[Wagner,Dittmar,Roedel,Thyroff,Jeschke,Hoffnizer, Rockelman,Mueller,Spoerl,Wachter] Hallo, I am Elfriede Johanna Christine (WAGNER) Sessions.I was born in Bamberg,Germany. My parents owned and operated a flower shop and greenhouses there. I would like to ask for help in locating living relatives and/or gravesites of my ancestors.My parents,Alfred WAGNER and Christine DITTMAR WAGNER are buried in Bamberg,Germany. My Father's line is: Franz August WAGNER,b.1865,Gollendorf,Schlesien Anna JESCHKE,b.1857,Lordorf,d.Muensterberg,Schlesien Franz WAGNER,b.1835,Gollendorf,Schlesien (?)PULZ Franz WAGNER,b.Gollendorf Renate HOFFNIZER ++++++++ My Mother's line is: Karl DITTMAR,b 1863,Schwarzenbach a.Wald,d.1927,Bamberg Johanna ROEDEL,b.1867,Helmsbrechts,Ger. Wilhelm Johann Niklaus DITTMAR,b.1834,Schw.a Wald Frederica Charlotte Sophie THYROFF,b.1837,Schw.a.Wald Heinrich DITTMAR,b.1804 Johanna Catharina SPOERL,b.1803 Friedrich Wilhelm THYROFF,b.1801 Eva Rosina ROCKELMAN,b.1802 Johann Adam ROEDEL,b.1835,Schw.a.Wald Christine (?),b.1837,Helmbrechts Andreas MUELLER Katharina Henriette WACHTER If you have any connection to (or any information concerning) any of my ancestors,please answer me on this list or to our e-mail address (in German or English): [email protected] Blessings,Elfriede(Wagner)Sessions ===== ******************************************* Benjamin Street Sessions [email protected] ******************************************* __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com

In a message dated 3/23/2003 12:41:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > Kann mir hier vielleicht mal jemand was über den Namen Welzhofer erzählen? > Vielleicht auch über Welzhofen Bable Fish translates this to: Me here perhaps times can someone which over the name Welzhofer tell? Perhaps also over Welzhofen I believe they are asking if anyone has information for the name Welzhofer or Welzhofen. Ann

Kann mir hier vielleicht mal jemand was über den Namen Welzhofer erzählen? Vielleicht auch über Welzhofen

Liebe Familienforscher, es steht zwar auf der Veranstaltungsseite des BLF, aber ich möchte trotzdem darauf hinweisen: Am 10.04.2003 [Donnerstag] um 18:00 Uhr (Beginn des Vortrags um 18:30 Uhr) findet ein Vortrag von Herrn Oberstudiendirektor a. D. Helmut Hilz, Siegsdorf im Haus des "Deutschen Ostens" Am Lilienberg 5 D-81669 München statt. Das Thema orientiert sich an seinem 2001 erschienenen Buch und lautet: "Spiegelungen der Geschichte im Schicksal bayerischer Wald-Glashütten". In diesem Zusammenhang möchte ich alle, die die Familie Hilz unter ihren Vorfahren haben, wegen der Vervollständigung der Nachfahrenliste Hilz um eine kurze Kontaktaufnahme mit mir bitten. Mit freundlichen Grüßen Dr. Michael Rauck

Hello D. (?) you may send me that file - I'll give it a try ... Mattias email: [email protected] Olson wrote: > > I have been able to obtain a photocopy of a page from the family book from the parish of Baldersheim, Bavaria. But, I am having a difficult time decyphering the handwriting for the parents of the husband and wife listed. If anyone if familiar with the old style German handwriting and could give me a hand interpreting the names of these individuals, I would appreciate it. The husband is Johann Georg HOOS and his wife is Margaretha THOMA. I believe their respective fathers are Rudolf HOOS and Adam THOMA, but the names of the mothers are very difficult to read. It appears as if each of the mothers has the same first name. The wife's mother's surname is LANGER, but the husband's mother's surname is difficult to determine, although it appears to be DOTTELBACHER. I checked the IGI to see if that was a legitimate surname, but there isn't even anything close to it there. I have tried to attach the document to this e-mail, but it is too large for the list, so if anyone woul! d ! > like to try their hand at decyphering it, please let me know and I can send it directly to you. Thanks in advance! > > D. Olson >

