Sorry! That was me.... Wish I had "held my tongue", something which I am normally able to do in these types of situations, and something I DEFINITELY will practice in the future! I do apologize to Stefan for my flippancy. Joanne

Thank you for such wonderful information! I am e-mailing some of my contacts and asking them if possibly this might help me in my search for ancestors. I am researching ROTHEMUND, FRIESL, KIRCHNER, KOLB, and GUNKEL for now. Rudy > At 10:48 16.12.99 -0800, you wrote: > ------------------------- > > Hi, > > > > Many (maybe even many, many) months ago I came across > > a reference to a resource that was roughly translated > > into "family books". I understand that these are > > available at many archives, and essentially are > > pedigrees of given families, often going back > > centuries. I believe that they were produced by parish > > priests. > > > > What I need to know is the actualy German name for > > these resources. So, if anyone out there knows what I > > am talking about, and knows the correct name, would > > you please email same to me, directly, at > > franalm@yahoo.com > > Could be the "Ortssippenbücher". They were often compiled by priests. > However, I never saw one and know only roughly what they are. As far as I > understand, they contain basically the same info like the "normal" church > books, but the info in this "Ortssippenbücher" is sorted by family. > > If anybody had better info: pls. correct me. > Hope that helps a bit > Stefan > > ______________________________ slider@valkyrie.net ICQ UIN: 16940151 AOL IM: rrothemund HOMEPAGE: http://www.valkyrie.net/~slider

Stefan, No one can shove the listowner aside and steal the list. This list is fast approaching 5 years old mark. Never a dictated list. Information and queries over the years posted on this list had NEVER been constant. If you want to know exact where is where, what is what, who is who, how is how pertaining to Bavaria - just go to http://www.rootsweb.com/~deubay/ No more discussion of the FAQs and flames are NOT tolerated on the list. W. David Samuelsen, listowner

Here is the best I could do. Both towns are part of the city of Auerbach. Weidlwang is famous for the Kanonierfelsen. You can find a photo of that at the bottom of the Auerbach site. http://www.auerbach.de/internet/frames.htm Nasnitz is mentioned on the link for Stadtgeschichte. There is an English translation button to that at the bottom of the stadt.... page. Hope this helps. I could find no photos of the villages themselves. You can also get translations of whole pages by going to Altavista and clicking on the babelfish translator. Mary Ann > Want to add photos of Nasnitz, Weidlwang > to my family history book. My Grandfather MAUL was born > in Nasnitz (South of Bayreuth) and my Grandmother > WITTMANN in Weidlwang near Nasnitz. > Anytime period. > All help appreciated > > > ed_maul@prodigy.net > Biographies of my family in the American Revoluntionary War > and World War 2. > > http//members.tripod.com/~Silvie/Maul.html > http://members.tripod.com/Silvie/Schilling.html > > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Going on Vacation? Longer than 5 days? Please unsubscribe > Just click this and send it. It is all set up for you. > mailto:Bavaria-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe > --- Mary Ann Allen wallen@pipeline.com The Gathering Place http://sites.netscape.net/murrallen/homepage

Unsubscribe - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------ "There are . . . others who, in their exaltation of themselves, force themselves to find calumnies against our words. They produce argumentative investigations, they track down petty phrases, they are mad about trivialities, they are 'wranglers and thimble-riggers'. . . . The damnable sophists are proud of their skill; they twitter in their subtleties; they labor throughout their lives over distinctions between words and the appropriate combination and grouping of expressions; they are shown to be more continuous in their cooing than turtledoves. They tickle and titillate the ears of those who are eager to be titilated, effeminately, in my view -- a literal torrent of words and a drop of sense. They are like old shoes. The rest of them has weakened or admits water; only the tongue remains. . . . These people . . . stretch the warp without weaving anything" (Clement of Alexandria, Strometeis 1.3.22 ff.).

