My Curry was from Scotland. Apparently it was a border tribe. -----Original Message----- From: beara-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:beara-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Julie Ohanley Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 9:37 PM To: beara@rootsweb.com Subject: [BEARA] Curry Is Curry of Beara origin? Someone I know is seeking his Irish heritage - knows the family is from "County Cork." Julie O'Hanley ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Now there is a Curry from the area you find the O'Sullivans in Co. Cork also Co. Clare(Thomond is in Co. Clare)  Here you go: There was a little known sept (Irish gouping of people now called clans by people. Still we were septs more than clans. This is another story so back to Curry.)  of O'Curry in the barony of Kerricurrehy in Co. Cork, where the name is now often found as Corry. This Cork sept may have been a branch of the main Thomond sept. They are recorded as a sept of Corca Laoighe and the name is found also in Kerry, presumably as a result of migration. In addition to the main sept of Ó Comhraidhe another of the same name was located in County Westmeath, where they were Chiefs of Moygoish. Curristown, to which they gave their name, (now known as Belmont) is testimony to their power and significance in that area. There is also a Curry from Ulster. Slan Seamus O'More of the Moore's of Rathkeale, Co. Limerick O'Sullivan's of Castlebeartown , (I think their coat of arms was a hand with a sword being held upright) a now scattered sept of O'Sullivan's --- On Wed, 8/12/09, Barbara Mahoney <bjmahon31@verizon.net> wrote: From: Barbara Mahoney <bjmahon31@verizon.net> Subject: Re: [BEARA] Curry To: beara@rootsweb.com Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 4:36 AM My Curry was from Scotland.  Apparently it was a border tribe. -----Original Message----- From: beara-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:beara-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Julie Ohanley Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 9:37 PM To: beara@rootsweb.com Subject: [BEARA] Curry Is Curry of Beara origin?   Someone I know is seeking his Irish heritage - knows the family is from "County Cork." Julie O'Hanley ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Is Curry of Beara origin? Someone I know is seeking his Irish heritage - knows the family is from "County Cork." Julie O'Hanley

Dear Beara List: Trying to track down additional siblings from the marriage of Jeremiah Driscoll to a Margaret Sullivan. Have located births of 2 of 5 sisters Margaret b. 1867 and Ellen b 1870, plus two additional children, I was unaware of in the Civil Record. If this the correct family, there should be several more births (additional daughters and at least one son) from approximately 1860-1864. Does anyone have additional information on this family? Help much appreciated as this is the first real lead in sometime. Marge Sullivan

Walter This is interesting although I see nothing quite yet. I have an Ellen HAYES b1849, County Cork marry a John SULLIVAN b1847 in May 1867 in Immaculate Conception Tredegar. John was son of Daniel Sullivan. Ellen daughter of Joseph and Johanna HAYES. Ellen & John Sullivan had one daughter Bridget b May 1868 in Tredegar. John Sullivan is missing from the 1871 Census. Ellen and Bridget are living with her HAYES family. I have no confirmable sighting of John/Ellen/Bridget after. It is likely that John led the way to the US. That was very common. It is possible that John Sullivan died and Ellen marrried John's brother Patrick but I have not confirmed that. Joseph HAYES plus all other sons and daughters came to PIttsburgh, PA between 1874-1880. The coal and iron/steel connection is the reason. Bantry was a popular origin for the Irish in Wales. This doesn't exactly match your call but there is enough work together on here. JOhn On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 9:27 AM, <WSULLIVW@aol.com> wrote: > > Looking for information/connections, suggestions on my direct line. > My great grandfather Patrick SULLIVAN was born in Co Cork 1842-1903. He > and his brother Florence SULLIVAN 1845-1909 immigrated to Rhymney > Monmouthshire Wales where they worked in the Iron Works. Patrick married > Ellen > CUMMINGS/CUMMINS 1845-1927 daughter of John and Ellen O’BRIEN/O’BRINE > CUMMINGS. > It appears the Cummings family was parishioners of the Immaculate > Conception Church in Tredegar Wales while the Sullivan family frequented > St. John's > parish in Rhymney. > They were married 1863 in Bedwelt Monmouth Wales. At the time of their > marriage Patrick’s father John SULLIVAN was deceased. His mother was Julia > (SULLIVAN), Patrick immigrated to Northeast Pennsylvania in 1865. 1870 > Luzerne > Co Pa census indicates Patrick and Ellen CUMMNGS SULLIVAN were living in > Old Forge a boro of Scranton. They were living next door to father in law > John CUMMINGS/COMENS 1823-1888 and his family. John and Ellen were both > born > in Ireland and their family of 7 born in Wales. They had lived at 13 > Furnace Row in Rhymney > 1880 Lackawanna Co census indicates living in Old Forge was Patrick’s > uncle Michael SULLIVAN/SULLEVAN 1825-1892 and his family to include > Michael’s > mother Mary SULLIVAN 1802-bef 1900. I have not been able to find info > regarding when Michael arrived in the US. Michael married Margaret > DISKIN/DISCAN > prior to 1872 St. Joseph’s RC Church Minooka boro Scranton. > My direct SULLIVAN line was coal miners, Catholic and possibility came > from the Beara/Bantry area of Co Cork. This is based on the sensing that > most > of the Irish families that first settled in South Scranton area (Old > Forge, > Minooka, Taylor) were from that area of Cork. Some of the other families > included by were not limited to DONOVAN and HARTNETT. > Appreciate any help. Please email Walton J. SULLIVAN at _wsullivw@aol.com_ > (mailto:wsullivw@aol.com) > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy > steps! > ( > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd > =JulystepsfooterNO115<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd%0A=JulystepsfooterNO115> > ) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Looking for information/connections, suggestions on my direct line. My great grandfather Patrick SULLIVAN was born in Co Cork 1842-1903. He and his brother Florence SULLIVAN 1845-1909 immigrated to Rhymney Monmouthshire Wales where they worked in the Iron Works. Patrick married Ellen CUMMINGS/CUMMINS 1845-1927 daughter of John and Ellen O’BRIEN/O’BRINE CUMMINGS. It appears the Cummings family was parishioners of the Immaculate Conception Church in Tredegar Wales while the Sullivan family frequented St. John's parish in Rhymney. They were married 1863 in Bedwelt Monmouth Wales. At the time of their marriage Patrick’s father John SULLIVAN was deceased. His mother was Julia (SULLIVAN), Patrick immigrated to Northeast Pennsylvania in 1865. 