Thank you, Michael! I did find them. Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Rauck" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 10:17 AM Subject: RE: [BAVARIA] locations Hello, I cannot find Edasheim. There is one Edesheim, though. I used http://gov.genealogy.net for tracking down these places. Good luck, Michael Namen Hambach b Dittelbrunn Staatliche Zugehörigkeit Bayern RB Unterfranken - Kreis Schweinfurt (seit 1949) Gemeindeschlüssel: 09678123 Ortsteile Geographische Lage 50°6'N 10°11'O Maidenhead-Locator: JO50CC TK25: 5927 TK50: L5926 UTM : 32U 5550438N 585820E Orte in der Umgebung weitere Daten PLZ: W8721 PLZ: 97456 (seit 1993) FOKO-Kennung HAMACHJO50CC Namen Hornbach, Pfalz Staatliche Zugehörigkeit Rheinland-Pfalz RB Rheinhessen-Pfalz - Kreis Südwestpfalz (seit 1949) Gemeindeschlüssel: 07340211 Ortsteile Geographische Lage 49°10'N 7°22'O Maidenhead-Locator: JN39QE TK25: 6810 TK50: L6910 UTM : 32U 5448744N 381210E Orte in der Umgebung Kirchen Hornbach ev weitere Daten PLZ: W6664 PLZ: 66500 (seit 1993) FOKO-Kennung HORACHJN39QE Namen Edesheim, Pfalz Staatliche Zugehörigkeit Rheinland-Pfalz RB Rheinhessen-Pfalz - Kreis Südliche Weinstraße (seit 1949) Gemeindeschlüssel: 07337021 Ortsteile Geographische Lage 49°16'N 8°7'O Maidenhead-Locator: JN49BG TK25: 6714 TK50: L6714 UTM : 32U 5457835N 436711E Orte in der Umgebung weitere Daten PLZ: W6736 PLZ: 67483 (seit 1993) FOKO-Kennung EDEEIMJN49BG -----Original Message----- From: Susan Westhoff [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 4:29 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [BAVARIA] locations I'm trying to locate: Hornbach, Hambach, & Edasheim in Bavaria. Susan ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html to unsubscribe ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html to unsubscribe

In a message dated 2/19/2003 11:23:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > I am hoping someone can offer me some guidance. I do not know which list I > should send this inquiry to. Perhaps someone can offer me their > suggestion. > > I am searching for the surname STECKMAN or STECHMANN. I have been given > the area of Alsace. I do not know anything of this area. > Hello Fran: Rootsweb has an Alsace-Lorraine mailing list, which might be helpful. It's listed under the France mailing list. Paul C. Miller

In addition to all the many places to look up locations, I recently stumbled onto MultiMap at http://www.multimap.com Works for Bavaria and most other locations in this world. You get a quick, coherent & navigable map along with coordinates for the requested location. Their indexing for Bavaria is quite good, but e.g. their USA indexing falls far short. Ron Klotz-Zellhoefer Arizona USA --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by White Mountains Online using Declude Anti-Virus Software]

Hi Susan, I know Michael answered your question, but it brought to mind a page I'm working on for the Bavaria Gen Web website (the whole website is currently a "work in progress"): "Town Locators" http://www.rootsweb.com/~deubay/town_locators.html I thought that you (and others) might like to use the page to find places in the future. It also lists the resource Michael used to find your locations, "Genealogy.net's town name or zip code search" at: http://gov.genealogy.net, among many others. :-) Good luck, Joanne In a message dated 02/19/2003 11:17:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Westhoff [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 4:29 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [BAVARIA] locations > > I'm trying to locate: Hornbach, Hambach, & Edasheim in Bavaria. > > Susan >

Hello: I am hoping someone can offer me some guidance. I do not know which list I should send this inquiry to. Perhaps someone can offer me their suggestion. I am searching for the surname STECKMAN or STECHMANN. I have been given the area of Alsace. I do not know anything of this area. Can anyone help me with either the surnames STECKMAN or STECHMANN or the area of Alsace. If anyone is familiar with the surname, might I locate in another area. Thank you, Fran

