Norm, Thank you for your response. This confirms what I have found in my studies. So the next question is, what might account for the Hanover/Saxe-Coburg discrepancy? Some related information: - Henry Lange/Long was 23 years old in 1860 when the census lists his place of birth as Saxe Coberg. He was only 8 when the family came to the US from Germany. I suppose an 8 year old might have been confused about his birthplace. His father died in 1845, and his mother died in ~1855. - The 1860 census in the same county lists several other persons whose members were born in Saxe-Coburg. I need to revisit that census and see who they were. - The obituaries of three of the Lange/Long brothers all state that each was born in Hanover. Kay (not Kathy :) [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: Norm B [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 11:11 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg and/or Hanover Kathy, In 1825, the ruling line of Saxe-Gotha died out. In early 1826, the tiny Saxon duchies in the Thuringian hills at the heart of Europe were re-arranged. Among them emerged Saxe-Coburg-Gotha which was later associated with the British royal family. This tiny state existed on the northern border of Bavaria, between Bavaria and Saxe-Meiningen. It lay east of Frankfurt and north of Nuremberg. To my knowledge, the British-ruled Kingdom of Hannover never extended south of a point east of Kassel, about 60 miles north of Coburg. From http://www.eurohistory.com/ernst.html : The duchy of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha was formed by the joining of two separate, neighboring, principalities, [Saxe and Gotha]. The principality of Coburg had previously been inherited by members of the Saxe-Altenburg family in the XVIIth century. The principality of Gotha came under the family's control after the death of the last reigning duke [in 1825]. His only daughter, Prince Louise of Saxe-Gotha, was the wife of Duke Ernst I of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld. In exchange for Gotha, a much more desirable principality, Duke Ernst gave away the duchy of Saalfeld. From that date on, the family was known by the name of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. Norm ----- Original Message ----- From: Kay Wilson To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 11:28 PM Subject: RE: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg and/or Hanover I am trying to understand whether Saxe-Coburg and Hannover could have referred to the same place. I have studied numerous historical maps and have not found any proof that this could be the case, but it is often difficult to compare maps that are of different scales and do not show the same landmarks. Below is the documentation I have found regarding the origins of my LANGE/LONG family. Based on this information , is it likely this family came from the Coburg area? 1844 Passenger & Immigration Lists: - Port of Departure: Bremen - Country of Origin: Deutschland 1847 Church records: - Heinrich LANGE of Hannover, born 1803 - Christina nee BRUNS of Hannover - Married in Germany 1829 1850 US Census: - Henry Long (son) Birthplace: Germany 1860 US Census: - Henry Long (son) Birthplace: Saxe Coburg 1870 US Census: - Henry Long (son) Birthplace: Germany 1880 US Census: - Henry Long (son) Birthplace: Hanover - Father's birthplace: Hanover - Mother's birthplace: Hanover 1900 US Census: - Birthplace: Germany - Father's birthplace: Germany - Mother's birthplace: Germany Kay [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: Michael Rauck [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 5:03 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg Kay, I would say yes, but I'd recommend you to make also use of the know how of the Thuringen list members of [email protected] (mostly Enlish) [email protected] (mostly German) Michael -----Original Message----- From: Kay Wilson [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 10:25 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg Is this the correct list for discussing Saxe-Coburg? Kay [email protected] ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== Sister or Brother, Can you spare $10 dollars to support Rootsweb? http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html#personal ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html to unsubscribe ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html to unsubscribe

Kay (not Kathy) :-), The census takers wrote whatever the head of household told them. The census records of Henry Lange/Long apparently changed multiple times: 1850-Germany, 1860-Saxe-Coburg, 1870-Germany, 1880-Hanover, 1900-Germany. By the way, there was no country named "Germany" before 1871, only weak alliances of Germanic nations. So we must "read his mind" to know why he or someone gave those answers or which was correct. Obviously you or I cannot do that. We can only speculate. How is this for speculation? Henry Lange/Long was born about 1837 in Hanover, where his parents had married in 1829. (Church records are generally more accurate than census records.) The family may have moved briefly to Saxe-Coburg before emigrating from there in 1844, or they may have joined an emigrating group of friends/relatives from Saxe-Coburg on their way to Bremen. His father died the following year (1845), so perhaps they lived together