evitom@earthlink.net writes: > I am using Outlook Express 5.0 in connection with Internet Explorer 5.0 I'm having no problems either with AOL5/IE5. That must be the problem for some. Gotta have the "right" stuff, I guess. Lita If God seems far away... Guess who moved? See some of my accomplishments! http://pages.ivillage.com/misc/pux4/index.html

Okay you guys, I already have it bookmarked and just went there again, with NO problems. Have no idea why you are all having trouble......So I'll shut up now. Joanne

I'm having the same problem getting into the site as well. Father Chuck Schwartz

Hi Marcella, Think your website is GREAT! Thanks for putting the effort into it. I'm sure many future members of the BAVARIA list will benefit from the information in innumerable ways. I have already sent the URL to a friend who hasn't started his Bavarian research yet. Joanne

Hi, just wanted to thank the many kind list members, who have all offered ideas on learning to get it translated. Many internet places to go to and books, No way I can answer all who replied, but Thank you all for being such a caring bunch of people!! Mary Widener

<widener@galstar.com> wrote: Hi, I was lucky in locating the items on microfilm, which we copied. Now how do I learn to read old 1827 German script!!! Any ideas, know the translators are for print. Have Dr. Schweitzer's book on Germany and Bavaria, shows the old script, but if I just could know a few words, then it would be simplier to learn the rest. Everyone has been so helpful along the way. Mary Widener Hi Mary, You asked, so I'll recommend the books that are helping me the most since I first 'crossed the water' to my German ancestor's records this past June! 1) If I Can You Can Decipher Germanic Records, by Edna Bentz. ISBN # 0-9615420-0-4 This is a 8 X 11 orange loose-leaf paper back, copyright 1982. My copy is from the 16th printing in 1996. My gen society sells it from their sales table. The author's address (included in the book) is: 13139 Old West Ave. San Diego, CA 92129. The book includes: a.***** a fantastic old German alphabet with for instance: gothic print 'A' and 34 (!) written variations of that gothic capital A.....followed by the print 'a' and 9 variants of the written 'a', plus an umlauted written small case 'a'. This is followed by the entire alphabet, and special sets of 'ch', 'St', 'st', 'Sch', 'sch', '�'/'ss', and 'tz.' This is so valuable when you think of how many variations of handwriting you find between people today! b. a second gothic alphabet including Danish forms. Similar in form to the first gothic alphabet. c. General information page including such things as Umlauts, capitalization, interchangeable letters, surname variations. d. *****2 pages of 'relationship' terms, in handwritten script, typed German, and English translation. e. *****2 1/2 pages of Genealogical Terminology and symbols, also in script, typed German and translation. f. Common abbreviations with German and English translation. g. Church year and Feast Days: English and German equivalents. h. Months of the year in German handwriting, German, "Old Form" and English. i. Days of the Week in Script, German, English, and Symbols (!) j. *****27 blue pages of "Germanic (script), Latin, and Danish Terminology" in those languages and English, with abbreviations and additional Danish terms added. k. 6 yellow pages of "Glossary of Illnesses found in German church records" in German, Script, English, Latin, and Danish. l. *****25 violet pages of "Occupations and Titles" with equivalents in typed-German, German Script, typed English, Latin, and Danish. This is where I discovered my g-grandfather was a cabinet maker/joiner, when I finally deciphered the first three letters of his 'Standes' (or occupation) were 'Sch'. I compared the word on my record and there it was: "Schreiner", ie: "Cabinet maker/joiner" in English; "abiectarius/lignarius" in Latin; and "snedker" in Danish!!! m. 24 yellow pages pages of a timeline from 1300 to 1920 or: "What Was Going On In the World and Community of Your Ancestor When?" and.... n. the German Gothic Print alphabet with an ABC song, and written in German Script upper and lower cases with the English Phonetic Pronunciation, too! 2. Another 8 X 11 paperback called Central European Genealogical Terminology, by Jared H. Suess. I also got this at the sales table. This one, published by The Everton Publishers, Inc. P.O. Box 368, Logan, UT 84321 is copyright 1978. a) *****It begins with a 140-page dictionary, A-Z, of genealogical terms, mainly in German, but also French, Hungarian, Italian, and Latin. b) Then it includes 2 Appendixes: Appendix 1: French: numbers, months, days of the week, and abbreviations of names. Same in German including Times of the Day (O'clock), centuries, ordinal numbers, and German symbols in genealogy, followed by the German Gothic Alphabet, lower/upper case, type and script. Same in Hungarian, with lists of male and female given names. Roman and Latin numerals. 2 charts: "Names of Months in several European Languages" and same for "Days of the Week....." Appendix 2: Former East European Areas and their Present Locations: Before 1919 and After 1945. Austria: 1978's States and capitals, and a list of old Austrian Crownlands . France: historic provinces prior to 1790, and 1978's French departments, incl. 4 overseas. German Empire political subdivisions: 1871-1918. Today's Germany: States and capitals (however, my book reflects these as of 1978!) An outline map of the German Empire of 1871-1918 Same for 1978 Germany. Hungary: Counties in 1978's Hungary and also list of Counties in Hungarian Empire prior to 1919. Outline map of Austro-Hungarian Monarchy, and Hungary of 1978. Outline map of Poland provinces after 1945. Switzerland Cantons and capitals in 1978 and outline map List of Yugoslavia's republics and capitals in 1978. Between Ms. Bentz's book, this one, and a good German-English modern dictionary, I've been pretty well supplied for at least beginning deciphering/translating! Course, I'd also recommend taking a German language course, for better translation ability. That's what I started at a local city college in September. German genealogical records REALLY give one the motivation to learn GERMAN! Best wishes to you in tackling your German records!!! Viel Gl�ck! Carolyn "Cari" McQuaid Thomas <western37@aol.com> Researching German records in Burscheid, Nordrhein-Westfalen; Lehesten, Th�ringia; Rauschensteig, Oberfranken, Bavaria; and Niederroedern, Bas-Rhin, Alsace.