1870 Luzerne Co Pa census indicates Patrick and Ellen CUMMNGS SULLIVAN were living in Old Forge a boro of Scranton. They were living next door to father in law John CUMMINGS/COMENS 1823-1888 and his family. John and Ellen were both born in Ireland and their family of 7 born in Wales. They had lived at 13 Furnace Row in Rhymney 1880 Lackawanna Co census indicates living in Old Forge was Patrick’s uncle Michael SULLIVAN/SULLEVAN 1825-1892 and his family to include Michael’s mother Mary SULLIVAN 1802-bef 1900. I have not been able to find info regarding when Michael arrived in the US. Michael married Margaret DISKIN/DISCAN prior to 1872 St. Joseph’s RC Church Minooka boro Scranton. My direct SULLIVAN line was coal miners, Catholic and possibility came from the Beara/Bantry area of Co Cork. This is based on the sensing that most of the Irish families that first settled in South Scranton area (Old Forge, Minooka, Taylor) were from that area of Cork. Some of the other families included by were not limited to DONOVAN and HARTNETT. Appreciate any help. Please email Walton J. SULLIVAN at _wsullivw@aol.com_ (mailto:wsullivw@aol.com) **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =JulystepsfooterNO115)

Can anyone help with information on Denis Sullivan and his wife Margaret....in particular their marriage details...they lived in the townland of Roscawen? Bob Simmonds

Plus, if literally everyone went by this pattern (if I'm reading it right) it would have caused some confusion; a third son, being named after his father, would have passed the same name on to both his first and third sons! Brian ________________________________________ From: beara-bounces@rootsweb.com [beara-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Bill Gawne [gawne@cesmail.net] Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 2:30 PM To: beara@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BEARA] naming patterns and possible clues to ancestry??? Mary Tyrrell <mary.tyrrell@yale.edu> writes: > And everyone didn't go by the "rules"!! Of course they didn't! They were Irish, after all. -- Bill ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes, infant deaths were very common. Our ancestor Jeremiah (named for his maternal gp) was the 5th born and only survivng child of what appears to be at least 9 baptisms---and this was the generation that immigrated! His 1893 birthcertificate, signed by the midwife included the number of previous pregnancies. Otherwise, I would have never thought to search for earlier children. The previous generation (Jeremiah's father, Eugene Sullivan), four children (all sons) either died in infancy or childhood. Marge ----- Original Message ----- From: "O'Sullivan, Brian P" <bposullivan@smcm.edu> To: <beara@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [BEARA] naming patterns and possible clues to ancestry??? It doesn't seem to work for mine, either; no one in my father's generation was named after my grandfather, Cornelius (or his father, also Cornelius). But then again, I think there were at least one or two infant deaths, and I don't know their names or their place in the birth order--so it's possible that the eldest of my father's generation was named Cornelius but didn't survive. I mention this because infant deaths must have been very common, and not knowing about them could throw off our perception of the order of names in a family. Brian ________________________________________ From: beara-bounces@rootsweb.com [beara-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ms A [sigtab@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 12:24 AM To: beara@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BEARA] naming patterns and possible clues to ancestry??? @kerrykuzzin: Thanks for the response. Oh, darn...the naming pattern you posted does not work for my family: the fourth son (instead of the third son) was named after the father... and the second daughter (not the third) was named after the mother... Dang it! Thanks much, though, for posting this. I appreciate it! Laura > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:29:02 -0700 > From: kerrykuzzin@dslextreme.com > To: beara@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [BEARA] naming patterns and possible clues to ancestry??? > > Laura, > This is the version that I have seen most often and the one I have in my > files: > > Children within an Irish family were traditionally named according to the > following pattern: > First son after father's father > Second son after mother's father > Third son after father > Fourth son after father's oldest brother > Fifth son after mother's oldest brother > First daughter after mother's mother > Second daughter after father's mother > Third daughter after mother > Fourth daughter after mother's oldest sister > Fifth daughter after father's oldest sister > > > On 7/22/09, Ms A <sigtab@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > Hello All, > > > > I've been a lurker on this Beara list for years, and enjoy all the > > posts, > > and the wealth of valuable info. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!! > > > > My question for today: > > > > How reliable are the naming patterns of children of a particular > > Irish-born > > couple to ascertain the probable names of the parents of said couple? > > > > For instance: > > > > My ancestors, Eugene Owen Sullivan (born ca 1830, Cork) and Mary Murphy > > (born ca 1830, Ireland) had the following children, all born in > > Hannibal, > > Marion County, MO, in the 1850's/1860's: > > > > Ellen H. Sullivan > > Mary Ellen Sullivan > > Daniel Joseph Sullivan > > John J. Sullivan > > Timothy J. Sullivan > > Eugene W. Sullivan > > > > I'm at that proverbial "brick wall" with my Eugene Sullivan and Mary > > Murphy > > and don't know where else to turn to try to find their parents or their > > parishes/townlands in Ireland. > > > > So....How "safe" is it for me to use the names of their children as > > "clues" > > that their children were probably named after Eugene and Mary's > > grandparents, siblings, etc.? And if so, how do the naming patterns > > usually > > work? > > > > Any opinions? warnings? > > > > Thanks a million!! > > > > Laura > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Bing™ brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it > > now. > > http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_MLOGEN_Local_Local_Restaurants_1x1 > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in > > the subject and the body of the message > > > > > -- > Slán, > Marge in Southern California > > Searching: > Golden, Sullivan, Kelly, Shea, in Kerry and Connecticut > O'Connor in Kerry > Fee, Cassidy, Gilbride in Fermanagh, Cavan and Connecticut > Lynch in Limerick and Connecticut > Walsh, Stackpole, Garry/Garrey/McGarrey, Donovan in Kildare > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Search, add, and share the web’s latest sports videos. Check it out. http://www.windowslive.com/Online/Hotmail/Campaign/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_QA_HM_sports_videos_072009&cat=sports ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Mary Tyrrell <mary.tyrrell@yale.edu> writes: > And everyone didn't go by the "rules"!! Of course they didn't! They were Irish, after all. -- Bill