Can anyone tell me how to get information about Adam Weidner, (b.1825 Hornbach or Hambach, Bavaria) who served in the Royal Bavarian Army 1847-1853? Susan

I'm trying to locate: Hornbach, Hambach, & Edasheim in Bavaria. Susan

Sorry for the delay in replying. OK, thanks for that. I will check out the websites. Once again, thank you Karen Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norm B" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 3:39 PM Subject: Re: [BAVARIA] HIESCHLER > Hi Karen from down-under, > > Your husband should send a request to the Standesamt (civil registry > office) in Bayreuth. They keep the birth/death/marriage records there, > but will only release them to the individual named (your husband) or > direct descendants (son, grandson, etc,), not to the spouse. > > Bayreuth > County : | | +---- Bayreuth {BT} (kreisfrei/independent) > RegBez : | +------- Oberfranken > Land : +--------- Bayern > ZIP : 95444-95448 > Popul : 71527 > Locat : 49d57m N 11d35m E > > Bayreuth has a (German) website at > http://www.meinestadt.de/bayreuth/home or > http://www.bayreuth.bayern-online.de/. If you need help with > translation, go to http://world.altavista.com/ . > > If you don't find a street address for the Standesamt, you could write > to > > Standesamt Bayreuth > 95444-95448 Bayreuth > Germany > > Norm > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Karen Simson > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 1:10 AM > Subject: [BAVARIA] HIESCHLER > > > Hi all, I am new to the list and hope i am on the right one, and that > some > of the replies will be in English!. > I am looking for my husbands family. > > Info i have so far - My husband was born in Bayreuth, (I believe > Bavaria > covers this) Germany in 1953, his fathers name is Karl-Heinz HIESCHLER > born > 5/4/1926 in Oppeln Germany, his father was August HIESCHLER > (wholesale > grocery supplier). Karl-Heinz lived at 7 Casselmann Strasse, > Bayreuth. > > How can i find out the info i need to order birth, marriage and death > records. Any advise appreciated. After doing my English side > (practically > everythings on-line) this is proving rather difficult. > Thank you > Karen > Adelaide > Australia > > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html > to unsubscribe > > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html > to unsubscribe >

Hello. My name is Kimberly Lemons and I am doing research into my family tree. I have a Nicholas PARCHMAN/PARCHMENT born about 1730 Parchim, Meckenburg, Germany and died in Bedford county, Pennsylvania. His son John Parchman was born in 1770 in Germany and died in 1831 Guices Creek, Stewart county, Tennessee. He married Margaret(Martha) about 1795. Any information on this family is greatly appreciated and my email is [email protected] and I check it daily. Thank you for your time. KImberly Lemons

I feel sure that you are trying to be helpful, but if people followed your instructions to spread this message, you and they would be contributing to the flood of email (SPAM) that clogs up the internet. I am always wary of messages that ask me to send something to everybody in my address book or to a certain number of people. That type of message usually gets immediately deleted by me. Sorry... Mary Ann > I'm sending this note to about thirty people. If each of you send it to at > least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)... and those 300 send it to at least ten > more (300 x 10 = 3,000) ... and so on, by the time the message reaches the > sixth generation of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION > consumers! If those three million get excited and pass this on to ten > friends each, then 30 million people will have been contacted! If it goes > one level further, you guessed it..... THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!! > > Again, all you have to do is send this to 10 people. How much would all > that take? If each of us sends this e-mail out to ten more people within > one day all 300 MILLION people could conceivably be contacted within the > next eight days!