Hello, My GGgrandfather Barnhard PAULUS and his fiancee Margaret NEIBERT, came over on the Ship Mississippi in 1853. I've had the copy of the ship list for quite a while, so I transcribed it! I figured, since Bernard and Margaret were from Bavaria (Nuremburg/Werzberg area), maybe it would help someone else out there with it's 335 passengers list. http://members.tripod.com/~KHuish/shipmis.htm <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~KHuish/shipmis.htm">Ship Mississippi - Bremen to Baltimore 1853</A> Thanks! Kathy Huish (AKA Firstmom) http://members.tripod.com/~KHuish/index.html <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~KHuish/">Firstmom's Genealogy Resources and Records</A>

Hallo an alle in der Gegend wesstlich von Augsburg, Einige Kilometer östlich von Violau, in der Nähe von Altenmünster in Bayern befinden sich nach meiner Karte die Einträge "Stuhlmühle" und "Stuhlbg.". Da ich unter anderem dem Namen Stuhlmiller nachgehe, ist meine Frage, ob irgend jemand weiß, was es mit diesen Orten auf sich hat. Grüße Bernhard

I have always saved these cards as if they themselves were a holy relic.. I don't know why but I can tell you when I started to do my family history I was very happy I did... I have also always saved he newspaper clipping of the obituary again I don't know why but I am glad now.. Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ceal Wutka" <ceal@wutka.com> To: <BAVARIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 10:12 AM Subject: Re: [BAVARIA] Sterbebildchen > I have a few of these cards myself from Cincinnati, Ohio. One of these cards > had a picture of my ggrandmother, Josepha Merz, and gave me her full birth > and death dates. The cards were about the size of a bookmark. I wish I had > kept more of these over the years as they contain very useful information. I > always just called them funeral cards, since they were handed out at the > funeral home. > > Ceal Merz Wutka > Atlanta > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stefan Probst" <stefan.probst@opticom.v-nam.net> > To: <BAVARIA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 0629 AM > Subject: [BAVARIA] Sterbebildchen > > > > Hello All, > > > > in Bavaria it is usual to print so-called "Sterbe-bildchen" when somebody > > has died and hand them out e.g. during the funeral. I have here copies of > > such Sterbe-bildchen from 1897 on. I don't know, when this habit started, > > and whether it would be a useful source for genealogical data. > > > > The Sterbe-bildchen are small enough that they fit into a prayer book and > > contain, besides the name and the death date, all or some of the following > > data: > > - profession > > - birthdate and place > > - maybe a photograph > > - a hint about the reason of the death (e.g. "after long illness") > > They start with something like "To pious commemoration of Ms.....", > > followed by the a.m. data and then some prayers. > > > > I checked my dictionaries here, but didn't find something suitable. > > How is / or would be something like this called in English? > > > > Regards, > > Stefan > > > > > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > > Sister or Brother, > > Can you spare $10 dollars to support Rootsweb? > > http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html#personal > > > > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Sister or Brother, > Can you spare $10 dollars to support Rootsweb? > http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html#personal > >

