years old and this site was known as the Holy Oak from ancient >>>>>> times >>>>>> (known as Whitehawk nowadays, which is from the Saxon word for holy >>>>>> oak: >>>>>> Vied ac). It stands near the leylines and Greenwich Meridian which >>>>>> are >>>>>> not >>>>>> far away, so whether this has something to do with it, I don't know. >>>>>> The >>>>>> ley lines certainly attract the visitors from all over the world to >>>>>> this >>>>>> City! >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.whitedragon.org.uk/articles/oak.htm - information on oaks, >>>>>> druids, customs etc. The oak tree can hold 200 or 300 species of >>>>>> wildlife >>>>>> and therefore, is essential to all life, where it exists. Many >>>>>> ancient >>>>>> groups such as the druids revered the oak, and it has appeared on our >>>>>> old >>>>>> British currency, etc. and crowns of leaves. Too much here to go >>>>>> into, >>>>>> but >>>>>> lots of research out there to look at online. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.netplaces.com/irish-history/geography-and-climate/terrain-lakes-a >>>>>> nd-forests.htm includes the bit below: >>>>>> In prehistoric times, Ireland was covered with forests. Most of these >>>>>> trees >>>>>> were oaks, mixed with birch and pine on the hills and with elm, >>>>>> alder, >>>>>> ash, >>>>>> and hawthorn in the lower areas. Other plants grew under the trees. >>>>>> The >>>>>> forest was home to a large variety of animal species. Farmers >>>>>> started >>>>>> cutting down trees about 6,000 years ago, but deforestation didn't >>>>>> become >>>>>> rampant until the 1500s. At that time the English occupiers cut down >>>>>> most >>>>>> of >>>>>> Ireland's oak to use in shipbuilding and barrel making. By the >>>>>> eighteenth >>>>>> century, Ireland had very little forest left and had to import most >>>>>> of >>>>>> its >>>>>> wood. In the twentieth century, Irish people began planting tree >>>>>> farms, >>>>>> and >>>>>> now about 5 percent of the country is covered with trees again. Most >>>>>> of >>>>>> that >>>>>> is commercially grown pine, but some people are working on planting >>>>>> oaks >>>>>> and >>>>>> other native trees again. The forests have been replaced with >>>>>> natural >>>>>> bogs >>>>>> and man-made agricultural fields. >>>>>> >>>>>> Slightly diversing from the Beara list, but as much of Britain had >>>>>> the >>>>>> same >>>>>> coniferous trees as Ireland in ancient times, it makes sense to look >>>>>> at >>>>>> the >>>>>> wider picture in order to find the data for Beara in particular. >>>>>> Good >>>>>> luck! >>>>>> >>>>>> Mary Funnell >>>>>> >>>>>> Brighton >>>>>> East Sussex >>>>>> England >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> From: Susan Twomey <mtpv@arcatanet.com> >>>>>> To: BEARA@rootsweb.com >>>>>> Sent: Friday, 23 March 2012, 18:05 >>>>>> Subject: [BEARA] oak tree forests >>>>>> >>>>>> Does anyone know the history of oak forests in Ireland, especially >>>>>> Beara. >>>>>> Were there ancient forests there? What happened to them. >>>>>> >>>>>> What I have heard is that the ancient and sacred oak forests were a >>>>>> threat >>>>>> to the occupying folks...normans, English et al...because the local >>>>>> folks >>>>>> could hide in them. What is the story in Beara? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>> >>>>>> /Susan Twomey >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>>>> quotes >>>>>> in >>>>>> the subject and the body of the message >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>>>> quotes >>>>>> in >>>>>> the subject and the body of the message >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>>>> quotes >>>>>> in the subject and the body of the message >>>>> >>>>> Susan Twomey >>>>> 319 Howard Heights Rd >>>>> Eureka, CA 95503 >>>>> tel 707-444-2522 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>>> quotes >>>>> in >>>>> the subject and the body of the message >>>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes >>>> in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> >> >> -- Bill >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.927 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4298 - Release Date: 03/27/12 13:55:00

Susan, Mary F. et al : a very interesting footnote to this exchange ; the late 19th, cen 'Kerry Moving Bog' disaster ! Most of the highlands in Kerry have either iron pan or clay underlay; both hold water close to the surface and before the relatively recent event of 'deep plowing' a quarter century ago to penetrate and breakup these layers, land was very difficult to drain in the West of ireland generally. With the great forests gone, water could not evaporate proportional to rainfall and large areas began to turn to into 'quaking ground' ( swampland) West of present day Knocknagree and North of Geneeveguilla villages the peat was floating in a giant clay bowl and one last bad rainfall was the 'last straw'. Several hundred thousand cubic meters of peat sludge began to flow over the rim of the basin and once moving there was an ecological disaster that destroyed thousands of productive acres as the 'moving bog' headed for Killarney lakes. This is one of the better newspaper references from the period. For more detailed information a google of ' moving bog disaster, Co Kerry ' should produce results. http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=NOT18970217.2.2&l=mi&e=-------10--1----0-- Slan is beannacht, Donal O' On 3/27/12, Susan Twomey <mtpv@arcatanet.com> wrote: > I really appreciate all of your thoughts about the oak forests! Provides a > greater understanding of much more... > > /Susan > > > On Mar 27, 2012, at 9:23 AM, Coletta wrote: > >> Fascinating, Mary. Thank you. You too, Donal. ~ coletta >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: beara-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:beara-bounces@rootsweb.com] On >> Behalf Of Mary Funnell >> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 2:30 AM >> To: beara@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [BEARA] oak tree forests >> >> Dear Susan, >> >> I don't know about the Irish oak forests, but my county of Sussex in >> Southern England was the county which was so full of oak forests, that oak >> was called the Sussex weed. (Bandit country). Between London and the >> South >> Coast is only 53 miles, but there are two sets of chalk hills and a >> swampland of clay (the Weald) in between, and with the dense furze bushes >> and oak forests, the only way to get to London was by sea, around the >> English Channel - too dense for roads. Sussex was the last county >> converted >> to Christianity in Saxon times, due to these treacherous swampy clay soils >> and vast dense oak forests, which could both hide natives and impede >> travellers. From the top of the Ashdown Forest (where Winnie the Pooh >> lived, and yes, all the places in the books are real) you can see the >> river >> systems winding north eastwards to the London shipyards. Even the Romans >> (who weren't scared of the South Saxons (Sussex people), and who were >> friendly with >> them, had to build many of their roads and trackways on top of the chalk >> downs, due to clay swamplands between London and the coast. >> >> Regarding the making of English ships from oaks - yes, they were used in >> vast quantities. They used Sussex oaks (many from the Ashdown Forest), >> and >> from the time the oak was cut down until it reached the London shipyards, >> it >> took 3 years to drag the oak through the thick forests in the clay by many >> oxen. When the weather got too bad, they had to leave the oak stuck in >> mud >> until the next season. There are accounts by Daniel Defoe (1700s) where a >> lady had to have 20 oxen drag her to church in the Weald because the clay >> was too sticky to walk and another where a priest had to have oxen take >> him >> to church, because the horses got stuck in the swampy clay. >> >> Regarding the Holy Oaks. In Brighton, (which stands on 7 hills like Rome, >> but much smaller) we have one hilltop with a Prehistoric Neolithic >> hillfort >> 3,500 years old and this site was known as the Holy Oak from ancient times >> (known as Whitehawk nowadays, which is from the Saxon word for holy oak: >> Vied ac). It stands near the leylines and Greenwich Meridian which are >> not >> far away, so whether this has something to do with it, I don't know. The >> ley lines certainly attract the visitors from all over the world to this >> City! >> >> http://www.whitedragon.org.uk/articles/oak.htm - information on oaks, >> druids, customs etc. The oak tree can hold 200 or 300 species of wildlife >> and therefore, is essential to all life, where it exists. Many ancient >> groups such as the druids revered the oak, and it has appeared on our old >> British currency, etc. and crowns of leaves. Too much here to go into, >> but >> lots of research out there to look at online. >> >> http://www.netplaces.com/irish-history/geography-and-climate/terrain-lakes-a >> nd-forests.htm includes the bit below: >> In prehistoric times, Ireland was covered with forests. Most of these >> trees >> were oaks, mixed with birch and pine on the hills and with elm, alder, >> ash, >> and hawthorn in the lower areas. Other plants grew under the trees. The >> forest was home to a large variety of animal species. Farmers started >> cutting down trees about 6,000 years ago, but deforestation didn't become >> rampant until the 1500s. At that time the English occupiers cut down most >> of >> Ireland's oak to use in shipbuilding and barrel making. By the eighteenth >> century, Ireland had very little forest left and had to import most of its >> wood. In the twentieth century, Irish people began planting tree farms, >> and >> now about 5 percent of the country is covered with trees again. Most of >> that >> is commercially grown pine, but some people are working on planting oaks >> and >> other native trees again. The forests have been replaced with natural >> bogs >> and man-made agricultural fields. >> >> Slightly diversing from the Beara list, but as much of Britain had the >> same >> coniferous trees as Ireland in ancient times, it makes sense to look at >> the >> wider picture in order to find the data for Beara in particular. Good >> luck! >> >> Mary Funnell >> >> Brighton >> East Sussex >> England >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Susan Twomey <mtpv@arcatanet.com> >> To: BEARA@rootsweb.com >> Sent: Friday, 23 March 2012, 18:05 >> Subject: [BEARA] oak tree forests >> >> Does anyone know the history of oak forests in Ireland, especially Beara. >> Were there ancient forests there? What happened to them. >> >> What I have heard is that the ancient and sacred oak forests were a threat >> to the occupying folks...normans, English et al...because the local folks >> could hide in them. What is the story in Beara? >> >> Thanks. >> >> /Susan Twomey >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in >> the subject and the body of the message >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in >> the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message > > Susan Twomey > 319 Howard Heights Rd > Eureka, CA 95503 > tel 707-444-2522 > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Reg, all, I'm fairly sure the peat bogs were the result of many millennia of decaying vegetation. The disaster that Donal mentioned came about because the oak forests had provided an additional sink for water to accumulate into. With the oak forests gone, much more water ran off and into the bogs. This caused the peat to detach from the places it had been loosely anchored, and slowly flow downhill, carrying away all before it. Bill Reg Volk <regvolk@shaw.ca> writes: > donal > > Very interesting info re the oak treees and peat bogs. > > Just so I get this staright- was it the mass burning of the oak trees that > created the peat bogs in Ireland? or abuild up of decaying heather in boggy > areas? > > Guess I best do some research as to how peat is created, as we do not have > this in Canada. > > CHEERS-Reg-Canada > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "donal O'Siodhachain" <dospoet@gmail.com> > To: <beara@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 1:17 PM > Subject: Re: [BEARA] oak tree forests > > >> Susan, Mary F. et al : a very interesting footnote to this exchange ; >> the late 19th, cen 'Kerry Moving Bog' disaster ! >> >> Most of the highlands in Kerry have either iron pan or clay underlay; >> both hold water close to the surface and before the relatively recent >> event of 'deep plowing' a quarter century ago to penetrate and breakup >> these layers, land was very difficult to drain in the West of ireland >> generally. >> >> With the great forests gone, water could not evaporate proportional to >> rainfall and large areas began to turn to into 'quaking ground' ( >> swampland) West of present day Knocknagree and North of Geneeveguilla >> villages the peat was floating in a giant clay bowl and one last bad >> rainfall was the 'last straw'. >> >> Several hundred thousand cubic meters of peat sludge began to flow >> over the rim of the basin and once moving there was an ecological >> disaster that destroyed thousands of productive acres as the 'moving >> bog' headed for Killarney lakes. This is one of the better newspaper >> references from the period. For more detailed information a google of >> ' moving bog disaster, Co Kerry ' should produce results. >> >> http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=NOT18970217.2.2&l=mi&e=-------10--1----0-- >> >> Slan is beannacht, Donal O' >> >> >> >> On 3/27/12, Susan Twomey <mtpv@arcatanet.com> wrote: >>> I really