Evans-Gunther, Mailing list for Switzerland SWITZERLAND-L mailto:[email protected]?subject=subscribe&body=subscri be Does "Sa." stand for Sachsen (Saxony)? The list would be SAXONY-L mailto:[email protected]?subject=subscribe&body=subscribe You might also want to ask Mr. Seelentag [email protected] about Switzerland. Sincerely, Michael -----Original Message----- From: evans-gunther [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 9:01 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [BAVARIA] Reposting GUNTHER Dear Listers, I recieved no reply from the last time I posted this message, so thought I would try again. This is the enquiry: I noticed some discussion of where folk should be looking, e.g. Saxe-Coburg. I have a possible who married in Switzerland but was German. My great grandfather Carl GUNTHER said he was born in Switzerland and his father was also Carl GUNTHER, but didn't say that his father was Swiss. SKS has pointed out a Carl Gottlob GUENTHER who got married in Baden, Aargau, Switzerland in 1828. He fits the correct time period for my great great grandfather, but he was German. Carl Gottlob GUENTHER was born in Pulsnitz, Ohorn, Sa., Germany in 1793, married Christianna W. VOLKMANN in 1823 at Strhla, Eble, Sa. and then married again in 1828 at Baden, Aargau, Switzerland (sadly wife's name not given). He died in 1849 at Heidehaeuser, Lichtensee, Sa. Can anyone telling if I can on the right List? Best wishes from Japan, Charles ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html to unsubscribe

In a message dated 2/11/2003 12:31:45 PM Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > <A HREF="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</A> Could you please share with us your information on German-Swiss migration? It would be very helpful to me. Thank you. Francine Conn Halter

Amelia, If you are looking for Augsburg, there are 11 entries for Muench in Hanno Trurnit's new database on rootsweb.com http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=patriziat . The family came from Frankfurt am Main to Augsburg. If you have any question, I am sure Hanno Trurnit [email protected] will be happy to guide you. Michael Rauck -----Original Message----- From: SmithFarms [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 7:20 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BAVARIA] location and info re: Swabia Thank you so much for the info Joanne. It gets me started in my search. All I know right now is that the surname was van/von Munch/Muench/Munig/ and that they were from Augsburg probably, if my understanding was correct. They (Cretian, Johanes and George) left there w/some other family members around 1749 headed to Bethany Georgia in the USA to start a Dunkard (German Baptist) colony. Supposedly Cretian (Christian) van Muench was an Augsburg banker. That is all I have to go on, w/the exception of them leaving on the ship - Queen of Denmark. Thanks so much, Amelia ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 12:21 AM Subject: Re: [BAVARIA] location and info re: Swabia > > Hi Amelia, > > Swabia (in English), Schwaben (in German) is one of the 7 *'Bavarian > districts*. Bavaria itself is one of many states in Germany (13-16 states? > I can't remember). > > Here's a map for you to look at: > > http://bavariangenealogy.com/bh/baystat1.html > (scroll down a little ways to see the map) > > And here's a general map of the German states so you can see where Bavaria > is: > > http://baltenhof.tripod.com/germstates.htm > > The fortunate news about Swabia is that if a person's ancestor from there was > Catholic, the Catholic church records of the Augsburg diocese were filmed by > the Latter Day Saints (LDS) and are accessible on film IN the USA (or other > countries besides Germany itself-- you can't see them in Germany, but if > you're there you can just go to the church archive instead). You can rent > them to be sent to your local FHC (Family History Center) after you look them > up in the LDS Family History Library (FHL) Catalog. This isn't true of a lot > of Catholic records from other parts of Bavaria and it has the potential to > save a person whose ancestors were from Swabia a lot of money, if they're > willing to search the old records themselves. > > If your ancestors were from Swabia and you know what town and the parish > people who lived in that town went to, if they were Catholic I can help you > look up the parish in the Catalog. If they were Protestant I can still look > it up in the Catalog, but I'm not positive it will be in there. In that > case, I can still give you the name of the correct Protestant archive to > write to in Bavaria. > > Good luck! > Joanne > > > > In a message dated 02/11/2003 11:24:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > Could someone please explain Swabia in Bavaria to me? Was it a German > > state, so to speak or was it a region w/in Bavaria? Any information would > > be deeply appreciated. > > > > TIA, > > Amelia > > > > > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Sister or Brother, > Can you spare $10 dollars to support Rootsweb? > http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html#personal > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html to unsubscribe