Hello, I might give it a try if you email it to me [email protected] as an attachment (jpg, tif, bmp etc.). I guess you refer to Baldersheim in the Ochsenfurter Gau? My Bergold are from the neighbour village of Burgerroth, and I have an Adam Thoma in Burgerroth (his daughter Eva born there in 1682). Maybe not the same person, but a related one. I do not have a wife's name for Adam. Michael -----Original Message----- From: Olson [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 5:27 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [BAVARIA] handwriting help I have been able to obtain a photocopy of a page from the family book from the parish of Baldersheim, Bavaria. But, I am having a difficult time decyphering the handwriting for the parents of the husband and wife listed. If anyone if familiar with the old style German handwriting and could give me a hand interpreting the names of these individuals, I would appreciate it. The husband is Johann Georg HOOS and his wife is Margaretha THOMA. I believe their respective fathers are Rudolf HOOS and Adam THOMA, but the names of the mothers are very difficult to read. It appears as if each of the mothers has the same first name. The wife's mother's surname is LANGER, but the husband's mother's surname is difficult to determine, although it appears to be DOTTELBACHER. I checked the IGI to see if that was a legitimate surname, but there isn't even anything close to it there. I have tried to attach the document to this e-mail, but it is too large for the list, so if anyone would ! like to try their hand at decyphering it, please let me know and I can send it directly to you. Thanks in advance! D. Olson ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html to unsubscribe

i might be able to help you, i'm currently deciphering some of the letters my paternal grandfather wrote to my Oma. let me know how i can help.

I have been able to obtain a photocopy of a page from the family book from the parish of Baldersheim, Bavaria. But, I am having a difficult time decyphering the handwriting for the parents of the husband and wife listed. If anyone if familiar with the old style German handwriting and could give me a hand interpreting the names of these individuals, I would appreciate it. The husband is Johann Georg HOOS and his wife is Margaretha THOMA. I believe their respective fathers are Rudolf HOOS and Adam THOMA, but the names of the mothers are very difficult to read. It appears as if each of the mothers has the same first name. The wife's mother's surname is LANGER, but the husband's mother's surname is difficult to determine, although it appears to be DOTTELBACHER. I checked the IGI to see if that was a legitimate surname, but there isn't even anything close to it there. I have tried to attach the document to this e-mail, but it is too large for the list, so if anyone would ! like to try their hand at decyphering it, please let me know and I can send it directly to you. Thanks in advance! D. Olson

This is formal notice from Rootsweb today. You know me better since I do NOT tolerate such politics on the lists I administer. The rules are still enforced. No warnings on list at all. First removal is a first notice to the person. Second time is on reject list indefinitely. So let's keep the lists good as before. NO politics. Thank you, David Samuelsen - list admin of this list. The Rootsweb Notice: It is period of intense political times when emotions and opinions will run high in many directions. The simple issue is that RootsWeb is for genealogical research and not for political discussions. Equivalent political situations have been known to cause significant disturbances and needed intervention by admins and occasionally by staff. RootsWeb asks all admins to reinforce where necessary to their subscribers the basis of the mailing lists and their provision by RootsWeb to users, and, where necessary, take reasonable actions to maintain the focus of mailing lists. Please be firm but nice. Good luck, we will all need it. RootsWeb cannot and will not be supportive of list administrators who encourage political discussions on mailing lists. On this list I will leave Megan to set the boundaries and to wield her very large fly-swat for the range of discussion about control mechanisms and tolerances. RootsWeb staff

Hi, My gr grandfather was Adam Fries m.ca 1860 Katarinae/Catharine Ehrhard or Ehrhardt. Their first child was my grandmother Anna b. 1862, m. Franciscus/Frank Burkhard abt. 1882 and they emmigrated to the USA. Their first surving child was my mother, Anna b. 1885 in NJ. Grandma's brother Franciscus/Frank Fries b.1864 in Erfweiler m. 1st Barbara Hellferich b. 1874 bapt Jun 1874 Rom.Kath., Dahn,Pfalz,Bayern. I am trying to find out if my gt grandmother was the Catherine Ehrhardt b.20 Feb 1840 to Joannis Adami Ehrhardt & Margarethae Riesbeck. I have looked at some of the Mormon films and researched their IGI but can't make a firm determination. I wrote to a distant cousin and used altavista for translation, but she never answered. Claire in Howell,New Jersey,USA