Want to add photos of Nasnitz, Weidlwang to my family history book. My Grandfather MAUL was born in Nasnitz (South of Bayreuth) and my Grandmother WITTMANN in Weidlwang near Nasnitz. Anytime period. All help appreciated ed_maul@prodigy.net Biographies of my family in the American Revoluntionary War and World War 2. http//members.tripod.com/~Silvie/Maul.html http://members.tripod.com/Silvie/Schilling.html

Thanks a lot, Marcella! Your name shall go into the Halls of Fame of the Bavarian Genealogy :-)) A possible sample: http://www2.genealogy.net/gene/faqs/sgg.html probably much too big for a beginner and too extensive for everyday work.... A downsized, special Bavarian version would surely do... Suggestion for the first step: Can everybody on the list send her the URLs of the various maps, location finders etc.? here, what I find quickly on my "treasure board": http://users.rootsweb.com/~deuhes/Hessen/towns.htm (in English) http://www.genealogy.net/cg/govlinks.htm (in German) both are lists with many sites of maps etc. The Hessen site would need some adjustment for the Bavarian content in the next phase.... Maps: http://www.erzbistum-muenchen.de/suchmaschine/landkarte.asp?searchp a nice searchable map of arch diocese Munich-Freising (in German) to find addresses of parish administrations. There was somewhere another one for diocese Eichstätt. I'll mail it, when I find it again.... So far for the beginning once more: Thanks, Marcella! Stefan > Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 05:32:24 -0600 > To: Stefan Probst <stefan.probst@opticom.v-nam.net> > From: Marcella Dawson <dawsonm@girltech.cs.rice.edu> > Subject: Re: [BAVARIA] Proposal: FAQs > > Thank you for posting this suggestion. Such a page is long overdue. I will > start work on a prototype of the page, no bells and whistles, put it on my > server, and possibly you will be able to review it and let me know what > needs to be put on the page. > Marcella Dawson > Marcella Dawson > dawsonm@hal-pc.org > > http://www.crpc.rice.edu/CRPC/GT/dawsonm/webindex.htm >

I aggree with Stefan's suggestion and volunteer to create the web page but would appreciate a list of content that the members on this list would like to see. I can put the page on my server or can email it to the webmaster. Marcella Marcella Dawson dawsonm@hal-pc.org http://www.crpc.rice.edu/CRPC/GT/dawsonm/webindex.htm