appreciate all of your thoughts about the oak forests! Provides >>> a >>> greater understanding of much more... >>> >>> /Susan >>> >>> >>> On Mar 27, 2012, at 9:23 AM, Coletta wrote: >>> >>>> Fascinating, Mary. Thank you. You too, Donal. ~ coletta >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: beara-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:beara-bounces@rootsweb.com] On >>>> Behalf Of Mary Funnell >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 2:30 AM >>>> To: beara@rootsweb.com >>>> Subject: Re: [BEARA] oak tree forests >>>> >>>> Dear Susan, >>>> >>>> I don't know about the Irish oak forests, but my county of Sussex in >>>> Southern England was the county which was so full of oak forests, that >>>> oak >>>> was called the Sussex weed. (Bandit country). Between London and the >>>> South >>>> Coast is only 53 miles, but there are two sets of chalk hills and a >>>> swampland of clay (the Weald) in between, and with the dense furze >>>> bushes >>>> and oak forests, the only way to get to London was by sea, around the >>>> English Channel - too dense for roads. Sussex was the last county >>>> converted >>>> to Christianity in Saxon times, due to these treacherous swampy clay >>>> soils >>>> and vast dense oak forests, which could both hide natives and impede >>>> travellers. From the top of the Ashdown Forest (where Winnie the Pooh >>>> lived, and yes, all the places in the books are real) you can see the >>>> river >>>> systems winding north eastwards to the London shipyards. Even the >>>> Romans >>>> (who weren't scared of the South Saxons (Sussex people), and who were >>>> friendly with >>>> them, had to build many of their roads and trackways on top of the chalk >>>> downs, due to clay swamplands between London and the coast. >>>> >>>> Regarding the making of English ships from oaks - yes, they were used in >>>> vast quantities. They used Sussex oaks (many from the Ashdown Forest), >>>> and >>>> from the time the oak was cut down until it reached the London >>>> shipyards, >>>> it >>>> took 3 years to drag the oak through the thick forests in the clay by >>>> many >>>> oxen. When the weather got too bad, they had to leave the oak stuck in >>>> mud >>>> until the next season. There are accounts by Daniel Defoe (1700s) where >>>> a >>>> lady had to have 20 oxen drag her to church in the Weald because the >>>> clay >>>> was too sticky to walk and another where a priest had to have oxen take >>>> him >>>> to church, because the horses got stuck in the swampy clay. >>>> >>>> Regarding the Holy Oaks. In Brighton, (which stands on 7 hills like >>>> Rome, >>>> but much smaller) we have one hilltop with a Prehistoric Neolithic >>>> hillfort >>>> 3,500 years old and this site was known as the Holy Oak from ancient >>>> times >>>> (known as Whitehawk nowadays, which is from the Saxon word for holy oak: >>>> Vied ac). It stands near the leylines and Greenwich Meridian which are >>>> not >>>> far away, so whether this has something to do with it, I don't know. >>>> The >>>> ley lines certainly attract the visitors from all over the world to this >>>> City! >>>> >>>> http://www.whitedragon.org.uk/articles/oak.htm - information on oaks, >>>> druids, customs etc. The oak tree can hold 200 or 300 species of >>>> wildlife >>>> and therefore, is essential to all life, where it exists. Many ancient >>>> groups such as the druids revered the oak, and it has appeared on our >>>> old >>>> British currency, etc. and crowns of leaves. Too much here to go into, >>>> but >>>> lots of research out there to look at online. >>>> >>>> http://www.netplaces.com/irish-history/geography-and-climate/terrain-lakes-a >>>> nd-forests.htm includes the bit below: >>>> In prehistoric times, Ireland was covered with forests. Most of these >>>> trees >>>> were oaks, mixed with birch and pine on the hills and with elm, alder, >>>> ash, >>>> and hawthorn in the lower areas. Other plants grew under the trees. The >>>> forest was home to a large variety of animal species. Farmers started >>>> cutting down trees about 6,000 years ago, but deforestation didn't >>>> become >>>> rampant until the 1500s. At that time the English occupiers cut down >>>> most >>>> of >>>> Ireland's oak to use in shipbuilding and barrel making. By the >>>> eighteenth >>>> century, Ireland had very little forest left and had to import most of >>>> its >>>> wood. In the twentieth century, Irish people began planting tree farms, >>>> and >>>> now about 5 percent of the country is covered with trees again. Most of >>>> that >>>> is commercially grown pine, but some people are working on planting oaks >>>> and >>>> other native trees again. The forests have been replaced with natural >>>> bogs >>>> and man-made agricultural fields. >>>> >>>> Slightly diversing from the Beara list, but as much of Britain had the >>>> same >>>> coniferous trees as Ireland in ancient times, it makes sense to look at >>>> the >>>> wider picture in order to find the data for Beara in particular. Good >>>> luck! >>>> >>>> Mary Funnell >>>> >>>> Brighton >>>> East Sussex >>>> England >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> From: Susan Twomey <mtpv@arcatanet.com> >>>> To: BEARA@rootsweb.com >>>> Sent: Friday, 23 March 2012, 18:05 >>>> Subject: [BEARA] oak tree forests >>>> >>>> Does anyone know the history of oak forests in Ireland, especially >>>> Beara. >>>> Were there ancient forests there? What happened to them. >>>> >>>> What I have heard is that the ancient and sacred oak forests were a >>>> threat >>>> to the occupying folks...normans, English et al...because the local >>>> folks >>>> could hide in them. What is the story in Beara? >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> >>>> /Susan Twomey >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes >>>> in >>>> the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes >>>> in >>>> the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes >>>> in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> Susan Twomey >>> 319 Howard Heights Rd >>> Eureka, CA 95503 >>> tel 707-444-2522 >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >>> in >>> the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Bill

And I thought this also was a good summary of how the woods may have affected our Irish ancestors: http://www.irishoakforests.com/ancient.htm Reg-Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reg Volk" <regvolk@shaw.ca> To: <beara@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 3:28 PM Subject: Re: [BEARA] oak tree forests > Thanks > Thought this had some interesting info: > http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1525/is_n2_v82/ai_19148785/?tag=content;col1 > > Are the old druidic woods all 'lost'? McGillicuddy Reeks? donal? > > When I was in County Laois and the area of Hy Regan, it was mostly clear > cutting of Sitka spruce, In fact I do not recall seeing oaks at all in > the > month of July. > > Reg-Canada > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Gawne" <gawne@cesmail.net> > To: <beara@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 3:06 PM > Subject: Re: [BEARA] oak tree forests > > >> Hi Reg, all, >> >> I'm fairly sure the peat bogs were the result of many millennia of >> decaying vegetation. The disaster that Donal mentioned came about >> because the oak forests had provided an additional sink for water to >> accumulate into. With the oak forests gone, much more water ran off >> and into the bogs. This caused the peat to detach from the places it >> had been loosely anchored, and slowly flow downhill, carrying away all >> before it. >> >> Bill >> >> Reg Volk <regvolk@shaw.ca> writes: >> >>> donal >>> >>> Very interesting info re the oak treees and peat bogs. >>> >>> Just so I get this staright- was it the mass burning of the oak trees >>> that >>> created the peat bogs in Ireland? or abuild up of decaying heather in >>> boggy >>> areas? >>> >>> Guess I best do some research as to how peat is created, as we do not >>> have >>> this in Canada. >>> >>> CHEERS-Reg-Canada >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "donal O'Siodhachain" <dospoet@gmail.com> >>> To: <beara@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 1:17 PM >>> Subject: Re: [BEARA] oak tree forests >>> >>> >>>> Susan, Mary F. et al : a very interesting footnote to this exchange ; >>>> the late 19th, cen 'Kerry Moving Bog' disaster ! >>>> >>>> Most of the highlands in Kerry have either iron pan or clay underlay; >>>> both hold water close to the surface and before the relatively recent >>>> event of 'deep plowing' a quarter century ago to penetrate and breakup >>>> these layers, land was very difficult to drain in the West of ireland >>>> generally. >>>> >>>> With the great forests gone, water could not evaporate proportional to >>>> rainfall and large areas began to turn to into 'quaking ground' ( >>>> swampland) West of present day Knocknagree and North of Geneeveguilla >>>> villages the peat was floating in a giant clay bowl and one last bad >>>> rainfall was the 'last straw'. >>>> >>>> Several hundred thousand cubic meters of peat sludge began to flow >>>> over the rim of the basin and once moving there was an ecological >>>> disaster that destroyed thousands of productive acres as the 'moving >>>> bog' headed for Killarney lakes. This is one of the better newspaper >>>> references from the period. For more detailed information a google of >>>> ' moving bog disaster, Co Kerry ' should produce results. >>>> >>>> http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=NOT18970217.2.2&l=mi&e=-------10--1----0-- >>>> >>>> Slan is beannacht, Donal O' >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 3/27/12, Susan Twomey <mtpv@arcatanet.com> wrote: >>>>> I really appreciate all of your thoughts about the oak forests! >>>>> Provides >>>>> a >>>>> greater understanding of much more... >>>>> >>>>> /Susan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mar 27, 2012, at 9:23 AM, Coletta wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Fascinating, Mary. Thank you. You too, Donal. ~ coletta >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: beara-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:beara-bounces@rootsweb.com] >>>>>> On >>>>>> Behalf Of Mary Funnell >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 2:30 AM >>>>>> To: beara@rootsweb.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: [BEARA] oak tree forests >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear Susan, >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't know about the Irish oak forests, but my county of Sussex in >>>>>> Southern England was the county which was so full of oak forests, >>>>>> that >>>>>> oak >>>>>> was called the Sussex weed. (Bandit country). Between London and >>>>>> the >>>>>> South >>>>>> Coast is only 53 miles, but there are two sets of chalk hills and a >>>>>> swampland of clay (the Weald) in between, and with the dense furze >>>>>> bushes >>>>>> and oak forests, the only way to get to London was by sea, around the >>>>>> English Channel - too dense for roads. Sussex was the last county >>>>>> converted >>>>>> to Christianity in Saxon times, due to these treacherous swampy clay >>>>>> soils >>>>>> and vast dense oak forests, which could both hide natives and impede >>>>>> travellers. From the top of the Ashdown Forest (where Winnie the >>>>>> Pooh >>>>>> lived, and yes, all the places in the books are real) you can see the >>>>>> river >>>>>> systems winding north eastwards to the London shipyards. Even the >>>>>> Romans >>>>>> (who weren't scared of the South Saxons (Sussex people), and who were >>>>>> friendly with >>>>>> them, had to build many of their roads and trackways on top of the >>>>>> chalk >>>>>> downs, due to clay swamplands between London and the coast. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regarding the making of English ships from oaks - yes, they were used >>>>>> in >>>>>> vast quantities. They used Sussex oaks (many from the Ashdown >>>>>> Forest), >>>>>> and >>>>>> from the time the oak was cut down until it reached the London >>>>>> shipyards, >>>>>> it >>>>>> took 3 years to drag the oak through the thick forests in the clay by >>>>>> many >>>>>> oxen. When the weather got too bad, they had to leave the oak stuck >>>>>> in >>>>>> mud >>>>>> until the next season. There are accounts by Daniel Defoe (1700s) >>>>>> where >>>>>> a >>>>>> lady had to have 20 oxen drag her to church in the Weald because the >>>>>> clay >>>>>> was too sticky to walk and another where a priest had to have oxen >>>>>> take >>>>>> him >>>>>> to church, because the horses got stuck in the swampy clay. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regarding the Holy Oaks. In Brighton, (which stands on 7 hills like >>>>>> Rome, >>>>>> but much smaller) we have one hilltop with a Prehistoric Neolithic >>>>>> hillfort >>>>>> 3,500 years old and this site was known as the Holy Oak from ancient >>>>>> times >>>>>> (known as Whitehawk nowadays, which is from the Saxon word for holy >>>>>> oak: >>>>>> Vied ac). It stands near the leylines and Greenwich Meridian which >>>>>> are >>>>>> not >>>>>> far away, so whether this has something to do with it, I don't know. >>>>>> The >>>>>> ley lines certainly attract the visitors from all over the world to >>>>>> this >>>>>> City! >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.whitedragon.org.uk/articles/oak.htm - information on oaks, >>>>>> druids, customs etc. The oak tree can hold 200 or 300 species of >>>>>> wildlife >>>>>> and therefore, is essential to all life, where it exists. Many >>>>>> ancient >>>>>> groups such as the druids revered the oak, and it has appeared on our >>>>>> old >>>>>> British currency, etc. and crowns of leaves. Too much here to go >>>>>> into, >>>>>> but >>>>>> lots of research out there to look at online. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.netplaces.com/irish-history/geography-and-climate/terrain-lakes-a >>>>>> nd-forests.htm includes the bit below: >>>>>> In prehistoric times, Ireland was covered with forests. Most of these >>>>>> trees >>>>>> were oaks, mixed with birch and pine on the hills and with elm, >>>>>> alder, >>>>>> ash, >>>>>> and hawthorn in the lower areas. Other plants grew under the trees. >>>>>> The >>>>>> forest was home to a large variety of animal species. Farmers >>>>>> started >>>>>> cutting down trees about 6,000 years ago, but deforestation didn't >>>>>> become >>>>>> rampant until the 1500s. At that time the English occupiers cut down >>>>>> most >>>>>> of >>>>>> Ireland's oak to use in shipbuilding and barrel making. By the >>>>>> eighteenth >>>>>> century, Ireland had very little forest left and had to import most >>>>>> of >>>>>> its >>>>>> wood. In the twentieth century, Irish people began planting tree >>>>>> farms, >>>>>> and >>>>>> now about 5 percent of the country is covered with trees again. Most >>>>>> of >>>>>> that >>>>>> is commercially grown pine, but some people are working on planting >>>>>> oaks >>>>>> and >>>>>> other native trees again. The forests have been replaced with >>>>>> natural >>>>>> bogs >>>>>> and man-made agricultural fields. >>>>>> >>>>>> Slightly diversing from the Beara list, but as much of Britain had >>>>>> the >>>>>> same >>>>>> coniferous trees as Ireland in ancient times, it makes sense to look >>>>>> at >>>>>> the >>>>>> wider picture in order to find the data for Beara in particular. >>>>>> Good >>>>>> luck! >>>>>> >>>>>> Mary Funnell >>>>>> >>>>>> Brighton >>>>>> East Sussex >>>>>> England >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> From: Susan Twomey <mtpv@arcatanet.com> >>>>>> To: BEARA@rootsweb.com >>>>>> Sent: Friday, 23 March 2012, 18:05 >>>>>> Subject: [BEARA] oak tree forests >>>>>> >>>>>> Does anyone know the history of oak forests in Ireland, especially >>>>>> Beara. >>>>>> Were there ancient forests there? What happened to them. >>>>>> >>>>>> What I have heard is that the ancient and sacred oak forests were a >>>>>> threat >>>>>> to the occupying folks...normans, English et al...because the local >>>>>> folks >>>>>> could hide in them. What is the story in Beara? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>> >>>>>> /Susan Twomey >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>>>> quotes >>>>>> in >>>>>> the subject and the body of the message >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>>>> quotes >>>>>> in >>>>>> the subject and the body of the message >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>>>> quotes >>>>>> in the subject and the body of the message >>>>> >>>>> Susan Twomey >>>>> 319 Howard Heights Rd >>>>> Eureka, CA 95503 >>>>> tel 707-444-2522 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>>> quotes >>>>> in >>>>> the subject and the body of the message >>>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes >>>> in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> >> >> -- Bill >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Thought this had some interesting info: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1525/is_n2_v82/ai_19148785/?tag=content;col1 Are the old druidic woods all 'lost'? McGillicuddy Reeks? donal? When I was in County Laois and the area of Hy Regan, it was mostly clear cutting of Sitka spruce, In fact I do not recall seeing oaks at all in the month of July. Reg-Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Gawne" <gawne@cesmail.net> To: <beara@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [BEARA] oak tree forests > Hi Reg, all, > > I'm fairly sure the peat bogs were the result of many millennia of > decaying vegetation. The disaster that Donal mentioned came about > because the oak forests had provided an additional sink for water to > accumulate into. With the oak forests gone, much more water ran off > and into the bogs. This caused the peat to detach from the places it > had been loosely anchored, and slowly flow downhill, carrying away all > before it. > > Bill > > Reg Volk <regvolk@shaw.ca> writes: > >> donal >> >> Very interesting info re the oak treees and peat bogs. >> >> Just so I get this staright- was it the mass burning of the oak trees >> that >> created the peat bogs in Ireland? or abuild up of decaying heather in >> boggy >> areas? >> >> Guess I best do some research as to how peat is created, as we do not >> have >> this in Canada. >> >> CHEERS-Reg-Canada >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "donal O'Siodhachain" <dospoet@gmail.com> >> To: <beara@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 1:17 PM >> Subject: Re: [BEARA] oak tree forests >> >> >>> Susan, Mary F. et al : a very interesting footnote to this exchange ; >>> the late 19th, cen 'Kerry Moving Bog' disaster ! >>> >>> Most of the highlands in Kerry have either iron pan or clay underlay; >>> both hold water close to the surface and before the relatively recent >>> event of 'deep plowing' a quarter century ago to penetrate and breakup >>> these layers, land was very difficult to drain in the West of ireland >>> generally. >>> >>> With the great forests gone, water could not evaporate proportional to >>> rainfall and large areas began to turn to into 'quaking ground' ( >>> swampland) West of present day Knocknagree and North of Geneeveguilla >>> villages the peat was floating in a giant clay bowl and one last bad >>> rainfall was the 'last straw'. >>> >>> Several hundred thousand cubic meters of peat sludge began to flow >>> over the rim of the basin and once moving there was an ecological >>> disaster that destroyed thousands of productive acres as the 'moving >>> bog' headed for Killarney lakes. This is one of the better newspaper >>> references from the period. For more detailed information a google of >>> ' moving bog disaster, Co Kerry ' should produce results. >>> >>> http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=NOT18970217.2.2&l=mi&e=-------10--1----0-- >>> >>> Slan is beannacht, Donal O' >>> >>> >>> >>> On 3/27/12, Susan Twomey <mtpv@arcatanet.com> wrote: >>>> I really appreciate all of your thoughts about the oak forests! >>>> Provides >>>> a >>>> greater understanding of much more... >>>> >>>> /Susan >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mar 27, 2012, at 9:23 AM, Coletta wrote: >>>> >>>>> Fascinating, Mary. Thank you. You too, Donal. ~ coletta >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: beara-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:beara-bounces@rootsweb.com] >>>>> On >>>>> Behalf Of Mary Funnell >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 2:30 AM >>>>> To: beara@rootsweb.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [BEARA] oak tree forests >>>>> >>>>> Dear Susan, >>>>> >>>>> I don't know about the Irish oak forests, but my county of Sussex in >>>>> Southern England was the county which was so full of oak forests, that >>>>> oak >>>>> was called the Sussex weed. (Bandit country). Between London and the >>>>> South >>>>> Coast is only 53 miles, but there are two sets of chalk hills and a >>>>> swampland of clay (the Weald) in between, and with the dense furze >>>>> bushes >>>>> and oak forests, the only way to get to London was by sea, around the >>>>> English Channel - too dense for roads. Sussex was the last county >>>>> converted >>>>> to Christianity in Saxon times, due to these treacherous swampy clay >>>>> soils >>>>> and vast dense oak forests, which could both hide natives and impede >>>>> travellers. From the top of the Ashdown Forest (where Winnie the Pooh >>>>> lived, and yes, all the places in the books are real) you can see the >>>>> river >>>>> systems winding north eastwards to the London shipyards. Even the >>>>> Romans >>>>> (who weren't scared of the South Saxons (Sussex people), and who were >>>>> friendly with >>>>> them, had to build many of their roads and trackways on top of the >>>>> chalk >>>>> downs, due to clay swamplands between London and the coast. >>>>> >>>>> Regarding the making of English ships from oaks - yes, they were used >>>>> in >>>>> vast quantities. They used Sussex oaks (many from the Ashdown >>>>> Forest), >>>>> and >>>>> from the time the oak was cut down until it reached the London >>>>> shipyards, >>>>> it >>>>> took 3 years to drag the oak through the thick forests in the clay by >>>>> many >>>>> oxen. When the weather got too bad, they had to leave the oak stuck >>>>> in >>>>> mud >>>>> until the next season. There are accounts by Daniel Defoe (1700s) >>>>> where >>>>> a >>>>> lady had to have 20 oxen drag her to church in the Weald because the >>>>> clay >>>>> was too sticky to walk and another where a priest had to have oxen >>>>> take >>>>> him >>>>> to church, because the horses got stuck in the swampy clay. >>>>> >>>>> Regarding the Holy Oaks. In Brighton, (which stands on 7 hills like >>>>> Rome, >>>>> but much smaller) we have one hilltop with a Prehistoric Neolithic >>>>> hillfort >>>>> 3,500 years old and this site was known as the Holy Oak from ancient >>>>> times >>>>> (known as Whitehawk nowadays, which is from the Saxon word for holy >>>>> oak: >>>>> Vied ac). It stands near the leylines and Greenwich Meridian which >>>>> are >>>>> not >>>>> far away, so whether this has something to do with it, I don't know. >>>>> The >>>>> ley lines certainly attract the visitors from all over the world to >>>>> this >>>>> City! >>>>> >>>>> http://www.whitedragon.org.uk/articles/oak.htm - information on oaks, >>>>> druids, customs etc. The oak tree can hold 200 or 300 species of >>>>> wildlife >>>>> and therefore, is essential to all life, where it exists. Many >>>>> ancient >>>>> groups such as the druids revered the oak, and it has appeared on our >>>>> old >>>>> British currency, etc. and crowns of leaves. Too much here to go >>>>> into, >>>>> but >>>>> lots of research out there to look at online. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.netplaces.com/irish-history/geography-and-climate/terrain-lakes-a >>>>> nd-forests.htm includes the bit below: >>>>> In prehistoric times, Ireland was covered with forests. Most of these >>>>> trees >>>>> were oaks, mixed with birch and pine on the hills and with elm, alder, >>>>> ash, >>>>> and hawthorn in the lower areas. Other plants grew under the trees. >>>>> The >>>>> forest was home to a large variety of animal species. Farmers started >>>>> cutting down trees about 6,000 years ago, but deforestation didn't >>>>> become >>>>> rampant until the 1500s. At that time the English occupiers cut down >>>>> most >>>>> of >>>>> Ireland's oak to use in shipbuilding and barrel making. By the >>>>> eighteenth >>>>> century, Ireland had very little forest left and had to import most of >>>>> its >>>>> wood. In the twentieth century, Irish people began planting tree >>>>> farms, >>>>> and >>>>> now about 5 percent of the country is covered with trees again. Most >>>>> of >>>>> that >>>>> is commercially grown pine, but some people are working on planting >>>>> oaks >>>>> and >>>>> other native trees again. The forests have been replaced with natural >>>>> bogs >>>>> and man-made agricultural fields. >>>>> >>>>> Slightly diversing from the Beara list, but as much of Britain had the >>>>> same >>>>> coniferous trees as Ireland in ancient times, it makes sense to look >>>>> at >>>>> the >>>>> wider picture in order to find the data for Beara in particular. Good >>>>> luck! >>>>> >>>>> Mary Funnell >>>>> >>>>> Brighton >>>>> East Sussex >>>>> England >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> From: Susan Twomey <mtpv@arcatanet.com> >>>>> To: BEARA@rootsweb.com >>>>> Sent: Friday, 23 March 2012, 18:05 >>>>> Subject: [BEARA] oak tree forests >>>>> >>>>> Does anyone know the history of oak forests in Ireland, especially >>>>> Beara. >>>>> Were there ancient forests there? What happened to them. >>>>> >>>>> What I have heard is that the ancient and sacred oak forests were a >>>>> threat >>>>> to the occupying folks...normans, English et al...because the local >>>>> folks >>>>> could hide in them. What is the story in Beara? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. >>>>> >>>>> /Susan Twomey >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>>> quotes >>>>> in >>>>> the subject and the body of the message >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>>> quotes >>>>> in >>>>> the subject and the body of the message >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>>> quotes >>>>> in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> Susan Twomey >>>> 319 Howard Heights Rd >>>> Eureka, CA 95503 >>>> tel 707-444-2522 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes >>>> in >>>> the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes >>> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > -- Bill > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