THIS COULD WORK!! We CAN buy gasoline that's not from Middle East. The Saudis are boycotting American goods. We should return the favor. An interesting thought is to boycott their GAS. Every time you fill up the car, you can avoid putting more money into the coffers of Saudi Arabia. Just buy from gas companies that don't import their oil from the Saudis. Nothing is more frustrating than the feeling that every time I fill-up the tank, I am sending my money to people who are trying to kill me, my family, and my friends. I thought it might be interesting for you to know which oil companies are the best to buy gas from and which major companies import Middle Eastern oil (for the period 9/1/00- 8/31/01): Companies that import gas from the Middle East: Shell......................205,742,000 barrels Chevron/Texaco.............144,332,000 barrels Exxon /Mobil...............130,082,000 barrels Marathon/Speedway..........117,740,000 barrels Amoco......................62,231,000 barrels If you do the math at $30/barrel, these imports amount to over $18 BILLION! Here are some large companies that do not import Middle Eastern oil: Citgo......................0 barrels Sunoco.....................0 barrels Conoco.....................0 barrels Sinclair.................. 0 barrels BP/Phillips............... 0 barrels Hess.......................0 barrels All of this information is available from the Department of Energy and each is required to state where they get their oil and how much they are importing. They report on a monthly basis. Keep this list in your car; share it with friends. Stop paying for terrorism............. But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of gas buyers. It's really simple to do!! I'm sending this note to about thirty people. If each of you send it to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)... and those 300 send it to at least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000) ... and so on, by the time the message reaches the sixth generation of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION consumers! If those three million get excited and pass this on to ten friends each, then 30 million people will have been contacted! If it goes one level further, you guessed it..... THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!! Again, all you have to do is send this to 10 people. How much would all that take? If each of us sends this e-mail out to ten more people within one day all 300 MILLION people could conceivably be contacted within the next eight days!

Hallo Listenteilnehmer ich habe jetzt drei Ahnenspitzen bei denen ich derzeit nicht weiterkomme. 1. ROGLER Johannes, er stirbt am 25.12.1814 in Selb, Stopfersfurth (Germany, Bayern, Oberfranken). Geboren am 01.02.1743 ( lt. Todeseintrag 71 Jahre, 10 Monate, 26 Tage ) Wo geboren ??????? 2. WUNDERLICH Anna Margaretha, sie stirbt am 16.03.1809 in Selb, Stopfersfurth (Germany, Bayern, Oberfranken). Geboren ??.??.1747 ( lt. Todeseintrag 62 Jahre ) evtl. aus Selb, Buchwald Für ROGLER Johannes und WUNDERLICH Anna Marg. gibt es keinen Heiratseintrag in Selb oder Asch ( Austria, Boehmen As/Cz). Am 21.04.1779 wird der erste Sohn ROGLER Johann Nicolaus in Selb, Stopfersfurth geboren, der Vater wird als Bauer bezeichnet und ist bereits 37 Jahre alt. Pate. LEDERER Joh. Nicolaus, Bauer und Sohn, Selb, Buchwald. Weitere Kinder waren: ROGLER Joh. Adam * 29.04.1782 Pate: SPECHT Johann Adam, Sohn von SPECHT Wolfgang, Bauer in Längenau (bei Selb) ROGLER Barbara Marg. * 08.02.1785 Pate: BLECHSCHMIDT Marg. Barbara, Tochter von BLECHSCHMIDT Thomas, Inwohner Buchlohe (bei Selb) ROGLER Ursula * 11.08.1787 Pate: WUNDERLICH Ursula, ledige Schwester der Mutter 3. DRECHSEL Johann Christoph ? Heinrich ?, 26 Jahre, Logist der Ritter Kontons Brandstein, Sohn von DRECHSEL Johann Gottfried, Schullehrer und Organist in Berg heiratet am 06.06.1803 in Berg bei Naila (Germany, Bayern) ANDERSON Regina Johanna, 26 Jahre, Erlangen, Vater + ANDERSON Karl Albrecht, Lakai i. Dienste der Frau Markgräfin zu Erlangen ??? Sohn ??? DRECHSEL Heinrich Anton, Fleischhauer in Asch (Boehmen, As/Cz) heiratet 14.01.1827 KUENZEL Marg. Katharina * 11.08.1793 Asch Am 24.03.1812 wird ein DRECHSEL Christian David Theodor geboren, von einem Witwer DRECHSEL Christoph und TEICHMANN Elisabetha. Am 08.07.1827 heiratet der Witwer DRECHSEL Johann Christoph, Metzger und Herberger in Berg und TEICHMANN Elisabeth, Tochter von TEICHMANN Johann, Webermeister, Berg. (Hat sich endlich nach langjähriger After-Ehe trauen lassen mit seinem Anhange) Der Sohn DRECHSEL Christian David Theodor, Waldaufseher und Gemeindediener aus Bug bei Berg, heiratet SIKORA Anna Marg. * 22.04.1822 Berg. Hat jemand Bezug zu obigen Ahnen? Mit freundlichen Grüssen Paul Rogler Marienstr. 9 D-95100 Selb Germany Tel: 0049 (0) 9287 99410 E-mail : [email protected] MSN-Messenger: [email protected] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Rogler/