Thank you so much for the info Joanne. It gets me started in my search. All I know right now is that the surname was van/von Munch/Muench/Munig/ and that they were from Augsburg probably, if my understanding was correct. They (Cretian, Johanes and George) left there w/some other family members around 1749 headed to Bethany Georgia in the USA to start a Dunkard (German Baptist) colony. Supposedly Cretian (Christian) van Muench was an Augsburg banker. That is all I have to go on, w/the exception of them leaving on the ship - Queen of Denmark. Thanks so much, Amelia ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 12:21 AM Subject: Re: [BAVARIA] location and info re: Swabia > > Hi Amelia, > > Swabia (in English), Schwaben (in German) is one of the 7 *'Bavarian > districts*. Bavaria itself is one of many states in Germany (13-16 states? > I can't remember). > > Here's a map for you to look at: > > http://bavariangenealogy.com/bh/baystat1.html > (scroll down a little ways to see the map) > > And here's a general map of the German states so you can see where Bavaria > is: > > http://baltenhof.tripod.com/germstates.htm > > The fortunate news about Swabia is that if a person's ancestor from there was > Catholic, the Catholic church records of the Augsburg diocese were filmed by > the Latter Day Saints (LDS) and are accessible on film IN the USA (or other > countries besides Germany itself-- you can't see them in Germany, but if > you're there you can just go to the church archive instead). You can rent > them to be sent to your local FHC (Family History Center) after you look them > up in the LDS Family History Library (FHL) Catalog. This isn't true of a lot > of Catholic records from other parts of Bavaria and it has the potential to > save a person whose ancestors were from Swabia a lot of money, if they're > willing to search the old records themselves. > > If your ancestors were from Swabia and you know what town and the parish > people who lived in that town went to, if they were Catholic I can help you > look up the parish in the Catalog. If they were Protestant I can still look > it up in the Catalog, but I'm not positive it will be in there. In that > case, I can still give you the name of the correct Protestant archive to > write to in Bavaria. > > Good luck! > Joanne > > > > In a message dated 02/11/2003 11:24:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > Could someone please explain Swabia in Bavaria to me? Was it a German > > state, so to speak or was it a region w/in Bavaria? Any information would > > be deeply appreciated. > > > > TIA, > > Amelia > > > > > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Sister or Brother, > Can you spare $10 dollars to support Rootsweb? > http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html#personal > >

Hi Amelia, Swabia (in English), Schwaben (in German) is one of the 7 *'Bavarian districts*. Bavaria itself is one of many states in Germany (13-16 states? I can't remember). Here's a map for you to look at: http://bavariangenealogy.com/bh/baystat1.html (scroll down a little ways to see the map) And here's a general map of the German states so you can see where Bavaria is: http://baltenhof.tripod.com/germstates.htm The fortunate news about Swabia is that if a person's ancestor from there was Catholic, the Catholic church records of the Augsburg diocese were filmed by the Latter Day Saints (LDS) and are accessible on film IN the USA (or other countries besides Germany itself-- you can't see them in Germany, but if you're there you can just go to the church archive instead). You can rent them to be sent to your local FHC (Family History Center) after you look them up in the LDS Family History Library (FHL) Catalog. This isn't true of a lot of Catholic records from other parts of Bavaria and it has the potential to save a person whose ancestors were from Swabia a lot of money, if they're willing to search the old records themselves. If your ancestors were from Swabia and you know what town and the parish people who lived in that town went to, if they were Catholic I can help you look up the parish in the Catalog. If they were Protestant I can still look it up in the Catalog, but I'm not positive it will be in there. In that case, I can still give you the name of the correct Protestant archive to write to in Bavaria. Good luck! Joanne In a message dated 02/11/2003 11:24:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > > Could someone please explain Swabia in Bavaria to me? Was it a German > state, so to speak or was it a region w/in Bavaria? Any information would > be deeply appreciated. > > TIA, > Amelia >

Could someone please explain Swabia in Bavaria to me? Was it a German state, so to speak or was it a region w/in Bavaria? Any information would be deeply appreciated. TIA, Amelia

