The first message posted to the list was accidentally sent before I could finish it, so I resent the whole explanation & statement. However, as we all know, nothing ever works out the way we plan it it, so GUESS WHAT???.......... I haven't seen the very explanatory 2nd list posting come through yet. One more try. (and watch everything show up at once) When I was young, my father would say, our name was spelled B-O-T-T-Z, that's black dutch (german). I assumed from that statement that we were german on daddy't side, too. Through the internet, I joined with several cousins to track our BATES and what we could learn of them. They all agreed our BATES to be English (British, which also included the Irish), and disregarded what I told them of my father's comments. The statement I referred to my original partial post was found in a publication sent to me by one of my new found cousins; something he had apparently overlooked. In "Century Review of Maury Co, Tenn, 1807-1907", D.P. Robbins, states............ Thomas BATES is the son of Jesse & Melinda BATES. Melinda is dau of John BATES. All of VA and of German descent. Jesse BATES is son of William BATES, and grandson of James BATES who married Elizabeth TUBB. We have assumed these BATES' were English. The statement allows the reader to believe that ALL of the people listed are of German descent. Mr. Robbins never went on to explain anything. We can find nothing else on this John BATES prior to this listing. There is also no mention of a wife....just he and daughter, Melinda. It is a strange statement as, for Jesse to be of german descent, his father and grandfather would also have to be the same. Incidentally, William BATES' wife was English and Cherokee, and James BATES' wife, Elizabeth TUBB was English (possibly Welch) descent. So, no German there. It would have to be the BATES line or else D. P. Robbins was way off. Hope this gets through. Between my goofs, the listserves problems and my computer having a mind of it's own, there's no telling what goes out of here. However, anyone else out there with Bates ancestors they think might be German? Marlene Bates Johnson [email protected]