I'm researching Johann Leonhard Schloepp (Schlöpp), born 20 August 1748 (or 1746) in Frankfurt, Bavaria. Frankfurt is near Markt Taschendorf. Both towns are in the district (Kreis) of Scheinfeld and the province of Mittelfranken. Frankfurt is in the Evangelical parish of Obersteinbach and Markt Taschendorf is in the Evangelical parish of Taschendorf. The church records of Frankfurt and Markt Taschendorf have not been microfilmed by the Family History Library. I wrote to the Lutheran church in Markt Taschendorf and they did not find a record of baptism of Johann Leonhard Schloepp. The pastor in Frankfurt did not find the record either, but is going to do more checking. He did find SCHLOEPP baptisms in 1796 and 1798. Johann Leonhard SCHLOEPP went to New York in 1766 and changed his name to Leonard SLIP. Can anyone recommend a next step in my search for information on the SCHLOEPP family? Rick Crume 131 130th St S Glyndon Minnesota 56547-9551 USA

Dear Listers, I am about to move on to others Lists so would like to thanks those who have been helpful during my visit. I will try the suggestions made to me with the hope of a lucky hit knowing this is no easy task. Best wishes from Japan, Charles

In a message dated 2/12/2003 9:48:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > I am new to this list. I am researching my maternal gr gr gr grandmother > Elizabeth Willrich. She was born on 21 Feb 1820 according to later > documents but no village name was indicated. She had two brothers Michel > and Peter Willrich. Is there any particular village anyone is researching > that has come across the surname of Willrich? Hello: Do you know the date or year of birth of the brothers? As a start, you could try looking at the LDS site to see if you can find a town listing all three births. Unfortunately, the three names you mention are quite common, so there might be more than one town with these names, but at least it would be a starting point. I assume you have researched all the available American sources, including church, cemetery and obituary records, to see if perhaps the name of the home town is mentioned. Did the brothers also emigrate to America? Also, have you checked the Rootsweb mailing/surname lists to see if anyone else is researching your family? Finding the name of the home town is frequently a difficult search, but I hope you will have some success. Paul C. Miller