Dear list, I would like to know how do I go about finding out about a gentleman/men named Chre'tian van Muench/von Munch and son Johanes van Muench/von Munch and George Munig who left Bavaria in 1749, possibly on the ship, the Queen of Denmark, and came to Bethany Georgia USA on a crown grant from King Charles II. Cre'tian was an Augsburg bank and trustee to the colony. The surname was Anglicized to Meannix/Menix/Mennix/Minnix/Minix, in the US, by 1778. He/they were with a German Baptist group - the Dunkards. TIA for any assistance in locating this/these individual/s's backgrounds and heritage. Amelia Minnix Smith ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 3:28 PM Subject: [BAVARIA] Re: Gunther > > Oh, and Charles, just one more thing: > > It wasn't rare for Germans to go to Switzerland and then later go back home. > Many Germans (including a couple in my own family) went to Switzerland to > work and then back to Germany again later. Some Swiss looked down on the > Germans, called them unclean, a blight on their society, they had too many > babies out of wedlock, etc. I guess it could be comparable to how some > Americans look upon the Mexicans who cross the border to work in the USA > today. > > Another reason for you to be cautious with the information you received > besides the commonality of the surname. > > Gunther isn't so common as Schmidt, for sure, but also not as rare as other > surnames such as Uttendorfer or Frammersberger. In 2001, Günther was ranked > as the 52nd *most common surname* in Germany on a list of the 100 most common > German surnames. Günther had a total of 32,441 people with the surname. So > I am sure there was probably more than one Carl Gunther in Germany at the > time yours lived there. But, you can look on a map to see how close the > locations are to the information for the place you know to be true of your > own ancestor. > > I have a very good historical article about the subject of the German - Swiss > migration flow which was translated into English, if you're ever interested. > It wouldn't be a big deal for me to send it because it's just sitting here in > my computer already. But, I'd have to send it as an attachment, so you'd > have to be willing to accept an attachment. > > Good luck with your search, > Joanne > > > > > In a message dated 02/11/2003 2:55:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > Hi Charles, > > > > Try visiting the following webpage to sign up for the Switzerland list. > > I'm > > sending you the main URL for all the Swiss genealogy lists available at > > RootsWeb. First you could join "Switzerland", which is listed at the > > bottom. > > Later when you figure out what canton, maybe you could join one of those, > > too. > > > > So, click on the word "Switzerland" and it will take you to the page with > > the > > directions for signing up to the Switzerland list. > > > > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/CHE/ > > > > > > BTW, I would be cautious in assuming that the Guenther that was found and > > given to you is definitely yours. I don't think Guenther is a terribly > > rare > > surname and it might be a totally different person than the one you're > > looking for. But I hope it's not. :-) > > > > Good luck, > > Joanne > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 02/11/2003 2:20:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > > > > > Charles, > > > > > > You wrote: > > > > > > > "I recieved no reply from the last time I posted this message, so > > > thought I > > > > would try again. This is the enquiry: > > > > > > [synopsized] > > > > > > > My greatgrandfather Carl GUNTHER said he was born in Switzerland. > > > > > > > His father was also Carl GUNTHER, but didn't say that his father was > > > Swiss. > > > > > > > SKS has pointed out a Carl Gottlob GUENTHER born in Pulsnitz, Ohorn, > > > Sa., Germany in 1793, who married in 1823 at Strhla, Eble, Sa. and > > > then married again in 1828 at Baden, Aargau, Switzerland > > > > > > > He died in 1849 at Heidehaeuser, Lichtensee, Sa. > > > > > > > Can anyone telling if I can on the right List?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Sister or Brother, > Can you spare $10 dollars to support Rootsweb? > http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html#personal > >

