>From Alija came a copy of an earlier Bav-Anc post, which I thought very appropriate the current "permission to emigrate" discussion, and as it fit my ongoing document translation project, I put it on that website, at http://members.tripod.com/ronkz/EmigrationProcedure.htm Much of the translation work I had requested is now completed; that includes http://members.tripod.com/ronkz/1846migrationZfamily.htm showing the legal paperwork certainly filed by so many emigrants at that time (1846), and ties right in with the "permission to emigrate" subject. Now, as to my document translations project, a couple of pages remain unassigned, and I hope for some volunteers for those ??????? They are: 6 images in one document at http://members.tripod.com/ronkz/10feb1846jmz.htm and 2 of 4 independent images at http://members.tripod.com/ronkz/FourOthers.htm If anyone would tackle any of those, it would be of great help indeed. The work already completed (most) or "assigned" (pending) can be found under: http://members.tripod.com/ronkz/assigned.htm There you will see some outstanding work and some interesting results - including some new discoveries probably of most interest to those connected to my Zellhoefer tree, but there is much to learn there for anyone. Much is in both German and English, and the Intelligenz Blatt (from which the "funny" was found last week) has been transcribed in German, posted in downloadable *.DOC format. My deepest gratitude goes to all who produced such outstanding work and gave so much of their valuable time to my little project. Without Bav-Anc it's doubtful we'd have ever learned so much - 'tis a super group indeed! enjoy "RonKZ" Ron Klotz-Zellhoefer Wisconsin>Arizona [email protected] http://ronkz.tripod.com (just for this project) http://www.zelltree.com

I just found out who my ggg grandparent's are on my mother's father's side of the family. I find them on the 1860 Census for Philadelphia, Pa. Ludwig NEFF (b. 1810 in Bavaria) and his wife, Caroline (b. 1815 in Bavaria) had 4 children according to the census: Lewis (b. 1836), Michael (b. May 1845), Magdelena (b. 1848), and Josephine (b. 1853) - all the children were born in Philadelphia. Neither Ludwig or Caroline appear on the 1870 census. Michael is the only one I have been able to find in later census reports. He is my gg grandfather. I'm hoping someone on this list will recognize the names LUDWIG NEFF and his wife, CAROLINE. Barbara in Wilmington, NC "I've never met a tombstone I couldn't relate to....."

Bill, Have you checked http://www.horlacher.org/germany/bavaria/bavkl.htm There is a Klingelmühle and two Klingenmühle. http://www.horlacher.org/germany/bavaria/bavl.htm Two Lauterhof, one Lauterhofen. Good luck, Michael -----Original Message----- From: Bill Fleckenstein [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 5:14 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [BAV-ANC] Town Names Does anyone know the location of Klingenmill or Lauterhof in Bavaria ? Can't find them in the Town Locator Bill

Hi, Also if you go to google.com you can put in for German postal code and there are several sources if you have the address. Claire in Howell, Nj Frank Hummel wrote: > > Hi: > New to the list and am trying to find the zip code for Landshut. > I understand that their are some of my HUMMEL line living there. > Willing to share information. > Thanks a bunch. > Frank Hummel > Researching HUMMEL, CONRAD, HASSINGER, SNELLBAKER, PEACOCK. > Visit my web site. > http://BumeleBee.Hummel.org > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Sister or Brother, > Can you spare $10 dollars to support Rootsweb? > http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html#personal

Hi, Go to---dastelefonbuch.de click on English , put in name & town. Claire in Howell, New Jersey, USA Frank Hummel wrote: > > Hi: > New to the list and am trying to find the zip code for Landshut. > I understand that their are some of my HUMMEL line living there. > Willing to share information. > Thanks a bunch. > Frank Hummel > Researching HUMMEL, CONRAD, HASSINGER, SNELLBAKER, PEACOCK. > Visit my web site. > http://BumeleBee.Hummel.org > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Sister or Brother, > Can you spare $10 dollars to support Rootsweb? > http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html#personal