Lisa, Thanks! I'm definitely heeding now... Mary, LOL. True, they didn't all play by the rules, did they? That's another thing I often forget, when ancestor hunting. Thanks! Laura > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 11:39:32 -0400 > To: beara@rootsweb.com; beara@rootsweb.com > From: mary.tyrrell@yale.edu > Subject: Re: [BEARA] naming patterns and possible clues to ancestry??? > > And everyone didn't go by the "rules"!! > > Mary Tyrrell > > At 01:10 AM 7/24/2009, Kevin Kelly wrote: > >Laura, > > > >Remember there might be "lost" children who died in infancy. Many times, > >later generations would not be told of them (I suppose sometimes it was a > >comfort for the parents to forget, and not speak of them). It can toss a > >spanner into what you think should be the "proper" naming order. > > > >Also, when a child died very young, sometimes the parents would "revive" the > >name and use it for a later child. That can muck things up if you were > >expecting a nice, tidy story. > > > >Kevin in MO > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Ms A" <sigtab@hotmail.com> > >To: <beara@rootsweb.com> > >Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 11:24 PM > >Subject: Re: [BEARA] naming patterns and possible clues to ancestry??? > > > > > > > >@kerrykuzzin: > > > >Thanks for the response. > > > >Oh, darn...the naming pattern you posted does not work for my family: the > >fourth son (instead of the third son) was named after the father... > >and the second daughter (not the third) was named after the mother... > > > >Dang it! > > > >Thanks much, though, for posting this. I appreciate it! > >Laura > > > > > > > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:29:02 -0700 > > > From: kerrykuzzin@dslextreme.com > > > To: beara@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: [BEARA] naming patterns and possible clues to ancestry??? > > > > > > Laura, > > > This is the version that I have seen most often and the one I have in my > > > files: > > > > > > Children within an Irish family were traditionally named according to the > > > following pattern: > > > First son after father's father > > > Second son after mother's father > > > Third son after father > > > Fourth son after father's oldest brother > > > Fifth son after mother's oldest brother > > > First daughter after mother's mother > > > Second daughter after father's mother > > > Third daughter after mother > > > Fourth daughter after mother's oldest sister > > > Fifth daughter after father's oldest sister > > > > > > > > > On 7/22/09, Ms A <sigtab@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello All, > > > > > > > > I've been a lurker on this Beara list for years, and enjoy all the > > > > posts, > > > > and the wealth of valuable info. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!! > > > > > > > > My question for today: > > > > > > > > How reliable are the naming patterns of children of a particular > > > > Irish-born > > > > couple to ascertain the probable names of the parents of said couple? > > > > > > > > For instance: > > > > > > > > My ancestors, Eugene Owen Sullivan (born ca 1830, Cork) and Mary Murphy > > > > (born ca 1830, Ireland) had the following children, all born in > > > > Hannibal, > > > > Marion County, MO, in the 1850's/1860's: > > > > > > > > Ellen H. Sullivan > > > > Mary Ellen Sullivan > > > > Daniel Joseph Sullivan > > > > John J. Sullivan > > > > Timothy J. Sullivan > > > > Eugene W. Sullivan > > > > > > > > I'm at that proverbial "brick wall" with my Eugene Sullivan and Mary > > > > Murphy > > > > and don't know where else to turn to try to find their parents or their > > > > parishes/townlands in Ireland. > > > > > > > > So....How "safe" is it for me to use the names of their children as > > > > "clues" > > > > that their children were probably named after Eugene and Mary's > > > > grandparents, siblings, etc.? And if so, how do the naming patterns > > > > usually > > > > work? > > > > > > > > Any opinions? warnings? > > > > > > > > Thanks a million!! > > > > > > > > Laura > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Bing™ brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it > > > > now. > > > > > > http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_MLOGEN_Local_Local_Restaurants_1x1 > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > quotes in > > > > the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Slán, > > > Marge in Southern California > > > > > > Searching: > > > Golden, Sullivan, Kelly, Shea, in Kerry and Connecticut > > > O'Connor in Kerry > > > Fee, Cassidy, Gilbride in Fermanagh, Cavan and Connecticut > > > Lynch in Limerick and Connecticut > > > Walsh, Stackpole, Garry/Garrey/McGarrey, Donovan in Kildare > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Search, add, and share the web’s latest sports > >videos. Check it out. > >http://www.windowslive.com/Online/Hotmail/Campaign/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_QA_HM_sports_videos_072009&cat=sports > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > >the subject and the body of the message > > > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.23/2254 - Release Date: 07/22/09 > >05:59:00 > > > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > >email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the > >word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > >subject and the body of the message > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Mary Tyrrell > Executive Director > Global Institute of Sustainable Forestry > Yale School of Forestry and Environmental Studies > 195 Prospect Street > New Haven, Connecticut 06511 > Phone: 203-432-5983 > FAX: 203-432-3809 > www.yale.edu/gisf > > > Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Search, add, and share the web’s latest sports videos. 