Forwarded -------- Original Message -------- Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 23:03:48 -0800 (PST) From: Stefan Probst <stefan.probst@opticom.v-nam.net> > ~~~~~~ > Marcella Dawson reports > My ancestors from Bavaria took leftover Pfannkuchen(pancakes), > cut them into slices and served them in soup at lunch. In my area ("Unterallgäu" - in Regierungsbezirk Schwaben) we call this soup "Flädlesupp' " (it tastes marvellous! - actually you pour the hot broth over the slices with some spices - if the slices are too long in the liquid they get mashy and don't tast that good anymore). The name indicates Suebian origin, but could also be from Allgäu (mountains). Try it! Stefan

Forwarded -------- Original Message -------- Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 20:07:01 -0800 (PST) From: Stefan Probst <stefan.probst@opticom.v-nam.net> Hi all, "Krippe", especially "Futterkrippe" is the manger where food for animals is placed, and in what Jesus is supposed to have been laid after his birth. "Krippen / Futterkrippen" are still used in Bavarian Forests to feed roe deer in winter, when snow makes it difficult for them to find sufficient other food. The word "Krippe" is furthermore used in "Krippenspiel", i.e. Nativity Plays, and as the name ("pars pro totum") of the kind of modelled scene as Mary Ann Allen described it in the other posting. Such "Krippen" are not only in families, but are also placed in most churches during the Christmas time. The most important things in a Bavarian "Krippe" are the figures. There is always the Jesus-Child, lying in a manger ("Krippe") together with his parents Mary and Joseph. Next to them there is usually one ox and one donkey ("to warm them"). Furthermore there are usually some shepards and sheep, "in the fields". At Epiphany one would usually add the three "Kings", one of them is usually of black skin. They may also come with camels etc. Mostly there is some kind of housing. The described "cave style" is one option, but more often it is some kind of miniature stable. The angels, moss, candles are also typical. Definitely not typical (I would say even a sacrileg ;-) ) is an electric train!!! The customs of the Krippe goes back - as far as I remember ;-) - to Francis of Assisi. You can buy the figures for the Krippe (and housings) also ready made in shops in Bavaria. The small town of Oberammergau is famous for their carvings. You may even be able to "expand" your collection (and by this the size of the arrangement) from year to year by buying additional figures (shepards, sheep, sheep dog, angels, ...) Since Christmas time is a time of visiting others, you would always talk/admire/comment about the host's Christmas tree (did you know that there are different styles of them?) and their "Krippe". I guess you should be able to find several pictures of "Krippen" in the internet. Maybe you can already order them online ?? :-)) Rgds. Stefan

Forwarded -------- Original Message -------- Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 11:22:57 -0800 (PST) From: Helen Parsonage <hparsonage@ibm.net> >From: Firelook2@aol.com > >Hello, > > I was wondering if either Massenbach or Wollstein are towns in > Bavaria? I was told they were in this area, but couldn't find a > map with them on it. My family are from these 2 towns. > Thanks so much for the help! > ....Marcy > Bandon, Oregon USA Try these: Massenbach, Kreis Weissenburg. Just West of Ellingen, Northwest of Weissenburg Massenbach, Kreis Gemunden, Southwest of Gemunden No Wollstein found in Bavaria : - ( Hope this helps, Helen BTW there is at least one Massenbach in Württemberg too.

Forwarded. Reply to the person below. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Waldmann Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 17:53:30 -0800 (PST) From: Dhwaldmann@aol.com Hi, Looking for others who may have information about Waldman/n family. I descend from Andreas born 1824 and his wife Friedericka... thanks... & enjoy your holiday celebrating.... Dave Dhwaldmann@aol.com

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Nicol's webpage Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 09:52:24 -0800 (PST) From: Nicolgw@aol.com To: BAVARIA-L@rootsweb.com Everyone on Rootweb lists, Please accept my sincere apologies. I was not using my entire brain when I sent my posting. I should have known better and included the text of the address for the webpage! So here it is in a readable text so everyone can see-and hopefully visit. I hope that this works! <A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/nicolgw/myhomepage/heritage.html">http://hometown.aol.com/nicolgw/myhomepage/heritage.html</A> Again, my sincerest apologies. Please visit! Happy Holidays! Nicol Wieme nicolgw@aol.com