Hi: New to the list and am trying to find the zip code for Landshut. I understand that their are some of my HUMMEL line living there. Willing to share information. Thanks a bunch. Frank Hummel Researching HUMMEL, CONRAD, HASSINGER, SNELLBAKER, PEACOCK. Visit my web site. http://BumeleBee.Hummel.org

Dear Norm, I am writing in response to your helpful reply of 7/19 to my call for help in finding info on my Nikol family. I had written in German to one of the 3 Nikols you mentioned - Herbert - but got no reply. I probably made a mistake by sending along a family chart to be filled out. Any thoughts on that? The person who contacted Herbert by phone before I wrote said he spoke no English but that his daughter was studying it in school. I plan now to write to all three and see if I can make contact. My German is poor but think I can get help again in translating. I would appreciate your sending me the addresses of both the Diocesan Archive in Bamberg and the Staatsarchiv in Bamberg. Does the latter charge for lookups for the emigration request documents? Thank you for your help. Dorothy Dorothy J. Gard [email protected] Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.

Anyone researching Leithauser in the NY and NY City area? If so please e-mail me off list to compare notes. Gail Jorgensen

Ich habe ein sehr interessantes Dokument aus dem "Ascher Archiv" eingescannt, das "Hausbuch von Niederreuth Kreis Asch", darin sind alle Häuser in der Zeit von ca. 1600 bis 1945 aufgeführt. (Bewohner und Ereignisse, Abschrift einer Orts-Chronik.) In den Pdf-files ist suchen möglich!! I have scanned a very interesting document from the "Archiv Asch", where the names from people of all houses in "Niederreuth" near Asch are written , for the time between 1600 and 1945. The Pdf-files are searchable!! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ascherarchiv/files/Niederreuth%20Hausbuch/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ascherarchiv2/files/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ascherarchiv3/files/ ............................................................................ ............................................................................ .................................. Das Einwohner-Verzeichnis Asch 1786 ist jetzt auch als durchsuchbares Pdf-File abgelegt. The Inhabitant listing "Asch 1786" is now as searchable pdf-file. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Rogler/files/Asch%201786%20/ Mit freundlichen Grüßen / regards, Paul Rogler Marienstr. 9 D-95100 Selb Tel. +49 (0) 9287 99410 mailto: [email protected] ICQ: 107723324 MSN-Messanger: [email protected] Fax: +49 (0) 9287 994157

JUST IN FROM A TRANSLATOR for http://ronkz.tripod.com Excerpted from: Königlich Bayerischen "Intelligenz-Blatt" für Mittelfranken [Royal Bavarian magazin called "Intelligenz-Blatt" from Middle Franconia] Nr. 25, Ansbach, Saturday, March 28, 1846 page Nr. 584 Private Announcement: Original German text: Mein Mann der Bauer KASPAR BAUERREIS, von hier [Markt Bergel], gebürtig aus Schnodsenbach (?), steht schon mehrere Wochen ohne alle Berufsgeschäfte außerhalb herum, nimmt bei wem er kann Geld auf, und macht Schulden. Da ich nun wegen dieses liederlichen Lebenswandels auf die Ehescheidung angetragen habe, so warne ich hiermit Jedermann, denselben etwas zu kreditieren, indem ich von nun an keine Zahlung mehr für ihn leiste. Markt Bergel, den 20. März 1846 Apollonia Bauerreis, geborene Stiegler. Translation: My husband, the farmer KASPAR BAUERREIS, living in Markt Bergel, born in Schnodsenbach (?), since a couple of weeks "is standing around outside" without any and all professional business, borrows money from whoever he can, and incurs debts. Due to this dissolute mode of conduct I applied for divorce, so accordingly here I warn everybody, to lend money to him, because from now on I will no longer pay anything for him. Markt Bergel, March 20, 1846 Apollonia Bauerreis, born Stiegler. SO LIFE AND PEOPLE ARE NOT SO DIFFERENT TODAY! AND MAYBE SUCH REMOVES SOME OF THE TRANSLATION DRUDGERY! RonKZ