donal Very interesting info re the oak treees and peat bogs. Just so I get this staright- was it the mass burning of the oak trees that created the peat bogs in Ireland? or abuild up of decaying heather in boggy areas? Guess I best do some research as to how peat is created, as we do not have this in Canada. CHEERS-Reg-Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "donal O'Siodhachain" <dospoet@gmail.com> To: <beara@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [BEARA] oak tree forests > Susan, Mary F. et al : a very interesting footnote to this exchange ; > the late 19th, cen 'Kerry Moving Bog' disaster ! > > Most of the highlands in Kerry have either iron pan or clay underlay; > both hold water close to the surface and before the relatively recent > event of 'deep plowing' a quarter century ago to penetrate and breakup > these layers, land was very difficult to drain in the West of ireland > generally. > > With the great forests gone, water could not evaporate proportional to > rainfall and large areas began to turn to into 'quaking ground' ( > swampland) West of present day Knocknagree and North of Geneeveguilla > villages the peat was floating in a giant clay bowl and one last bad > rainfall was the 'last straw'. > > Several hundred thousand cubic meters of peat sludge began to flow > over the rim of the basin and once moving there was an ecological > disaster that destroyed thousands of productive acres as the 'moving > bog' headed for Killarney lakes. This is one of the better newspaper > references from the period. For more detailed information a google of > ' moving bog disaster, Co Kerry ' should produce results. > > http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=NOT18970217.2.2&l=mi&e=-------10--1----0-- > > Slan is beannacht, Donal O' > > > > On 3/27/12, Susan Twomey <mtpv@arcatanet.com> wrote: >> I really appreciate all of your thoughts about the oak forests! Provides >> a >> greater understanding of much more... >> >> /Susan >> >> >> On Mar 27, 2012, at 9:23 AM, Coletta wrote: >> >>> Fascinating, Mary. Thank you. You too, Donal. ~ coletta >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: beara-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:beara-bounces@rootsweb.com] On >>> Behalf Of Mary Funnell >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 2:30 AM >>> To: beara@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: Re: [BEARA] oak tree forests >>> >>> Dear Susan, >>> >>> I don't know about the Irish oak forests, but my county of Sussex in >>> Southern England was the county which was so full of oak forests, that >>> oak >>> was called the Sussex weed. (Bandit country). Between London and the >>> South >>> Coast is only 53 miles, but there are two sets of chalk hills and a >>> swampland of clay (the Weald) in between, and with the dense furze >>> bushes >>> and oak forests, the only way to get to London was by sea, around the >>> English Channel - too dense for roads. Sussex was the last county >>> converted >>> to Christianity in Saxon times, due to these treacherous swampy clay >>> soils >>> and vast dense oak forests, which could both hide natives and impede >>> travellers. From the top of the Ashdown Forest (where Winnie the Pooh >>> lived, and yes, all the places in the books are real) you can see the >>> river >>> systems winding north eastwards to the London shipyards. Even the >>> Romans >>> (who weren't scared of the South Saxons (Sussex people), and who were >>> friendly with >>> them, had to build many of their roads and trackways on top of the chalk >>> downs, due to clay swamplands between London and the coast. >>> >>> Regarding the making of English ships from oaks - yes, they were used in >>> vast quantities. They used Sussex oaks (many from the Ashdown Forest), >>> and >>> from the time the oak was cut down until it reached the London >>> shipyards, >>> it >>> took 3 years to drag the oak through the thick forests in the clay by >>> many >>> oxen. When the weather got too bad, they had to leave the oak stuck in >>> mud >>> until the next season. There are accounts by Daniel Defoe (1700s) where >>> a >>> lady had to have 20 oxen drag her to church in the Weald because the >>> clay >>> was too sticky to walk and another where a priest had to have oxen take >>> him >>> to church, because the horses got stuck in the swampy clay. >>> >>> Regarding the Holy Oaks. In Brighton, (which stands on 7 hills like >>> Rome, >>> but much smaller) we have one hilltop with a Prehistoric Neolithic >>> hillfort >>> 3,500 years old and this site was known as the Holy Oak from ancient >>> times >>> (known as Whitehawk nowadays, which is from the Saxon word for holy oak: >>> Vied ac). It stands near the leylines and Greenwich Meridian which are >>> not >>> far away, so whether this has something to do with it, I don't know. >>> The >>> ley lines certainly attract the visitors from all over the world to this >>> City! >>> >>> http://www.whitedragon.org.uk/articles/oak.htm - information on oaks, >>> druids, customs etc. The oak tree can hold 200 or 300 species of >>> wildlife >>> and therefore, is essential to all life, where it exists. Many ancient >>> groups such as the druids revered the oak, and it has appeared on our >>> old >>> British currency, etc. and crowns of leaves. Too much here to go into, >>> but >>> lots of research out there to look at online. >>> >>> http://www.netplaces.com/irish-history/geography-and-climate/terrain-lakes-a >>> nd-forests.htm includes the bit below: >>> In prehistoric times, Ireland was covered with forests. Most of these >>> trees >>> were oaks, mixed with birch and pine on the hills and with elm, alder, >>> ash, >>> and hawthorn in the lower areas. Other plants grew under the trees. The >>> forest was home to a large variety of animal species. Farmers started >>> cutting down trees about 6,000 years ago, but deforestation didn't >>> become >>> rampant until the 1500s. At that time the English occupiers cut down >>> most >>> of >>> Ireland's oak to use in shipbuilding and barrel making. By the >>> eighteenth >>> century, Ireland had very little forest left and had to import most of >>> its >>> wood. In the twentieth century, Irish people began planting tree farms, >>> and >>> now about 5 percent of the country is covered with trees again. Most of >>> that >>> is commercially grown pine, but some people are working on planting oaks >>> and >>> other native trees again. The forests have been replaced with natural >>> bogs >>> and man-made agricultural fields. >>> >>> Slightly diversing from the Beara list, but as much of Britain had the >>> same >>> coniferous trees as Ireland in ancient times, it makes sense to look at >>> the >>> wider picture in order to find the data for Beara in particular. Good >>> luck! >>> >>> Mary Funnell >>> >>> Brighton >>> East Sussex >>> England >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: Susan Twomey <mtpv@arcatanet.com> >>> To: BEARA@rootsweb.com >>> Sent: Friday, 23 March 2012, 18:05 >>> Subject: [BEARA] oak tree forests >>> >>> Does anyone know the history of oak forests in Ireland, especially >>> Beara. >>> Were there ancient forests there? What happened to them. >>> >>> What I have heard is that the ancient and sacred oak forests were a >>> threat >>> to the occupying folks...normans, English et al...because the local >>> folks >>> could hide in them. What is the story in Beara? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> /Susan Twomey >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes >>> in >>> the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes >>> in >>> the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes >>> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> Susan Twomey >> 319 Howard Heights Rd >> Eureka, CA 95503 >> tel 707-444-2522 >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in >> the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Mary : great, very informative, thanks! The main difference between the Irish and UK forest clearances in the 1500's was that the UK woods were in the main harvested and put to productively uses, the Irish ones were in the main just destroyed. "........ Many ancient groups such as the druids revered the oak, and it has appeared on our old British currency, etc. and crowns of leaves. Too much here to go into, but lots of research out there to look at online....." In the Bardic tradition what the Romans called 'The Hibernian Mysteries' were held in secret in sacred groves in the deep forests. The acorn to mighty oak parable corresponded to the 'mustard seed' simile used by Jesus. 'Dar' the Gaelic for oak gave it's name to door in the Indo / European Languages : it became door in English, not because it was used for planking but because the Sacral Oak Groves Mysteries were a portal to the 'Otherworld'. In many of the Continental Churches founded by Irish or Celtic Saints, these and some other saints statues are portrayed with interwoven clusters of Oak branches to illustrate the continuation of the Celtic Sacral into Christianity. Slan is beannacht, Donal O' On 3/27/12, Phil Brown <ppbrown@cox.net> wrote: > I guess I should've directed that "thank you" to Mary. Thanks, Mary! > Phil > > ---- Mary Funnell <hucklepickleberry@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > ============= > Dear Susan, > > I don't know about the Irish oak forests, but my county of Sussex in > Southern England was the county which was so full of oak forests, that oak > was called the Sussex weed.  (Bandit country).  Between London and the South > Coast is only 53 miles, but there are two sets of chalk hills and a > swampland of clay (the Weald) in between, and with the dense furze bushes > and oak forests, the only way to get to London was by sea, around the > English Channel - too dense for roads.  Sussex was the last county converted > to Christianity in Saxon times, due to these treacherous swampy clay soils > and vast dense oak forests, which could both hide natives and impede > travellers.  From the top of the Ashdown Forest (where Winnie the Pooh > lived, and yes, all the places in the books are real) you can see the river > systems winding north eastwards to the London shipyards.  Even the Romans > (who weren't scared of the South Saxons (Sussex people), and who were > friendly with > them, had to build many of their roads and trackways on top of the chalk > downs, due to clay swamplands between London and the coast. > > Regarding the making of English ships from oaks - yes, they were used in > vast quantities.  They used Sussex oaks (many from the Ashdown Forest), and > from the time the oak was cut down until it reached the London shipyards, it > took 3 years to drag the oak through the thick forests in the clay by many > oxen.  When the weather got too bad, they had to leave the oak stuck in mud > until the next season.  There are accounts by Daniel Defoe (1700s) where a > lady had to have 20 oxen drag her to church in the Weald because the clay > was too sticky to walk and another where a priest had to have oxen take him > to church, because the horses got stuck in the swampy clay. > > Regarding the Holy Oaks.  In Brighton, (which stands on 7 hills like Rome, > but much smaller) we have one hilltop with a Prehistoric Neolithic hillfort > 3,500 years old and this site was known as the Holy Oak from ancient times > (known as Whitehawk nowadays, which is from the Saxon word for holy oak: > Vied ac).  It stands near the leylines and Greenwich Meridian which are not > far away, so whether this has something to do with it, I don't know.  The > ley lines certainly attract the visitors from all over the world to this > City! > > http://www.whitedragon.org.uk/articles/oak.htm - information on oaks, > druids, customs etc.  The oak tree can hold 200 or 300 species of wildlife > and therefore, is essential to all life, where it exists.  Many ancient > groups such as the druids revered the oak, and it has appeared on our old > British currency, etc. and crowns of leaves.  Too much here to go into, but > lots of research out there to look at online. > > http://www.netplaces.com/irish-history/geography-and-climate/terrain-lakes-and-forests.htm includes > the bit below: > In prehistoric times, Ireland was covered with forests. Most of these trees > were oaks, mixed with birch and pine on the hills and with elm, alder, ash, > and hawthorn in the lower areas. Other plants grew under the trees. The > forest was home to a large variety of animal species.  Farmers started > cutting down trees about 6,000 years ago, but deforestation didn't become > rampant until the 1500s. At that time the English occupiers cut down most of > Ireland's oak to use in shipbuilding and barrel making. By the eighteenth > century, Ireland had very little forest left and had to import most of its > wood. In the twentieth century, Irish people began planting tree farms, and > now about 5 percent of the country is covered with trees again. Most of that > is commercially grown pine, but some people are working on planting oaks and > other native trees again.  The forests have been replaced with natural bogs > and man-made agricultural fields. > > Slightly diversing from the Beara list, but as much of Britain had the same > coniferous trees as Ireland in ancient times, it makes sense to look at the > wider picture in order to find the data for Beara in particular.  Good luck! > > Mary Funnell > > Brighton > East Sussex > England > > > ________________________________ > From: Susan Twomey <mtpv@arcatanet.com> > To: BEARA@rootsweb.com > Sent: Friday, 23 March 2012, 18:05 > Subject: [BEARA] oak tree forests > > Does anyone know the history of oak forests in Ireland, especially Beara. > Were there ancient forests there?  What happened to them. > > What I have heard is that the ancient and sacred oak forests were a threat > to the occupying folks...normans, English et al...because the local folks > could hide in them.  What is the story in Beara? > > Thanks. > > /Susan Twomey > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message