Hello everyone! I was looking through my mother's old collection of Catholic holycards and realized that she had several that were given as rememberances of the first Mass that newly ordained priests celebrated. I wondered if this kind of information might be helpful for others, so I decided to go through the cards and send the names and dates to the list. Perhaps some of these men are related to your ancestors. Most of the towns/cities mentioned are in the Oberpfalz/Bavaria. HOLZ, Joh. Bapt. ~ celebrated his first Mass in the parish church of Wiesenfelden, July 18, 1911. BAUER, Johann ~ first Mass in the parish church of Luhe, July 16, 1907. STANGL, Johann ~ first Mass in the parish church of Windischeschenbach, June 21, 1899. WIEDL, Lorenz ~ first Mass in the parish church of Windischeschenbach, May 18, 1892. BUSCH, Joh. B. ~ first Mass in the parish church of Kirchenpingarten, June 8, 1903. PONNATH, Lorenz ~ first Mass in the parish church of Stadt- Kemnath, June 13, 1900. BERGLER (?), Alfons ~ first Mass in the parish church of Windischeschenbach, July 15, 1912. MAERKL, P. Albert ~ of the Augustinian Order ~ first Mass in the pilgrimage church at Fuchsmühl, August 9, 1903. EBNER, Ernst ~ first Mass in the parish church in Achslach, July 16, 1907. I have other cards showing him as assistant pastor at Windischeschenbach in 1909. In addition to these cards, there was a card to remember August BERTELT, the assistant pastor of the parish church in Windischeschenbach in 1908. Hope this helps someone. Mary Ann Add Your Mystery Photos: Photographs from the Past http://photographsfromthepast.com

a) did you check the death index, whether all three survived? b) Johannes has become a standard surname (in the 18th century) which has given to every son. c) In Oberpfalz th son, who should get the farm, got the name Johannes. In fact, nobody could know, if the first son survived. Therefore they baptisted every son to "Johannes". A lot of short names came up: Hannes, Hans, Johann, ... Please see http://makie.de/KIENING/name.htm#Vornamen A very short translation should help you: Die Bräuche bei der Verwendung der Vornamen sind regional sehr unterschiedlich: Vornamen in Oberbayern (surnames in ...) In einer Geschwisterreihe wurde hier im Raum München jeder Vorname nur einmal vergeben. (In the area of Munich each surname was used only once for the brothers and sisters). Tritt bei Geschwistern der gleiche Vorname zum zweiten Mal auf, kann man sicher sein, daß das ältere Kind mit dem gleichen Vornamen bereits gestorben ist. (If the same surname came again in a family, you can be s ure, that the elder child was died.) Die Landbevölkerung taufte nur mit einem Vornamen. Doppelnamen wie Johann Georg sind selten. Sie kommen fast nur bei Zuwanderern und Bildungsbeflissenen vor. Eine Ausnahme ist die Maria -Anna. Vornamen in der Oberpfalz (surnames in ...) Die Datensammlung enthält eine größere Menge Personen in der mittleren Oberpfalz. Hier gelten ganz andere Bräuche: (in the Oberpfalz there have been special customs:) Die Buben wurden stets Hans und die Mädchen bevorzugt Gretl oder Maria getauft. (The boys got always the name "Hans", and the girls "Gretl" or "Maria" were prefered.) Gleiche Vornamen in der Geschwisterreihe sind also die Regel und lassen keinesfalls darauf schließen, daß das gleichnamige ältere Geschwister schon gestorben ist. (You cannot conclude from the same surname for the brothers and sisters, that the elder brother or sister with the same name had been died.) Der Brauch hat seinen Grund: (The reason is:) Der älteste Sohn wird Hans gerufen und nimmt als künftiger Hoferbe eine Sonderstellung in der Geschwisterreihe ein. (The eldest son is called Hans and has a special status because he is the future farm heir.) Bei der hohen Kindersterblichkeit konnte man aber nicht mit dem Überleben des Erstgeborenen rechnen. (Because of the high death rate of children, ...) Deshalb wurden auch die nachgeborenen Söhne Hans getauft. (Therefore the later born sons would be named also Hans.) Die Frage, wie die Eltern die Kinder riefen, beantworten alte Oberpfälzer so: Das ist ganz einfach, der erste Sohn ist der Hans, der zweite der Johann, der dritte der Hannes, dann kommen (Hans-)Georg, (Hans-)Michael usw. Weitere Möglichkeiten sind Johann-Baptist und Johann-Nepomuk. Fällt der als Hoferbe bevorzugte erste Hans durch Tod, Wegzug oder aus einem anderen Grund aus, erhält der nächste Sohn den Rufnamen Hans und die damit verbundene Bevorzugung. Das ist ohne weiteres möglich, da Hans stets in den Taufnamen enthalten war. Für den Familienforscher ist es fast unmöglich, einen Hans-Taufeintrag einem Heiratseintrag oder einem Sterbeeintrag zuzuordnen. Der zweite Vorname im Taufeintrag oder Heiratseintrag ist wenig nützlich, denn Doppelvornamen wurden beliebig einzeln verwendet. Auch Altersangaben in Sterbeeinträgen weichen häufig sehr vom wirklichen Alter ab. > > this has been discussed many times, and I hate to bring it up again, I had 3 > brothers all coming from Germany at the same time, with different dates of > birth, different wives and different children, but all had the same name > Johannes Georg Kibler, explanations pls > > ______________________________ >