I forgot to mention that I first tried translating obits in German script by comparing letters to come with possible words then feeding these through a translation program, but this was a very limited help. My husband and I found that none of the 3 translation services we were using could translate some of the most basic things like "Home for the Aged." So hand translation and common sense, along with some knowledge you may already have on the person, will be your best bet. I know it sounds tedious, but we find it is fun also. Ceal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Widener" <widener@galstar.com> To: <BAVARIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 1638 PM Subject: [BAVARIA] Old German Script > Hi, I was lucky in locating the items on microfilm, which we copied. Now > how do I learn to read old 1827 German script!!! Any ideas, know the > translators are for print. Have Dr. Schweitzer's book on Germany and > Bavaria, shows the old script, but if I just could know a few words, then it > would be simplier to learn the rest. Everyone has been so helpful along the > way. Mary Widener > > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Going on Vacation? Longer than 5 days? Please unsubscribe > Just click this and send it. It is all set up for you. > mailto:Bavaria-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe >

I have a "German - English Genealogical Dictionary" by Ernest Thode that has the main genealogical terms as well as several possibilities for each letter of script. LDS also has informaiton on German script that is very useful. Then you will really need to invest in a good German-English dictionary. My husband likes the Harper Collins College Dictionary. There's more than one way to make each script character. To make matters more difficult, on our copies from microfilm of records or newspapers, small pieces of the letters may not have come through or small blots may be on the copy that make the letter look like another. I am lucky my husband studied German and he can do this more quickly because he knows better what letter it is likely to be. I am finding newspaper copies to be nightmares! Ceal Atlanta ----- Original Message ----- From: "Widener" <widener@galstar.com> To: <BAVARIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 1638 PM Subject: [BAVARIA] Old German Script > Hi, I was lucky in locating the items on microfilm, which we copied. Now > how do I learn to read old 1827 German script!!! Any ideas, know the > translators are for print. Have Dr. Schweitzer's book on Germany and > Bavaria, shows the old script, but if I just could know a few words, then it > would be simplier to learn the rest. Everyone has been so helpful along the > way. Mary Widener > > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Going on Vacation? Longer than 5 days? Please unsubscribe > Just click this and send it. It is all set up for you. > mailto:Bavaria-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe >

Mary: I'd like to recommend: "If I Can You Can Decipher Germanic Records" by Edna Bentz. My mother and I both use this book. I've seen it offered for sale at a couple of genealogical websites, but we got our copies at amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0961542004/qid=948121741/sr=1-6/002-5480620-5415434. After a couple of dozen pages of church records, it does get easier to read. :~} Kathleen Schilling kschilli@hotmail.com Researching: SCHILLING, WEIGAND, WEIHL, HOELZER, LESCHIER, DAUT, SPAETH, SOHMERS, McGUIRE, BOYLE ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

I have a few of these cards myself from Cincinnati, Ohio. One of these cards had a picture of my ggrandmother, Josepha Merz, and gave me her full birth and death dates. The cards were about the size of a bookmark. I wish I had kept more of these over the years as they contain very useful information. I always just called them funeral cards, since they were handed out at the funeral home. Ceal Merz Wutka Atlanta ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Probst" <stefan.probst@opticom.v-nam.net> To: <BAVARIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 0629 AM Subject: [BAVARIA] Sterbebildchen > Hello All, > > in Bavaria it is usual to print so-called "Sterbe-bildchen" when somebody > has died and hand them out e.g. during the funeral. I have here copies of > such Sterbe-bildchen from 1897 on. I don't know, when this habit started, > and whether it would be a useful source for genealogical data. > > The Sterbe-bildchen are small enough that they fit into a prayer book and > contain, besides the name and the death date, all or some of the following > data: > - profession > - birthdate and place > - maybe a photograph > - a hint about the reason of the death (e.g. "after long illness") > They start with something like "To pious commemoration of Ms.....", > followed by the a.m. data and then some prayers. > > I checked my dictionaries here, but didn't find something suitable. > How is / or would be something like this called in English? > > Regards, > Stefan > > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Sister or Brother, > Can you spare $10 dollars to support Rootsweb? > http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html#personal >