Dear Susan,   I don't know about the Irish oak forests, but my county of Sussex in Southern England was the county which was so full of oak forests, that oak was called the Sussex weed.  (Bandit country).  Between London and the South Coast is only 53 miles, but there are two sets of chalk hills and a swampland of clay (the Weald) in between, and with the dense furze bushes and oak forests, the only way to get to London was by sea, around the English Channel - too dense for roads.  Sussex was the last county converted to Christianity in Saxon times, due to these treacherous swampy clay soils and vast dense oak forests, which could both hide natives and impede travellers.  From the top of the Ashdown Forest (where Winnie the Pooh lived, and yes, all the places in the books are real) you can see the river systems winding north eastwards to the London shipyards.  Even the Romans (who weren't scared of the South Saxons (Sussex people), and who were friendly with them, had to build many of their roads and trackways on top of the chalk downs, due to clay swamplands between London and the coast.   Regarding the making of English ships from oaks - yes, they were used in vast quantities.  They used Sussex oaks (many from the Ashdown Forest), and from the time the oak was cut down until it reached the London shipyards, it took 3 years to drag the oak through the thick forests in the clay by many oxen.  When the weather got too bad, they had to leave the oak stuck in mud until the next season.  There are accounts by Daniel Defoe (1700s) where a lady had to have 20 oxen drag her to church in the Weald because the clay was too sticky to walk and another where a priest had to have oxen take him to church, because the horses got stuck in the swampy clay.   Regarding the Holy Oaks.  In Brighton, (which stands on 7 hills like Rome, but much smaller) we have one hilltop with a Prehistoric Neolithic hillfort 3,500 years old and this site was known as the Holy Oak from ancient times (known as Whitehawk nowadays, which is from the Saxon word for holy oak: Vied ac).  It stands near the leylines and Greenwich Meridian which are not far away, so whether this has something to do with it, I don't know.  The ley lines certainly attract the visitors from all over the world to this City!    http://www.whitedragon.org.uk/articles/oak.htm - information on oaks, druids, customs etc.  The oak tree can hold 200 or 300 species of wildlife and therefore, is essential to all life, where it exists.  Many ancient groups such as the druids revered the oak, and it has appeared on our old British currency, etc. and crowns of leaves.  Too much here to go into, but lots of research out there to look at online. http://www.netplaces.com/irish-history/geography-and-climate/terrain-lakes-and-forests.htm includes the bit below: In prehistoric times, Ireland was covered with forests. Most of these trees were oaks, mixed with birch and pine on the hills and with elm, alder, ash, and hawthorn in the lower areas. Other plants grew under the trees. The forest was home to a large variety of animal species.  Farmers started cutting down trees about 6,000 years ago, but deforestation didn't become rampant until the 1500s. At that time the English occupiers cut down most of Ireland's oak to use in shipbuilding and barrel making. By the eighteenth century, Ireland had very little forest left and had to import most of its wood. In the twentieth century, Irish people began planting tree farms, and now about 5 percent of the country is covered with trees again. Most of that is commercially grown pine, but some people are working on planting oaks and other native trees again.  The forests have been replaced with natural bogs and man-made agricultural fields. Slightly diversing from the Beara list, but as much of Britain had the same coniferous trees as Ireland in ancient times, it makes sense to look at the wider picture in order to find the data for Beara in particular.  Good luck! Mary Funnell Brighton East Sussex England ________________________________ From: Susan Twomey <mtpv@arcatanet.com> To: BEARA@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, 23 March 2012, 18:05 Subject: [BEARA] oak tree forests Does anyone know the history of oak forests in Ireland, especially Beara.  Were there ancient forests there?  What happened to them. What I have heard is that the ancient and sacred oak forests were a threat to the occupying folks...normans, English et al...because the local folks could hide in them.  What is the story in Beara? Thanks. /Susan Twomey ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I really appreciate all of your thoughts about the oak forests! Provides a greater understanding of much more... /Susan On Mar 27, 2012, at 9:23 AM, Coletta wrote: > Fascinating, Mary. Thank you. You too, Donal. ~ coletta > > -----Original Message----- > From: beara-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:beara-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of Mary Funnell > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 2:30 AM > To: beara@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [BEARA] oak tree forests > > Dear Susan, > > I don't know about the Irish oak forests, but my county of Sussex in > Southern England was the county which was so full of oak forests, that oak > was called the Sussex weed. (Bandit country). Between London and the South > Coast is only 53 miles, but there are two sets of chalk hills and a > swampland of clay (the Weald) in between, and with the dense furze bushes > and oak forests, the only way to get to London was by sea, around the > English Channel - too dense for roads. Sussex was the last county converted > to Christianity in Saxon times, due to these treacherous swampy clay soils > and vast dense oak forests, which could both hide natives and impede > travellers. From the top of the Ashdown Forest (where Winnie the Pooh > lived, and yes, all the places in the books are real) you can see the river > systems winding north eastwards to the London shipyards. Even the Romans > (who weren't scared of the South Saxons (Sussex people), and who were > friendly with > them, had to build many of their roads and trackways on top of the chalk > downs, due to clay swamplands between London and the coast. > > Regarding the making of English ships from oaks - yes, they were used in > vast quantities. They used Sussex oaks (many from the Ashdown Forest), and > from the time the oak was cut down until it reached the London shipyards, it > took 3 years to drag the oak through the thick forests in the clay by many > oxen. When the weather got too bad, they had to leave the oak stuck in mud > until the next season. There are accounts by Daniel Defoe (1700s) where a > lady had to have 20 oxen drag her to church in the Weald because the clay > was too sticky to walk and another where a priest had to have oxen take him > to church, because the horses got stuck in the swampy clay. > > Regarding the Holy Oaks. In Brighton, (which stands on 7 hills like Rome, > but much smaller) we have one hilltop with a Prehistoric Neolithic hillfort > 3,500 years old and this site was known as the Holy Oak from ancient times > (known as Whitehawk nowadays, which is from the Saxon word for holy oak: > Vied ac). It stands near the leylines and Greenwich Meridian which are not > far away, so whether this has something to do with it, I don't know. The > ley lines certainly attract the visitors from all over the world to this > City! > > http://www.whitedragon.org.uk/articles/oak.htm - information on oaks, > druids, customs etc. The oak tree can hold 200 or 300 species of wildlife > and therefore, is essential to all life, where it exists. Many ancient > groups such as the druids revered the oak, and it has appeared on our old > British currency, etc. and crowns of leaves. Too much here to go into, but > lots of research out there to look at online. > > http://www.netplaces.com/irish-history/geography-and-climate/terrain-lakes-a > nd-forests.htm includes the bit below: > In prehistoric times, Ireland was covered with forests. Most of these trees > were oaks, mixed with birch and pine on the hills and with elm, alder, ash, > and hawthorn in the lower areas. Other plants grew under the trees. The > forest was home to a large variety of animal species. Farmers started > cutting down trees about 6,000 years ago, but deforestation didn't become > rampant until the 1500s. At that time the English occupiers cut down most of > Ireland's oak to use in shipbuilding and barrel making. By the eighteenth > century, Ireland had very little forest left and had to import most of its > wood. In the twentieth century, Irish people began planting tree farms, and > now about 5 percent of the country is covered with trees again. Most of that > is commercially grown pine, but some people are working on planting oaks and > other native trees again. The forests have been replaced with natural bogs > and man-made agricultural fields. > > Slightly diversing from the Beara list, but as much of Britain had the same > coniferous trees as Ireland in ancient times, it makes sense to look at the > wider picture in order to find the data for Beara in particular. Good luck! > > Mary Funnell > > Brighton > East Sussex > England > > > ________________________________ > From: Susan Twomey <mtpv@arcatanet.com> > To: BEARA@rootsweb.com > Sent: Friday, 23 March 2012, 18:05 > Subject: [BEARA] oak tree forests > > Does anyone know the history of oak forests in Ireland, especially Beara. > Were there ancient forests there? What happened to them. > > What I have heard is that the ancient and sacred oak forests were a threat > to the occupying folks...normans, English et al...because the local folks > could hide in them. What is the story in Beara? > > Thanks. > > /Susan Twomey > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Susan Twomey 319 Howard Heights Rd Eureka, CA 95503 tel 707-444-2522

Fascinating, Mary. Thank you. You too, Donal. ~ coletta -----Original Message----- From: beara-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:beara-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Mary Funnell Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 2:30 AM To: beara@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BEARA] oak tree forests Dear Susan,   I don't know about the Irish oak forests, but my county of Sussex in Southern England was the county which was so full of oak forests, that oak was called the Sussex weed.  (Bandit country).  Between London and the South Coast is only 53 miles, but there are two sets of chalk hills and a swampland of clay (the Weald) in between, and with the dense furze bushes and oak forests, the only way to get to London was by sea, around the English Channel - too dense for roads.  Sussex was the last county converted to Christianity in Saxon times, due to these treacherous swampy clay soils and vast dense oak forests, which could both hide natives and impede travellers.  From the top of the Ashdown Forest (where Winnie the Pooh lived, and yes, all the places in the books are real) you can see the river systems winding north eastwards to the London shipyards.  Even the Romans (who weren't scared of the South Saxons (Sussex people), and who were friendly with them, had to build many of their roads and trackways on top of the chalk downs, due to clay swamplands between London and the coast.   Regarding the making of English ships from oaks - yes, they were used in vast quantities.  They used Sussex oaks (many from the Ashdown Forest), and from the time the oak was cut down until it reached the London shipyards, it took 3 years to drag the oak through the thick forests in the clay by many oxen.  When the weather got too bad, they had to leave the oak stuck in mud until the next season.  There are accounts by Daniel Defoe (1700s) where a lady had to have 20 oxen drag her to church in the Weald because the clay was too sticky to walk and another where a priest had to have oxen take him to church, because the horses got stuck in the swampy clay.   Regarding the Holy Oaks.  In Brighton, (which stands on 7 hills like Rome, but much smaller) we have one hilltop with a Prehistoric Neolithic hillfort 3,500 years old and this site was known as the Holy Oak from ancient times (known as Whitehawk nowadays, which is from the Saxon word for holy oak: Vied ac).  It stands near the leylines and Greenwich Meridian which are not far away, so whether this has something to do with it, I don't know.  The ley lines certainly attract the visitors from all over the world to this City!    http://www.whitedragon.org.uk/articles/oak.htm - information on oaks, druids, customs etc.  The oak tree can hold 200 or 300 species of wildlife and therefore, is essential to all life, where it exists.  Many ancient groups such as the druids revered the oak, and it has appeared on our old British currency, etc. and crowns of leaves.  Too much here to go into, but lots of research out there to look at online. http://www.netplaces.com/irish-history/geography-and-climate/terrain-lakes-a nd-forests.htm includes the bit below: In prehistoric times, Ireland was covered with forests. Most of these trees were oaks, mixed with birch and pine on the hills and with elm, alder, ash, and hawthorn in the lower areas. Other plants grew under the trees. The forest was home to a large variety of animal species.  Farmers started cutting down trees about 6,000 years ago, but deforestation didn't become rampant until the 1500s. At that time the English occupiers cut down most of Ireland's oak to use in shipbuilding and barrel making. By the eighteenth century, Ireland had very little forest left and had to import most of its wood. In the twentieth century, Irish people began planting tree farms, and now about 5 percent of the country is covered with trees again. Most of that is commercially grown pine, but some people are working on planting oaks and other native trees again.  