Monika, Thank you for that interesting information on how Oberpfaelzers chose first names for their children. A "typo" may have confused some of the listmembers. The German text you enclosed discusses "Vornamen". That translates, as you know, to "first names" (meaning all but the last name or surname = "Nachname" or "Familienname" in German), which is the subject of the inquiry. I also found the untranslated part of your message of great interest. Roughly: "The question of what the parents actually called the children (all with a first name Johannes), is answered by old Oberpfälzers : It is quite simple. The first son is called Hans, the second is called Johann, the third is Hannes, then comes (Hans - )Georg, (Hans - )Michael, etc . Further possibilities are Johann-Baptists and Johann-Nepomuk. The legal order of inheritance proceeds from the first son, named Hans. In the case of his death, moving away, or another reason, the next son preferred for inheritance is the one that gets the name Hans connected with a hyphenated baptism name. That makes inheritance possible without further legal action, since Hans is contained in the first name. For the family-researcher, it is almost impossible to correctly associate a Hans in a baptism entry with the corresponding marriage entry or death entry. The middle name in the baptism entry or marriage entry is of little use because first and second names were used together or separately, at will. Age-statements in death-entries frequently deviate very much from the real age." The above is subject to corrections, but I think it is the gist of it. Norm ----- Original Message ----- From: Monika Droeger To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 6:47 AM Subject: [BAVARIA] AW: naming process a) did you check the death index, whether all three survived? b) Johannes has become a standard surname (in the 18th century) which has given to every son. c) In Oberpfalz th son, who should get the farm, got the name Johannes. In fact, nobody could know, if the first son survived. Therefore they baptisted every son to "Johannes". A lot of short names came up: Hannes, Hans, Johann, ... Please see http://makie.de/KIENING/name.htm#Vornamen A very short translation should help you: Die Bräuche bei der Verwendung der Vornamen sind regional sehr unterschiedlich: Vornamen in Oberbayern (surnames in ...) In einer Geschwisterreihe wurde hier im Raum München jeder Vorname nur einmal vergeben. (In the area of Munich each surname was used only once for the brothers and sisters). Tritt bei Geschwistern der gleiche Vorname zum zweiten Mal auf, kann man sicher sein, daß das ältere Kind mit dem gleichen Vornamen bereits gestorben ist. (If the same surname came again in a family, you can be s ure, that the elder child was died.) Die Landbevölkerung taufte nur mit einem Vornamen. Doppelnamen wie Johann Georg sind selten. Sie kommen fast nur bei Zuwanderern und Bildungsbeflissenen vor. Eine Ausnahme ist die Maria -Anna. Vornamen in der Oberpfalz (surnames in ...) Die Datensammlung enthält eine größere Menge Personen in der mittleren Oberpfalz. Hier gelten ganz andere Bräuche: (in the Oberpfalz there have been special customs:) Die Buben wurden stets Hans und die Mädchen bevorzugt Gretl oder Maria getauft. (The boys got always the name "Hans", and the girls "Gretl" or "Maria" were prefered.) Gleiche Vornamen in der Geschwisterreihe sind also die Regel und lassen keinesfalls darauf schließen, daß das gleichnamige ältere Geschwister schon gestorben ist. (You cannot conclude from the same surname for the brothers and sisters, that the elder brother or sister with the same name had been died.) Der Brauch hat seinen Grund: (The reason is:) Der älteste Sohn wird Hans gerufen und nimmt als künftiger Hoferbe eine Sonderstellung in der Geschwisterreihe ein. (The eldest son is called Hans and has a special status because he is the future farm heir.) Bei der hohen Kindersterblichkeit konnte man aber nicht mit dem Überleben des Erstgeborenen rechnen. (Because of the high death rate of children, ...) Deshalb wurden auch die nachgeborenen Söhne Hans getauft. (Therefore the later born sons would be named also Hans.) Die Frage, wie die Eltern die Kinder riefen, beantworten alte Oberpfälzer so: Das ist ganz einfach, der erste Sohn ist der Hans, der zweite der Johann, der dritte der Hannes, dann kommen (Hans-)Georg, (Hans-)Michael usw. Weitere Möglichkeiten sind Johann-Baptist und Johann-Nepomuk. Fällt der als Hoferbe bevorzugte erste Hans durch Tod, Wegzug oder aus einem anderen Grund aus, erhält der nächste Sohn den Rufnamen Hans und die damit verbundene Bevorzugung. Das ist ohne weiteres möglich, da Hans stets in den Taufnamen enthalten war. Für den Familienforscher ist es fast unmöglich, einen Hans-Taufeintrag einem Heiratseintrag oder einem Sterbeeintrag zuzuordnen. Der zweite Vorname im Taufeintrag oder Heiratseintrag ist wenig nützlich, denn Doppelvornamen wurden beliebig einzeln verwendet. Auch Altersangaben in Sterbeeinträgen weichen häufig sehr vom wirklichen Alter ab. > > this has been discussed many times, and I hate to bring it up again, I had 3 > brothers all coming from Germany at the same time, with different dates of > birth, different wives and different children, but all had the same name > Johannes Georg Kibler, explanations pls > > ______________________________ > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== Sister or Brother, Can you spare $10 dollars to support Rootsweb? http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html#personal