>From the Listowner - Please READ!! Delete this if you already seen it on another list you're subscriber of. The virus that is running amok is W32.NewApt.Worm and there are 4 versions of it already. They usually could come from friends or family or EVEN yourself! Do NOT click on the attahcment under any circumstances whatsoever. The attachment's names (to date that had been reported to me over last 3 days - casper.exe, pirate.exe, bboy.exe (there's 4th one but the name slipped my mind.) The message invite you to visit stuart.messagemates.com but the messages did NOT come from there. Here is Messagemates.com' announcement concerning this: Important Notice We have just learned that an email worm has been found circulating the web referencing MessageMates.com. This worm file is in no way connected with MessageMates.com. If you have received an email with a message that reads: he, your lame client cant read HTML, haha. click attachment to see some stunningly HOT stuff or http://stuart.messagemates.com/index.html Hypercool Happy Year 2000 funny programs and animations…. We attached our recent animation from this site in our mail! Check it out! then you have been passed the Worm in question. It is a worm that was created and set loose by someone who’s trying to spoil all of our Holiday fun. Do not run the attachment included in the email and please delete the email message immediately! What we know about this Worm so far: 1.Symantec has named this worm: W32.NewApt.Worm. 2.Once opened/launched the worm will email itself out and reply to messages in your mailbox. 3.The file being passed as an attachment is approximately 68K. 4.The subject line of this message will vary and may appear to bea reply to something you’ve previously sent. 5.The attachment is no way related to any MessageMates.com products. What you can do: 1. Read the details of this worm virus by checking with Symantec at: www.symantec.com 2.If you receive a suspect email with an .exe attachment from someone, first email them back and confirm that they’ve intended to send you a MessageMate. What we can tell you about MessageMates.com: 1. Our millions of loyal users are our number one priority and we are fully committed to providing software programs that are safe and fun. 2. We never send out any unsolicited emails. 3. We never send out attachments. 4. Our files are 100% safe when downloaded directly from our web site. Please know that we at MessageMates.com have worked tirelessly to earn your trust and respect. We take great pride in our products and only want our users to have a positive and entertaining experience with them. Thank you for taking the time to read this very important notice. If you have any questions or comments, please email me directly at cheitmann@adtoolsinc.com Chris Heitmann Chief Operating Officer And Symantec's Norton AntiVirus updated the filters for it as of Dec 14th. Update your anti-virus software NOW if you haven't updated anything since Dec 13th. W. David Samuelsen, Listowner

Wilhelm P. Kemendics wrote: > > I have been following the dispute about some aspects > of the list and now feel like adding my own comments : > > > If you want to know exact where is where, what is what, who is who, > > how is how pertaining to Bavaria - just go to > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~deubay/ > +I know Julia Krapfl's site. It is nice with good info. Not as complete like > +others, but I am in no position to judge it. > > I have been trying to contact Julia KRAPFL for three times and never > got any answer - which is not exactly helpful. > > ++++ > > +One of the features of this list is, that the "automatic answers" don't go > +back to the whole list, but only to the sender. By this the list doesn't > +see most of the replies that a posting gets. What I see is: There is a > +question, where I know how to find the answer, but don't have always the > +time. And if the asker would have a "FAQ", he/she could find it also by > +him/herself. To the list it looks like the question wouldn't be answered > +for a while, or not at all. > > I have been trying to help with some of the questions and also found out > that sometimes a LOT of other people alreayd gave about the same answer. > Knowing that the question has already been answered would save some of us > some work ( sometimes a lot of work ! ). > > Wilhelm from Austria > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Sister or Brother, > Can you spare $10 dollars to support Rootsweb? > http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html#personal Wilhelm: I too am a lurker. I'm new at this site and have not posted my questions since I think you get one shot and then everyone misses the post. This may not be true. I too recommend roots.com/~deubay/ perhaps that is how I got here. Sometimes we lose track of where we are on the net. I want to thank all those who answer questions and especially Stefan and Marcella. I tried her site at rice but had no luck. Stfan has got some list. ej