At 01:33 17.12.99 -0500, Susan wrote: ------------------------- > Flame on!!! Okay I always thought that the people who come on the list new > will post their queries.. Well, the first what I do when I am new to a list, I will look whether there is an archive to look for old posts. Whether they have some kind of "policy" and background info, or a FAQ, etc. This costs me a bit of time, but after that I feel more confident. > As you grow with the list and learn then at a > point where you feel you are knowledgeable to help someone else you should!! You can help from day one, if there comes a post along about a location / surname what you are working on. > The point I am trying to make is "everyone" is new once, I know this, therefore I included myself. > we need to extend > to them the courtesy that was extended to us when WE were new.. No objection at all. I only think it is much more helpful - and if you like also more courteous - to them to give them a whole "how-to guide", instead of giving them a little piece of info and they have to ask the very next moment again, because they don't know where to find it. It is "Not to give a fish, but to teach how to fish". I think it would be more corteous to give them immediately the whole "secret knowledge" instead of arrogantly telling them: "My friend wait for a while, read all the postings for several months and then you will also get all the links and infos that I have already". > It would > certainly be a very boring list if all our questions were answered in a neat > little package when we signed on.. It would be a FAQ, not a AAQ (All Asked Questions). So you need all the questions of the new-comers, that could be easily answered by themselves (in which case they also would get more self-confidence), just to prevent that the list is getting "boring"?? > I am sure there would be questions above > and beyond the FAQ and when you get bored with those what next?? There are lots and lots of questions that will always be above and beyond a FAQ. This are the questions what need real co-operation and make a list interesting, even for only lurkers. > You my friend should be on the ship list?? Sailed already. > Unfortunately, alot of us don't have > the time or experience to put together such a site or package. Susan Everybody who is lurking here for a couple of months should have all the necessary infos. I think such a FAQ would not only be good for newcomers. I know something like that from other lists where it is very appreciated and is very helpful especially also for old-timers. Therefore I suggested to post it monthly also to the list. By this everybody can profit and be updated about everybody's old and newly discovered links. When I needed a link "there was something some months ago.....", I just opened the last posted FAQ and had all the links and info neatly together. A real help. Yes, frankly, I am a bit bored about some of the QUESTIONS, not about the PEOPLE!! I am more sorry for them. I remember my first time here. Hell, had I been happy, if somebody had given me something with all the links to the maps, location finders, addresses etc. and said: "Try this here, and if you have any problems, come back and I will be happy to help you!" And now to all the newcomers who read my rumblings: Pls. don't get afraid because of all this, but do continue to ask whatever you want to know! If anything comes along what covers my "areas" (Stadtsteinach, Dinkelsbühl...Ansbach), I will take my time and be glad to help you, if I somehow can. And pls. accept my sincere apologies that I don't have the time to put everything together, what could help you a lot in the beginning and give you an easy "quick-start". I still do hope, that somebody else does it. Stefan > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stefan Probst" <stefan.probst@opticom.v-nam.net> > To: <BAVARIA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, December 17, 1999 1:02 AM > Subject: [BAVARIA] Proposal: FAQs > > > > Hi Folks, > > > > prepare to flame at me ;-)) > > > > there are always those newcomers (being myself one of them a couple of > > months ago), with always the same questions: > > - where do I find the hamlet of xxx? > > - where can I find info? > > - where is the archive (addresses) for xxx? > > - is this place Palatine or Bavaria? > > - (and a few more) > > > > Some of the "old" ones here again and again do the lookup in shtetlseeker, > > geoserv etc. > > > > I intended to compile a "FAQs about Bavarian Genealogy", but simply don't > > have the time for it. What it should include are links to > > - maps and related databases (like geoserv) > > - archive addresses (possibly with info about their regulations and fees) > > - URLs of the Genealogical Associations in Bavaria > > - URLs of Bavarian History sites. > > - other related mailing lists (e.g. Franken) > > Does somebody have time to start such a document? > > > > I assume that once the first draft is compiled and published, the other > > members of the list would contribute their URLs ("Know Where") to be > > included.... > > > > The actual version of this "FAQs" could be mailed to the whole list once > > per month and it should be hosted somewhere on a website. In the "greeting > > message" to new subscribers they could be informed about that site. > > Instead of getting a single nail hammered by somebody on the list, > > they would get a full toolbox to do whatever they want. > > > > I thought, instead of continuing to "intend somewhen later", it is better > > to bring the proposal to the list, so somebody else might pick it up. > > > > Volunteers? > > > > Merry Christmas, > > Stefan > > > > ______________________________________________ > > Stefan Probst stefan@v-nam.net > > Hanoi, Vietnam http://www.all.ourfamily.com > > > > > >

At 10:48 16.12.99 -0800, you wrote: ------------------------- > Hi, > > Many (maybe even many, many) months ago I came across > a reference to a resource that was roughly translated > into "family books". I understand that these are > available at many archives, and essentially are > pedigrees of given families, often going back > centuries. I believe that they were produced by parish > priests. > > What I need to know is the actualy German name for > these resources. So, if anyone out there knows what I > am talking about, and knows the correct name, would > you please email same to me, directly, at > franalm@yahoo.com Could be the "Ortssippenbücher". They were often compiled by priests. However, I never saw one and know only roughly what they are. As far as I understand, they contain basically the same info like the "normal" church books, but the info in this "Ortssippenbücher" is sorted by family. If anybody had better info: pls. correct me. Hope that helps a bit Stefan