Norm, Thanks for sharing your speculations. It does seem likely that, since Henry was only 8 when he came to the US, he (or whoever talked to the census taker) might have mistakenly assumed that he was born in Saxe-Coburg based on conversations he remembered (or mis-remembered) hearing while he was growing up. You raise an excellent point. With whom did Henry live after his parents died? Heinrich, his father, died in 1847. In 1850 the census shows him living with his mother Christina and his brothers and sister; their real estate was valued at $200. Henry was 14; his older brothers, Frederick (20) and Lewis (16) were listed as farmers. Frederick was married in 1851. Then in 1855, when Henry was 19, his mother died; the youngest child was 10. Did Frederick, as the oldest son, inherit the farm? In 1856 Frederick (26), Henry (20) and their younger brother William (14) moved to IL. According to William's obituary, William lived with his brother Fred after his parents died. Fred was 15 when they came to the US, so he would surely have known where the family came from. Your point about the church records being more accurate than those records based on memories (census) is well taken. I should probably focus my search on Hanover and put Saxe-Coburg on the back burner. But I do need to revisit the 1860 census and see who those other families were that claimed to be from Saxe-Coburg. Thank you for helping me think this through. Kay [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: Norm B [mailto:[email protected]spring.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 10:03 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg and/or Hanover Kay (not Kathy) :-), The census takers wrote whatever the head of household told them. The census records of Henry Lange/Long apparently changed multiple times: 1850-Germany, 1860-Saxe-Coburg, 1870-Germany, 1880-Hanover, 1900-Germany. By the way, there was no country named "Germany" before 1871, only weak alliances of Germanic nations. So we must "read his mind" to know why he or someone gave those answers or which was correct. Obviously you or I cannot do that. We can only speculate. How is this for speculation? Henry Lange/Long was born about 1837 in Hanover, where his parents had married in 1829. (Church records are generally more accurate than census records.) The family may have moved briefly to Saxe-Coburg before emigrating from there in 1844, or they may have joined an emigrating group of friends/relatives from Saxe-Coburg on their way to Bremen. His father died the following year (1845), so perhaps they lived together with another family after that and the head of that household told the 1850 census taker "Germany". His mother died about 1855, so perhaps close families from Saxe-Coburg helped raise him. Thus the 1860 census answer of "Saxe-Coburg" by the head-of-household. By the 1870 census, he was 33; in his confusion, the generic "Germany" seemed a safe answer. By 1880 he recognized and declared his true birth place. By 1900, all former German nations were referred to with the generic "Germany". What do you think? Would anybody else care to speculate? Norm ----- Original Message ----- From: Kay Wilson To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 2:25 AM Subject: RE: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg and/or Hanover Norm, Thank you for your response. This confirms what I have found in my studies. So the next question is, what might account for the Hanover/Saxe-Coburg discrepancy? Some related information: - Henry Lange/Long was 23 years old in 1860 when the census lists his place of birth as Saxe Coberg. He was only 8 when the family came to the US from Germany. I suppose an 8 year old might have been confused about his birthplace. His father died in 1845, and his mother died in ~1855. - The 1860 census in the same county lists several other persons whose members were born in Saxe-Coburg. I need to revisit that census and see who they were. - The obituaries of three of the Lange/Long brothers all state that each was born in Hanover. Kay (not Kathy :) [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: Norm B [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 11:11 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg and/or Hanover Kathy, In 1825, the ruling line of Saxe-Gotha died out. In early 1826, the tiny Saxon duchies in the Thuringian hills at the heart of Europe were re-arranged. Among them emerged Saxe-Coburg-Gotha which was later associated with the British royal family. This tiny state existed on the northern border of Bavaria, between Bavaria and Saxe-Meiningen. It lay east of Frankfurt and north of Nuremberg. To my knowledge, the British-ruled Kingdom of Hannover never extended south of a point east of Kassel, about 60 miles north of Coburg. From http://www.eurohistory.com/ernst.html : The duchy of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha was formed by the joining of two separate, neighboring, principalities, [Saxe and Gotha]. The principality of Coburg had previously been inherited by members of the Saxe-Altenburg family in the XVIIth century. The principality of Gotha came under the family's control after the death of the last reigning duke [in 1825]. His only daughter, Prince Louise of Saxe-Gotha, was the wife of Duke Ernst I of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld. In exchange for Gotha, a much more desirable principality, Duke Ernst gave away the duchy of Saalfeld. From that date on, the family was known by the name of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. Norm ----- Original Message ----- From: Kay Wilson To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 11:28 PM Subject: RE: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg and/or Hanover I am trying to understand whether Saxe-Coburg and Hannover could have referred to the same place. I have studied numerous historical maps and have not found any proof that this could be the case, but it is often difficult to compare maps that are of different scales and do not show the same landmarks. Below is the documentation I have found regarding the origins of my LANGE/LONG family. Based on this information , is it likely this family came from the Coburg area? 1844 Passenger & Immigration Lists: - Port of Departure: Bremen - Country of Origin: Deutschland 1847 Church records: - Heinrich LANGE of Hannover, born 1803 - Christina nee BRUNS of Hannover - Married in Germany 1829 1850 US Census: - Henry Long (son) Birthplace: Germany 1860 US Census: - Henry Long (son) Birthplace: Saxe Coburg 1870 US Census: - Henry Long (son) Birthplace: Germany 1880 US Census: - Henry Long (son) Birthplace: Hanover - Father's birthplace: Hanover - Mother's birthplace: Hanover 1900 US Census: - Birthplace: Germany - Father's birthplace: Germany - Mother's birthplace: Germany Kay [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: Michael Rauck [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 5:03 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg Kay, I would say yes, but I'd recommend you to make also use of the know how of the Thuringen list members of [email protected] (mostly Enlish) [email protected] (mostly German) Michael -----Original Message----- From: Kay Wilson [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 10:25 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg Is this the correct list for discussing Saxe-Coburg? Kay [email protected] ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== Sister or Brother, Can you spare $10 dollars to support Rootsweb? http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html#personal ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html to unsubscribe ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html to unsubscribe ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== Sister or Brother, Can you spare $10 dollars to support Rootsweb? http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html#personal ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html to unsubscribe

Dear Listers, I recieved no reply from the last time I posted this message, so thought I would try again. This is the enquiry: I noticed some discussion of where folk should be looking, e.g. Saxe-Coburg. I have a possible who married in Switzerland but was German. My great grandfather Carl GUNTHER said he was born in Switzerland and his father was also Carl GUNTHER, but didn't say that his father was Swiss. SKS has pointed out a Carl Gottlob GUENTHER who got married in Baden, Aargau, Switzerland in 1828. He fits the correct time period for my great great grandfather, but he was German. Carl Gottlob GUENTHER was born in Pulsnitz, Ohorn, Sa., Germany in 1793, married Christianna W. VOLKMANN in 1823 at Strhla, Eble, Sa. and then married again in 1828 at Baden, Aargau, Switzerland (sadly wife's name not given). He died in 1849 at Heidehaeuser, Lichtensee, Sa. Can anyone telling if I can on the right List? Best wishes from Japan, Charles