Hi Francine, I recalled that I had previously posted this information to another mailing list, so you can view it in that list's archives on the web. But I have to note that I have found in the past that AOL does not do well with mailing lists and long URL's (it sometimes causes a single URL to turn up disjointed, parts of it on separate lines), so I also include some other instructions on how to get to the same messages in the list archive in a shorter way. Hope it works for you. Joanne (see below for instructions on how to access the 3 parts of the text I posted to the other list) The first part is at this URL: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/BAVARIAN-ANCESTORS/2000-08/0967787567 (if it shows up disjointed to you (AOL does this with long URL's sometimes), it's one long single URL, no spaces) The second part: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/BAVARIAN-ANCESTORS/2000-09/0967867593 The third part: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/BAVARIAN-ANCESTORS/2000-09/0967990819 Go to *each* of the 3 URL's SEPARATELY, don't try to put all 3 URL's into your browser at the same time. If you have a hard time piecing that all together, just remember: The first part of the URL is always: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/BAVARIAN-ANCESTORS/ Thereafter, on the end of that URL with no spaces or anything, add: 2000-08/0967787567 (for the first part of the text) 2000-09/0967867593 (for the second part of the text that I posted at a later date) 2000-09/0967990819 (for the third part of the text that I posted at an even later date) In a message dated 02/12/2003 10:16:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > In a message dated 2/11/2003 12:31:45 PM Pacific Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > > > <A HREF="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</A> > > Could you please share with us your information on German-Swiss migration? > > It would be very helpful to me. > > Thank you. > Francine Conn Halter > >

Dear Listers, Thanks to those who replied to my reposting of GUNTHER. If I am on the wrong List for the GUNTHER I mentioned which German List would I be better suited on? Best wishes, Charles