Norm, Thanks for the response. This finally has helped me to pinpoint the location and gives me some idea of where to begin looking for information. I looked up the Oberdiebach website and it does include pictures of Winzberg. I've also sent an email to the institut.bv-pfalz.de and will see if I can get any information that way. If not I'll see if I can find out anything through the church records. Thanks again, Emma >Emma, > >I find a Winzberg that is now part of Oberdiebach (zipcode 55413) in >the state of Rheinland-Pfalz, part of which used to be Bavarian. For >general info on the area and suggestions of where to write for >records, go to >http://bavariafaqs.homestead.com/RheinlandPfalz.html . >Another recommended source for genealogy information is the Pfalz >RootsWeb Genealogy Mail List at >http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/PFALZ.html . > >Norm > -- "Peace starts with a smile"

I am new to the list and am researching SCHAEFER, STRAUB, KUNZMAN and HUBER from Germany. My great, great grandfather is/was Lorenz (Lawrence) Schaefer. On the death certificate of his daughter, his name is spelled LAURENCE. The church records at St. Alphonsus in Baltimore, MD has it as LORENZ and states that he was from Burgstadt, Bavaria. LORENZ came to the US about 1847 at the age of about 22 or 23. I tend to think that the church records spelling of LORENZ is probably more likely to be correct, because it was a German speaking congregation and the records were written in German. When I look at a map, I see two possibilities for Burgstadt: If the records are correct, there is a Burgstadt ---about SW of Wursburg and SE of Darmstadt or Burstadt---near Worms, between Darmstadt and Mannheim. I'm sure he must have been christened as a baby, are there still records from the early 1800's in these small German towns and how would I go about obtaining them? Where would be the most likely port for him to have departed from? Any and all help or suggestions will be gratefully accepted. Carole in CA

There have been several posts concerning Evangelical church records in Bavaria recently. My greatgrandmother, Carolina Marsch, was born March 10, 1849, in Winzberg, Germany. Other then the fact that it is located in the northern part of the wine producing area I have been able to find out very little about this village. Does anyone know if there is a church in that area that I might contact to see if family records would be available? It is located in the Mitteirhein region of Germany. Emma -- "Peace starts with a smile" Take time to worship Hartford Christian Church http://www.hartford-christian-church.net.tc Follow the action Spencerville H.S. track & field & cross country http://www2.wcoil.com/~ecplei

Emma, I find a Winzberg that is now part of Oberdiebach (zipcode 55413) in the state of Rheinland-Pfalz, part of which used to be Bavarian. For general info on the area and suggestions of where to write for records, go to http://bavariafaqs.homestead.com/RheinlandPfalz.html . Another recommended source for genealogy information is the Pfalz RootsWeb Genealogy Mail List at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/PFALZ.html . Norm ----- Original Message ----- From: Emma Pleiman To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 2:54 PM Subject: [BAVARIA] Evangelical Churches Records - Winzberg There have been several posts concerning Evangelical church records in Bavaria recently. My greatgrandmother, Carolina Marsch, was born March 10, 1849, in Winzberg, Germany. Other then the fact that it is located in the northern part of the wine producing area I have been able to find out very little about this village. Does anyone know if there is a church in that area that I might contact to see if family records would be available? It is located in the Mitteirhein region of Germany. Emma