Oh, and Charles, just one more thing: It wasn't rare for Germans to go to Switzerland and then later go back home. Many Germans (including a couple in my own family) went to Switzerland to work and then back to Germany again later. Some Swiss looked down on the Germans, called them unclean, a blight on their society, they had too many babies out of wedlock, etc. I guess it could be comparable to how some Americans look upon the Mexicans who cross the border to work in the USA today. Another reason for you to be cautious with the information you received besides the commonality of the surname. Gunther isn't so common as Schmidt, for sure, but also not as rare as other surnames such as Uttendorfer or Frammersberger. In 2001, Günther was ranked as the 52nd *most common surname* in Germany on a list of the 100 most common German surnames. Günther had a total of 32,441 people with the surname. So I am sure there was probably more than one Carl Gunther in Germany at the time yours lived there. But, you can look on a map to see how close the locations are to the information for the place you know to be true of your own ancestor. I have a very good historical article about the subject of the German - Swiss migration flow which was translated into English, if you're ever interested. It wouldn't be a big deal for me to send it because it's just sitting here in my computer already. But, I'd have to send it as an attachment, so you'd have to be willing to accept an attachment. Good luck with your search, Joanne In a message dated 02/11/2003 2:55:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > > Hi Charles, > > Try visiting the following webpage to sign up for the Switzerland list. > I'm > sending you the main URL for all the Swiss genealogy lists available at > RootsWeb. First you could join "Switzerland", which is listed at the > bottom. > Later when you figure out what canton, maybe you could join one of those, > too. > > So, click on the word "Switzerland" and it will take you to the page with > the > directions for signing up to the Switzerland list. > > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/CHE/ > > > BTW, I would be cautious in assuming that the Guenther that was found and > given to you is definitely yours. I don't think Guenther is a terribly > rare > surname and it might be a totally different person than the one you're > looking for. But I hope it's not. :-) > > Good luck, > Joanne > > > > > In a message dated 02/11/2003 2:20:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > Charles, > > > > You wrote: > > > > > "I recieved no reply from the last time I posted this message, so > > thought I > > > would try again. This is the enquiry: > > > > [synopsized] > > > > > My greatgrandfather Carl GUNTHER said he was born in Switzerland. > > > > > His father was also Carl GUNTHER, but didn't say that his father was > > Swiss. > > > > > SKS has pointed out a Carl Gottlob GUENTHER born in Pulsnitz, Ohorn, > > Sa., Germany in 1793, who married in 1823 at Strhla, Eble, Sa. and > > then married again in 1828 at Baden, Aargau, Switzerland > > > > > He died in 1849 at Heidehaeuser, Lichtensee, Sa. > > > > > Can anyone telling if I can on the right List?" > > > > > > >

Hi Charles, Try visiting the following webpage to sign up for the Switzerland list. I'm sending you the main URL for all the Swiss genealogy lists available at RootsWeb. First you could join "Switzerland", which is listed at the bottom. Later when you figure out what canton, maybe you could join one of those, too. So, click on the word "Switzerland" and it will take you to the page with the directions for signing up to the Switzerland list. http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/CHE/ BTW, I would be cautious in assuming that the Guenther that was found and given to you is definitely yours. I don't think Guenther is a terribly rare surname and it might be a totally different person than the one you're looking for. But I hope it's not. :-) Good luck, Joanne In a message dated 02/11/2003 2:20:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > > Charles, > > You wrote: > > > "I recieved no reply from the last time I posted this message, so > thought I > > would try again. This is the enquiry: > > [synopsized] > > > My greatgrandfather Carl GUNTHER said he was born in Switzerland. > > > His father was also Carl GUNTHER, but didn't say that his father was > Swiss. > > > SKS has pointed out a Carl Gottlob GUENTHER born in Pulsnitz, Ohorn, > Sa., Germany in 1793, who married in 1823 at Strhla, Eble, Sa. and > then married again in 1828 at Baden, Aargau, Switzerland > > > He died in 1849 at Heidehaeuser, Lichtensee, Sa. > > > Can anyone telling if I can on the right List?" > >