Kay, Often information that is lacking in an ancestor's documents will be found in the records of his siblings. You might want to research Frederick, Lewis, and William to see what that reveals. Norm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kay Wilson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 12:27 AM Subject: RE: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg and/or Hanover > Norm, > > Thanks for sharing your speculations. It does seem likely that, since Henry > was only 8 when he came to the US, he (or whoever talked to the census > taker) might have mistakenly assumed that he was born in Saxe-Coburg based > on conversations he remembered (or mis-remembered) hearing while he was > growing up. > > You raise an excellent point. With whom did Henry live after his parents > died? Heinrich, his father, died in 1847. In 1850 the census shows him > living with his mother Christina and his brothers and sister; their real > estate was valued at $200. Henry was 14; his older brothers, Frederick (20) > and Lewis (16) were listed as farmers. Frederick was married in 1851. Then > in 1855, when Henry was 19, his mother died; the youngest child was 10. Did > Frederick, as the oldest son, inherit the farm? In 1856 Frederick (26), > Henry (20) and their younger brother William (14) moved to IL. According to > William's obituary, William lived with his brother Fred after his parents > died. Fred was 15 when they came to the US, so he would surely have known > where the family came from. > > Your point about the church records being more accurate than those records > based on memories (census) is well taken. I should probably focus my search > on Hanover and put Saxe-Coburg on the back burner. But I do need to revisit > the 1860 census and see who those other families were that claimed to be > from Saxe-Coburg. > > Thank you for helping me think this through. > > Kay > [email protected] > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Norm B [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 10:03 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg and/or Hanover > > > Kay (not Kathy) :-), > > The census takers wrote whatever the head of household told them. The > census records of Henry Lange/Long apparently changed multiple times: > 1850-Germany, 1860-Saxe-Coburg, 1870-Germany, 1880-Hanover, > 1900-Germany. By the way, there was no country named "Germany" before > 1871, only weak alliances of Germanic nations. So we must "read his > mind" to know why he or someone gave those answers or which was > correct. Obviously you or I cannot do that. We can only speculate. > > How is this for speculation? > Henry Lange/Long was born about 1837 in Hanover, where his parents had > married in 1829. (Church records are generally more accurate than > census records.) The family may have moved briefly to Saxe-Coburg > before emigrating from there in 1844, or they may have joined an > emigrating group of friends/relatives from Saxe-Coburg on their way to > Bremen. His father died the following year (1845), so perhaps they > lived together with another family after that and the head of that > household told the 1850 census taker "Germany". His mother died about > 1855, so perhaps close families from Saxe-Coburg helped raise him. > Thus the 1860 census answer of "Saxe-Coburg" by the head-of-household. > By the 1870 census, he was 33; in his confusion, the generic "Germany" > seemed a safe answer. By 1880 he recognized and declared his true > birth place. By 1900, all former German nations were referred to with > the generic "Germany". > > What do you think? > Would anybody else care to speculate? > > Norm > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kay Wilson > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 2:25 AM > Subject: RE: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg and/or Hanover > > > Norm, > > Thank you for your response. This confirms what I have found in my > studies. > So the next question is, what might account for the > Hanover/Saxe-Coburg > discrepancy? > > Some related information: > > - Henry Lange/Long was 23 years old in 1860 when the census lists his > place > of birth as Saxe Coberg. He was only 8 when the family came to the US > from > Germany. I suppose an 8 year old might have been confused about his > birthplace. His father died in 1845, and his mother died in ~1855. > > - The 1860 census in the same county lists several other persons whose > members were born in Saxe-Coburg. I need to revisit that census and > see who > they were. > > - The obituaries of three of the Lange/Long brothers all state that > each was > born in Hanover. > > Kay (not Kathy :) > [email protected] > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Norm B [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 11:11 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg and/or Hanover > > > Kathy, > > In 1825, the ruling line of Saxe-Gotha died out. In early 1826, the > tiny Saxon duchies in the > Thuringian hills at the heart of Europe were re-arranged. Among them > emerged Saxe-Coburg-Gotha which was later associated with the British > royal family. > > This tiny state existed on the northern border of Bavaria, between > Bavaria and Saxe-Meiningen. It lay east of Frankfurt and north of > Nuremberg. To my knowledge, the British-ruled Kingdom of Hannover > never extended south of a point east of Kassel, about 60 miles north > of Coburg. > > From http://www.eurohistory.com/ernst.html : > The duchy of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha was formed by the joining of two > separate, neighboring, principalities, [Saxe and Gotha]. The > principality of Coburg had previously been inherited by members of the > Saxe-Altenburg family in the XVIIth century. The principality of Gotha > came under the family's control after the death of the last reigning > duke [in 1825]. His only daughter, Prince Louise of Saxe-Gotha, was > the wife of Duke Ernst I of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld. In exchange for > Gotha, a much more desirable principality, Duke Ernst gave away the > duchy of Saalfeld. From that date on, the family was known by the name > of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. > > Norm > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kay Wilson > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 11:28 PM > Subject: RE: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg and/or Hanover > > > I am trying to understand whether Saxe-Coburg and Hannover could have > referred to the same place. I have studied numerous historical maps > and have > not found any proof that this could be the case, but it is often > difficult > to compare maps that are of different scales and do not show the same > landmarks. > > Below is the documentation I have found regarding the origins of my > LANGE/LONG family. Based on this information , is it likely this > family came > from the Coburg area? > > 1844 Passenger & Immigration Lists: > - Port of Departure: Bremen > - Country of Origin: Deutschland > > 1847 Church records: > - Heinrich LANGE of Hannover, born 1803 > - Christina nee BRUNS of Hannover > - Married in Germany 1829 > > 1850 US Census: > - Henry Long (son) Birthplace: Germany > > 1860 US Census: > - Henry Long (son) Birthplace: Saxe Coburg > > 1870 US Census: > - Henry Long (son) Birthplace: Germany > > 1880 US Census: > - Henry Long (son) Birthplace: Hanover > - Father's birthplace: Hanover > - Mother's birthplace: Hanover > > 1900 US Census: > - Birthplace: Germany > - Father's birthplace: Germany > - Mother's birthplace: Germany > > Kay > [email protected] > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Rauck [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 5:03 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg > > > Kay, > > I would say yes, but I'd recommend you to make also use of the know > how > of the Thuringen list members of > [email protected] (mostly Enlish) > [email protected] (mostly German) > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kay Wilson [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 10:25 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg > > Is this the correct list for discussing Saxe-Coburg? > > Kay > [email protected] > > > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Sister or Brother, > Can you spare $10 dollars to support Rootsweb? > http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html#personal > > > > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html > to unsubscribe > > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html > to unsubscribe > > > > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Sister or Brother, > Can you spare $10 dollars to support Rootsweb? > http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html#personal > > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html > to unsubscribe > > > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html > to unsubscribe > >