with another family after that and the head of that household told the 1850 census taker "Germany". His mother died about 1855, so perhaps close families from Saxe-Coburg helped raise him. Thus the 1860 census answer of "Saxe-Coburg" by the head-of-household. By the 1870 census, he was 33; in his confusion, the generic "Germany" seemed a safe answer. By 1880 he recognized and declared his true birth place. By 1900, all former German nations were referred to with the generic "Germany". What do you think? Would anybody else care to speculate? Norm ----- Original Message ----- From: Kay Wilson To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 2:25 AM Subject: RE: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg and/or Hanover Norm, Thank you for your response. This confirms what I have found in my studies. So the next question is, what might account for the Hanover/Saxe-Coburg discrepancy? Some related information: - Henry Lange/Long was 23 years old in 1860 when the census lists his place of birth as Saxe Coberg. He was only 8 when the family came to the US from Germany. I suppose an 8 year old might have been confused about his birthplace. His father died in 1845, and his mother died in ~1855. - The 1860 census in the same county lists several other persons whose members were born in Saxe-Coburg. I need to revisit that census and see who they were. - The obituaries of three of the Lange/Long brothers all state that each was born in Hanover. Kay (not Kathy :) [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: Norm B [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 11:11 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg and/or Hanover Kathy, In 1825, the ruling line of Saxe-Gotha died out. In early 1826, the tiny Saxon duchies in the Thuringian hills at the heart of Europe were re-arranged. Among them emerged Saxe-Coburg-Gotha which was later associated with the British royal family. This tiny state existed on the northern border of Bavaria, between Bavaria and Saxe-Meiningen. It lay east of Frankfurt and north of Nuremberg. To my knowledge, the British-ruled Kingdom of Hannover never extended south of a point east of Kassel, about 60 miles north of Coburg. From http://www.eurohistory.com/ernst.html : The duchy of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha was formed by the joining of two separate, neighboring, principalities, [Saxe and Gotha]. The principality of Coburg had previously been inherited by members of the Saxe-Altenburg family in the XVIIth century. The principality of Gotha came under the family's control after the death of the last reigning duke [in 1825]. His only daughter, Prince Louise of Saxe-Gotha, was the wife of Duke Ernst I of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld. In exchange for Gotha, a much more desirable principality, Duke Ernst gave away the duchy of Saalfeld. From that date on, the family was known by the name of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. Norm ----- Original Message ----- From: Kay Wilson To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 11:28 PM Subject: RE: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg and/or Hanover I am trying to understand whether Saxe-Coburg and Hannover could have referred to the same place. I have studied numerous historical maps and have not found any proof that this could be the case, but it is often difficult to compare maps that are of different scales and do not show the same landmarks. Below is the documentation I have found regarding the origins of my LANGE/LONG family. Based on this information , is it likely this family came from the Coburg area? 1844 Passenger & Immigration Lists: - Port of Departure: Bremen - Country of Origin: Deutschland 1847 Church records: - Heinrich LANGE of Hannover, born 1803 - Christina nee BRUNS of Hannover - Married in Germany 1829 1850 US Census: - Henry Long (son) Birthplace: Germany 1860 US Census: - Henry Long (son) Birthplace: Saxe Coburg 1870 US Census: - Henry Long (son) Birthplace: Germany 1880 US Census: - Henry Long (son) Birthplace: Hanover - Father's birthplace: Hanover - Mother's birthplace: Hanover 1900 US Census: - Birthplace: Germany - Father's birthplace: Germany - Mother's birthplace: Germany Kay [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: Michael Rauck [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 5:03 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg Kay, I would say yes, but I'd recommend you to make also use of the know how of the Thuringen list members of [email protected] (mostly Enlish) [email protected] (mostly German) Michael -----Original Message----- From: Kay Wilson [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 10:25 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg Is this the correct list for discussing Saxe-Coburg? Kay [email protected] ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== Sister or Brother, Can you spare $10 dollars to support Rootsweb? http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html#personal ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html to unsubscribe ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html to unsubscribe ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== Sister or Brother, Can you spare $10 dollars to support Rootsweb? http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html#personal