Dorothy, Thanks to your hint about Hollfeld, I was able to find your Höfen/Hoefen (Postal code 96142) among more than 20 others on the online map. See http://makeashorterlink.com/?B3CD21255 A search of the phone book reveals 3 Nikol listings. Nikol Alfred (0 92 74) 5 70 Josef-Otto-Kolb-Str. 4, 96142 Hollfeld Nikol Hans (0 92 74) 13 65 Kainach 20, 96142 Hollfeld Nikol Herbert (0 92 74) 14 70 Höfen 16, 96142 Hollfeld Are these the ones that you wrote to? Did you write in German? If not, you should on this second try. Do you need help with translating? A hit there can give you a lot of information at little cost. A second possibility is to write to the Diocesan Archive in Bamberg for birth/baptism records. They charge for their services. For emigration records, look to the Staatsarchiv in Bamberg. They may have the emigration request documents. If you don't already have the contact information for them, let us know. Norm ----- Original Message ----- From: Dorothy J. Gard To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 10:37 AM Subject: [BAVARIA] NIKOL family in Hoefen I've been following all the letters concerning the Bamberg Archives and have decided to try again asking for help in finding a solution to my "brickwall", I am descended from Elizabeth NIKOL who according to the 1900 census came from Germany in1892. A sister Barbara definitely came through Baltimore in 1888 and one of her children said the father John NIKOL brought both girls and their brother over in 1888. The story goes that he returned home, wanted to bring the rest of the family over but his wife would not come so they stayed in Germany. The hometown was Hofen (with an umlaut) in Oberfranken between Bamberg and Bayreuth. They were Catholic and I believe went to church in Hollfeld. The sister said she was born in Hollfeld. Someone told me there were only 14 houses now in Hoefen and 2 Nikol names still existed. I wrote them several years ago but never received an answer. Now I'd like to start my search again. I did check some Hollfeld church records from Mormon film but couldn't find the names I was searching for (my German script reading is not that good). According to records here, Elizabeth was born in 1872 and died in PA in 1906 I have searched immigration records and found only Barbara in 1888 and her name was spelled Nichol. Can someone help me with how best to proceed? I will be so grateful. Dorothy J. Gard [email protected] Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html to unsubscribe

Gail, I believe you read the gravestone correctly. But gravestones are not known for their great accuracy. They are carved many years after the person's birth, written by others, and spelled as best they could remember. When you get home, look over the list of all Bavarian towns that begin with "O" at http://bavariangenealogy.com/bh/orteo.htm . Go down the list to find which is likely yours. You will see only four towns starting with "Oben". They are Obenbrunn G Gunzenhausen Obending G Tann Obenhausen G Buch Obenhub G Reut [The "G Xxxx" stands for 'Gemeinde Xxxx", which is the larger town nearby that provides government services for the first-named village.] A search for "look-alike" town names, using "Obe*burg" as the model, yields only Obergünzburg and Obernburg. Searching with "Obe*berg" gives more, but none close to "Obenberg". The best candidate seems to be: Obernburg (a Main) County : | | +---- Miltenberg {MIL} RegBez : | +------- Unterfranken Land : +--------- Bayern ZIP : 63785 Popul : 7486 Locat : 49d51m N 9d09m E Norm B. ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 10:46 AM Subject: Re: Re: [BAVARIA] Ludwig or Zapp - Obenburg Bayern Norm, I copied the spelling exactly as it was written on the tombstone. Could it be that Obenburg is the German spelling for either Obernburg or Oberburg? And yes he was catholic. Would I then perhaps try church records in the 2 Obernburgs and the 2 Oberburgs? Do you know where I need to go to find out where to search Catholic records? Thanks for writing? Gail

LaVerne Thanks for writing. I will check the link when I get back home next week. Right now I only have e-mail access :( I know that they were Catholic as they are in a Catholic cemetery and unless things were not as I thought them to be, at that time only Catholics could be buried in a catholic cemetery. I will have to go and look later at the pictures that I took of the headstone, but I think that it was written as Oberburg as one word and bayern as another. This is so much like a puzzle, isnt it? Gail > > From: [email protected] > Date: 2003/07/19 Sat AM 11:23:48 EDT > To: [email protected] > Subject: [BAVARIA] Oberbayern, Oberpfalz, Oberfranken > > Hi, Gail, > <A HREF="http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bavaria/counties.htm">Bavarian counties/Landkreise</A> <A HREF="http://www.bayern.de/HDBG/gemeind/geortw.htm">Bayern towns W</A> <A HREF="http://bavariangenealogy.com/bh/places.html">Bavarian Places</A> <A HREF="http://www.lkan-elkb.de"> > Ev-Luth.Church in Bavaria</A> <A HREF="http://www.regierung.oberfranken.bayern.de/index.htm">Oberfranken</A> > > Here are a few bookmarks for you to check. It may be that your "town" name is > really an area, such as Oberpfalz, Oberbayern, Obergranken. Don't assume that > all Bavarians are Catholic. Many are Protestant. > > LaVerne > > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html > to unsubscribe > >