Norm, Yes, I agree. I have their obits, but need to go back through the census records to get the ones I've overlooked. Thanks for your help, Kay [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: Norm B [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 9:09 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg and/or Hanover Kay, Often information that is lacking in an ancestor's documents will be found in the records of his siblings. You might want to research Frederick, Lewis, and William to see what that reveals. Norm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kay Wilson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 12:27 AM Subject: RE: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg and/or Hanover > Norm, > > Thanks for sharing your speculations. It does seem likely that, since Henry > was only 8 when he came to the US, he (or whoever talked to the census > taker) might have mistakenly assumed that he was born in Saxe-Coburg based > on conversations he remembered (or mis-remembered) hearing while he was > growing up. > > You raise an excellent point. With whom did Henry live after his parents > died? Heinrich, his father, died in 1847. In 1850 the census shows him > living with his mother Christina and his brothers and sister; their real > estate was valued at $200. Henry was 14; his older brothers, Frederick (20) > and Lewis (16) were listed as farmers. Frederick was married in 1851. Then > in 1855, when Henry was 19, his mother died; the youngest child was 10. Did > Frederick, as the oldest son, inherit the farm? In 1856 Frederick (26), > Henry (20) and their younger brother William (14) moved to IL. According to > William's obituary, William lived with his brother Fred after his parents > died. Fred was 15 when they came to the US, so he would surely have known > where the family came from. > > Your point about the church records being more accurate than those records > based on memories (census) is well taken. I should probably focus my search > on Hanover and put Saxe-Coburg on the back burner. But I do need to revisit > the 1860 census and see who those other families were that claimed to be > from Saxe-Coburg. > > Thank you for helping me think this through. > > Kay > [email protected] > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Norm B [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 10:03 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg and/or Hanover > > > Kay (not Kathy) :-), > > The census takers wrote whatever the head of household told them. The > census records of Henry Lange/Long apparently changed multiple times: > 1850-Germany, 1860-Saxe-Coburg, 1870-Germany, 1880-Hanover, > 1900-Germany. By the way, there was no country named "Germany" before > 1871, only weak alliances of Germanic nations. So we must "read his > mind" to know why he or someone gave those answers or which was > correct. Obviously you or I cannot do that. We can only speculate. > > How is this for speculation? > Henry Lange/Long was born about 1837 in Hanover, where his parents had > married in 1829. (Church records are generally more accurate than > census records.) The family may have moved briefly to Saxe-Coburg > before emigrating from there in 1844, or they may have joined an > emigrating group of friends/relatives from Saxe-Coburg on their way to > Bremen. His father died the following year (1845), so perhaps they > lived together with another family after that and the head of that > household told the 1850 census taker "Germany". His mother died about > 1855, so perhaps close families from Saxe-Coburg helped raise him. > Thus the 1860 census answer of "Saxe-Coburg" by the head-of-household. > By the 1870 census, he was 33; in his confusion, the generic "Germany" > seemed a safe answer. By 1880 he recognized and declared his true > birth place. By 1900, all former German nations were referred to with > the generic "Germany". > > What do you think? > Would anybody else care to speculate? > > Norm > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kay Wilson > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 2:25 AM > Subject: RE: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg and/or Hanover > > > Norm, > > Thank you for your response. This confirms what I have found in my > studies. > So the next question is, what might account for the > Hanover/Saxe-Coburg > discrepancy? > > Some related information: > > - Henry Lange/Long was 23 years old in 1860 when the census lists his > place > of birth as Saxe Coberg. He was only 8 when the family came to the US > from > Germany. I suppose an 8 year old might have been confused about his > birthplace. His father died in 1845, and his mother died in ~1855. > > - The 1860 census in the same county lists several other persons whose > members were born in Saxe-Coburg. I need to revisit that census and > see who > they were. > > - The obituaries of three of the Lange/Long brothers all state that > each