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Kevin, Brian, Thanks for bringing up the factor of infant deaths. That's certainly a possibility. I keep forgetting how high infant mortality rates really were a century ago. However, I did just re-check the 1900 Federal Census for Hannibal, Missouri, and my Mary (Murphy) Sullivan DOES state she gave birth to six children, ALL still living...But, we all know the census info doesn't always reflect the "truth," either.... Susan, Good tip about comparing naming patterns of children of siblings. I'll go back and check them for clues. Thanks! And as to the baptisms and sponsors----I haven't been able to obtain ANY baptisms for this family, yet, or marriage records for that matter. So far, my info on my Sullivan/Murphy line has all come from Federal Censuses, cemetery records, and family anecdotes. Hopefully, when I can get up to Hannibal, MO, and can beg the parish priest to let me look thru the old parish registers, I will finally find some great new info! Thanks Everyone! Laura > From: bposullivan@smcm.edu > To: beara@rootsweb.com > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 12:18:22 -0400 > Subject: Re: [BEARA] naming patterns and possible clues to ancestry??? > > It doesn't seem to work for mine, either; no one in my father's generation was named after my grandfather, Cornelius (or his father, also Cornelius). But then again, I think there were at least one or two infant deaths, and I don't know their names or their place in the birth order--so it's possible that the eldest of my father's generation was named Cornelius but didn't survive. I mention this because infant deaths must have been very common, and not knowing about them could throw off our perception of the order of names in a family. > Brian > ________________________________________ > From: beara-bounces@rootsweb.com [beara-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ms A [sigtab@hotmail.com] > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 12:24 AM > To: beara@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [BEARA] naming patterns and possible clues to ancestry??? > > @kerrykuzzin: > > Thanks for the response. > > Oh, darn...the naming pattern you posted does not work for my family: the fourth son (instead of the third son) was named after the father... > and the second daughter (not the third) was named after the mother... > > Dang it! > > Thanks much, though, for posting this. I appreciate it! > Laura > > > > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:29:02 -0700 > > From: kerrykuzzin@dslextreme.com > > To: beara@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [BEARA] naming patterns and possible clues to ancestry??? > > > > Laura, > > This is the version that I have seen most often and the one I have in my files: > > > > Children within an Irish family were traditionally named according to the > > following pattern: > > First son after father's father > > Second son after mother's father > > Third son after father > > Fourth son after father's oldest brother > > Fifth son after mother's oldest brother > > First daughter after mother's mother > > Second daughter after father's mother > > Third daughter after mother > > Fourth daughter after mother's oldest sister > > Fifth daughter after father's oldest sister > > > > > > On 7/22/09, Ms A <sigtab@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > Hello All, > > > > > > I've been a lurker on this Beara list for years, and enjoy all the posts, > > > and the wealth of valuable info. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!! > > > > > > My question for today: > > > > > > How reliable are the naming patterns of children of a particular Irish-born > > > couple to ascertain the probable names of the parents of said couple? > > > > > > For instance: > > > > > > My ancestors, Eugene Owen Sullivan (born ca 1830, Cork) and Mary Murphy > > > (born ca 1830, Ireland) had the following children, all born in Hannibal, > > > Marion County, MO, in the 1850's/1860's: > > > > > > Ellen H. Sullivan > > > Mary Ellen Sullivan > > > Daniel Joseph Sullivan > > > John J. Sullivan > > > Timothy J. Sullivan > > > Eugene W. Sullivan > > > > > > I'm at that proverbial "brick wall" with my Eugene Sullivan and Mary Murphy > > > and don't know where else to turn to try to find their parents or their > > > parishes/townlands in Ireland. > > > > > > So....How "safe" is it for me to use the names of their children as "clues" > > > that their children were probably named after Eugene and Mary's > > > grandparents, siblings, etc.? And if so, how do the naming patterns usually > > > work? > > > > > > Any opinions? warnings? > > > > > > Thanks a million!! > > > > > > Laura > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Bing™ brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it > > > now. > > > http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_MLOGEN_Local_Local_Restaurants_1x1 > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > > > the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > -- > > Slán, > > Marge in Southern California > > > > Searching: > > Golden, Sullivan, Kelly, Shea, in Kerry and Connecticut > > O'Connor in Kerry > > Fee, Cassidy, Gilbride in Fermanagh, Cavan and Connecticut > > Lynch in Limerick and Connecticut > > Walsh, Stackpole, Garry/Garrey/McGarrey, Donovan in Kildare > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Search, add, and share the web’s latest sports videos. Check it out. > http://www.windowslive.com/Online/Hotmail/Campaign/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_QA_HM_sports_videos_072009&cat=sports > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Search, add, and share the web’s latest sports videos. Check it out. http://www.windowslive.com/Online/Hotmail/Campaign/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_QA_HM_sports_videos_072009&cat=sports

It doesn't seem to work for mine, either; no one in my father's generation was named after my grandfather, Cornelius (or his father, also Cornelius). But then again, I think there were at least one or two infant deaths, and I don't know their names or their place in the birth order--so it's possible that the eldest of my father's generation was named Cornelius but didn't survive. I mention this because infant deaths must have been very common, and not knowing about them could throw off our perception of the order of names in a family. Brian ________________________________________ From: beara-bounces@rootsweb.com [beara-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ms A [sigtab@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 12:24 AM To: beara@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BEARA] naming patterns and possible clues to ancestry??? @kerrykuzzin: Thanks for the response. Oh, darn...the naming pattern you posted does not work for my family: the fourth son (instead of the third son) was named after the father... and the second daughter (not the third) was named after the mother... Dang it! Thanks much, though, for posting this. I appreciate it! Laura > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:29:02 -0700 > From: kerrykuzzin@dslextreme.com > To: beara@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [BEARA] naming patterns and possible clues to ancestry??? > > Laura, > This is the version that I have seen most often and the one I have in my files: > > Children within an Irish family were traditionally named according to the > following pattern: > First son after father's father > Second son after mother's father > Third son after father > Fourth son after father's oldest brother > Fifth son after mother's oldest brother > First daughter after mother's mother > Second daughter after father's mother > Third daughter after mother > Fourth daughter after mother's oldest sister > Fifth daughter after father's oldest sister > > > On 7/22/09, Ms A <sigtab@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > Hello All, > > > > I've been a lurker on this Beara list for years, and enjoy all the posts, > > and the wealth of valuable info. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!! > > > > My question for today: > > > > How reliable are the naming patterns of children of a particular Irish-born > > couple to ascertain the probable names of the parents of said couple? > > > > For instance: > > > > My ancestors, Eugene Owen Sullivan (born ca 1830, Cork) and Mary Murphy > > (born ca 1830, Ireland) had the following children, all born in Hannibal, > > Marion County, MO, in the 1850's/1860's: > > > > Ellen H. Sullivan > > Mary Ellen Sullivan > > Daniel Joseph Sullivan > > John J. Sullivan > > Timothy J. Sullivan > > Eugene W. Sullivan > > > > I'm at that proverbial "brick wall" with my Eugene Sullivan and Mary Murphy > > and don't know where else to turn to try to find their parents or their > > parishes/townlands in Ireland. > > > > So....How "safe" is it for me to use the names of their children as "clues" > > that their children were probably named after Eugene and Mary's > > grandparents, siblings, etc.? And if so, how do the naming patterns usually > > work? > > > > Any opinions? warnings? > > > > Thanks a million!! > > > > Laura > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Bing™ brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it > > now. > > http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_MLOGEN_Local_Local_Restaurants_1x1 > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > > the subject and the body of the message > > > > > -- > Slán, > Marge in Southern California > > Searching: > Golden, Sullivan, Kelly, Shea, in Kerry and Connecticut > O'Connor in Kerry > Fee, Cassidy, Gilbride in Fermanagh, Cavan and Connecticut > Lynch in Limerick and Connecticut > Walsh, Stackpole, Garry/Garrey/McGarrey, Donovan in Kildare > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Search, add, and share the web’s latest sports videos. Check it out. http://www.windowslive.com/Online/Hotmail/Campaign/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_QA_HM_sports_videos_072009&cat=sports ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

And everyone didn't go by the "rules"!! Mary Tyrrell At 01:10 AM 7/24/2009, Kevin Kelly wrote: >Laura, > >Remember there might be "lost" children who died in infancy. Many times, >later generations would not be told of them (I suppose sometimes it was a >comfort for the parents to forget, and not speak of them). It can toss a >spanner into what you think should be the "proper" naming order. > >Also, when a child died very young, sometimes the parents would "revive" the >name and use it for a later child. That can muck things up if you were >expecting a nice, tidy story. > >Kevin in MO > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ms A" <sigtab@hotmail.com> >To: <beara@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 11:24 PM >Subject: Re: [BEARA] naming patterns and possible clues to ancestry??? > > > >@kerrykuzzin: > >Thanks for the response. > >Oh, darn...the naming pattern you posted does not work for my family: the >fourth son (instead of the third son) was named after the father... >and the second daughter (not the third) was named after the mother... > >Dang it! > >Thanks much, though, for posting this. I appreciate it! >Laura > > > > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:29:02 -0700 > > From: kerrykuzzin@dslextreme.com > > To: beara@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [BEARA] naming patterns and possible clues to ancestry??? > > > > Laura, > > This is the version that I have seen most often and the one I have in my > > files: > > > > Children within an Irish family were traditionally named according to the > > following pattern: > > First son after father's father > > Second son after mother's father > > Third son after father > > Fourth son after father's oldest brother > > Fifth son after mother's oldest brother > > First daughter after mother's mother > > Second daughter after father's mother > > Third daughter after mother > > Fourth daughter after mother's oldest sister > > Fifth daughter after father's oldest sister > > > > > > On 7/22/09, Ms A <sigtab@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > Hello All, > > > > > > I've been a lurker on this Beara list for years, and enjoy all the > > > posts, > > > and the wealth of valuable info. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!! > > > > > > My question for today: > > > > > > How reliable are the naming patterns of children of a particular > > > Irish-born > > > couple to ascertain the probable names of the parents of said couple? > > > > > > For instance: > > > > > > My ancestors, Eugene Owen Sullivan (born ca 1830, Cork) and Mary Murphy > > > (born ca 1830, Ireland) had the following children, all born in > > > Hannibal, > > > Marion County, MO, in the 1850's/1860's: > > > > > > Ellen H. Sullivan > > > Mary Ellen Sullivan > > > Daniel Joseph Sullivan > > > John J. Sullivan > > > Timothy J. Sullivan > > > Eugene W. Sullivan > > > > > > I'm at that proverbial "brick wall" with my Eugene Sullivan and Mary > > > Murphy > > > and don't know where else to turn to try to find their parents or their > > > parishes/townlands in Ireland. > > > > > > So....How "safe" is it for me to use the names of their children as > > > "clues" > > > that their children were probably named after Eugene and Mary's > > > grandparents, siblings, etc.? And if so, how do the naming patterns > > > usually > > > work? > > > > > > Any opinions? warnings? > > > > > > Thanks a million!! > > > > > > Laura > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Bing™ brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it > > > now. > > > > http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_MLOGEN_Local_Local_Restaurants_1x1 > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in > > > the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > -- > > Slán, > > Marge in Southern California > > > > Searching: > > Golden, Sullivan, Kelly, Shea, in Kerry and Connecticut > > O'Connor in Kerry > > Fee, Cassidy, Gilbride in Fermanagh, Cavan and Connecticut > > Lynch in Limerick and Connecticut > > Walsh, Stackpole, Garry/Garrey/McGarrey, Donovan in Kildare > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > >_________________________________________________________________ >Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Search, add, and share the web’s latest sports >videos. Check it out. >http://www.windowslive.com/Online/Hotmail/Campaign/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_QA_HM_sports_videos_072009&cat=sports > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in >the subject and the body of the message > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.23/2254 - Release Date: 07/22/09 >05:59:00 > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the >word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the >subject and the body of the message ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mary Tyrrell Executive Director Global Institute of Sustainable Forestry Yale School of Forestry and Environmental Studies 195 Prospect Street New Haven, Connecticut 06511 Phone: 203-432-5983 FAX: 203-432-3809 www.yale.edu/gisf Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