Charles, You wrote: > "I recieved no reply from the last time I posted this message, so thought I > would try again. This is the enquiry: [synopsized] > My greatgrandfather Carl GUNTHER said he was born in Switzerland. > His father was also Carl GUNTHER, but didn't say that his father was Swiss. > SKS has pointed out a Carl Gottlob GUENTHER born in Pulsnitz, Ohorn, Sa., Germany in 1793, who married in 1823 at Strhla, Eble, Sa. and then married again in 1828 at Baden, Aargau, Switzerland > He died in 1849 at Heidehaeuser, Lichtensee, Sa. > Can anyone telling if I can on the right List?" Since NONE of the places you mention above are in Bavaria, I would say this is NOT the right list. Sorry. Norm ----- Original Message ----- From: "evans-gunther" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 2:00 AM Subject: [BAVARIA] Reposting GUNTHER > Dear Listers, > I recieved no reply from the last time I posted this message, so thought I > would try again. This is the enquiry: > > I noticed some discussion of where folk should be looking, e.g. Saxe-Coburg. > > I have a possible who married in Switzerland but was German. My great > grandfather Carl GUNTHER said he was born in Switzerland and his father was > also Carl GUNTHER, but didn't say that his father was Swiss. SKS has > pointed out a Carl Gottlob GUENTHER who got married in Baden, Aargau, > Switzerland in 1828. He fits the correct time period for my great great > grandfather, but he was German. > > Carl Gottlob GUENTHER was born in Pulsnitz, Ohorn, Sa., Germany in 1793, > married Christianna W. VOLKMANN in 1823 at Strhla, Eble, Sa. and then > married again in 1828 at Baden, Aargau, Switzerland (sadly wife's name not > given). He died in 1849 at Heidehaeuser, Lichtensee, Sa. > > Can anyone telling if I can on the right List? > > Best wishes from Japan, > Charles > > > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html > to unsubscribe > >

Looking for the person who wrote this: 11. SOFFEL Author: Barbara Collins   Date: 17 Dec 2000 Board: Boards > Localities > Central Europe > Germany > Baden-Wuerttemberg > General Yes, I know of your SOFFELS`, if they`re the same ones. Charles married Lena MILLER. I am also related. Barbara : ) BARRETT, BURKE, BYRNE, CORRIGAN, GALLAGHER, McNALLY, QUINN. BAUER, BEARE, BEIMANN, BEEKMAN, BEUSCHER, BLANKENMEYER, CASTLE, DECKER, ENGLEHARD/T, HELMKEN, HOHLER, HURRINUS, JOHNSON, KELLER, KITTELBERGER, LOW, MILLER/MEULLER/MULLER, RANGESSEN [sp?], ROLLMANN, SCHNEIDER, SOFFEL, STERRITT, STRATTON, TRAVER, UMBROLIA, VETTER, WAGNER, WEIGAND, WILLIAMS BUDARZ, ROMANSKI.

Kay (not Kathy) :-), The census takers wrote whatever the head of household told them. The census records of Henry Lange/Long apparently changed multiple times: 1850-Germany, 1860-Saxe-Coburg, 1870-Germany, 1880-Hanover, 1900-Germany. By the way, there was no country named "Germany" before 1871, only weak alliances of Germanic nations. So we must "read his mind" to know why he or someone gave those answers or which was correct. Obviously you or I cannot do that. We can only speculate. How is this for speculation? Henry Lange/Long was born about 1837 in Hanover, where his parents had married in 1829. (Church records are generally more accurate than census records.) The family may have moved briefly to Saxe-Coburg before emigrating from there in 1844, or they may have joined an emigrating group of friends/relatives from Saxe-Coburg on their way to Bremen. His father died the following year (1845), so perhaps they lived together with another family after that and the head of that household told the 1850 census taker "Germany". His mother died about 1855, so perhaps close families from Saxe-Coburg helped raise him. Thus the 1860 census answer of "Saxe-Coburg" by the head-of-household. By the 1870 census, he was 33; in his confusion, the generic "Germany" seemed a safe answer. By 1880 he recognized and declared his true birth place. By 1900, all former German nations were referred to with the generic "Germany". What do you think? Would anybody else care to speculate? Norm ----- Original Message ----- From: Kay Wilson To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 2:25 AM Subject: RE: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg and/or Hanover Norm, Thank you for your response. This confirms what I have found in my studies. So the next question is, what might account for the Hanover/Saxe-Coburg discrepancy? Some related information: - Henry Lange/Long was 23 years old in 1860 when the census lists his place of birth as Saxe Coberg. He was only 8 when the family came to the US from Germany. I suppose an 8 year old might have been confused about his birthplace. His father died in 1845, and his mother died in ~1855. - The 1860 census in the same county lists several other persons whose members were born in Saxe-Coburg. I need to revisit that census and see who they were. - The obituaries of three of the Lange/Long brothers all state that each was born in Hanover. Kay (not Kathy :) [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: Norm B [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 11:11 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg and/or Hanover Kathy, In 1825, the ruling line of Saxe-Gotha died out. In early 1826, the tiny Saxon duchies in the Thuringian hills at the heart of Europe were re-arranged. Among them emerged Saxe-Coburg-Gotha which was later associated with the British royal family. This tiny state existed on the northern border of Bavaria, between Bavaria and Saxe-Meiningen. It lay east of Frankfurt and north of Nuremberg. To my knowledge, the British-ruled Kingdom of Hannover never extended south of a point east of Kassel, about 60 miles north of Coburg. From http://www.eurohistory.com/ernst.html : The duchy of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha was formed by the joining of two separate, neighboring, principalities, [Saxe and Gotha]. The principality of Coburg had previously been inherited by members of the Saxe-Altenburg family in the XVIIth century. The principality of Gotha came under the family's control after the death of the last reigning duke [in 1825]. His only daughter, Prince Louise of Saxe-Gotha, was the wife of Duke Ernst I of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld. In exchange for Gotha, a much more desirable principality, Duke Ernst gave away the duchy of Saalfeld. From that date on, the family was known by the name of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. Norm ----- Original Message ----- From: Kay Wilson To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 11:28 PM Subject: RE: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg and/or Hanover I am trying to understand whether Saxe-Coburg and Hannover could have referred to the same place. I have studied numerous historical maps and have not found any proof that this could be the case, but it is often difficult to compare maps that are of different scales and do not show the same landmarks. Below is the documentation I have found regarding the origins of my LANGE/LONG family. Based on this information , is it likely this family came from the Coburg area? 1844 Passenger & Immigration Lists: - Port of Departure: Bremen - Country of Origin: Deutschland 1847 Church records: - Heinrich LANGE of Hannover, born 1803 - Christina nee BRUNS of Hannover - Married in Germany 1829 1850 US Census: - Henry Long (son) Birthplace: Germany 1860 US Census: - Henry Long (son) Birthplace: Saxe Coburg 1870 US Census: - Henry Long (son) Birthplace: Germany 1880 US Census: - Henry Long (son) Birthplace: Hanover - Father's birthplace: Hanover - Mother's birthplace: Hanover 1900 US Census: - Birthplace: Germany - Father's birthplace: Germany - Mother's birthplace: Germany Kay [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: Michael Rauck [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 5:03 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg Kay, I would say yes, but I'd recommend you to make also use of the know how of the Thuringen list members of [email protected] (mostly Enlish) [email protected] (mostly German) Michael -----Original Message----- From: Kay Wilson [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 10:25 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg Is this the correct list for discussing Saxe-Coburg? Kay [email protected] ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== Sister or Brother, Can you spare $10 dollars to support Rootsweb? http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html#personal ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html to unsubscribe ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html to unsubscribe ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== Sister or Brother, Can you spare $10 dollars to support Rootsweb? http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html#personal