Norm I copied the spelling exactly as it was written on the tombstone. Could it be that Obenburg is the German spelling for either Obernburg or Oberburg? And yes he was catholic. Would I then perhaps try church records in the 2 Obernburgs and the 2 Oberburgs? Do you know where I need to go to find out where to search Catholic records? Thanks for writing? Gail > > From: "Norm B" <[email protected]> > Date: 2003/07/19 Sat AM 02:44:35 EDT > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [BAVARIA] Ludwig or Zapp - Obenburg Bayern > > > His name in Germany would have been either Alois Ludwig or Aloysius > Ludwig and his date of birth was 7 Marz 1825 and he was born in > Obenburg Bavaria. Is that enough to be able to try to locate > something about him in Bavaria? > > > Dear Gail, > > If your information and spelling is correct, the only other thing you > would need is his religion, which I assume was Catholic. > > But how certain are you of the spelling "Obenburg"? I do not find it > in all of Germany. That is critical!!! Could it be Offenberg, 40 > miles east of Regensburg? There are also two Obernburgs and two > Oberburgs in Bavaria. What is your source of the town name? > > Norm > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 7:23 PM > Subject: [BAVARIA] Ludwig or Zapp - Obenburg Bayern > > The grave for my GG-Grandfather was in St. John's Cemetery in Middle > Village, Queens, NY. It indicated that he was born in Obenburg, > Bayern on 7 Marz 1825. I have requested a complete record of the site > and I am waiting for this to arrive in the next several weeks but in > the meantime if I have his name, and the place of birth and the date > of birth, > I am new to the searching of relatives in Germany and know that > records were kept in the churches, but knowing his date and year of > birth and the town, does anyone know where to direct me to write, > e-mail or search for records. > > His wife was Barbara Zapp and I do not know as yet if he was married > prior to or after his arrival in the US...but I am working on that one > :) > > Many thanks in advance, > Gail Jorgensen > > > > > ==== BAVARIA Mailing List ==== > Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html > to unsubscribe > >

I've been following all the letters concerning the Bamberg Archives and have decided to try again asking for help in finding a solution to my "brickwall", I am descended from Elizabeth NIKOL who according to the 1900 census came from Germany in1892. A sister Barbara definitely came through Baltimore in 1888 and one of her children said the father John NIKOL brought both girls and their brother over in 1888. The story goes that he returned home, wanted to bring the rest of the family over but his wife would not come so they stayed in Germany. The hometown was Hofen (with an umlaut) in Oberfranken between Bamberg and Bayreuth. They were Catholic and I believe went to church in Hollfeld. The sister said she was born in Hollfeld. Someone told me there were only 14 houses now in Hoefen and 2 Nikol names still existed. I wrote them several years ago but never received an answer. Now I'd like to start my search again. I did check some Hollfeld church records from Mormon film but couldn't find the names I was searching for (my German script reading is not that good). According to records here, Elizabeth was born in 1872 and died in PA in 1906 I have searched immigration records and found only Barbara in 1888 and her name was spelled Nichol. Can someone help me with how best to proceed? I will be so grateful. Dorothy J. Gard [email protected] Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.

Hi, Gail, <A HREF="http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bavaria/counties.htm">Bavarian counties/Landkreise</A> <A HREF="http://www.bayern.de/HDBG/gemeind/geortw.htm">Bayern towns W</A> <A HREF="http://bavariangenealogy.com/bh/places.html">Bavarian Places</A> <A HREF="http://www.lkan-elkb.de"> Ev-Luth.Church in Bavaria</A> <A HREF="http://www.regierung.oberfranken.bayern.de/index.htm">Oberfranken</A> Here are a few bookmarks for you to check. It may be that your "town" name is really an area, such as Oberpfalz, Oberbayern, Obergranken. Don't assume that all Bavarians are Catholic. Many are Protestant. LaVerne