Sometimes the parent is named after a parent, so that is why it would seem out of order. If grandad is named John and his son is named John, then when they name the first boy (grandson) John, you wonder, is it after the father or the grandad whose name I don't know yet? Same with mother/grandmother. Can be tricky, but definitely a clue! I would look at other family groups (like that dad's siblings) to see how they named their children and in what order. If you see a matching pattern, all the better. Also, if you find the baptism records, compare the baby's name with the sponsors. Are they the same? Then the child might be named after the sponsor. On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 11:24 PM, Ms A <sigtab@hotmail.com> wrote: > > @kerrykuzzin: > > Thanks for the response. > > Oh, darn...the naming pattern you posted does not work for my family: the > fourth son (instead of the third son) was named after the father... > and the second daughter (not the third) was named after the mother... > > Dang it! > > Thanks much, though, for posting this. I appreciate it! > Laura > > > > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:29:02 -0700 > > From: kerrykuzzin@dslextreme.com > > To: beara@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [BEARA] naming patterns and possible clues to ancestry??? > > > > Laura, > > This is the version that I have seen most often and the one I have in my > files: > > > > Children within an Irish family were traditionally named according to the > > following pattern: > > First son after father's father > > Second son after mother's father > > Third son after father > > Fourth son after father's oldest brother > > Fifth son after mother's oldest brother > > First daughter after mother's mother > > Second daughter after father's mother > > Third daughter after mother > > Fourth daughter after mother's oldest sister > > Fifth daughter after father's oldest sister > > > > > > On 7/22/09, Ms A <sigtab@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > Hello All, > > > > > > I've been a lurker on this Beara list for years, and enjoy all the > posts, > > > and the wealth of valuable info. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!! > > > > > > My question for today: > > > > > > How reliable are the naming patterns of children of a particular > Irish-born > > > couple to ascertain the probable names of the parents of said couple? > > > > > > For instance: > > > > > > My ancestors, Eugene Owen Sullivan (born ca 1830, Cork) and Mary Murphy > > > (born ca 1830, Ireland) had the following children, all born in > Hannibal, > > > Marion County, MO, in the 1850's/1860's: > > > > > > Ellen H. Sullivan > > > Mary Ellen Sullivan > > > Daniel Joseph Sullivan > > > John J. Sullivan > > > Timothy J. Sullivan > > > Eugene W. Sullivan > > > > > > I'm at that proverbial "brick wall" with my Eugene Sullivan and Mary > Murphy > > > and don't know where else to turn to try to find their parents or their > > > parishes/townlands in Ireland. > > > > > > So....How "safe" is it for me to use the names of their children as > "clues" > > > that their children were probably named after Eugene and Mary's > > > grandparents, siblings, etc.? And if so, how do the naming patterns > usually > > > work? > > > > > > Any opinions? warnings? > > > > > > Thanks a million!! > > > > > > Laura > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Bing™ brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try > it > > > now. > > > > http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_MLOGEN_Local_Local_Restaurants_1x1 > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in > > > the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > -- > > Slán, > > Marge in Southern California > > > > Searching: > > Golden, Sullivan, Kelly, Shea, in Kerry and Connecticut > > O'Connor in Kerry > > Fee, Cassidy, Gilbride in Fermanagh, Cavan and Connecticut > > Lynch in Limerick and Connecticut > > Walsh, Stackpole, Garry/Garrey/McGarrey, Donovan in Kildare > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Search, add, and share the web’s latest sports > videos. Check it out. > > http://www.windowslive.com/Online/Hotmail/Campaign/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_QA_HM_sports_videos_072009&cat=sports > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Heed Kevin, Laura. I had a Michael that died very young and a 'later' child than named Mikey. Lisa O' -----Original Message----- From: beara-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:beara-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Kelly Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 12:11 AM To: beara@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BEARA] naming patterns and possible clues to ancestry??? Laura, Remember there might be "lost" children who died in infancy. Many times, later generations would not be told of them (I suppose sometimes it was a comfort for the parents to forget, and not speak of them). It can toss a spanner into what you think should be the "proper" naming order. Also, when a child died very young, sometimes the parents would "revive" the name and use it for a later child. That can muck things up if you were expecting a nice, tidy story. Kevin in MO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ms A" <sigtab@hotmail.com> To: <beara@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 11:24 PM Subject: Re: [BEARA] naming patterns and possible clues to ancestry??? @kerrykuzzin: Thanks for the response. Oh, darn...the naming pattern you posted does not work for my family: the fourth son (instead of the third son) was named after the father... and the second daughter (not the third) was named after the mother... Dang it! Thanks much, though, for posting this. I appreciate it! Laura > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:29:02 -0700 > From: kerrykuzzin@dslextreme.com > To: beara@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [BEARA] naming patterns and possible clues to ancestry??? > > Laura, > This is the version that I have seen most often and the one I have in my > files: > > Children within an Irish family were traditionally named according to the > following pattern: > First son after father's father > Second son after mother's father > Third son after father > Fourth son after father's oldest brother > Fifth son after mother's oldest brother > First daughter after mother's mother > Second daughter after father's mother > Third daughter after mother > Fourth daughter after mother's oldest sister > Fifth daughter after father's oldest sister > > > On 7/22/09, Ms A <sigtab@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > Hello All, > > > > I've been a lurker on this Beara list for years, and enjoy all the > > posts, > > and the wealth of valuable info. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!! > > > > My question for today: > > > > How reliable are the naming patterns of children of a particular > > Irish-born > > couple to ascertain the probable names of the parents of said couple? > > > > For instance: > > > > My ancestors, Eugene Owen Sullivan (born ca 1830, Cork) and Mary Murphy > > (born ca 1830, Ireland) had the following children, all born in > > Hannibal, > > Marion County, MO, in the 1850's/1860's: > > > > Ellen H. Sullivan > > Mary Ellen Sullivan > > Daniel Joseph Sullivan > > John J. Sullivan > > Timothy J. Sullivan > > Eugene W. Sullivan > > > > I'm at that proverbial "brick wall" with my Eugene Sullivan and Mary > > Murphy > > and don't know where else to turn to try to find their parents or their > > parishes/townlands in Ireland. > > > > So....How "safe" is it for me to use the names of their children as > > "clues" > > that their children were probably named after Eugene and Mary's > > grandparents, siblings, etc.? And if so, how do the naming patterns > > usually > > work? > > > > Any opinions? warnings? > > > > Thanks a million!! > > > > Laura > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Bing™ brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it > > now. > > http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_M LOGEN_Local_Local_Restaurants_1x1 > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in > > the subject and the body of the message > > > > > -- > Slán, > Marge in Southern California > > Searching: > Golden, Sullivan, Kelly, Shea, in Kerry and Connecticut > O'Connor in Kerry > Fee, Cassidy, Gilbride in Fermanagh, Cavan and Connecticut > Lynch in Limerick and Connecticut > Walsh, Stackpole, Garry/Garrey/McGarrey, Donovan in Kildare > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Search, add, and share the web’s latest sports videos. Check it out. http://www.windowslive.com/Online/Hotmail/Campaign/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_W L_QA_HM_sports_videos_072009&cat=sports ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.23/2254 - Release Date: 07/22/09 05:59:00 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

@kerrykuzzin: Thanks for the response. Oh, darn...the naming pattern you posted does not work for my family: the fourth son (instead of the third son) was named after the father... and the second daughter (not the third) was named after the mother... Dang it! Thanks much, though, for posting this. I appreciate it! Laura > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:29:02 -0700 > From: kerrykuzzin@dslextreme.com > To: beara@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [BEARA] naming patterns and possible clues to ancestry??? > > Laura, > This is the version that I have seen most often and the one I have in my files: > > Children within an Irish family were traditionally named according to the > following pattern: > First son after father's father > Second son after mother's father > Third son after father > Fourth son after father's oldest brother > Fifth son after mother's oldest brother > First daughter after mother's mother > Second daughter after father's mother > Third daughter after mother > Fourth daughter after mother's oldest sister > Fifth daughter after father's oldest sister > > > On 7/22/09, Ms A <sigtab@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > Hello All, > > > > I've been a lurker on this Beara list for years, and enjoy all the posts, > > and the wealth of valuable info. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!! > > > > My question for today: > > > > How reliable are the naming patterns of children of a particular Irish-born > > couple to ascertain the probable names of the parents of said couple? > > > > For instance: > > > > My ancestors, Eugene Owen Sullivan (born ca 1830, Cork) and Mary Murphy > > (born ca 1830, Ireland) had the following children, all born in Hannibal, > > Marion County, MO, in the 1850's/1860's: > > > > Ellen H. Sullivan > > Mary Ellen Sullivan > > Daniel Joseph Sullivan > > John J. Sullivan > > Timothy J. Sullivan > > Eugene W. Sullivan > > > > I'm at that proverbial "brick wall" with my Eugene Sullivan and Mary Murphy > > and don't know where else to turn to try to find their parents or their > > parishes/townlands in Ireland. > > > > So....How "safe" is it for me to use the names of their children as "clues" > > that their children were probably named after Eugene and Mary's > > grandparents, siblings, etc.? And if so, how do the naming patterns usually > > work? > > > > Any opinions? warnings? > > > > Thanks a million!! > > > > Laura > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Bing™ brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it > > now. > > http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_MLOGEN_Local_Local_Restaurants_1x1 > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > > the subject and the body of the message > > > > > -- > Slán, > Marge in Southern California > > Searching: > Golden, Sullivan, Kelly, Shea, in Kerry and Connecticut > O'Connor in Kerry > Fee, Cassidy, Gilbride in Fermanagh, Cavan and Connecticut > Lynch in Limerick and Connecticut > Walsh, Stackpole, Garry/Garrey/McGarrey, Donovan in Kildare > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Search, add, and share the web’s latest sports videos. Check it out. http://www.windowslive.com/Online/Hotmail/Campaign/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_QA_HM_sports_videos_072009&cat=sports