Norm, Thank you for your response. This confirms what I have found in my studies. So the next question is, what might account for the Hanover/Saxe-Coburg discrepancy? Some related information: - Henry Lange/Long was 23 years old in 1860 when the census lists his place of birth as Saxe Coberg. He was only 8 when the family came to the US from Germany. I suppose an 8 year old might have been confused about his birthplace. His father died in 1845, and his mother died in ~1855. - The 1860 census in the same county lists several other persons whose members were born in Saxe-Coburg. I need to revisit that census and see who they were. - The obituaries of three of the Lange/Long brothers all state that each was born in Hanover. Kay (not Kathy :) [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: Norm B [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 11:11 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg and/or Hanover Kathy, In 1825, the ruling line of Saxe-Gotha died out. In early 1826, the tiny Saxon duchies in the Thuringian hills at the heart of Europe were re-arranged. Among them emerged Saxe-Coburg-Gotha which was later associated with the British royal family. This tiny state existed on the northern border of Bavaria, between Bavaria and Saxe-Meiningen. It lay east of Frankfurt and north of Nuremberg. To my knowledge, the British-ruled Kingdom of Hannover never extended south of a point east of Kassel, about 60 miles north of Coburg. From http://www.eurohistory.com/ernst.html : The duchy of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha was formed by the joining of two separate, neighboring, principalities, [Saxe and Gotha]. The principality of Coburg had previously been inherited by members of the Saxe-Altenburg family in the XVIIth century. The principality of Gotha came under the family's control after the death of the last reigning duke [in 1825]. His only daughter, Prince Louise of Saxe-Gotha, was the wife of Duke Ernst I of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld. In exchange for Gotha, a much more desirable principality, Duke Ernst gave away the duchy of Saalfeld. From that date on, the family was known by the name of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. Norm ----- Original Message ----- From: Kay Wilson To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 11:28 PM Subject: RE: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg and/or Hanover I am trying to understand whether Saxe-Coburg and Hannover could have referred to the same place. I have studied numerous historical maps and have not found any proof that this could be the case, but it is often difficult to compare maps that are of different scales and do not show the same landmarks. Below is the documentation I have found regarding the origins of my LANGE/LONG family. Based on this information , is it likely this family came from the Coburg area? 1844 Passenger & Immigration Lists: - Port of Departure: Bremen - Country of Origin: Deutschland 1847 Church records: - Heinrich LANGE of Hannover, born 1803 - Christina nee BRUNS of Hannover - Married in Germany 1829 1850 US Census: - Henry Long (son) Birthplace: Germany 1860 US Census: - Henry Long (son) Birthplace: Saxe Coburg 1870 US Census: - Henry Long (son) Birthplace: Germany 1880 US Census: - Henry Long (son) Birthplace: Hanover - Father's birthplace: Hanover - Mother's birthplace: Hanover 1900 US Census: - Birthplace: Germany - Father's birthplace: Germany - Mother's birthplace: Germany Kay [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: Michael Rauck [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 5:03 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg Kay, I would say yes, but I'd recommend you to make also use of the know how of the Thuringen list members of [email protected] (mostly Enlish) [email protected] (mostly German) Michael -----Original Message----- From: Kay Wilson [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 10:25 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg Is this the correct list for discussing Saxe-Coburg? Kay [email protected] ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== Sister or Brother, Can you spare $10 dollars to support Rootsweb? http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html#personal ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html to unsubscribe ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html to unsubscribe