Flame on!!! Okay I always thought that the people who come on the list new will post their queries.. As you grow with the list and learn then at a point where you feel you are knowledgeable to help someone else you should!! The point I am trying to make is "everyone" is new once, we need to extend to them the courtesy that was extended to us when WE were new.. It would certainly be a very boring list if all our questions were answered in a neat little package when we signed on.. I am sure there would be questions above and beyond the FAQ and when you get bored with those what next?? You my friend should be on the ship list?? Unfortunately, alot of us don't have the time or experience to put together such a site or package. Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Probst" <stefan.probst@opticom.v-nam.net> To: <BAVARIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, December 17, 1999 1:02 AM Subject: [BAVARIA] Proposal: FAQs > Hi Folks, > > prepare to flame at me ;-)) > > there are always those newcomers (being myself one of them a couple of > months ago), with always the same questions: > - where do I find the hamlet of xxx? > - where can I find info? > - where is the archive (addresses) for xxx? > - is this place Palatine or Bavaria? > - (and a few more) > > Some of the "old" ones here again and again do the lookup in shtetlseeker, > geoserv etc. > > I intended to compile a "FAQs about Bavarian Genealogy", but simply don't > have the time for it. What it should include are links to > - maps and related databases (like geoserv) > - archive addresses (possibly with info about their regulations and fees) > - URLs of the Genealogical Associations in Bavaria > - URLs of Bavarian History sites. > - other related mailing lists (e.g. Franken) > Does somebody have time to start such a document? > > I assume that once the first draft is compiled and published, the other > members of the list would contribute their URLs ("Know Where") to be > included.... > > The actual version of this "FAQs" could be mailed to the whole list once > per month and it should be hosted somewhere on a website. In the "greeting > message" to new subscribers they could be informed about that site. Instead > of getting a single nail hammered by somebody on the list, they would get a > full toolbox to do whatever they want. > > I thought, instead of continuing to "intend somewhen later", it is better > to bring the proposal to the list, so somebody else might pick it up. > > Volunteers? > > Merry Christmas, > Stefan > > ______________________________________________ > Stefan Probst stefan@v-nam.net > Hanoi, Vietnam http://www.all.ourfamily.com > > > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Sister or Brother, > Can you spare $10 dollars to support Rootsweb? > http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html#personal > >

Hi Folks, prepare to flame at me ;-)) there are always those newcomers (being myself one of them a couple of months ago), with always the same questions: - where do I find the hamlet of xxx? - where can I find info? - where is the archive (addresses) for xxx? - is this place Palatine or Bavaria? - (and a few more) Some of the "old" ones here again and again do the lookup in shtetlseeker, geoserv etc. I intended to compile a "FAQs about Bavarian Genealogy", but simply don't have the time for it. What it should include are links to - maps and related databases (like geoserv) - archive addresses (possibly with info about their regulations and fees) - URLs of the Genealogical Associations in Bavaria - URLs of Bavarian History sites. - other related mailing lists (e.g. Franken) Does somebody have time to start such a document? I assume that once the first draft is compiled and published, the other members of the list would contribute their URLs ("Know Where") to be included.... The actual version of this "FAQs" could be mailed to the whole list once per month and it should be hosted somewhere on a website. In the "greeting message" to new subscribers they could be informed about that site. Instead of getting a single nail hammered by somebody on the list, they would get a full toolbox to do whatever they want. I thought, instead of continuing to "intend somewhen later", it is better to bring the proposal to the list, so somebody else might pick it up. Volunteers? Merry Christmas, Stefan ______________________________________________ Stefan Probst stefan@v-nam.net Hanoi, Vietnam http://www.all.ourfamily.com

Born 1813 in Canton Aargau Switzerland, Eva Joorjin born 1814 to 1817 Ashaffenburg, Bavaria; married 11/13/1845 in Richmond, Virginia. Michael's father's name was Jacob. Can anyone help with this? Donald Tungate tungate1@gte.net

I also have an ancestor, John Nagengast, who came to Pennsylvania in 1870. I have both his Declaration of Intent and his record when he became a citizen. Neither says where he came from other than just Germany. The only way I know he came from Bavaria is that a relative that came about the same time said Bavaria on his. I have the naturalization records for three men and only one even said Bavaria. The records are in the County Courthouse, Prothonotary's Office. There is no waiting period for immigrants to apply for Declaration of Intent to become a US citizen. Before becoming naturalized they must reside in the United States for 5 years, and be a resident of Pennsylvania for at least 1 or those 5 years. I found my ancentors records records in the Crawford Co. Courthouse because that is where they lived for the first 10 years after they came over. Only the men were naturalized then. The wife and children became citizens when the husband and father was naturalized. If by chance you don't know for sure which county they were in when they first came over, you could make an educated guess and try where you think they most likely were. You could also check out the Pa. county site and maybe hire someone to go to the court house and check it out for you. Hope this helps, but even if you get the naturalization records, you may not know anything more. Helen Williams