The forests have been replaced with natural bogs and man-made agricultural fields. Slightly diversing from the Beara list, but as much of Britain had the same coniferous trees as Ireland in ancient times, it makes sense to look at the wider picture in order to find the data for Beara in particular.  Good luck! Mary Funnell Brighton East Sussex England ________________________________ From: Susan Twomey <mtpv@arcatanet.com> To: BEARA@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, 23 March 2012, 18:05 Subject: [BEARA] oak tree forests Does anyone know the history of oak forests in Ireland, especially Beara.  Were there ancient forests there?  What happened to them. What I have heard is that the ancient and sacred oak forests were a threat to the occupying folks...normans, English et al...because the local folks could hide in them.  What is the story in Beara? Thanks. /Susan Twomey ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I guess I should've directed that "thank you" to Mary. Thanks, Mary! Phil ---- Mary Funnell <hucklepickleberry@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: ============= Dear Susan,   I don't know about the Irish oak forests, but my county of Sussex in Southern England was the county which was so full of oak forests, that oak was called the Sussex weed.  (Bandit country).  Between London and the South Coast is only 53 miles, but there are two sets of chalk hills and a swampland of clay (the Weald) in between, and with the dense furze bushes and oak forests, the only way to get to London was by sea, around the English Channel - too dense for roads.  Sussex was the last county converted to Christianity in Saxon times, due to these treacherous swampy clay soils and vast dense oak forests, which could both hide natives and impede travellers.  From the top of the Ashdown Forest (where Winnie the Pooh lived, and yes, all the places in the books are real) you can see the river systems winding north eastwards to the London shipyards.  Even the Romans (who weren't scared of the South Saxons (Sussex people), and who were friendly with them, had to build many of their roads and trackways on top of the chalk downs, due to clay swamplands between London and the coast.   Regarding the making of English ships from oaks - yes, they were used in vast quantities.  They used Sussex oaks (many from the Ashdown Forest), and from the time the oak was cut down until it reached the London shipyards, it took 3 years to drag the oak through the thick forests in the clay by many oxen.  When the weather got too bad, they had to leave the oak stuck in mud until the next season.  There are accounts by Daniel Defoe (1700s) where a lady had to have 20 oxen drag her to church in the Weald because the clay was too sticky to walk and another where a priest had to have oxen take him to church, because the horses got stuck in the swampy clay.   Regarding the Holy Oaks.  In Brighton, (which stands on 7 hills like Rome, but much smaller) we have one hilltop with a Prehistoric Neolithic hillfort 3,500 years old and this site was known as the Holy Oak from ancient times (known as Whitehawk nowadays, which is from the Saxon word for holy oak: Vied ac).  It stands near the leylines and Greenwich Meridian which are not far away, so whether this has something to do with it, I don't know.  The ley lines certainly attract the visitors from all over the world to this City!    http://www.whitedragon.org.uk/articles/oak.htm - information on oaks, druids, customs etc.  The oak tree can hold 200 or 300 species of wildlife and therefore, is essential to all life, where it exists.  Many ancient groups such as the druids revered the oak, and it has appeared on our old British currency, etc. and crowns of leaves.  Too much here to go into, but lots of research out there to look at online. http://www.netplaces.com/irish-history/geography-and-climate/terrain-lakes-and-forests.htm includes the bit below: In prehistoric times, Ireland was covered with forests. Most of these trees were oaks, mixed with birch and pine on the hills and with elm, alder, ash, and hawthorn in the lower areas. Other plants grew under the trees. The forest was home to a large variety of animal species.  Farmers started cutting down trees about 6,000 years ago, but deforestation didn't become rampant until the 1500s. At that time the English occupiers cut down most of Ireland's oak to use in shipbuilding and barrel making. By the eighteenth century, Ireland had very little forest left and had to import most of its wood. In the twentieth century, Irish people began planting tree farms, and now about 5 percent of the country is covered with trees again. Most of that is commercially grown pine, but some people are working on planting oaks and other native trees again.  The forests have been replaced with natural bogs and man-made agricultural fields. Slightly diversing from the Beara list, but as much of Britain had the same coniferous trees as Ireland in ancient times, it makes sense to look at the wider picture in order to find the data for Beara in particular.  Good luck! Mary Funnell Brighton East Sussex England ________________________________ From: Susan Twomey <mtpv@arcatanet.com> To: BEARA@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, 23 March 2012, 18:05 Subject: [BEARA] oak tree forests Does anyone know the history of oak forests in Ireland, especially Beara.  Were there ancient forests there?  What happened to them. What I have heard is that the ancient and sacred oak forests were a threat to the occupying folks...normans, English et al...because the local folks could hide in them.  What is the story in Beara? Thanks. /Susan Twomey ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks, Susan. Michael John Hill is an oil landscape painter from Sussex whose work I really admire. Much of it is as you describe. Phil ---- Mary Funnell <hucklepickleberry@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: ============= Dear Susan,   I don't know about the Irish oak forests, but my county of Sussex in Southern England was the county which was so full of oak forests, that oak was called the Sussex weed.  (Bandit country).  Between London and the South Coast is only 53 miles, but there are two sets of chalk hills and a swampland of clay (the Weald) in between, and with the dense furze bushes and oak forests, the only way to get to London was by sea, around the English Channel - too dense for roads.  Sussex was the last county converted to Christianity in Saxon times, due to these treacherous swampy clay soils and vast dense oak forests, which could both hide natives and impede travellers.  From the top of the Ashdown Forest (where Winnie the Pooh lived, and yes, all the places in the books are real) you can see the river systems winding north eastwards to the London shipyards.  Even the Romans (who weren't scared of the South Saxons (Sussex people), and who were friendly with them, had to build many of their roads and trackways on top of the chalk downs, due to clay swamplands between London and the coast.   Regarding the making of English ships from oaks - yes, they were used in vast quantities.  They used Sussex oaks (many from the Ashdown Forest), and from the time the oak was cut down until it reached the London shipyards, it took 3 years to drag the oak through the thick forests in the clay by many oxen.  When the weather got too bad, they had to leave the oak stuck in mud until the next season.  There are accounts by Daniel Defoe (1700s) where a lady had to have 20 oxen drag her to church in the Weald because the clay was too sticky to walk and another where a priest had to have oxen take him to church, because the horses got stuck in the swampy clay.   Regarding the Holy Oaks.  In Brighton, (which stands on 7 hills like Rome, but much smaller) we have one hilltop with a Prehistoric Neolithic hillfort 3,500 years old and this site was known as the Holy Oak from ancient times (known as Whitehawk nowadays, which is from the Saxon word for holy oak: Vied ac).  It stands near the leylines and Greenwich Meridian which are not far away, so whether this has something to do with it, I don't know.  The ley lines certainly attract the visitors from all over the world to this City!    http://www.whitedragon.org.uk/articles/oak.htm - information on oaks, druids, customs etc.  The oak tree can hold 200 or 300 species of wildlife and therefore, is essential to all life, where it exists.  Many ancient groups such as the druids revered the oak, and it has appeared on our old British currency, etc. and crowns of leaves.  Too much here to go into, but lots of research out there to look at online. http://www.netplaces.com/irish-history/geography-and-climate/terrain-lakes-and-forests.htm includes the bit below: In prehistoric times, Ireland was covered with forests. Most of these trees were oaks, mixed with birch and pine on the hills and with elm, alder, ash, and hawthorn in the lower areas. Other plants grew under the trees. The forest was home to a large variety of animal species.  Farmers started cutting down trees about 6,000 years ago, but deforestation didn't become rampant until the 1500s. At that time the English occupiers cut down most of Ireland's oak to use in shipbuilding and barrel making. By the eighteenth century, Ireland had very little forest left and had to import most of its wood. In the twentieth century, Irish people began planting tree farms, and now about 5 percent of the country is covered with trees again. Most of that is commercially grown pine, but some people are working on planting oaks and other native trees again.  The forests have been replaced with natural bogs and man-made agricultural fields. Slightly diversing from the Beara list, but as much of Britain had the same coniferous trees as Ireland in ancient times, it makes sense to look at the wider picture in order to find the data for Beara in particular.  Good luck! Mary Funnell Brighton East Sussex England ________________________________ From: Susan Twomey <mtpv@arcatanet.com> To: BEARA@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, 23 March 2012, 18:05 Subject: [BEARA] oak tree forests Does anyone know the history of oak forests in Ireland, especially Beara.  Were there ancient forests there?  What happened to them. What I have heard is that the ancient and sacred oak forests were a threat to the occupying folks...normans, English et al...because the local folks could hide in them.  What is the story in Beara? Thanks. /Susan Twomey ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sue, I have a Mary Kerrisk born 1826 but she left Killorglin and ended up in Newport, RI by 1850. I have a Shea on one of my paternal Kerrisk records but they were from Tiernaboul not Killorglin. I think there are repeat records but I have found a few cases of godparents and parents being switched, especially the females. I was alerted to this error by a record for a child whose father had a different surname but the godfather did have the same surname! Helen -----Original Message----- From: beara-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:beara-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Susan Haines Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 7:42 AM To: beara@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BEARA] Healy Helen, I have Shea ancestors from, I believe, Killorglin, but I have had trouble getting anything organized. Mary Healy sponsored the birth of a Shea child in Wales in 1860. I searched Kerrisk in Killorglin in irishgenealogy and found loads of familar names and places but still can't quite connect anything. Do you have a Mary Kerrisk/Healy, born about 1830 or 40? One problem I find is that Killorglin I will find one child's birth listed twice or more for the same date, same father but very different names for mother. Thank you. Sue On 3/25/2012 6:56 PM, Helen wrote: > Susan, > > I have maternal and paternal Healy lines from Kerry. One from > Tiernaboul, the other from Killorglin. Both lines were very difficult > to track down because they were not Healy's in the early records but > Kerrisk's. My gg grandmother Julia was baptized a Kerrisk in 1842 but > married using Healy in 1870. > > If you want to check the Healy's in Duagh and Listowel for connections > to your McKenna/Stacks I would use Kerrisk as well as Healy when searching. > > Good Luck. > > Helen > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Helen, I have Shea ancestors from, I believe, Killorglin, but I have had trouble getting anything organized. Mary Healy sponsored the birth of a Shea child in Wales in 1860. I searched Kerrisk in Killorglin in irishgenealogy and found loads of familar names and places but still can't quite connect anything. Do you have a Mary Kerrisk/Healy, born about 1830 or 40? One problem I find is that Killorglin I will find one child's birth listed twice or more for the same date, same father but very different names for mother. Thank you. Sue On 3/25/2012 6:56 PM, Helen wrote: > Susan, > > I have maternal and paternal Healy lines from Kerry. One from Tiernaboul, > the other from Killorglin. Both lines were very difficult to track down > because they were not Healy's in the early records but Kerrisk's. My gg > grandmother Julia was baptized a Kerrisk in 1842 but married using Healy in > 1870. > > If you want to check the Healy's in Duagh and Listowel for connections