Laura, Remember there might be "lost" children who died in infancy. Many times, later generations would not be told of them (I suppose sometimes it was a comfort for the parents to forget, and not speak of them). It can toss a spanner into what you think should be the "proper" naming order. Also, when a child died very young, sometimes the parents would "revive" the name and use it for a later child. That can muck things up if you were expecting a nice, tidy story. Kevin in MO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ms A" <sigtab@hotmail.com> To: <beara@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 11:24 PM Subject: Re: [BEARA] naming patterns and possible clues to ancestry??? @kerrykuzzin: Thanks for the response. Oh, darn...the naming pattern you posted does not work for my family: the fourth son (instead of the third son) was named after the father... and the second daughter (not the third) was named after the mother... Dang it! Thanks much, though, for posting this. I appreciate it! Laura > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:29:02 -0700 > From: kerrykuzzin@dslextreme.com > To: beara@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [BEARA] naming patterns and possible clues to ancestry??? > > Laura, > This is the version that I have seen most often and the one I have in my > files: > > Children within an Irish family were traditionally named according to the > following pattern: > First son after father's father > Second son after mother's father > Third son after father > Fourth son after father's oldest brother > Fifth son after mother's oldest brother > First daughter after mother's mother > Second daughter after father's mother > Third daughter after mother > Fourth daughter after mother's oldest sister > Fifth daughter after father's oldest sister > > > On 7/22/09, Ms A <sigtab@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > Hello All, > > > > I've been a lurker on this Beara list for years, and enjoy all the > > posts, > > and the wealth of valuable info. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!! > > > > My question for today: > > > > How reliable are the naming patterns of children of a particular > > Irish-born > > couple to ascertain the probable names of the parents of said couple? > > > > For instance: > > > > My ancestors, Eugene Owen Sullivan (born ca 1830, Cork) and Mary Murphy > > (born ca 1830, Ireland) had the following children, all born in > > Hannibal, > > Marion County, MO, in the 1850's/1860's: > > > > Ellen H. Sullivan > > Mary Ellen Sullivan > > Daniel Joseph Sullivan > > John J. Sullivan > > Timothy J. Sullivan > > Eugene W. Sullivan > > > > I'm at that proverbial "brick wall" with my Eugene Sullivan and Mary > > Murphy > > and don't know where else to turn to try to find their parents or their > > parishes/townlands in Ireland. > > > > So....How "safe" is it for me to use the names of their children as > > "clues" > > that their children were probably named after Eugene and Mary's > > grandparents, siblings, etc.? And if so, how do the naming patterns > > usually > > work? > > > > Any opinions? warnings? > > > > Thanks a million!! > > > > Laura > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Bing™ brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it > > now. > > http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_MLOGEN_Local_Local_Restaurants_1x1 > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in > > the subject and the body of the message > > > > > -- > Slán, > Marge in Southern California > > Searching: > Golden, Sullivan, Kelly, Shea, in Kerry and Connecticut > O'Connor in Kerry > Fee, Cassidy, Gilbride in Fermanagh, Cavan and Connecticut > Lynch in Limerick and Connecticut > Walsh, Stackpole, Garry/Garrey/McGarrey, Donovan in Kildare > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Search, add, and share the web’s latest sports videos. Check it out. http://www.windowslive.com/Online/Hotmail/Campaign/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_QA_HM_sports_videos_072009&cat=sports ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.23/2254 - Release Date: 07/22/09 05:59:00

Laura, This is the version that I have seen most often and the one I have in my files: Children within an Irish family were traditionally named according to the following pattern: First son after father's father Second son after mother's father Third son after father Fourth son after father's oldest brother Fifth son after mother's oldest brother First daughter after mother's mother Second daughter after father's mother Third daughter after mother Fourth daughter after mother's oldest sister Fifth daughter after father's oldest sister On 7/22/09, Ms A <sigtab@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Hello All, > > I've been a lurker on this Beara list for years, and enjoy all the posts, > and the wealth of valuable info. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!! > > My question for today: > > How reliable are the naming patterns of children of a particular Irish-born > couple to ascertain the probable names of the parents of said couple? > > For instance: > > My ancestors, Eugene Owen Sullivan (born ca 1830, Cork) and Mary Murphy > (born ca 1830, Ireland) had the following children, all born in Hannibal, > Marion County, MO, in the 1850's/1860's: > > Ellen H. Sullivan > Mary Ellen Sullivan > Daniel Joseph Sullivan > John J. Sullivan > Timothy J. Sullivan > Eugene W. Sullivan > > I'm at that proverbial "brick wall" with my Eugene Sullivan and Mary Murphy > and don't know where else to turn to try to find their parents or their > parishes/townlands in Ireland. > > So....How "safe" is it for me to use the names of their children as "clues" > that their children were probably named after Eugene and Mary's > grandparents, siblings, etc.? And if so, how do the naming patterns usually > work? > > Any opinions? warnings? > > Thanks a million!! > > Laura > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Bing™ brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it > now. > http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_MLOGEN_Local_Local_Restaurants_1x1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BEARA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > -- Slán, Marge in Southern California Searching: Golden, Sullivan, Kelly, Shea, in Kerry and Connecticut O'Connor in Kerry Fee, Cassidy, Gilbride in Fermanagh, Cavan and Connecticut Lynch in Limerick and Connecticut Walsh, Stackpole, Garry/Garrey/McGarrey, Donovan in Kildare

Hello All, I've been a lurker on this Beara list for years, and enjoy all the posts, and the wealth of valuable info. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!! My question for today: How reliable are the naming patterns of children of a particular Irish-born couple to ascertain the probable names of the parents of said couple? For instance: My ancestors, Eugene Owen Sullivan (born ca 1830, Cork) and Mary Murphy (born ca 1830, Ireland) had the following children, all born in Hannibal, Marion County, MO, in the 1850's/1860's: Ellen H. Sullivan Mary Ellen Sullivan Daniel Joseph Sullivan John J. Sullivan Timothy J. Sullivan Eugene W. Sullivan I'm at that proverbial "brick wall" with my Eugene Sullivan and Mary Murphy and don't know where else to turn to try to find their parents or their parishes/townlands in Ireland. So....How "safe" is it for me to use the names of their children as "clues" that their children were probably named after Eugene and Mary's grandparents, siblings, etc.? And if so, how do the naming patterns usually work? Any opinions? warnings? Thanks a million!! Laura _________________________________________________________________ Bing™ brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now. http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_MLOGEN_Local_Local_Restaurants_1x1