According to my German/English dictionary as Krippe is a crib, manger; day nursery (for infants up to 3 years of age) Hope this is of some help. Mary Lou, TX ----- Original Message ----- From: <JOPARMLEY@aol.com> To: <BAVARIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 5:37 PM Subject: [BAVARIA] What is a Bavarian Krippe? > Hi all, > > Having known little about my Bavarian roots until recently, I am wondering, > what is a Bavarian Krippe? Some type of ornamental/religious decoration for > Christmas? > > I really should have known I was Bavarian all along, considering my fondness > for Bavarian cream filling........:-) > > Thanks to anyone who can shed some light on this for me, > Joanne > > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Sister or Brother, > Can you spare $10 dollars to support Rootsweb? > http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html#personal > >

SCORE: Susan- 1 Stefan- 0 :-)

questions: many of my ancestors have the same name or similar names (elisabetha, catherina, johannes, david, hienrich, etc. keep coming up), and i'm having trouble putting together who is whom and who is related to whom. I have traced most to some part of Pfalz, Bayern, (as well as Preussen), and am wondering what exactly Pfalz is (county? province, etc.), and are all the other names before it towns? also, i have done the IGI searches, and I have 53 records, and now its time to go farther, but where do i start? Parish records? is there a way to get them in english? I live in Paris, France, so its possible for me to get to Germany, but is it the best idea, or do i wait till i know more? i've also discovered a lot of my relatives out of Sweden and Finland (as well as the States). Was there some historical thing that would bring them to these places, because my friend who has been in Germany said they (at least Finland and Germany) are quite far from each other (I have many strengths but geography, even with a map in front of me, is not one of them, which doesn't make genealogy easy!!) also, there is a famous writer of I believe either the 4th century AD or the 13th century AD named AVENIUS (I think it was the 4th). since my last name is not a usual one, what is the likelihood that this ancient writer (who wrote about GALIZA, and the MiLENISIANS, and much more) is a relative of mine? is there a way to find this out? now the rest: I'm looking for more information on the AVENIUS family, mostly out of Pfalz, Bayern and Rheinland, Preussen. The earliest I have is the christening of JOHANN DAVID AVENIUS on 3 Jul 1770 in Hochspeyer, Pfalz, Bayern, to SEBASTIAN AVENIUS and MARIA ELISABETHA. My main interest is in AVENIUS but some of the relative names (marriages) are (not in order) I have are: *FREDE (Anna Maria), *MACK (barbara elisabetha who married Heinrich AVENIUS 29 Mar 1832 in Hochspeyer, Pfalz, Bayern), UNK?, Barbara (could this be Barbara Mack?) *MILLERN (Luise), *HERING, JOHANNES (married CATHERINA MAGDALENE AVENIUS 28 Apr 1811 in Evangelisch, Sippersfeld, Pfalz, Bayern), *BRETZ, FRANZ (married ELISABETHA AVENIUS 13 Oct 1864 in Evangelische, Albisheim, Pfalz, Bayern) *MEULLER (Louise) *PACK, JOHANNES HENRICUS, who married MARIA ELISABETHA AVENIUS on 23 Nov 1798 in Evangelisch, Odenspiel, Rheinland, Preussen. *SCHEUER, Marie *BENDER(IN), Elisabethe, who married (JOHANNES) DAVID AVENIUS 20 FEb 1798 in Hochspeyer, Pfalz, Bayern *ENGLESKIRCHER, Gertruada who married Theobald AVENIUS 31 Dec 1828 in Hochspeyer, Pfalz, Bayern. *KOLBIN, Anna Gertraud, (married to ADAM AVENIUS) *WEBER, Catherina (also known as Marie Catherine), married to Peter AVENIUS (Pierre Henry) 21 Sep 1805 in Civil, Alsenborn, Pfalz, Bayern *PIROT (also shown as PIROIN) , Sussanna Margaretha, married to Lorenz AVENIUS *SCHAEFER, Joannem Friedericum, married to Elizabetham Margaretham AVENIUS 30 Mar 1837 in Katholisch, Enkenbach, Pfalz, Bayern Thanks, DARA AVENIUS