to > your McKenna/Stacks I would use Kerrisk as well as Healy when searching. > > Good Luck. > > Helen > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Susan et al : there is a folk saying from our Celtic cousins in Brittany that translated says ".... it do not matter where a man was born, it is where he stands and fights that counts..." This weekend I am grieving for the sudden loss of a fine English friend, Nial Whitehead and if you click on the reference, you will see why. Niall was part of the 'British Troops Out Of ireland' organization and while in the UK and after in the US he was a constant thorn in the side of the English Establishment exposing the horrors of British and other Colonialism. http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/07/01/the-cannibal-war-machine/ Last year I finally got to meet him when he chaired a UK university conference module where I delivered a paper. I had long known of his work and writings, we spend as much time over the weekend together as we could, it was like we had known each other for a lifetime and he said that he would consider coming to Ireland this year or next. Tragically he died the weekend and I was shattered when contacted with the news by other English friends. This is not just about English V Ireland : dispossessed Galway families went to the West Indies where they became slave owners in sugar plantations.............and even had Irish slaves! It is all about the one group of people in temporary, temporal power over another and the abuse of that power. Pierce Ferriter the poet adopted Gaelic ways led out his English Colonial Planters on the side of the Gael in the Elizabethan Wars and he was hanged with the other Irish Leaders in Killarney for his actions. As recently as this weekend I heard his name and deeds honored for in in a public talk as indeed I have done many a time myself. Slan is beannacht, Donal O. On 3/26/12, donal O'Siodhachain <dospoet@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Susan et al : there is a folk saying from our Celtic cousins in > Brittany that translated says ".... it do not matter where a man was > born, it is where he stands and fights that counts..." > > This weekend I am grieving for the sudden loss of a fine English > friend, Nial Whitehead and if you click on the reference, you will see > why. Niall was part of the 'British Troops Out Of ireland' > organization and while in the UK and after in the US he was a constant > thorn in the side of the English Establishment exposing the horrors of > British and other Colonialism. > > 'Neil L Whitehead : The Cannibal War Machine » Counterpunch: Tells the > Facts, Names ...' > > Last year I finally got to meet him when he chaired a UK university > conference module where I delivered a paper. I had long known of his > work and writings, we spend as much time over the weekend together as > we could, it was like we had known each other for a lifetime and he > said that he would consider coming to Ireland this year or next. > Tragically he died the weekend and I was shattered when contacted with > the news by other English friends. > > This is not just about English V Ireland : dispossessed Galway > families went to the West Indies where they became slave owners in > sugar plantations.............and even had Irish slaves! It is all > about the one group of people in temporary, temporal power over > another and the abuse of that power. Pierce Ferriter the poet adopted > Gaelic ways led out his English Colonial Planters on the side of the > Gael in the Elizabethan Wars and he was hanged with the other Irish > Leaders in Killarney for his actions. As recently as this weekend I > heard his name and deeds honored for in in a public talk as indeed I > have done many a time myself. > > Slan is beannacht, Donal O. > > > On 3/25/12, Susan Twomey <mtpv@arcatanet.com> wrote: >> Donal, >> >> Thank you so much for your detailed description! One more insight into >> how >> things were... I remember my mother and family passing on a deep-seated >> resentment toward "the English". Although today I try to overcome a >> little >> of my innate prejudices, and have lived all of my life in America, I feel >> that this history of oppression and destruction in my native land still >> lives in my blood. >> >> Living here in the redwood forest of northern California, we have been >> trying to protect our forests from absentee landlords who buy private >> property, and then clear cut everything in sight, then ship the fallen >> trees >> overseas to be milled...for profit. Leaving the forestlands desolate, >> they >> burn whatever extra is leftover, creating polluting smoke in the >> beautiful >> clean air here. Until only a couple of years ago, one absentee landlord >> who >> lives in Texas was having workers carry out about one million board-feet >> a >> day for a number of years, especially in the 1990's...and proud of it. >> He >> finally went bankrupt a few years ago. But much of the forest has been >> destroyed. >> >> You mention that the forests were a source of food and shelter...I did >> not >> think of that. It is well-known here that the native people/Indian >> tribes >> have traditionally depended on the forest ecology for food...acorns for >> flour, plants and herbs for food and medicine, animals who live in the >> forest... >> >> Wow... >> >> Thank you. >> >> /Susan >> >> >> On Mar 25, 2012, at 10:57 AM, donal O'Siodhachain wrote: >> >>> Hi Suasan et al : general answer re the forests, to begin with you >>> must try and imagine a totally different landscape and ecology. If you >>> look up the New Forest in the UK, this is the nearest on these Islands >>> to the Old Ecology. >>> >>> As to the terrain it self, bear in mind that up to the end of the >>> 1700's it was easier to go by sea from Waterford to Wales than it was >>> to go overland to Limerick. An English traveller spend three days in >>> Kanturk waiting for a reliable guide to take him to Listowel in the >>> late 1700's........ a little over one and a half hours by motor car >>> and current roads. >>> >>> Post the Desmond Wars and the Elizabethan Wars a Crown decision was >>> taken to cut down all the great woods; to deprive the Irish 'Wood >>> Kerns' ( disposessed Irish ) of shelter and a base was the primary >>> intention, but a secondary reason involved deliberate destruction of >>> the whole food producing ecology and implement the policy advocated by >>> Spenser and others of deliberately introducing widespread famine to >>> 'ethnic cleanse' and wipe out the native Irish. >>> >>> Only a small part of these woods went to productive use, the normal >>> operation was to fell vast swarts of trees along a ten mile or more >>> front and then the first time that there was a strong breeze in the >>> required direction, the felled break was fired along the whole front >>> creating a firestorm that swept right through living wood and until it >>> burned itself out. >>> >>> This process was repeated over fourteen years until there was a bare >>> landscape left behind. Highland hills soon had their topsoil washed >>> away and previously fertile Lowland valleys became swamps with >>> frequent mud slides. ( see Kerry : 'Runaway Bog' ) What was done back >>> then was an offense to both God and man. Munster and most other areas >>> still have huge desolate areaws of Hiland terrain dating back to this >>> sacraligeous, wanton, deliberate destruction. >>> >>> As a child working in the bog in our family turf bank in the summer, I >>> often see fireblackened stumps uncovered and witnessed for my self the >>> raw anger that sight of these fire blackened stumps produced in my own >>> father and his neighbours over four hundred. ( Bill, away from base, >>> please post the poem [ shorter one] re the above in the sister page if >>> you still have it, DOS ) >>> >>> Slan is beannacht, Donal O. >>> >>> On 3/24/12, Riobard O' Dwyer <bearariobard@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> Forest. The area you are thinking about is Glenmore Lake in the Lauragh >>>> area of Co. Kerry, overlooked by the nearby wood. The fairly big wood >>>> is >>>> connected to, but much higher than the lake itself. It is on part of a >>>> hill. and, in a straight line, would be close enough to Bawers in the >>>> Eyeries Parish, Beara Peninsula. The townland of Glenmore in Co. Kerry, >>>> more or less adjoins the townland of Bawers. >>>> Riobard. >>>> >>>> On 24 March 2012 02:04, <kerstentm@snowcrest.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> One of the stories that I was told about our Uohni family >>>>> (my great grandfather was Phil J. Harrington of Bawers) >>>>> was that they originally weren't from the Beara penisula >>>>> but were from an area just east of there. The story said that >>>>> they lived where the forest and lake came together. I'm not >>>>> remembering the lake name, but will try to recall it. >>>>> Theresa >>>>> >>>>>> Gone to English warships, everyone. >>>>>> Oh when will they ever learn?? >>>>>> Reg-Canada >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Susan Twomey" <mtpv@arcatanet.com> >>>>>> To: <BEARA@rootsweb.com> >>>>>> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 11:05 AM >>>>>> Subject: [BEARA] oak tree forests >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Does anyone know the history of oak forests in Ireland, especially >>>>>>> Beara. >>>>>>> Were there ancient forests there? What happened to them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What I have heard is that the ancient and sacred oak forests were a >>>>>>> threat >>>>>>> to the occupying folks...normans, English et al...because the local >>>>>>> folks >>>>>>> could hide in them. What is the story in Beara? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> /Susan Twomey >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>>>>> quotes >>>>>>> in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>>> quotes >>>>>> in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --------------------------------------------- >>>>> This message was sent using SnowCrest WebMail. >>>>> http://www.snowcrest.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>>> quotes >>>>> in the subject and the body of the message >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> *Riobard (O'Dwyer)* >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes >>>> in >>>> the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes >>> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> Susan Twomey >> 319 Howard Heights Rd >> Eureka, CA 95503 >> tel 707-444-2522 >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in >> the subject and the body of the message >> >

Hi Susan et al : there is a folk saying from our Celtic cousins in Brittany that translated says ".... it do not matter where a man was born, it is where he stands and fights that counts..." This weekend I am grieving for the sudden loss of a fine English friend, Nial Whitehead and if you click on the reference, you will see why. Niall was part of the 'British Troops Out Of ireland' organization and while in the UK and after in the US he was a constant thorn in the side of the English Establishment exposing the horrors of British and other Colonialism. 'Neil L Whitehead : The Cannibal War Machine » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names ...' Last year I finally got to meet him when he chaired a UK university conference module where I delivered a paper. I had long known of his work and writings, we spend as much time over the weekend together as we could, it was like we had known each other for a lifetime and he said that he would consider coming to Ireland this year or next. Tragically he died the weekend and I was shattered when contacted with the news by other English friends. This is not just about English V Ireland : dispossessed Galway families went to the West Indies where they became slave owners in sugar plantations.............and even had Irish slaves! It is all about the one group of people in temporary, temporal power over another and the abuse of that power. Pierce Ferriter the poet adopted Gaelic ways led out his English Colonial Planters on the side of the Gael in the Elizabethan Wars and he was hanged with the other Irish Leaders in Killarney for his actions. As recently as this weekend I heard his name and deeds honored for in in a public talk as indeed I have done many a time myself. Slan is beannacht, Donal O. On 3/25/12, Susan Twomey <mtpv@arcatanet.com> wrote: > Donal, > > Thank you so much for your detailed description! One more insight into how > things were... I remember my mother and family passing on a deep-seated > resentment toward "the English". Although today I try to overcome a little > of my innate prejudices, and have lived all of my life in America, I feel > that this history of oppression and destruction in my native land still > lives in my blood. > > Living here in the redwood forest of northern California, we have been > trying to protect our forests from absentee landlords who buy private > property, and then clear cut everything in sight, then ship the fallen trees > overseas to be milled...for profit. Leaving the forestlands desolate, they > burn whatever extra is leftover, creating polluting smoke in the beautiful > clean air here. Until only a couple of years ago, one absentee landlord who > lives in Texas was having workers carry out about one million board-feet a > day for a number of years, especially in the 1990's...and proud of it. He > finally went bankrupt a few years ago. But much of the forest has been > destroyed. > > You mention that the forests were a source of food and