was > born in Hanover. > > Kay (not Kathy :) > [email protected] > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Norm B [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 11:11 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg and/or Hanover > > > Kathy, > > In 1825, the ruling line of Saxe-Gotha died out. In early 1826, the > tiny Saxon duchies in the > Thuringian hills at the heart of Europe were re-arranged. Among them > emerged Saxe-Coburg-Gotha which was later associated with the British > royal family. > > This tiny state existed on the northern border of Bavaria, between > Bavaria and Saxe-Meiningen. It lay east of Frankfurt and north of > Nuremberg. To my knowledge, the British-ruled Kingdom of Hannover > never extended south of a point east of Kassel, about 60 miles north > of Coburg. > > From http://www.eurohistory.com/ernst.html : > The duchy of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha was formed by the joining of two > separate, neighboring, principalities, [Saxe and Gotha]. The > principality of Coburg had previously been inherited by members of the > Saxe-Altenburg family in the XVIIth century. The principality of Gotha > came under the family's control after the death of the last reigning > duke [in 1825]. His only daughter, Prince Louise of Saxe-Gotha, was > the wife of Duke Ernst I of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld. In exchange for > Gotha, a much more desirable principality, Duke Ernst gave away the > duchy of Saalfeld. From that date on, the family was known by the name > of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. > > Norm > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kay Wilson > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 11:28 PM > Subject: RE: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg and/or Hanover > > > I am trying to understand whether Saxe-Coburg and Hannover could have > referred to the same place. I have studied numerous historical maps > and have > not found any proof that this could be the case, but it is often > difficult > to compare maps that are of different scales and do not show the same > landmarks. > > Below is the documentation I have found regarding the origins of my > LANGE/LONG family. Based on this information , is it likely this > family came > from the Coburg area? > > 1844 Passenger & Immigration Lists: > - Port of Departure: Bremen > - Country of Origin: Deutschland > > 1847 Church records: > - Heinrich LANGE of Hannover, born 1803 > - Christina nee BRUNS of Hannover > - Married in Germany 1829 > > 1850 US Census: > - Henry Long (son) Birthplace: Germany > > 1860 US Census: > - Henry Long (son) Birthplace: Saxe Coburg > > 1870 US Census: > - Henry Long (son) Birthplace: Germany > > 1880 US Census: > - Henry Long (son) Birthplace: Hanover > - Father's birthplace: Hanover > - Mother's birthplace: Hanover > > 1900 US Census: > - Birthplace: Germany > - Father's birthplace: Germany > - Mother's birthplace: Germany > > Kay > [email protected] > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Rauck [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 5:03 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg > > > Kay, > > I would say yes, but I'd recommend you to make also use of the know > how > of the Thuringen list members of > [email protected] (mostly Enlish) > [email protected] (mostly German) > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kay Wilson [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 10:25 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [BAVARIA] Saxe-Coburg > > Is this the correct list for discussing Saxe-Coburg? > > Kay > [email protected] > > > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Sister or Brother, > Can you spare $10 dollars to support Rootsweb? > http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html#personal > > > > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html > to unsubscribe > > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html > to unsubscribe > > > > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Sister or Brother, > Can you spare $10 dollars to support Rootsweb? > http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html#personal > > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html > to unsubscribe > > > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html > to unsubscribe > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== Sister or Brother, Can you spare $10 dollars to support Rootsweb? http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html#personal

I am new to this list. I am researching my maternal gr gr gr grandmother Elizabeth Willrich. She was born on 21 Feb 1820 according to later documents but no village name was indicated. She had two brothers Michel and Peter Willrich. Is there any particular village anyone is researching that has come across the surname of Willrich? I am hoping that maybe it would be a starting point! thanks