My mom just sent a copy of my Great, great grandfather's card. His only verified his birth and death dates. The rest was prayers. Lita If God seems far away... Guess who moved? See some of my accomplishments! http://pages.ivillage.com/misc/pux4/index.html

- ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/0.html Special researches: Freibott Family http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/1.html Limpert Family http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/4.html Index of family names: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/surnames.htm - ---------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

Looking for daughters or grandchildren of Blanka Krause. The family was in Augsburg during WWII. Daughters Rlandi and Berti. Also a neighbor ( possibly related) Josef Krause family with a daughter Maria. Thanks, Ann

Looking for "cousins" with this surname. I have found what may be my immigrant ancestor before he emigrated. His name was Hans Philip ENGHERT on the ship list. I have found a Hans Philip ENGERS being baptized in the Evangelisch Reformiente/Protestant Reformed in Alsenz, Bayern. Baptism date was 1693 which is quite plausible. Philip's parents were Heinrich ENGERS and Anna APOLLONIA. This couple had several children according to LDS. Two sons were: Philip Leopold and Hans Velten ENGERS. Do I have any cousins reading this email? Do you know of any ENGERS who may be interested in exchanging information with me? Thanks so much for your help. Gerre Engard Byrd

Hi, I was lucky in locating the items on microfilm, which we copied. Now how do I learn to read old 1827 German script!!! Any ideas, know the translators are for print. Have Dr. Schweitzer's book on Germany and Bavaria, shows the old script, but if I just could know a few words, then it would be simplier to learn the rest. Everyone has been so helpful along the way. Mary Widener

In the U.S. where I come from they are called 'Memorial Cards'. It was/is important to always make sure to receive one. They are usually placed at the 'viewing' and or may be included in a family thank you note. Nancy Stefan Probst wrote: > > Hello All, > > in Bavaria it is usual to print so-called "Sterbe-bildchen" when somebody > has died and hand them out e.g. during the funeral. I have here copies of > such Sterbe-bildchen from 1897 on. I don't know, when this habit started, > and whether it would be a useful source for genealogical data. > > The Sterbe-bildchen are small enough that they fit into a prayer book and > contain, besides the name and the death date, all or some of the following > data: > - profession > - birthdate and place > - maybe a photograph > - a hint about the reason of the death (e.g. "after long illness") > They start with something like "To pious commemoration of Ms.....", > followed by the a.m. data and then some prayers. > > I checked my dictionaries here, but didn't find something suitable. > How is / or would be something like this called in English? > > Regards, > Stefan > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Sister or Brother, > Can you spare $10 dollars to support Rootsweb? > http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html#personal

Hello Stefan, These are called prayer cards, I think and are similar to Catholic holy cards that have pictures of Jesus, Mary and Christian saints on them. I have a whole collection of German Sterbebildchen also from way back. They were meant to be placed in prayer books as you mentioned and then people could say the prayer that usually was also included on the back along with the name and dates, etc. of the person who died. Here in the USA, one can still find these cards commemorating a person's death. Often funeral homes, especially those with Catholic owners, give out generic ones for their clients. Families can also order special ones with a picture of their choice and the deceased's names and dates. Hope this helps. Mary Ann > Hello All, > > in Bavaria it is usual to print so-called "Sterbe-bildchen" when somebody > has died and hand them out e.g. during the funeral. I have here copies of > such Sterbe-bildchen from 1897 on. I don't know, when this habit started, > and whether it would be a useful source for genealogical data. > > The Sterbe-bildchen are small enough that they fit into a prayer book and > contain, besides the name and the death date, all or some of the following > data: > - profession > - birthdate and place > - maybe a photograph > - a hint about the reason of the death (e.g. "after long illness") > They start with something like "To pious commemoration of Ms.....", > followed by the a.m. data and then some prayers. > > I checked my dictionaries here, but didn't find something suitable. > How is / or would be something like this called in English? > > Regards, > Stefan --- Mary Ann Allen wallen@pipeline.com The Gathering Place http://sites.netscape.net/murrallen/homepage