Hello, A Bavarian Krippe is a manger scene that is not just limited to the stable and the baby Jesus, etc.. When I was a child my father put up a Bavarian Krippe every year. Here is how he did it. He would build a waist-high platform along one wall of the living room and even sometimes around a corner. On top of the platform he would take old hunks of slag (residue from factory furnaces, I guess) and built mountains with them. He left flat places for meadows and in the center he would put the stable so that it was surrounded by the mountains. Then he would wind Christmas lights around the entire thing. Lights peeping out from caves in the mountains and so on. About a week earlier, he would go out in the woods somewhere and gather beautiful moss in several boxes. I helped him with that. He took the moss and worked it into the crevasses made by the slag and then covered the flat places with more moss so that it looked like mountains and meadows. Just beautiful! Then he took his old figures of people, farm animals, wild animals and the soap carvings that he had made himself - of castles, fairy tale characters, etc. and set them around in the appropriate places in the Krippe. He took his nativity set of soap-carved figures and placed them in the stable and hung the swinging angel from the ceiling with thread and a cut rubber band so it would bounce a little. On the lower part of the Krippe, he would have another shelf-like area - the outside of which he covered with cardboard and painted. He cut holes through the cardboard and made it look like a train tunnel. Then he set up the old Lionel train to travel around the lower shelf (most of which one couldn't see) and go in and out of the tunnel. He had a watchman that came out of his metal house everytime the train crossed a certain part of the track. Of course, this was more for the children. The main part of the Krippe was the mountains, meadows and stable. All the neighborhood children were invited to come to see the Krippe during the holidays. After they grew up, these children often reminded me of my Dad's Krippe. This was my Dad's version of a Bavarian Krippe. I would guess that any person building one would have their own way of decorating it. I build one every year too but mine is not as large as my father's was. But I have the moss and the train (mine is a mini that runs on a track through my mountains). The old soap carvings have disintegrated and I have my own figures to put into the meadows and mountains I build. My grandchildren help me by populating the meadows with my figures (that is their domain!). It's a wonderful tradition. It takes time and effort but is worth it. Kind regards, Mary Ann > Hi all, > > Having known little about my Bavarian roots until recently, I am wondering, > what is a Bavarian Krippe? Some type of ornamental/religious decoration for > Christmas? > > I really should have known I was Bavarian all along, considering my fondness > for Bavarian cream filling........:-) > > Thanks to anyone who can shed some light on this for me, > Joanne > > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Sister or Brother, > Can you spare $10 dollars to support Rootsweb? > http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html#personal > --- Mary Ann Allen wallen@pipeline.com The Gathering Place http://sites.netscape.net/murrallen/homepage

I have a copy of the naturalization certificate of one family member and it shows nothing helpful. You need to find a copy of their letter of intent. That is the document with lots of info. But remember they may file a letter of intent one place and get their naturalization certificate in a different state. Dear Fellow Listers, I have found that different naturalization records contain different information, some more helpful than others. However I, personally, have found at least something of interest in each of them that I've been able to locate, even if it is just to confirm information I already have. Especially if you aren't sure about information you have on an individual, this is about as close as you could get to getting it right from the horse's mouth, so to speak. The information on these documents you know is coming right from the individual being researched and is reliable, unlike the census records sometimes are. Good Luck and Happy Hunting! Regards, Tanya in Austin, TX

Hello from Australia, I have just joined your list having discovered that our ancestors where from Hachenbach, Bavaria. I don't know if I am on the correct list so I hope someone will tell me if I have it wrong. I haven't been able to find Hachenbach in modern atlases or on the internet so have no idea where it was, how big it was or anything about it but I will be going to our small town library today on a fact finding mission. Does anyone else on the list have an interest in this area? Our ancestor's were George and Catherine WOLL (nee GEIG) who went to Derby, England with their baby daughter, Catherine in 1867/68. (The name later became WOOL). Many thanks Mary <marybob@ansonic.com.au> Victoria Australia Researching: Kent: ASHDOWN,BURR,DALE,NIGHTINGALE,SKINNER,FORDHAM - KFHS #7217 Sussex: DALE,LUCK,GILL,GOODSELL,WHEATLAND Surrey: ASHDOWN,FORDHAM,HAMMOND,LOMAS,EMERY,EDWARDS London: ROGERS,WOOL,EDWARDS Warwickshire: ROGERS,WOOL,FREEMAN,HOLLINS,ELLIOT,ELKINGTON,TAYLOR Northants: ELKINGTON,HARRIS Norfolk: DAWSON,NORTON