Hi Karen from down-under, Your husband should send a request to the Standesamt (civil registry office) in Bayreuth. They keep the birth/death/marriage records there, but will only release them to the individual named (your husband) or direct descendants (son, grandson, etc,), not to the spouse. Bayreuth County : | | +---- Bayreuth {BT} (kreisfrei/independent) RegBez : | +------- Oberfranken Land : +--------- Bayern ZIP : 95444-95448 Popul : 71527 Locat : 49d57m N 11d35m E Bayreuth has a (German) website at http://www.meinestadt.de/bayreuth/home or http://www.bayreuth.bayern-online.de/. If you need help with translation, go to http://world.altavista.com/ . If you don't find a street address for the Standesamt, you could write to Standesamt Bayreuth 95444-95448 Bayreuth Germany Norm ----- Original Message ----- From: Karen Simson To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 1:10 AM Subject: [BAVARIA] HIESCHLER Hi all, I am new to the list and hope i am on the right one, and that some of the replies will be in English!. I am looking for my husbands family. Info i have so far - My husband was born in Bayreuth, (I believe Bavaria covers this) Germany in 1953, his fathers name is Karl-Heinz HIESCHLER born 5/4/1926 in Oppeln Germany, his father was August HIESCHLER (wholesale grocery supplier). Karl-Heinz lived at 7 Casselmann Strasse, Bayreuth. How can i find out the info i need to order birth, marriage and death records. Any advise appreciated. After doing my English side (practically everythings on-line) this is proving rather difficult. Thank you Karen Adelaide Australia ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html to unsubscribe

My great grandfather's name was Johan, or John, Halbig. He came from northern Bavaria in a small town/village called Machtilshausen. The village is near the city of Hammelburg which is north of Wurzburg. There were others that came over to the states after him. They all settled in New Jersey in and around Newark. Some other Halbig's from the same town (Machtilshausen), even lived in the same house, immigrated to Illinois. Jack

Hi all, I am new to the list and hope i am on the right one, and that some of the replies will be in English!. I am looking for my husbands family. Info i have so far - My husband was born in Bayreuth, (I believe Bavaria covers this) Germany in 1953, his fathers name is Karl-Heinz HIESCHLER born 5/4/1926 in Oppeln Germany, his father was August HIESCHLER (wholesale grocery supplier). Karl-Heinz lived at 7 Casselmann Strasse, Bayreuth. How can i find out the info i need to order birth, marriage and death records. Any advise appreciated. After doing my English side (practically everythings on-line) this is proving rather difficult. Thank you Karen Adelaide Australia

Hi Listers, I noticed some discussion of where folk should be looking, e.g. Saxe-Coburg. I have a possible who married in Switzerland but was German. My great grandfather Carl GUNTHER said he was born in Switzerland and his father was also Carl GUNTHER, but didn't say that his father was Swiss. SKS has pointed out a Carl Gottlob GUENTHER who got married in Baden, Aargau, Switzerland in 1828. He fits the correct time period for my great great grandfather, but he was German. carl Gottlob GUENTHER was born in Pulsnitz, Ohorn, Sa., Germany in 1793, married Christianna W. VOLKMANN in 1823 at Strhla, Eble, Sa. and then married again in 1828 at Baden, Aargau, Switzerland (sadly wife's name not given). He died in 1849 at Heidehaeuser, Lichtensee, Sa. Can anyone telling if I can on the right List? Best wishes from Japan, Charles

Kay, I would say yes, but I'd recommend you to make also use of the know how of the Thuringen list members of [email protected] (mostly Enlish) [email protected] (mostly German) Michael -----Original Message----- From: Kay Wilson [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 10:25 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg Is this the correct list for discussing Saxe-Coburg? Kay [email protected]