I am beginning to think that Alan Furchtenicht may be correct when he suggests > Are you sure your ancestors brought the recipe with them from Europe, or > did they most likely first become acquainted with (sour setback starter) buckwheat pancakes here > in America? ~~~~~~ Marcella Dawson reports My ancestors from Bavaria took leftover Pfannkuchen(pancakes), cut them into slices and served them in soup at lunch. My Hessian ancestors were horrified with this practice. But no one served buckwheats. ~~~~~~~~~~~ Patrick says ......I've never heard of Hessians or any other Germans eating buckwheat, although in my experience (my grandmother was German) they will eat about anything. But Russians and Ukrainians definitely do eat buckwheat, so maybe this is a recipe that migrated west a bit. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Deborah says ............ My ancestors from Bavaria and My Hessian ancestors had Pfannkuchen but no buckwheat............ and ...My B-W grandfather (his father was born in Wuerttemberg, don't know about his mother) put meat drippings on his apple pie! His wife had Hessian roots (her grandfather was born in Langen, grandmother from Frankfurt area) and did not serve buckwheats, either. They lived in Minnesota. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Not much of a survey, but we have asked the question for a month or so and no one has been able to say that their ancestor brought the sour setback starter buckwheat cake recipe with them. Perhaps our ancestors did stumble on to this recipe for buckwheat cakes after they arrived in the American Colonies - what do you think? RegardsHal

I for one applaud ways that would improve mine and others ability to gather information. I'm relatively new to the Bavaria List. (I am also on the Hesse and NordRein Westfalen lists, fantastic lists!), and would welcome a FAQ. I had read the listower's reply to Stephan and have to say I was quite shocked with his response. It was clear to me that Stephan conveyed his point with playfulness, i.e., the emoticons,etc. and good ideas. I love to assist people whenever I can and at the same time think that a great list can point one to information in an efficient and caring way. Linda Beck-Kuban Los Angeles Researching: Dienst: Nurnberg Bavaria, Beck: Wuerttemberg, Geiss, Gemmecke, Berthold, Borcher: Hesse, Gemmecke, Tuerffs: NordRhein Westfalen

I have been following the dispute about some aspects of the list and now feel like adding my own comments : > If you want to know exact where is where, what is what, who is who, > how is how pertaining to Bavaria - just go to > http://www.rootsweb.com/~deubay/ +I know Julia Krapfl's site. It is nice with good info. Not as complete like +others, but I am in no position to judge it. I have been trying to contact Julia KRAPFL for three times and never got any answer - which is not exactly helpful. ++++ +One of the features of this list is, that the "automatic answers" don't go +back to the whole list, but only to the sender. By this the list doesn't +see most of the replies that a posting gets. What I see is: There is a +question, where I know how to find the answer, but don't have always the +time. And if the asker would have a "FAQ", he/she could find it also by +him/herself. To the list it looks like the question wouldn't be answered +for a while, or not at all. I have been trying to help with some of the questions and also found out that sometimes a LOT of other people alreayd gave about the same answer. Knowing that the question has already been answered would save some of us some work ( sometimes a lot of work ! ). Wilhelm from Austria