shelter...I did not > think of that. It is well-known here that the native people/Indian tribes > have traditionally depended on the forest ecology for food...acorns for > flour, plants and herbs for food and medicine, animals who live in the > forest... > > Wow... > > Thank you. > > /Susan > > > On Mar 25, 2012, at 10:57 AM, donal O'Siodhachain wrote: > >> Hi Suasan et al : general answer re the forests, to begin with you >> must try and imagine a totally different landscape and ecology. If you >> look up the New Forest in the UK, this is the nearest on these Islands >> to the Old Ecology. >> >> As to the terrain it self, bear in mind that up to the end of the >> 1700's it was easier to go by sea from Waterford to Wales than it was >> to go overland to Limerick. An English traveller spend three days in >> Kanturk waiting for a reliable guide to take him to Listowel in the >> late 1700's........ a little over one and a half hours by motor car >> and current roads. >> >> Post the Desmond Wars and the Elizabethan Wars a Crown decision was >> taken to cut down all the great woods; to deprive the Irish 'Wood >> Kerns' ( disposessed Irish ) of shelter and a base was the primary >> intention, but a secondary reason involved deliberate destruction of >> the whole food producing ecology and implement the policy advocated by >> Spenser and others of deliberately introducing widespread famine to >> 'ethnic cleanse' and wipe out the native Irish. >> >> Only a small part of these woods went to productive use, the normal >> operation was to fell vast swarts of trees along a ten mile or more >> front and then the first time that there was a strong breeze in the >> required direction, the felled break was fired along the whole front >> creating a firestorm that swept right through living wood and until it >> burned itself out. >> >> This process was repeated over fourteen years until there was a bare >> landscape left behind. Highland hills soon had their topsoil washed >> away and previously fertile Lowland valleys became swamps with >> frequent mud slides. ( see Kerry : 'Runaway Bog' ) What was done back >> then was an offense to both God and man. Munster and most other areas >> still have huge desolate areaws of Hiland terrain dating back to this >> sacraligeous, wanton, deliberate destruction. >> >> As a child working in the bog in our family turf bank in the summer, I >> often see fireblackened stumps uncovered and witnessed for my self the >> raw anger that sight of these fire blackened stumps produced in my own >> father and his neighbours over four hundred. ( Bill, away from base, >> please post the poem [ shorter one] re the above in the sister page if >> you still have it, DOS ) >> >> Slan is beannacht, Donal O. >> >> On 3/24/12, Riobard O' Dwyer <bearariobard@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Forest. The area you are thinking about is Glenmore Lake in the Lauragh >>> area of Co. Kerry, overlooked by the nearby wood. The fairly big wood is >>> connected to, but much higher than the lake itself. It is on part of a >>> hill. and, in a straight line, would be close enough to Bawers in the >>> Eyeries Parish, Beara Peninsula. The townland of Glenmore in Co. Kerry, >>> more or less adjoins the townland of Bawers. >>> Riobard. >>> >>> On 24 March 2012 02:04, <kerstentm@snowcrest.net> wrote: >>> >>>> One of the stories that I was told about our Uohni family >>>> (my great grandfather was Phil J. Harrington of Bawers) >>>> was that they originally weren't from the Beara penisula >>>> but were from an area just east of there. The story said that >>>> they lived where the forest and lake came together. I'm not >>>> remembering the lake name, but will try to recall it. >>>> Theresa >>>> >>>>> Gone to English warships, everyone. >>>>> Oh when will they ever learn?? >>>>> Reg-Canada >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Susan Twomey" <mtpv@arcatanet.com> >>>>> To: <BEARA@rootsweb.com> >>>>> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 11:05 AM >>>>> Subject: [BEARA] oak tree forests >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Does anyone know the history of oak forests in Ireland, especially >>>>>> Beara. >>>>>> Were there ancient forests there? What happened to them. >>>>>> >>>>>> What I have heard is that the ancient and sacred oak forests were a >>>>>> threat >>>>>> to the occupying folks...normans, English et al...because the local >>>>>> folks >>>>>> could hide in them. What is the story in Beara? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>> >>>>>> /Susan Twomey >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>>>> quotes >>>>>> in the subject and the body of the message >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes >>>>> in the subject and the body of the message >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------- >>>> This message was sent using SnowCrest WebMail. >>>> http://www.snowcrest.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes >>>> in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> *Riobard (O'Dwyer)* >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >>> in >>> the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message > > Susan Twomey > 319 Howard Heights Rd > Eureka, CA 95503 > tel 707-444-2522 > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message >

Dear friends of Beara, Our good friend Donal asked me to post a poem he shared with me some time ago. I believe this is what he had in mind. Disinheritance (for McSweeneys, Murphys and McCabes, the battle captains that gave their all) In the deep wood oak Valleys we had mustered, McCarthy and MacAulliffe, O'Callahan and O'Keeffe, As our cattle, mingling, Old enmities melting Before the new promise. II Ever backwards Pushed the fringe. We had watched them Spawn, their big houses Scattering, stepping Stones for the alienation That choked our valleys, From the tra of Eochaill 1 To the Lios of Tuthaill 2, And we were powerless. Like the angry cloud From a ruptured hive We hovered, ever near, Loud, angry, ineffective, Until, rage inverted, we Clawed at each other For the shrinking remains Of our father's inheritance. III And we were ripe When the word came. MacGarralt's quarrel Was not of our making, Nor was his time That of our choosing, But we saw The 'red deer' Leap to freedom Through the stranger's Confusion, and so we Made his cause our own. IV And we gathered, The herd raiders From the hills, the Vanquished from The up river valleys, Even their own outlaws. Daily O'Keeffe's Eactoiri 3 Led in the stragglers, Until bright a thousand Campfires burned, The monk's evening Benediction hanging Strange on meadows Still echoing to shouts Of McSweeney, Murphy And McCabe, the battle Captains that forged An army from the eager Ranks collecting. The nights I liked Best, the starry nights When our taoiseachs 4 Held their council, Strategy long perfected Against our divided Selves was readied. While round O'Dallaig's Campfire, sword and Battle axe acquired New keen edges to Tales of old glory. V When we came out There was no mad Burst, no exuberance. Prudence we had Learned well. Just Grim, calm satisfaction At each massed unit Acting in unison. For precious once A coherent whole. Unstoppable, breaching Almost with distain Their shocked scattered Lines, until the very Walls of Eochail 5 loomed. The gates, unforced, Hung open to empty Streets and frantic quays, Where last ship and boat Had loaded, fleeing Now a spear cast out With frightened cargo. VI Too soon it was over. Yet there was no rout, Each held sod contested Yielded only when we Were ready. Slowly And deliberately, as Our advance, the Retreat. Our horsemen Tossing too forward Infantry, across at The fringes, trees Sprouted waiting axes To fall on their cavalry, Moving to encircle, Piles of fire-blacked Stone, monuments to Our earlier sweeping, Shouted a caution4 on Our passing, for even In defeat we were now No dismissed people. But back we went, Back we had to go, Back until the green Embrace again closed And we were once more Master, their new grey Towers futile while Our green sanctuaries Sent nightly contingents To trouble their sleep. The victors remained Defeated, the vanquished Victorious and waiting, Iron actions checked By the phantom looming, Ever threatening, of Another breakout. VII That was the summer, The summer of my Youth, the summer That I remember So well, the summer Before we fell, it Was the summer Before the summer, The summer they came, The men with the iron Cloaks and hoods, the Guards for the men Who came and began What final awful summer To burn our woods! 1 Youghal strand 2 Listowel 3 warrior horsemen 4 leaders 5 Youghal DO'S May 1974,

Hi Suasan et al : general answer re the forests, to begin with you must try and imagine a totally different landscape and ecology. If you look up the New Forest in the UK, this is the nearest on these Islands to the Old Ecology. As to the terrain it self, bear in mind that up to the end of the 1700's it was easier to go by sea from Waterford to Wales than it was to go overland to Limerick. An English traveller spend three days in Kanturk waiting for a reliable guide to take him to Listowel in the late 1700's........ a little over one and a half hours by motor car and current roads. Post the Desmond Wars and the Elizabethan Wars a Crown decision was taken to cut down all the great woods; to deprive the Irish 'Wood Kerns' ( disposessed Irish ) of shelter and a base was the primary intention, but a secondary reason involved deliberate destruction of the whole food producing ecology and implement the policy advocated by Spenser and others of deliberately introducing widespread famine to 'ethnic cleanse' and wipe out the native Irish. Only a small part of these woods went to productive use, the normal operation was to fell vast swarts of trees along a ten mile or more front and then the first time that there was a strong breeze in the required direction, the felled break was fired along the whole front creating a firestorm that swept right through living wood and until it burned itself out. This process was repeated over fourteen years until there was a bare landscape left behind. Highland hills soon had their topsoil washed away and previously fertile Lowland valleys became swamps with frequent mud slides. ( see Kerry : 'Runaway Bog' ) What was done back then was an offense to both God and man. Munster and most other areas still have huge desolate areaws of Hiland terrain dating back to this sacraligeous, wanton, deliberate destruction. As a child working in the bog in our family turf bank in the summer, I often see fireblackened stumps uncovered and witnessed for my self the raw anger that sight of these fire blackened stumps produced in my own father and his neighbours over four hundred. ( Bill, away from base, please post the poem [ shorter one] re the above in the sister page if you still have it, DOS ) Slan is beannacht, Donal O. On 3/24/12, Riobard O' Dwyer <bearariobard@gmail.com> wrote: > Forest. The area you are thinking about is Glenmore Lake in the Lauragh > area of Co. Kerry, overlooked by the nearby wood. The fairly big wood is > connected to, but much higher than the lake itself. It is on part of a > hill. and, in a straight line, would be close enough to Bawers in the > Eyeries Parish, Beara Peninsula. The townland of Glenmore in Co. Kerry, > more or less adjoins the townland of Bawers. > Riobard. > > On 24 March 2012 02:04, <kerstentm@snowcrest.net> wrote: > >> One of the stories that I was told about our Uohni family >> (my great grandfather was Phil J. Harrington of Bawers) >> was that they originally weren't from the Beara penisula >> but were from an area just east of there. The story said that >> they lived where the forest and lake came together. I'm not >> remembering the lake name, but will try to recall it. >> Theresa >> >> > Gone to English warships, everyone. >> > Oh when will they ever learn?? >> > Reg-Canada >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Susan Twomey" <mtpv@arcatanet.com> >> > To: <BEARA@rootsweb.com> >> > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 11:05 AM >> > Subject: [BEARA] oak tree forests >> > >> > >> >> Does anyone know the history of oak forests in Ireland, especially >> >> Beara. >> >> Were there ancient forests there? What happened to them. >> >> >> >> What I have heard is that the ancient and sacred oak forests were a >> >> threat >> >> to the occupying folks...normans, English et al...because the local >> >> folks >> >> could hide in them. What is the story in Beara? >> >> >> >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> /Susan Twomey >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> >> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> >> quotes >> >> in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes >> > in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------- >> This message was sent using SnowCrest WebMail. >> http://www.snowcrest.net >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > -- > *Riobard (O'Dwyer)* > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message >

Susan, I have maternal and paternal Healy lines from Kerry. One from Tiernaboul, the other from Killorglin. Both lines were very difficult to track down because they were not Healy's in the early records but Kerrisk's. My gg grandmother Julia was baptized a Kerrisk in 1842 but married using Healy in 1870. If you want to check the Healy's in Duagh and Listowel for connections to your McKenna/Stacks I would use Kerrisk as well as Healy when searching. Good Luck. Helen ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message