In a message dated 3/9/2003 11:06:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > I live in Georgia, USA and I'm just beginning my research in Bavaria, > Germany on George (or Jacob) PETERMAN b. c1716 Bavaria, Germany; d. 7 Oct > 1791 DE, USA; m. Betia SPRINGER c1734 Bavaria. My PETERMAN line eventually > settled in Taylor Co, GA, USA. Questions: > > Any suggestions as to how I should begin my search for this PETERMAN line > in Bavaria? > > Are there other PETERMAN researchers on this mailing list? > Hello Donna: As mentioned is a previous reply, LDS would be a good source, especially the people search at the on-line site. Also, you can check the Rootsweb Mailing/Surname lists to see if anyone else is researching the family. You will have to determine the town in Bavaria where the family came from before you can start researching the German records. Start with the latest info you have, and work backwards in time. Some records that might mention the town are the ship passenger lists and naturalization records (if you can find them for that early period), marriage, death/obituary, church and cemetery records. The local historical or genealogical society might also be a good source, as they sometimes have information about the early settlers in an area. If there is a possibility that family members fought in the Revolutionary War, those records might be helpful. Records are unfortunately sketchy for that early period, but your local Family History Center might have a copy of the book "Source - A Guidebook of American Genealogy," which contains information about available research sources for this early period of immigration. I'm sure others on the list will have more suggestions to assist you in your research. Good luck with your search. Paul C. Miller

I live in Georgia, USA and I'm just beginning my research in Bavaria, Germany on George (or Jacob) PETERMAN b. c1716 Bavaria, Germany; d. 7 Oct 1791 DE, USA; m. Betia SPRINGER c1734 Bavaria. My PETERMAN line eventually settled in Taylor Co, GA, USA. Questions: Any suggestions as to how I should begin my search for this PETERMAN line in Bavaria? Are there other PETERMAN researchers on this mailing list? I understand that Bavaria is in the South German Hills. What should be my next step in searching for my particular PETERMAN family? Donna Wall Georgia, USA

The LDS Library at your near Branch or Ward of the Church or direct in Salt Lake City would be a good place to start. Good luck. ARK

this has been discussed many times, and I hate to bring it up again, I had 3 brothers all coming from Germany at the same time, with different dates of birth, different wives and different children, but all had the same name Johannes Georg Kibler, explanations pls

I researching Adam Weidner, born 1825 in Hornbach, Bavaria who served in the Royal Bavarian Army from 1847-1853. Does anyone know of any online sites? Susan Westhoff [email protected]

The following was transcribed for the Bklyn Info Pages http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~blkyn/Bklyn.Info.Page.html WWII Casualties http://www.archives.gov/research_room/arc/index.html and scroll to World War II Army and Army Air Force Casualty List or World War II Navy Marine and Coast Guard Casualty List

The following was transcribed for the Bklyn Info Pages http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~blkyn/Bklyn.Info.Page.html http://eagle.brooklynpubliclibrary.org/ <A HREF="http://eagle.brooklynpubliclibrary.org/">Brooklyn Daily Eagle Online (1841-1902), The Br…</A>