Hi Mariquita, thanks for your encouragement. :=)) First we need somebody who volunteers to compile the content. I would appreciate it, if David can do it, otherwise Marcella Dawson has volunteered already. I think it could be even a small group to do it. I suggest to keep the FAQ in a simple text file, what can be viewed and/or downloaded from a site, but what can be also simply mailed. No big technical KnowHow needed for that. We have several options to upload the file on a server, preferably of course on rootsweb. The next is that everybody brings his small bits and pieces and soon we should have a good starting point, that helps everybody, as you correctly understood it. You write > I don't feel that I even have enough solid information to post > a legitimate query. Go forward, don't hesitate! Just put your names and places in a small query. You have already a combination of names and places? That is above and beyond every FAQ! Hope you find somebody with similar interest, i.e. same names and/or towns. Kind regards from Vietnam to Mexico! Stefan At 23:25 17.12.99 EST, Mariquita wrote: ------------------------- > Hi Stefan, > > I think your idea is wonderful. I really don't understand the objections to > it...... > perhaps the readers simply do not understand what you have in mind. Granted, > it is somewhat of a major undertaking but perhaps if we each contributed > something it wouldn't be such a formidable task. You could call it Bavarian > Basics and everyone > (not only the beginners) could plug into it instantly to retreive some > important information without searching through all their notes and research > files for the > correct URL. > > I am just a beginner on the Bavarian List and hardly have even begun my > search for > my SEIBERT family in Bavaria because I'm not even sure where to start. I > don't feel that I even have enough solid information to post a legitimate > query. All I have is a > name, a date and a place called Permesans (sp.) which was the last known > address. > > Hope the criticisms are not discouraging you. It IS a great idea! Perhaps > if enough people see it, someone will take the ball and carry it to the > finish line. If I knew anything about setting up a site, I'd gladly > volunteer to put it together but my computer knowledge is also at the novice > level so I can't be much help there. But I do want to congratulate you for > possessing a creative mind that comes up with solutions rather than problems. > You have the talents of a successful researcher. > Good luck in your quest! > Best regards, > Mariquita in Texas >

Hello, Try the Shtetlseeker http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm and place the name in the blank and select Germany. Hit Start search. See what possibilities you receive for each town and then click the coordinates and you will get to Mapquest with a red star will show you where the town is located. Then you can identify the star or zoom in closer. Sometimes the towns are not actually named on the map but at least the red star points out the location. Hope this helps. Mary Ann > > I was wondering if either Massenbach or Wollstein are towns in Bavaria? I > was told they were in this area, but couldn't find a map with them on it. My > family are from these 2 towns. > Thanks so much for the help! > .....Marcy > Bandon, Oregon USA > > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Going on Vacation? Longer than 5 days? Please unsubscribe > Just click this and send it. It is all set up for you. > mailto:Bavaria-L- request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe > --- Mary Ann Allen wallen@pipeline.com The Gathering Place http://sites.netscape.net/murrallen/homepage

Greetings, I am new to this list.. John Allen sailed from Bermuda to Savannah Georgia on board the Alexander Grant. Arrived in Savannah in 1839. He was born in Bavaria. May have been with Louis Smith from Bavaria. I have been unable to find any information on either man, or the ship. Just throwing it out there in case it rings a bell for anyone. Thanks! (allen2000@home.com)

At 10:43 17.12.99 -0700, David Samuelsen wrote: ------------------------- > Stefan, > > No one can shove the listowner aside and steal the list. Dear David, I frankly don't understand why you react so "irritated". I have no intention at all to "steal the list". Once some reasonable draft is compiled I wanted politely ask you whether you would think that a link to it would fit into the "welcome message" to new subscribers and whether the keeper of the FAQ may post it monthly to the list. After that I had been "in the background" like until now. I, and I assume most here in the list would appreciate it, if you yourself have the time etc. to keep such a FAQ (i.e. compile and update it). I know it from other lists that somebody can come up with a proposal for something what might be good for the list. The list owner may give his comments, or even volunteer to take over the new work, or somebody else does it. I know e.g. one list, where one of the _members_ monitors all the postings for interesting URLs and then once a month sends a table with all the URLs that were posted during the last month to the mailing list, so that everybody has them neatly together. A great service to this list. The listowner doesn't need to do everything there. Nevertheless he/she has the important task to take care that the new ideas fit to the overall issue of the list. He steers, but doesn't rule the list. > > This list is fast approaching 5 years old mark. Never a dictated list. > > Information and queries over the years posted on this list had NEVER > been constant. That's why a FAQ shouldn't be a static document, somewhere firmly placed on a WebPage, but a permanent "working draft" what is constantly updated, with the current version somewhere on the web (rootsweb?) for easy accessibility. > > If you want to know exact where is where, what is what, who is who, > how is how pertaining to Bavaria - just go to > http://www.rootsweb.com/~deubay/ I know Julia Krapfl's site. It is nice with good info. Not as complete like others, but I am in no position to judge it. However: it is from the whole design a WebPage. I was thinking about a TEXT document, what can be mailed. Two main reasons: 1. Not everybody has always easy access the the web. 2. A document what is mailed regularly to the list will get more contributions from the list members and therefore be more updated, than a page that only resides somewhere in the web. > No more discussion of the FAQs and flames are NOT tolerated on the > list. > > W. David Samuelsen, listowner Several members of the list thought that such a FAQ would be a good idea. Why do you want to stop it? I had a second thought about the "boring questions" that I complained about yesterday - also based on Mary Rogers's nice posting: One of the features of this list is, that the "automatic answers" don't go back to the whole list, but only to the sender. By this the list doesn't see most of the replies that a posting gets. What I see is: There is a question, where I know how to find the answer, but don't have always the time. And if the asker would have a "FAQ", he/she could find it also by him/herself. To the list it looks like the question wouldn't be answered for a while, or not at all. And this makes me feel not so good. What I don't see is, that the asker actually got several answers. And what I probably also forgot is, that in genealogy lists there are many members who retired already and have therefore plenty of time and who like to send mails. "Efficiency" is rather unimportant to them. So, I'll take back my remark about the "boring questions", and will just try to ignore them without bad feelings. Somebody else will hopefully answer. If they don't receive any, then they please should write a second time. Sounds sarcastic, but isn't meant this way. Really. Ah, and finally: Flaming. In Bavaria we were used to get rather quickly into a heated debate. But as quickly as we got into it, as quickly everything was forgotten again and we were good friends. I don't consider this here as serious flaming. And I have no problems with a nice score board, or being on a ship list ;-)) Have a nice weekend, everybody! Stefan

Seasons Greetings to all, I have a hyperlink here to my updated webpage. It includes a picture of Nicolas and complete list of surnames, both direct and collateral. Please visit and tell me what you think......... <A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/nicolgw/myhomepage/heritage.html">Click here: Nicol's wegpage</A> Happy Holidays! Nicol Wieme nicolgw@aol.com

Joanne, as we used to say in Bavaria: let's go and have a good beer together over that! :=)) Stefan At 20:02 17.12.99 EST, JOPARMLEY@aol.com wrote: ------------------------- > > Sorry! That was me.... Wish I had "held my tongue", something which I am > normally able to do in these types of situations, and something I DEFINITELY > will practice in the future! > > I do apologize to Stefan for my flippancy. > > Joanne

Someone wrote: <snip> SCORE: Susan- 1 Stefan- 0 ****************************************************************** I don't agree with that. I thought Stefan had a very good idea there. FAQ and the answers are a standard freature of any well-run web site and it seems to me that any Mail List could profit from this idea. Stan in CA

Hello, I was wondering if either Massenbach or Wollstein are towns in Bavaria? I was told they were in this area, but couldn't find a map with them on it. My family are from these 2 towns. Thanks so much for the help! .....Marcy Bandon, Oregon USA

Hello all, I subscribed to this list yesterday with a query you have probably all heard a thousand times before (perhaps it was my query that started the FAQ debate). Everyone who replied was so helpful and friendly, George E. Soergel wrote and gave me some very helpful advice that I have since found to be some of the most useful I have ever received from a list, another George helped with a map, located with precise instructions (wonderful insight), others freely gave help and encourgement . Yes, I probably could have received this same in formation from a FAQ, but it was so much nicer 'meeting' these people and knowing someone thoughtful and kind is sitting on the other side of my screen. I believe this is the difference between a web page (where FAQ's belong) and a mailing list. Thank you very much everyone for making me feel so welcome (despite the painfully repetitive questions). Mary <marybob@ansonic.com.au> Victoria Australia Researching: Kent: ASHDOWN,BURR,DALE,NIGHTINGALE,SKINNER,FORDHAM - KFHS #7217 Sussex: DALE,LUCK,GILL,GOODSELL,WHEATLAND Surrey: ASHDOWN,FORDHAM,HAMMOND,LOMAS,EMERY,EDWARDS London: ROGERS,WOOL,EDWARDS Warwickshire: ROGERS,WOOL,FREEMAN,HOLLINS,ELLIOT,ELKINGTON,TAYLOR Northants: ELKINGTON,HARRIS Norfolk: DAWSON,NORTON

please remove me from your mailings Bob Mullenbrock (& Trinka2)